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Nabterayl
10-12-2009, 11:14 AM
I have a question about Rhino and Razorback crews in codex chapters. According to Imperial Armour 2, all full space marines are trained to operate the chapter's armored vehicles, and all armored vehicles are crewed by full space marines. Vehicles from the chapter's armory (i.e., Predators, Vindicators, and Whirlwinds) are typically crewed by battle-brothers from the reserve companies, typically tactical marines from the 6th and 7th companies. We also know that Land Speeders are typically crewed by assault marines.

What about the vehicles that belong to battle companies (i.e., Rhinos and Razorbacks)? We know that battle companies typically "own" their transports, and that in many (most?) chapters, transports are permanently assigned to individual squads. But who crews them? Are marines from the reserve companies on permanent loan to the battle companies as transport custodians, kind of like marines from the first company are often on permanent loan as squad sergeants?

MC Tic Tac
10-12-2009, 12:32 PM
IIRC I think they are crewed by Techmarines on loan to the company.

Gotthammer
10-12-2009, 12:38 PM
It also makes no sense when the whole Chapter goes to war. When 1000 marines decend on a planet, do they then have to walk everywhere?

I think it's one of those things GW hopes you don't do the maths on too much, as the 1,000 marines was set in stone very early on, but the structure evolved later to the 100 man company, and the two are basically incompatible at the large scale of Chapter warfare.

From a fluff POV, I have it that each company is a self sustaining unit (so no reserve companies), with its own motor pool and armoury. Each vehicle, be it Rhino, Predator, Speeder or Razorback, has a dedicated crew from the Armoury, under the Armoury Sergeant (my Chronus stand-in). This does mean that each company has around 170 marines, but it makes much more sense.

AirHorse
10-12-2009, 12:57 PM
well from the novels ive read landraiders etc are often piloted by techmarines, but it seems like generally when a squad gets in a rhino someone from that squad drives it where they are going.

Nabterayl
10-12-2009, 12:59 PM
I definitely think this is one of those things that was set in stone before anybody actually thought it through. Imperial Armour makes it pretty clear throughout that the armory doesn't have a manpower pool - the armory can supply the vehicle, but it can't supply the crew. That means that battle companies being self-sufficient is really a gloss - they're self-sufficient as long as everybody's okay with walking, or as long as the squads provide their own drivers (which they can do, since every battle-brother is capable of acting as a driver). Otherwise you need to borrow manpower from a reserve company. More and more the impression I'm getting of a codex chapter is that what you really have are five fighting companies plus another five companies who mainly exist as support arms for the first five.

As a friend of mine pointed out, this doesn't fit our modern concept of self-contained quick reaction forces, but it is very British - specifically, very colonial British, where you had large organizations (e.g., regiments and above) that were almost purely administrative. Most actual fighting forces would consist of a couple companies from this unit, a couple companies from that, and so forth. Not efficient, but very Imperial.

EDIT: I haven't really read any novels, so I'm curious, AirHorse - what chapters were those that have techmarines crewing armory vehicles? I'm sure that this is one of those areas where chapters can differ in their practices but I'd love to know as much as I can.