Leafblower Jr!!! 1000 points IG

[Norseman]

Howdy all,

I just wanted to post this army list, and get your thoughts on it. I call it Leafblower Jr.

I just won a 1000 point tourney on the weekend with this list.

I went 4W - 0L with it and had extremely good results on most of my battles.

The missions were Standard out of the main rule book, a different set mission and setup for each game.

10 Veterans 3 Flamers c/w Chimera Hull HF Turret MLaser
10 Veterans 3 Melta c/w Chimera Hull HF Turret MLaser
1 Manticore
2 Griffon
2 LR Exterminators 3 HB
1 CMD Squad 1 Flamer

First Game vs Marines - Pitched Battle - 5 Objectives
Loss of 3 Veterans in Total. Opponent tabled in 4 turns

Second Game vs Eldar - Spearhead - 2 Objectives
Loss of 8 Veterans in total. Opponent tabled in 4 turns

Third Game vs Crimson fists marines ( My hardest battle) - Dawn of War - Kill Points
Loss of 2 Chimeras - All Infantry. Tabled Opponent 5 turns

Fourth Game vs Deathwing - Pitched Battle - 2 Objectives
Loss of All Infantry & 1 Chimera. Tabled Opponent 5 Turns


I would have to give best in list to the Griffons. They were the pieces that did the best consistently. They removed the Troops holding objectives. However the Manticore would have to take second. I never really needed it to fire more than 4 times. It was the only thing other than the 3 melta that was able to pop any armored vehicles. The long range strength 10 REALLY makes the difference.

[sangrail777]

So would you say that your opponents consistently failed to target priority your heavy support elements?

[LordofDiscipline]

well played man, did you find that the other armies didn't tend to have enough Anti armor? im also guessing you screened all the indirect weaponry at least partially with the LREs?

[Chumbalaya]

Grats on the W, just a couple questions.

It's a bit light on Troops, how did that work out? Exterminators are a pricier Hydra, did you mean the Executioner?

What did the other armies comprise? What were the scenarios like? Any soft scoring to influence results?

[Norseman]

I parked the indirects in the rear. Most of the tables had LOS Blocking terrain. if it didn't I tried parking my LRuss in front of them to give them a cover save. In the four games they only got hit twice and both time only got a stun result.

I did find that even though it was only 1000 points there was some armor killing in every opponent. First opponent had 2 Lascannons that i targeted early on. Then all i had to worry about was the Termies w/ Thunder Hammers. Second opponent had a fire prism, falcon, Wraithlord and an Avatar. I think i got lucky on this one. i kept backing up and only was hit twice by the bright lances before i silenced them. He rolled under my LR front armor each time. The third opponent had a Vind, Asscan Dred and Drop pod Sternguard with combi melta. The Sternguard took 3 turns of almost my entire army firing on them to finally kill them all. Forth opponent had a Land Raider with Th SS Termies but no ranged armor killing. I think this really hurt him and illustrates that if you go all one way you leave yourself open to some one exploiting your weakness.

I should also mention that I designed this army to be a first turn alpha striker. First two rounds I won first turn and then had the initiative stolen. Third opponent had a designed second turn army and chose not to roll for stealing the initiative. Forth game opponent won first turn and i did not steal initiative. So I only got first turn once, and my opponent had nothing on the table worth shooting at.

LR Exterminator has the Str7 Ap4 Heavy 4 Autocannon and 1 Hull HB and 2 Sponson HB is 170points. i actually think this is the best LR Option. The torrent of fire is amazing for Termie killing.

As for my strategy. I usually deployed my LR forward and then backed them up 6" a turn.

I did find that my troops were VERY easily killed. I lost them in 2 of the 4 games. I did find that I NEEDED them to kill stuff but just didn't have the ability to stick around. If I needed them to hold objectives I found i was weakened significantly. However if you are able to wipe the enemy off the board you do not NEED to hold objectives.

The only army that I found I was incapable of countering was Nidzilla. I play tested this army quite a few times before the tourney, other IG, Necron, and Tau all met similar fates.

[DarkLink]

How well do you think you would have done againse a 2 LR list (with lascannons)? That's what I usually play in 1000pt games, and looking at your list I think it would be a fun and challenging game for both of us (you don't have a lot of anti AV14 and I don't have a lot of troops to kill you with).

[Norseman]

How well do you think you would have done againse a 2 LR list (with lascannons)? That's what I usually play in 1000pt games, and looking at your list I think it would be a fun and challenging game for both of us (you don't have a lot of anti AV14 and I don't have a lot of troops to kill you with).

I find Landraiders too expensive for 1000point games. The Landraider pays it's points for being survivable unfortunately it doesn't have enough killing power for it's cost.

The Manticore is a Armor killer, and with the size of the Landraider model I can still hit the model with a bit of a deviation. I roll 2d6 and take the highest. I also have a suicide Veteran squad with 3 Meltas to deal with the Armor. I think the 2 Landraiders would have left you short on total killing power.

However if I didn't manage to kill your Land raiders I would have had to run away with everything until I did kill them.

I think my weaknesses would be any army that could do a HW gun line and NidZilla. Anything is possible any any army can beat another with the right general. But I am considering all other things being equal.

[DarkLink]

My list is a tough list to play with. It does pack a deceptive amount of firepower in it, though. I once played a game against an ork horde with 101 models against my 13, and won narrowly. That was a fun game.

I usually take
Brother Captain w/ Psycannon
2x6 Grey Knights w/ 2 Incinerators
2x LR's (Godhammer versions)


You have the Medusa for ranged AT, and the melta Vets as well. My priority target would be the Medusa, second target would be the Chimera holding the melta Vets, and I'd pretty much ignore the rest of you army until I couldn't do so anymore.

It'd be fun to see if I could get lucky with my Brother Captain and deepstrike him in to hit the Medusa's side or rear armor. I've never had a good oportunity to do that before, but probably would against your list.

[nathan.cook69]

Norsemen,

Just wanted to add my two cents on your list and your play style.

The list is a strong one, very strong in fact for the extremely junior level of players at the tournament. Taking the Ard Boys list and cutting it down to 1000pts and then playing it in a beginner tournament isn’t' something that you should be proud of. Overall though, I don't think the list was the real problem...

The real problem was how you played... While winning can be a fun and enjoyable thing, I don't see how you can be happy with how things went. You steamrolled your opponents by bullying them and going at such a frenzied pace that nobody was able to understand what it was you were doing.

You were playing against opponents who had very limited experience (most had played a handful of games). You are a "veteran" player and should have taken the time to explain what it was you were doing. This is both courteous and part of the rules.

You can not just make a whole bunch of dice rolls, and then tell your opponents that they need to make saves. You need to explain what it is you are doing. You were fortunate that nobody called you on it at the time. Due to your bullying, people felt that they just might as well give up. In the final game your opponent did just give up. Not because he was out played, just because you were doing things without explaining them and were refusing to slow down. Not cool. Not cool at all.

Hopefully next tournament you will improve your game play and smarten up a little bit. Be courteous and perhaps both you and your opponents will enjoy themselves. This isn't the big leagues. We are talking about local friendly play. No need to slit people's throats and step on them. Be a good sport and try to ensure everyone has a good time.

Everyone had a great time at the tournament, but the common complaint was your game play. People that didn't even play against you were complaining that you weren't playing fair. Strange.

Hope you take this as constructive criticism and improve. I realize it comes across as a very direct attack against you, but it really is intended to highlight an issue that can hopefully be resolved.

[The Green Git]

You were playing against opponents who had very limited experience (most had played a handful of games). You are a "veteran" player and should have taken the time to explain what it was you were doing. This is both courteous and part of the rules.

You can not just make a whole bunch of dice rolls, and then tell your opponents that they need to make saves. You need to explain what it is you are doing. You were fortunate that nobody called you on it at the time. Due to your bullying, people felt that they just might as well give up. In the final game your opponent did just give up. Not because he was out played, just because you were doing things without explaining them and were refusing to slow down. Not cool. Not cool at all.

I'm going to have to agree that IF what nathan is relating here is how it went down, you should consider doing a better job of interacting with your opponents. At 1000 points you shouldn't be so pressed for time that you have to rush things.

It's *always* good form to announce what you are rolling dice for BEFORE you roll them.
It's *always* good form to allow your opponent to see your dice results before picking them up.
It's *always* good form to consider both players should have fun during the game.

My .02.

[drummerholt1234]

It's *always* good form to announce what you are rolling dice for BEFORE you roll them.
It's *always* good form to allow your opponent to see your dice results before picking them up.
It's *always* good form to consider both players should have fun during the game.

My .02.

PLus what Nathan cook said....

In a friendly pick up game I would agree. In a tournament not so much....

I think that nathan.cook69 (haha funny name... not really) is over exaggerating. He probably was just "play-fast" like vets do.

All 3 things that dreen git said are true, but in a tournament players should be more aware of what is happening in the game and not have be told every little thing that is going on. I agree that the opponent should see the dice rolls but that doesn't mean examine the hits and misses for mins... And as far as the fun factor. If you want pure fun play pick up if you wanna play to win play in a tournament.

As far as the list goes I think that it is good. I don't see how you would have trouble with nidzilla? Care to explain you have enough armour to make them unable to bust them all.

[Aldramelech]

Im sorry but I heartily disagree!

Just because you are playing in a tournament does not give you the right to behave like a dick!

This is a hobby and its supposed to be fun, Tournaments are supposed to be fun, Fun is the whole bloody point of everything we do!

Why would you waste time doing something in your precious spare time (and mine is very precious) if there is no fun?

Its attitudes such as this that turn off experienced gamers like myself from the whole tournament scene.

I think that the Green Gits rules are especially important in a tournament setting. If this was indeed the way this person behaved at a tournament that was directed at new players he may well have discouraged some of those new players from going to any others and maybe even give up the hobby totally!

In my opinion hardcore tournament attitudes such as this can only weaken the hobby and people should consider this when playing at tournaments!

[Rusty Nail]

For once I 100% agree with Aldramelech, all this with the proviso that as Green Git said it went down as stated

[Snarf]

well done. I have to ask... Where did u get your 2 Griffon's from? If you made them can you post a pic?

[drummerholt1234]

Im sorry but I heartily disagree!

Just because you are playing in a tournament does not give you the right to behave like a dick!

This is a hobby and its supposed to be fun, Tournaments are supposed to be fun, Fun is the whole bloody point of everything we do!

Why would you waste time doing something in your precious spare time (and mine is very precious) if there is no fun?

Its attitudes such as this that turn off experienced gamers like myself from the whole tournament scene.

I think that the Green Gits rules are especially important in a tournament setting. If this was indeed the way this person behaved at a tournament that was directed at new players he may well have discouraged some of those new players from going to any others and maybe even give up the hobby totally!

In my opinion hardcore tournament attitudes such as this can only weaken the hobby and people should consider this when playing at tournaments!

Yes the hobby is suppost to be fun but tournaments are suppose to be compeitive (hence the problem with the hobby... people can not realize the two and you get new players going to hardcore tournaments and get rolled over and wondering why)! How does playing at a quick pace make him a dick? It just make him an experienced player that can do that and if that gives him an advantage why not take it.

IMHO a new player should not go to a tournament unless he has a feel for that type of environment hence faster play, stronger list, and greater tactics. Look at other games that have competitive tournements: magic, halo, and starcraft to name a few. Why does magic work other than it huge financial backing it has a winner take all environment. The top halo tournaments are so successful because they only let the best players in. Starcraft is one of the most successful games to ever come out. Why? Because the company has made strides to balance the games as much as possible and they listen to the community. Yeah GW balance the game... you'll sell more stuff.

My opinion is that their should be a time for fun in the hobby as well as a hardcore competitive nature as well.

Back to the topic at hand though...

[Aldramelech]

Yes the hobby is suppost to be fun but tournaments are suppose to be compeitive (hence the problem with the hobby... people can not realize the two and you get new players going to hardcore tournaments and get rolled over and wondering why)! How does playing at a quick pace make him a dick? It just make him an experienced player that can do that and if that gives him an advantage why not take it.

IMHO a new player should not go to a tournament unless he has a feel for that type of environment hence faster play, stronger list, and greater tactics. Look at other games that have competitive tournements: magic, halo, and starcraft to name a few. Why does magic work other than it huge financial backing it has a winner take all environment. The top halo tournaments are so successful because they only let the best players in. Starcraft is one of the most successful games to ever come out. Why? Because the company has made strides to balance the games as much as possible and they listen to the community. Yeah GW balance the game... you'll sell more stuff.

My opinion is that their should be a time for fun in the hobby as well as a hardcore competitive nature as well.

Back to the topic at hand though...

He's behaving like a dick because hes an experienced player who's playing at a tournament for new players, therefore not making allowances and gaining an unfair advantage. Anyone who wants to win a tournament in those circumstances is a big fat rubbery one!

And who the hell said that fun and competitive are mutually exclusive? Its a game, its competitive by its very nature, but its still supposed to be fun.

But leaving all that aside there are still basic conventions to be observed in any competitive environment, and I happen to think that Green Git sums those up rather well. Do you see tennis players at grand slam tournaments serving the ball before their opponent is ready? Do you see football players at the world cup taking a penalty kick before the goal keeper is ready? No, because convention says that its polite not too.

Your bloody tournaments could be double the size, the prizes even bigger, the hobby even stronger if it wasn't for precisely this sort of behavior. Jog on sunshine. :mad:

[The Green Git]

How does playing at a quick pace make him a dick? It just make him an experienced player that can do that and if that gives him an advantage why not take it.

Playing at a fast doesn't make him a dick, but rolling for actions he didn't declare before rolling the dice and picking up dice before he lets his opponent look at them sure place him in that general neighborhood.

Fact of the matter is if you don't announce what you are rolling the dice for it's going to be pretty tough knowing what you are looking at anyway. If I don't tell you what unit is shooting at what target before I roll the dice what's to keep a less than scrupulous player from changing his mind if his dice come up badly? Nothing, that's what.

It's a tournament so sure, play fast. Just remember your opponent can't read your mind but God gave you both a mouth and ears. Use them.

[drummerholt1234]

Playing at a fast doesn't make him a dick, but rolling for actions he didn't declare before rolling the dice and picking up dice before he lets his opponent look at them sure place him in that general neighborhood.

Fact of the matter is if you don't announce what you are rolling the dice for it's going to be pretty tough knowing what you are looking at anyway. If I don't tell you what unit is shooting at what target before I roll the dice what's to keep a less than scrupulous player from changing his mind if his dice come up badly? Nothing, that's what.

It's a tournament so sure, play fast. Just remember your opponent can't read your mind but God gave you both a mouth and ears. Use them.

I agree with this but what I'm saying is that some vet players can just know what is happening without spending a min pointing out each move. Ya know what I'm saying? I agree that you have a to declare what you are doing thou. It's like in magic, the best players know the cost of the cards being played and don't have to count mana each time a card is played and can tell what mana should be taped ect... It like rolling after a target has been selected. Players should know if they need 3+ or a 4+ and not have to go ok I need a 3+ ect... and should be able to roll pick up the misses, give the opponent a quick sec to chech over the dice and point out any additional misses and then go onto the next roll. Does that make more sense then my previous statement? I'm really not trying to defend being a dick by not declaring targets ect...

[The Green Git]

Players should know if they need 3+ or a 4+ and not have to go ok I need a 3+ ect... and should be able to roll pick up the misses, give the opponent a quick sec to chech over the dice and point out any additional misses and then go onto the next roll. Does that make more sense then my previous statement? I'm really not trying to defend being a dick by not declaring targets ect...

Well sure... there's no reason to state the obvious ad nauseum. I *know* your Space Marines hit on 3's and wound my Orks on 4's. It's just good form to declare "This Tac squad is shooting that Boyz mob, I got 16 Rapid Fire Bolters and a Frag Missile" before you start slinging dice. It only takes a second.

It's not fast play that makes one a jerk... it's staring at the table like an autistic Savant while you move your models around and grunting "ten wounds" after you throw a handful of dice a couple times without uttering a word. Hell I've played against deaf people that were better communicators than that.

What some people seem to miss in all this is there are two people playing this game... and it takes a couple hours to play it. Please do me the courtesy of looking me in the eye once in a while, exchanging pleasantries before and during the game and for goodness sake tell me what the hell you are throwing dice for BEFORE you throw them. Letting me look at the results before you snatch them up is expected too.

[drummerholt1234]

Well sure... there's no reason to state the obvious ad nauseum. I *know* your Space Marines hit on 3's and wound my Orks on 4's. It's just good form to declare "This Tac squad is shooting that Boyz mob, I got 16 Rapid Fire Bolters and a Frag Missile" before you start slinging dice. It only takes a second.

It's not fast play that makes one a jerk... it's staring at the table like an autistic Savant while you move your models around and grunting "ten wounds" after you throw a handful of dice a couple times without uttering a word. Hell I've played against deaf people that were better communicators than that.

What some people seem to miss in all this is there are two people playing this game... and it takes a couple hours to play it. Please do me the courtesy of looking me in the eye once in a while, exchanging pleasantries before and during the game and for goodness sake tell me what the hell you are throwing dice for BEFORE you throw them. Letting me look at the results before you snatch them up is expected too.

This I do agree with other than the autistic comment...

[Norseman]

Norsemen,

Just wanted to add my two cents on your list and your play style.

The list is a strong one, very strong in fact for the extremely junior level of players at the tournament. Taking the Ard Boys list and cutting it down to 1000pts and then playing it in a beginner tournament isn’t' something that you should be proud of. Overall though, I don't think the list was the real problem...

The real problem was how you played... While winning can be a fun and enjoyable thing, I don't see how you can be happy with how things went. You steamrolled your opponents by bullying them and going at such a frenzied pace that nobody was able to understand what it was you were doing.

You were playing against opponents who had very limited experience (most had played a handful of games). You are a "veteran" player and should have taken the time to explain what it was you were doing. This is both courteous and part of the rules.

You can not just make a whole bunch of dice rolls, and then tell your opponents that they need to make saves. You need to explain what it is you are doing. You were fortunate that nobody called you on it at the time. Due to your bullying, people felt that they just might as well give up. In the final game your opponent did just give up. Not because he was out played, just because you were doing things without explaining them and were refusing to slow down. Not cool. Not cool at all.

Hopefully next tournament you will improve your game play and smarten up a little bit. Be courteous and perhaps both you and your opponents will enjoy themselves. This isn't the big leagues. We are talking about local friendly play. No need to slit people's throats and step on them. Be a good sport and try to ensure everyone has a good time.

Everyone had a great time at the tournament, but the common complaint was your game play. People that didn't even play against you were complaining that you weren't playing fair. Strange.

Hope you take this as constructive criticism and improve. I realize it comes across as a very direct attack against you, but it really is intended to highlight an issue that can hopefully be resolved.

Wow...

This is a surprise, especially here.

I will have to say that I am guilty of a few of the charges but really only in my last game, however I would like to explain the situation a little better, and go through your accusations.

Firstly the accusations of my list being to extreme for a "beginner tournament". There was some very good veteran players at that tournament along with maybe 8 newer players. I was not there to compete vs the newbies I was there to play the vets...and truly after the first round that is all I played. I knew I would be facing the vets because of the Swiss pairing system.

Secondly my fast play style. In my first three games that were played in the standard allotted time of the tournament I played quite slow. I had no complaints from my opponents. In the first round I even went into detail for the newer player of exactly what was happening. Why I was making the choice to shoot at what unit so he could learn some of the strategy.

The only issue was with the last "Tie breaker 4th round" that I faced an army that before the game my opponent said "There is no way I can win this game with my army." He had given up BEFORE the game started.

When I rolled I always stated what was firing at what. I then rolled, then I stated "for wounds" then rolled.

It is not my fault that my opponent was distracted by the rest of the tournament watching. He did complain once during the game that he didn't know what was going on and that I was playing too fast. So I slowed it down. I asked after wards, many people that were watching he game... "Did I do anything wrong. Did I not explain fully what I was doing?" Everyone said that I behaved properly and explained everything. The guy just wasn't paying proper attention."

I do have to admit that I was in a rush to get the final round over I was supposed to be somewhere shortly after the last game, but figured that if I didn't mess around I could complete the game and get where I needed to be in time. Which I did.

My opponent was pissed that his EXTREME army composition just couldn't handle my extreme army composition. He was not a newbie he was a very good, veteran player, that BTW almost beat me in the game, and if I would have missed one lucky shot, I would have lost.

BTW he played
LR Redeemer
Lysander
5 TH/SS Termies
5 TH/SS Termies
5 Sniper scouts
5 Sniper scouts

If you have a problem with me..tell me in person. Don't bring it up on a public hobby forum, and try and embarrass me in front of strangers that have no idea of what really happened, and you call me for bad form.

The thread was to discuss the army list, it's strengths and weaknesses, not my play style.

[Snarf]

Well said. I always belived there was two sides to the story.

[Fist]

Hello. Just wanted to chime in as someone (Rory) who was at the tournament. I was suprised to find such a heated debate about a tournament that took place in our little city.

First off, I don't think that the reply, in question, to Norseman's post was very polite or completely accurate. I did not have an opportunity to play against Norseman, but I do think he generally is a considerate player. While at times he does go a little fast and can be overbearing to "weaker" players, I don't think it is his intention. Its just his playing style. People will have to get used to it.

The tournament was a good time and hopefully the coming ones will be just as entertaining. The more tournaments we have the more experienced the players will get and the higher the competition levels will be.

Congrats on the win Norseman. Hope to face you in the coming 1500pts tournament in December.

Fist

[Norseman]

I was suprised to find such a heated debate about a tournament that took place in our little city.


In total agreement there Fist. Totally mind blowing isn't it.

I was just innocently checking some of the posts critiquing my army list and then got blasted both barrels by someone that seems that they didn't like me to much. I can't believe that they actually identified me from my army list.

I knew Thunder Bay was a Warhammer hotspot but, i didn't think it to be that hot. LOL

I asked around and no one knows a Nathan Cook. It must be a alias.

I am looking forward to the next tournament as well. I think I will be playing my Deamon hunters.

[MarshalAdamar]

I would have to agree with those who have stated that a tournament is not where new players should try and learn how to play the game, you don't enter yourself in the world series of poker because you think that learning how to play poker would be great fun.

You better know how to play before you get there.

That being said you should certainly be nice and explain things as you go along. However the games are timed and I don’t have time to wait around for 35 minutes while Corporal Noob moves his units, then moves them back, and then consults the codex to find out what his units do. I don’t want a draw because we only got two rounds of the game in.

So be polite, then politely kill your noob and spend the extra 40 minutes explaining and helping him prep for his next game.

Remember Indiana Jones and the last Crusade? Indy stole the cross of Coronado and the sheriff shows up and takes it away. Indy face to face with (well his stunt double, but I digress) the bag guy say “You lost today kid. But you don’t have to like it.”

That’s the way to handle it. Beat them, (if you can) but be helpful, explain what they did right, what they did wrong help them prep and tell them “You lost today kid. But you don’t have to like it.”

[Norseman]

Remember Indiana Jones and the last Crusade? Indy stole the cross of Coronado and the sheriff shows up and takes it away. Indy face to face with (well his stunt double, but I digress) the bag guy say “You lost today kid. But you don’t have to like it.”

That’s the way to handle it. Beat them, (if you can) but be helpful, explain what they did right, what they did wrong help them prep and tell them “You lost today kid. But you don’t have to like it.”

Well said!!!

[Fist]

A quick search (Google) of Nathan Cook reveals that he is a now deceased small time American actor. Weird name to take as an alias. Oh well...

Daemonhunter's eh? Perhaps I will bring my terrible (as in bad) all Tzeentch Daemon army. Those incinerators would really hurt!

[Darkwynn]

Norse,

How did your LR and Griffins work out for you?

When i made the list I tried to stay away from AV 14 and just mass up on AV 12 all through out the list to take the advantage away from the melta meta game and actually put a increase benefit to opponents who use lascannons ( who is going to pay 40 points for a lascannon these days?)

This would just be me and my play style but I would have dropped the russ and took the medusa and either moved the griffons out for hydra's and see if i Could fit another chimera in there.

though in a 1000 points and as many vehicles as you can get in a IG list , I think you would be able to demolish a lot of people with it.

[Norseman]

The Armor 14 actually worked out well. They only took about 2-3 hits the entire tournament.

I actually did want to take some Hydras.. Unfortunately my FW order did not show up in time for the tournament.

3 Hydras and an extra chimera with vets proabably would have been a good substitute for the 2 Russ. Would have given me a little more survivability of my objective holding squads.

However the LR did do ALOT of killing. It was the 4 TL Autocannons and the 9 HB shots per tank that achieved the torrent of fire that I was looking to accomplish with this list.

The griffons also preformed well. The Accurate rule almost guarantees that you are going to hit or at least get close to what you want to hit. The were devastating vs the eldar and SM scouts.