View Full Version : Rip my list apart! ('Ard Boyz SemiFinals)
08-01-2009, 12:14 AM
Dreadnought 2xCCW, Heavy Flamer
Terminators(3) 3x Combi-Melta, MoS, LR Transport
CSM (10) 2x Melta,Rhino
CSM (10) 2x Melta,Rhino
Plague Marines 2x Melta,Rhino
Bikers(3) 2x Melta
08-01-2009, 12:53 AM
Thats a relativly good list,, but-
1- Dreadnoughts are quite unreliable, and there are better things you could fill up those elite choices with, unless you are going to use them for a very specific purpose, which they might not manage because they go into crazed. The only useful thing they could be used for is drawing fire.
2- the lash Sorceror is very good, especially if you brought them into the path of your Bezerkers. Abaddon is also excellent, but at a massive point cost. Sometimes, a cheaper HQ choice is better, especially with the likes of lucius and huron about.
3- i love terminators and field 30 of them in my Chaos space marine army. Even 3 is enough to cause damage, ad with combi-meltas they can take on pretty much anything.
4-Khorne bezerkers in a Rhino is a great choice. The Rhinos go across, full pelt, then after 2 turns, the bezerkers leap out and massacre evrything. The plague marines are also a good choice, resisting basically anything that is thrown aganst them. They could be well used taking a heavily contested objective.
5- Im not fond of Bikers, they dont really have any purpose for me. I dont really like Raptors either. I do like Spawn, but they dont really count and its probably just because i like the models. I still think, overal, you would get more use out of Raptors then you would bikers, due to the fact that they are both as mobile, but raptors are cheaper with more options and, if given the Mark of Khorne, become a bit like flying bezerkers!
6- Defilers are amazing, but also a target for heavy fire. It may be worth getting something big in to draw away fire from them, and actually, that may be where the Dreadnoughts come in useful.
7- Obliterators. Amazing things, but expensive (both in getting them and fielding them!)Its worth coming up with a definite plan for them before fielding them, becasue you cant really afford to waste the Obliterators, partly because if their cost, but partiaclly because they're so good.
There you go.How'd I do?
08-01-2009, 03:05 AM
The trouble with criticising peoples list is that a lot depends on your playing style. But 2 points, Dreadnoughts can be quite unpredictable and I've found bikers to be fairly expensive for what they are.
08-01-2009, 02:50 PM
Thanks for the replies guys, and it echoes my feeling on the bikes. I think the extra 119pts for two extra meltas isnt worth it.
08-01-2009, 10:49 PM
It doesn't look very good.
Single Land Raider is going to get lit up real quick.
3 Terminators don't scare anybody.
Abaddon costs as much as a Land Raider. Which would you rather have? Once his ride is popped he's walking, and useless.
You have no real threat at range beyond 2 Oblits, the LR (will it be moving forward to unleash the awesomeness of 4 Terminators or staying back to pummel the enemy with 2 almight army-destroying lascannons?) and a pair of Battle Cannons. Nothing in that list stops Land Raiders.
Plague Marines, CSM, and Bikes do bring a good amount of melta, but since they and the Oblits and LR are the only real threats on the table they will be targetted quickly.
Berzerkers in Rhinos are very easy to respond to since they have to sit around for a turn before charging.
Dreads are going to run around and do a fat lot of nothing.
I think you should figure out what you want to do with this list. As is, it has good elements, but a little bit of everything mixed up in a way that they don't help each other out.
08-01-2009, 11:02 PM
I think this list needs less Melta, and more nilla CSM!
Wait, was that right...
08-02-2009, 04:29 AM
Maybe you could replace your bikes with more terminators to put in your Land Raider, and swap Abaddon for someone else.
08-02-2009, 11:31 AM
Perhaps I should explain the general idea, especially after my first real criticism. The dreadnoughts are ablative wounds for the defilers, all fleet/run as a default as an armored spearhead with the LR behind it. Termies are deepstriking or riding, depending on the army I'm fighting.
Thanks for the criticism, and remember WHY do you think its bad? A slam on something in the list without an explanation as to why its a bad idea does nothing for me.
08-02-2009, 11:42 AM
Drop Abaddon for Lucius. He's a Lash Sorc that is a fiend in CC. He also inflicts damage when he takes it. I'd get more termies. I also like me some possessed with the mark of Tzeentch. They ar a force to be reckoned with...
08-02-2009, 12:02 PM
I found that the whole Dread/Defiler concept horribly flawed when I tried it. Dreads must be deployed aggressively, in order to avoid Friendly Frenzy. Defilers get ******'d in CC with Dreads. Means that they take all the fire, and get neutralised too easily by Melta fire to be Win.
I can give more detail if that isn't succinct enough.
08-02-2009, 12:29 PM
Hi MUMBLES -- it looks like a tough list, but you are depending pretty heavily on one tactic. With a few changes, you could have a lot more flexibility (which would give you more options).
1. Abaddon is a brute, but most of the Chaos special characters will be just as effective at killing everyone they can reach. Even at 2500pts, I have a hard time taking him and would rather save 100pts to take Lucius, Kharn or Huron.
2. I'm not sure how you are going to use the Lash Sorceror. Stuff him in a Rhino? I'm just not sure how useful he's going to be.
3. I'm in the "I don't like Chaos Dreadnoughts" camp. They are just too unreliable for a big game, although I think the all-walker list might be fun (just not at Ard Boyz). I'd rather see those points spend on Terminators and Chaos Icons.
4. Why no Skull Champion for the Khorne Berzerkers? I think you could use a Power Weapon in these units.
5. At 2500pts, I'd definitely have Aspiriting Champions with Power Fists in those Rhinos.
6. The bikes seem a bit out of place (and pretty easy kill points for your opponent). Maybe if you talked about how you used them, it would help.
Let us know what you settle on and how you do in the next round! Good luck!
08-02-2009, 12:36 PM
I think a Fist is more valuable in Zerks. They can already torrent most units that aren't T5+.
08-02-2009, 02:52 PM
If you have a line of LR behind Defiler behind Dreads then it isn't hitting combat any time soon.
Teleporting termies are extremely easy to pick off as they come in, especially since you have so few. A couple combi-weapons aren't going to totally shift the game.
Abby is slow and needs his LR. If he teleports, he will die, or at least get avoided. Problem is, that LR is your only AV14 and real threat at range, so it will draw tons of fire. The Dread/Defiler mob is going to have to cross the board to be effective, and even then AV12/13 isn't too hard to pop.
PF on the Zerks is a must, the normal crazies munch everything else and you need insurance against enemy Dreads.
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