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j-orge-287
10-27-2009, 08:39 AM
Just read the White Dwarf battle report-4000pts of skaven vs a very capable 3500pts of dwarves. Victory condition was to capture the tower. Dwarves won with only 7.5 units out of 13 left! Ratmen lookin' scary due to frickin codex creep.:eek::eek::eek: (damn it)

Vindur
10-27-2009, 08:44 AM
Awesome if the creep is that good we might see something other than 5 DE and 5 deamons in the top 10 of the english throne heats

Aldramelech
10-27-2009, 08:44 AM
But the Dwarfs won........

Lord Azaghul
10-27-2009, 09:12 AM
But the Dwarfs won........

Never trust a WD battle!
I have a hard time believe the dwarves would have honestly won, right now they are one of the most handycapped armies out there.

Besides gw didn't play a standard game.

Unrelated: I'd be willing to bet that standard games will be disappearing in the next edition.

Droofus
10-27-2009, 09:22 AM
@the OP.

Oh... you're being sarcastic. Took a minute to get that through my thick skull. :)

I wouldn't worry too much about the results of one game. Often inaugural battle reports will field substandard lists for the new army, as they're trying to showcase the coolest parts of the new army.

We'll know soon enough whether the Skaven are underpowered/overpowered/just right, but we won't learn it from WD battle reports.

j-orge-287
10-27-2009, 12:08 PM
The scenario was capture the tower-the dwarfs had a lord and hammeres take it from night runners in turn 4

Herald of Nurgle
10-27-2009, 01:49 PM
Regardless of the brokedness, I have made a vow...

Even if they can murderise my WoC. Even if they are the bane of Daemons. I will NOT surrender to an army that costs £20 for a 100pt unit.

jamesTFL
10-27-2009, 03:13 PM
yeah we have played 3-4 test games at my local club and thus far the conclusions are that. The magic is subpar, the doomwheel is ok, the plague furnace is a massive suicide bomb ( but easily avoidable), and that the old skaven gunline mentality will need to change.

Perhaps plague mortars, exploding slaves units and doomwheels/rat ogres to deal with monsters and cavalry.

Aegis
10-29-2009, 10:28 PM
But the Dwarfs won........

Even with the dwarves winning, by the end of the report (just from the Plague monks alone) I could not see them coming out on top... The Bell eliminating almost all the war machines in one fell swoop was somewhat freaky...

Dosadi
10-30-2009, 06:31 AM
Having looked over the new Skaven book in some detail I’m of the mind that the list is quite balanced. There is a distinct lack of ward saves or really powerful magic weapons. Their characters are not very good at fighting (save the odd assassin) or leading (except from the rear…of a very large unit). The units are slightly more useful, but you can’t count on them to actually kill anything and woe to anyone that lets their clan rats get flank charged.

What they do get is a load of fun and deadly toys and a total lack of concern for their fellow rat-men. This is a hoard army done right IMO (the first real one…goblins don’t count). This is an army that is going to win, not by having unbeatable troops, not by having the most game breaking magic, but by holding your enemy back with sheer weight of numbers and blasting your enemy with deadly warp fuelled warmachines and magic. What I like most about the new list is the fact that you can make multiple army types and they could all be competitive. The Clans have returned in this list. You can go Skyre and take a ton of warp-lock firearms, mortars, flame throwers, doom wheels. You can do a Moulder monster mash army or a sneaky Eschin list.

I have not played against them yet, but I’d say they are closest to the Lizardmen in terms of their power level. I could see Skaven beating Daemons and Dark Elves if played right. It’s one of those lists where the power and tactics are not immediately apparent; I’d give it 3 months before I start screaming “codex creep”. Especially if all I had to go on was a WD battle report.


Dosadi

icecube
10-30-2009, 10:39 AM
Yeah, i don´t see Skaven as an new super broken army, far from it. More like a super fun army with all the new crazed stuff. By the way, what about clan Pestillience? Doesn´t the plague lord special character make them core?

j-orge-287
10-31-2009, 05:07 AM
I dunno about plague lords or anything like that because i'm concentrating on how to kill them!

Cryl
11-02-2009, 02:14 AM
Yeah, i don´t see Skaven as an new super broken army, far from it. More like a super fun army with all the new crazed stuff. By the way, what about clan Pestillience? Doesn´t the plague lord special character make them core?

Yup, Plague Monks become core

Lord Azaghul
11-02-2009, 07:38 AM
IF games workshop does a few things in the next edition the book will seem right in line.

I was reading the store copy on saturday and I tried to look at it from the perspective of 8th edition.
IF partials are gone from all template weapons in the main BRB.
IF TERROR is changed (I didn't notice anything causing terror in the 20 min I spent reading the book)
IF the magic system is changed.

Overall the skaven army looked like it could deal out a ton of damage, but everything misfires. Some of the bell results are just wrong. My dwarf anvil better be changed to similar functionality, and I want an "ALL enemy units take a panic test, even if they are immune to psycology"

I still don't want to play vs them until 8th ed rolls out.

Craftworlds_Voice
11-02-2009, 11:18 AM
I would say that the codex is FAR from good. It maybe fun for home games, but all tournament skaven players will be dissapointed.

Jezzails lost skirmish (which is really bad), globadiers are specials (what makes them unplayable), ratling guns need to hit and have a different misfire table, warp lightning is only d6 and warpfire cannon shoots more or less like a normal cannon and requires line of sight. On top of that no normal bound spell and all other magic items are really WEAK. You cant shoot at close combat (apart from slaves), and the slave units are destroyed automatically when they fail their break test.

From the other side you gain better spells for the grey seer (and he is ld 7) and the hellpit abomination plus clanrats a half point cheaper. Not really much...

I dont see the hitting power of this army, because you wont be able to have a very strong shooting / magic phase as before, and as everyone knows - skaven suck at h-to-h.

The list is really balanced, I agree but unfortunately most other armies are not..
Conclusion - as I said on the beginning - nice for home games , but it will be a rare sight to see a skaven player winning a big tournament....

S0ULDU5T
11-03-2009, 11:38 PM
Conclusion - as I said on the beginning - nice for home games , but it will be a rare sight to see a skaven player winning a big tournament....

I hadn't seen where they were winning them before so I don't think it will be much of a dissapointment. If I wanted to play a game system where the newest thing was all teh rage in tournies I'd play MTG. Here, I'll take a balanced army book every time. Long live the game!