2000pts, Space Wolves, first attempt...

[EmperorEternalXIX]

I've put a lot of thought into it and have decided that fluff-wise and style-wise, the Space Wolves dex will do a lot more what I want out of my marines than the standard SM dex ever will. Here is my attempt at a list...I am curious to see what other Wolves players think.

HQ: Rune Priest...165
--Runic Armor, Saga of the Warrior Born, Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning/Jaws of the World Wolf

Elites: Wolf Guard x8...389
--4 Terminators w/ Combi Meltas+Power Weapons (in Drop Pod)
--1 Terminator w/ Combi-Melta+Chainfist (in Drop Pod)
--1 Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher (with Long Fang squad)
--1 Power Armor Wolf Guard with 2x Wolf Claws (with Blood Claws and HQ in Rhino)*
--1 Power Armor with Frost Blade (with Wolf Scouts)

Troops: Blood Claws x8...195
--1x Flamer, 1x Power Fist, 1x Plasma Pistol
--1x Wolf Guard with 2x Wolf Claws*

Troops: Grey Hunters x10 in Rhino...210
--2x Flamers, 1x Power Weapon, 1x Wolf Banner

Troops: Grey Hunters x10 in Rhino...210
--2x Flamers, 1x Power Weapon, 1x Wolf Banner

Troops: Grey Hunters x10 in Rhino...215
--2x Melta Guns, 1x Power Weapon, 1x Wolf Banner

Elites: Wolf Scouts...140
--1x Melta Gun, 2 Power Weapons, 5x Melta Bombs
--1x Wolf Guard with Frost Blade

Elites:Lone Wolf...100
--Terminator w/ Power Fist, Storm Shield
--Fenrisian Wolves x2

Fast Attack: Fenrisian Wolves x5...48
--Cyberwolf Upgrade

Fast Attack: Fenrisian Wolves x5...48
--Cyberwolf Upgrade

Heavy Support: Long Fangs...140
--5x Missile Launchers
--1x Wolf Guard Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher*

Heavy Support: Long Fangs...140
--5x Missile Launchers

The plan: The Wolves are going to advance with the Lone Wolf, basically to make a nuisance and pre-charge any targets that are viable for him to hold them. The idea seems strange, but this is basically my popcorn unit -- I feed it to the enemy, and while they are preoccupied the real hitters get to where they need to be. I plan on making a beeline with the Lone Wolf for any walkers or MCs to get his maximum benefits. If needed, in KP games, I will switch him to defense and use the wolves to flank other elements.

Likely they will be covered by my four rhinos of scoring units advancing. Rune Priest + WG + Blood Claws is going to be bringing up the rear, with my Grey Hunters making the main push at the enemy. I press with the Grey Hunters attacking suitable targets and charging weaker enemies, while using the Rune Priest's powers from behind out of the hatch of the Blood Claw's rhino. From afar and against vehicles I will use the lightning power, inflicting annoying strength 7 hits against side armor or weaker troops. Once the midfield is crossed I will switch to Jaws, wiping dangerous models like heavy weapons or MCs. When the time is right this squad will jump out near an objective and camp it, and totally murder any basic troops who show up to claim it. Other elite units will be a bit of a problem but I'm the adventurous type and willing to take the gamble (especially since if they are on foot I can Jaws their ICs or Sergeants for a turn, possibly killing their special CC weapons).

Overhead the Long Fangs will be firing a massive 12 strength 8 krak missiles a turn at anything armored, hoping for good penetration rolls. Anything MEQ on this field is going to be just mauled by this volume of krak missile fire. By spamming the missiles I might even be able to bring down tougher 2+ save monstrous creatures.

Any AV14 vehicles on the field will be struck at by my Terminators in the drop pod on turn 1, who will then switch to an anti-infantry role as needed with their power weapons and wreak havoc in the backfield. The chainfist will make them a credible threat to any vehicles around them as well, meaning that my Long Fangs can focus exclusively on spamming krak missiles at lighter armor.

The terminators will draw a lot of heat, allowing me to outflank the Wolf Scouts and possibly come on from behind. The Scouts and their Frost Blade-toting WG are geared more for hand to hand than anything else, but they are carrying melta bombs and toting a melta gun in case an attack of opportunity presents itself against a vehicle caught offguard that hasn't moved (if you have any doubts of whether the Scouts can outflank with a WG, I suggest visiting theruleslayers.com for a detailed explanation).

Generally this is my plan, and my first attempt at a half decent all-comers list. It has some iffy points, and I think it will be weak against hordes, but I am fairly confident it will annihilate anything MEQ as long as I am careful about where I apply the brunt of the force.

Questions/thoughts/criticisms?

[Jakz]

Just a couple things I see that could be better.


HQ: Rune Priest...165
--Runic Armor, Saga of the Warrior Born, Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning/Jaws of the World Wolf

Saga of the Warrior Born is just okay here. If you want it with the fluff that is fine but it could be better used points elsewhere.




--1 Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher (with Long Fang squad)

A great deal of people are putting these guys into lists and I just cannot agree with it. He is 63 points by himself. So for 2 more points you could have have a Long Fang squad of 3 with 2 MLs or for 12 more points you could have a Razorback with TL Assault Cannons or Lascannons.


--1 Power Armor with Frost Blade (with Wolf Scouts)

The Frost Blade here seems overkill in the scout squad. Most likely they are going to come on and shoot something and get gunned down. Combi-Melta and Power Weapon are 5 points cheaper and provide more options.


Elites:Lone Wolf...100
--Terminator w/ Power Fist, Storm Shield
--Fenrisian Wolves x2

The Terminator Armor here is really not needed. You already have an invulnerable save from the Storm Shield so the points would be better with upgrading the power fist to a Thunder Hammer.

Trimming up some of the points and expanding those Fenresian Wolf Packs to 10 men would be extremely useful as well. At only 5 members each they are going to drop to an easy round of lasgun or bolter fire.

Also at 2k points Wolf Guard with every squad is really almost necessary. They can bring an extra Melta shot (yes I know it is only once but you should be in HtH after one shot. The most important things he brings is the extra power weapon and of course the +1 leadership. That +1 leadership is 11% better chances of passing tests which cover moral and counter-attack.

[Chumbalaya]

HQ: Rune Priest...165
--Runic Armor, Saga of the Warrior Born, Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning/Jaws of the World Wolf

Generally you don't want to risk your RP in combat, so Warrior Born may not be necessary. Powerfists still squish him flat, Runic Armor or no. Consider the powers he has now, sitting him with some GH in a Rhino so he can stay mobile and shooty. If you want to get up close, Murderous Hurricane and the DS/skimmer screw up power would be extremely helpful.


Elites: Wolf Guard x8...389
--4 Terminators w/ Combi Meltas+Power Weapons (in Drop Pod)
--1 Terminator w/ Combi-Melta+Chainfist (in Drop Pod)
--1 Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher (with Long Fang squad)
--1 Power Armor Wolf Guard with 2x Wolf Claws (with Blood Claws and HQ in Rhino)*
--1 Power Armor with Frost Blade (with Wolf Scouts)

Cyclone with the Fangs is a big waste, it's almost as much for another unit. They can't even move and fire. If you want the cyclone, he fits best in a footslogging GH squad (giving them some range, yayz!). In a LF unit, a naked WG works best as a bullet catcher. A combi-melta would be a must on the Scout WG, melta bombs wouldn't hurt either. Your BCs have no high S attacks, a PF or TH would be better.


Troops: Blood Claws x8...195
--1x Flamer, 1x Power Fist, 1x Plasma Pistol
--1x Wolf Guard with 2x Wolf Claws*

No good. BCs shouldn't be in a Rhino since they can't get out and assault. A PF on a model with 1 attack is a waste, as is a plasma pistol on a BS4 chump. These guys need a LRC, otherwise GH are better. WS3 sucks.


Troops: Grey Hunters x10 in Rhino...210
--2x Flamers, 1x Power Weapon, 1x Wolf Banner

Need melta. Ld8 is bad, be careful of morale tests.


Troops: Grey Hunters x10 in Rhino...210
--2x Flamers, 1x Power Weapon, 1x Wolf Banner

As above.


Troops: Grey Hunters x10 in Rhino...215
--2x Melta Guns, 1x Power Weapon, 1x Wolf Banner

Better. The power weapon isn't so useful for its cost, you may just want to keep them cheap and not even bother. 3 PW attacks aren't going to tip the combat in your favor often, only help you lose less.


Elites: Wolf Scouts...140
--1x Melta Gun, 2 Power Weapons, 5x Melta Bombs
--1x Wolf Guard with Frost Blade

Pricey for a suicide unit, especially one not guaranteed to show up when and where you need it.


Elites:Lone Wolf...100
--Terminator w/ Power Fist, Storm Shield
--Fenrisian Wolves x2

Chainfist is a huge benefit here, suck it Dreads! Kinda odd since everything else is mounted pretty much. His job is to go after Dreads and MCs, since everything will be rushing off before he gets there, when he shows up the party's over.


Fast Attack: Fenrisian Wolves x5...48
--Cyberwolf Upgrade

Fast Attack: Fenrisian Wolves x5...48
--Cyberwolf Upgrade

Cyberwolf is pointless, yay majority T. 5 wolves is pointless too, 10 minimum. These guys are perfect for getting after the juicy bits inside freshly cracked open transports, a lot better than BCs anyway.


Heavy Support: Long Fangs...140
--5x Missile Launchers
--1x Wolf Guard Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher*

Lose the WGT, get more Fangs.


Heavy Support: Long Fangs...140
--5x Missile Launchers

Yay.

So 4 Rhinos, none with anything particularly mean in combat, 2 suicide units (1 reliable, 1 not), throwaway wolves, and a single Lone Wolf huffing and puffing after them all. Kinda meh really. If you want a mech army, a LRC w/ BCs or WG, Predators, Speeders, and Dreads would suit you better. If you want a mixed army, more cav and Preds/Speeders would be better.

[EmperorEternalXIX]

All good points. I really want to break out of the paradigm of "The Standard Space Marine List" however...I have no interest in fielding any Death Star units like the land raider/CC doom squad setup most SMs prefer.

The suggestion of using Wolf Guard in each squad actually doesn't interest me, believe it or not. I am trying to keep leadership low to break away from combat often; experimental and probably not good, but with ATSKNF protecting me from sweeps it might work out in a "combat tactics lite" sort of pseudo-tactic (at least, that's the plan). I know it hurts counterattack, but at the same time these guys are already packing 20 attacks instead of 10 so I am feeling like the jump to SWs is probably going to feel a million times better in that regard.

A lot of people don't like the cyclone guy. The nature of the list, I didn't really think he cost that much points. Getting another squad with two missile launchers doesn't really give me much more firepower but it does let me cover more ground. I will consider it and work with the points and see what I have.

I originally wanted the wolf squads to be full 15, and the cyberwolves are there more for the leadership than anything else. I planned on using them for nothing else than to screen the Lone Wolf -- The main reason I gave him terminator armor was to make him a little more resilient. It is probably unnecessary, but I like the idea of AP3 stuff (which there is a lot of at my LGS) still giving him a save. Still experimental, of course. I may consider bringing the wolves into one squad with more models.

I actually don't consider the scouts a suicide unit, even though they are likely to die. The idea is more or less to have something to come in and aid the terminators after they first-turn nuke something. My current CC Scouts in the Space Marines list always bring down something worth their points, and I use them with less men, less armor-ignoring attacks, and without the speeder option. I have a motto...don't doubt the scouts! Plus as odd as it is, I'm hoping that tactically people will be more afraid of the terminators.

I am worried about my low melta count, which is part of why I geared the scouts the way I did. It occurs to me that for roughly the cost of the wolves, I could add a dreadnought or a couple of speeders to buff that. The wolves do seem like they won't add much; I planned on using them to contest things or to get early suicide charges to hold stuff in place for the Lone Wolf and the other units.

The leadership 8 will probably be an issue, but generally I am not worried about it; in all my other SM armies I have always had the problem of passing leadership when it would be better to not pass it, weird as that sounds, so I'm hoping that it will help me out more than hurt me. The GH squad setups are tricky for me...I'm not sure how I want to gear them. I want an all comer list, so I have to definitely play with their weapon configurations and see how they will work out.

The WS3 of the HQ's unit of Blood claws doesn't worry me. I will still hit virtually everything in the game on a 4+, and while they will be getting hit back hard, I expect much of the heat to go onto the Rune Priest. If I ditch his Saga and the two wolf squads that would free up roughly 130 points, maybe allowing me to add a full squad of heavy bolter Long Fangs or a dread. I still consider the BCs ablative scoring wounds; basically I chose them on the basis that they can be scoring, making what is a slightly above average HQ/WG unit combo able to hold objectives against enemies that aren't geared for CC.

Definitely have to tinker with it a bit. Like a lot of my lists, it's based a lot on meta game psychology and tactics...who knows if it'll actually work or not. I think I will need to hit the table top with it and identify the weak spots manually over a few games (though some of the glaring ones are obvious enough).

[Chaosgerbil]

Can you work in someone with saga of the Wolfkin? I 5, Ld 7 wolves are a lot better than the alternative.

[Confuddled]

1) Love the Grey Hunter squads. Seeing as how you’re taking Wolf Standards for them, though, Mark of the Wulfen might actually work better.



2) With regard to attaching Wolf Guard to the Hunters, I can understand wanting to keep Ld low.

On the other, it’s a shame to stop at 8 Wolf Guard when you’d only need two more Wolf Guard to unlock a second Terminator heavy weapon!



3) Say you replace one 10-strong Grey Hunter pack with a 9-strong unit led by a Wolf Guard (so you still have two 10-man Grey Hunter packs), with the 10th Wolf Guard getting a suit of Terminator Armour with a cyclone missile launcher.

You’ve now got the option of:
a) Attaching the second cyclone-equipped Terminator to the second Long Fang squad, OR:

b) Combining both cyclone-equipped Terminators into a single squad that is either deployed via drop pod OR starts the game deployed with their pod coming into empty.

- There will be times when there really isn’t anything worth nuking with a pod full of Terminators toting combi-meltas (if he keeps stuff in reserve, he’s only got a bunch of AV10-12 vehicles anyway, or he’s got an entire army bristling with melta/plasma weapons…)

- At the same time, by deploying on the table, you’ve got the option of either keeping your 2 “spare” Terminators with the squad (for a very respectable, very durable 7-Terminator squad!!l) or detaching a pair of “spare” power-weapon Terminators to lead the Long Fang packs.

- With 2 cyclones, the Terminators are effectively another Long Fang squad, albeit a very well-protected (and very costly!!) one.




Points would probably have to come from scrapping the Fenrisian Wolves.

On the other hand, well, honestly, if he’s wasting shots targeting the Lone Wolf instead of popping Rhinos, you’re coming out ahead, especially since the vast majority of your army (ie pretty much everything) would work best if/when advancing very aggressively.

The alternative would be to just have him hold back and block/draw fire from anyone who might want to bully the Long Fangs.