Semi Competitive Ultramarine Army 2000pts

[Ghoulio]

This is what I have so far. This list is trying to be some what themed (Sternguard = Tyranid Hunters, Cassius) but at the same time I want it to be somewhat competitive as I plan to take it to Tournaments. I have already finished the Tyranid side of this (and have a log of it in the painting section) and I am looking to start the next project. Right now its a toss up between this Ultramarine army and the Khorne Bezerker army I posted about a week ago. All comments are mucho appreciated :)

HQ
Lysander (by rules only, will convert to Ultramarine :P )
Cassius

Elites
Dread w/ Multi Melta and heavy flamer in a drop pod

9 Sternguard + Sergent w/ Powerfist and Combi Melta
Drop Pod w/ Locator Beacon

5 TH/SS Termies

Troops
9 Tactical Marines w/ Flamer + Sergent w/ Power Fist w/ Combi Flamer
Drop Pod w/ Locator Beacon

9 Tactical Marines w/ Melta and Multi Melta + Sergent w/ Power Fist w/ Combi Melta
Rhino

9 Tactical Marines w/ Melta and Multi Melta + Sergent w/ Power Fist w/ Combi Melta
Rhino

Fast Attack
2 Individual Land Speeders w/ Multi Meltas/Heavy Flamers

Heavy Support
Predator w/ Auto Cannon, 2x Las Cannons

Main idea is to have Lysander go with the Sternguard in the drop pod for bolter drill and Cassius go with the Tact Squad in the drop pod for 3 flamers when they land. As long as the Sternguards drop pod is still alive (I mean really...who shots at drop pods :P ) then Lysander can hopefully join up with the Assault Termies when they land.

Now, the the first question is: Power Fists in Tactical squads...are they worth it?

I figure if I drop all the power firsts and the combi meltas in the 2 tact squads I can do one of two things
A) Get a 3rd Land Speeder AND another Assault Terminator
or
B) Geither either a Vindicator or a second Predator

The second question is: Is Lysander a better choice then Kantor?
Bolter drill is awesome for that unit and Lysander is a freaking beast. Kantor on the other hand actually makes it so when the DS squads get stuck in they wont be totally hopeless (3 attacks per sternguard is decent), as well as making sternguard scoring...and is 25pts cheaper :)

[DarkLink]

Powerfists are absolutely worth it.

Lysander with Assault Terminators are more effective coming out of a Land Raider, though they are tough enough to deepstrike in and take any enemy shooting. Lysander is way more awesomer than Kantor, too.

[Chumbalaya]

If you swap combat tactics for stubborn, powerfists become necessary since you'll always get bogged down in combat.

I like Lysander w/ Sternguard, but they could use some more combi-meltas and maybe a combi-flamer or two. Flexibility is key with them, their bolters can do anything but pop vehicles, so combi-meltas are the obvious pick.

Tacs should go multi-melta, flamer, combi. Free weapons and a flexible load out.

Not a fan of the teleporting Termies really, they need a LR to ride in. In this sort of fun list, Vanguard would be an interesting pick (and quite fitting thematically). 5-6 models, 1 storm shield, 2 single LCs, Relic Blade. Should surprise some people and it fits in with the Tyrannic war Veterans.

[Ghoulio]

Not a fan of the teleporting Termies really, they need a LR to ride in. In this sort of fun list, Vanguard would be an interesting pick (and quite fitting thematically). 5-6 models, 1 storm shield, 2 single LCs, Relic Blade. Should surprise some people and it fits in with the Tyrannic war Veterans.

The idea of Vanguard Vets in the army never really crossed my mind. I thought it was a really cool idea until I saw just how many points per model they are. 6 guys with a Relic Blade and 2 LCs costs 250pts. That is crazy for 6 x 3+ armor saves. A 10 man assault squad is 235pts with 2 flamers and a Power Fist. The only thing is I just cant figure out what else I would put in its spot.

So right now I have between 200-250pts to spend. Without that Vanguard unit or the terminators I dont really have any hand to hand in this army. I am really happy with the layout above, I just need something to compliment it. Things I was thinking of:

- Adding a second Pred armed same as the first and a vindicator. With the left-over points I could add a couple more combi meltas in with the sternguard
- I could just say screw it and get the Vanguard. Being able to assault on the turn they come down is pretty sweet...I just dont think they are worth between 30-45pts a model
- Landraider...with nothing to go in it
- Another Tactical Squad in a razor back and maybe another Land Speeder

Its been so long since I have made a marine army lol. My tendancy is to always go for as much stuff as possible and completely forgo any sort of upgrades, so its hard for me to gauge if high priced units like Vanguard are actually worth it :)

[Chumbalaya]

Vanguard Vets are probably one of the points-sinkiest units in the Codex. I wouldn't normally take them, but in a thematic list like this they could offer up some good conversion potentials and just look cool.

Otherwise, you could drop Lysander to pick up a LRC for those Termies. You lose stubborn and bolter drill, but they aren't totally necessary. Another Dread and Pred wouldn't be out of place either.

[Ming]

We played a game recently with Vanguard kitted with jump packs and every one with a power weapon. They ate first a sternguard squad, then a tactical squad, then almost another tactical squad. You need the full PW and pack loadout to make them really amazing. They got into cc turn 2 and were spent on turn 5. Fighting against other marines....