First WoC Army List 2000

[Learn2Eel]

Hey guys, I was hoping to get some feedback on an army list I made up today. A foreword; I am not an experienced Warhammer Fantasy player, and I am not really attuned to how Warriors of Chaos work competitively.
In any case, the army list is based around the Tzeentch theme - every unit that can take it has the Mark of Tzeentch. I have a mix of hammer and anvil units, and though I'm not really looking for a competitive army - more-so just one that is fun, fluffy and still decent - I would like to see what you guys think.

Tzeentch Warriors of Chaos 2000

Lords
Sorcerer Lord w/ Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Third Eye of Tzeentch - 310

Heroes
Exalted Champion w/ Mark of Tzeentch, Battle Standard Bearer, Blasted Standard, Shield, Talisman of Endurance - 188

Core
Chaos Warriors (20) w/ Mark of Tzeentch, full command, Shields, Lichebone Pennant - 385
Chaos Warriors (20) w/ Mark of Tzeentch, full command, Shields - 370

Special
Chaos Knights (5) w/ Mark of Tzeentch, Ensorcelled Weapons, full command - 255
Chimera w/ Regeneration - 245
Chimera w/ Regeneration - 245

Total - 1998

Some notes and questions I had in case you were curious about some decisions;
* The Sorcerer Lord has a +2 armour save and the well-known cheese +3 ward save with re-rolls of 1s. The plan is to swap out his powers for Lore of Metal usually. He goes with the Lichebone Pennant-wielding regiment. As a note, might it be a better idea to switch with unit has which banner - or even switch the banners out for different ones?
* The BSB is durable as well, with a +3 armour save and a +4 ward save. The Blasted Standard seems a good pick to me; he goes in the other regiment.
* Are two units of 20 Chaos Warriors with sword/board/Tzeentch viable? I know most will say I should have one Halberds unit.
* I tried out the Chaos Knights in a demo-game today with my LGS's WoC army, and they did spectacularly well. Do you think they are worth it? Is Tzeentch alright for them? Am I better off investing in something else?
* The Chimeras are my war-machine hunters; they are expensive, but very, very deadly. Is a pair about right do you think?

I looked at Skullcrushers and Gorebeast Chariots, but the former breaks my theme and the latter, whilst great, I would much prefer to field in pairs - which is obviously illegal with two Chimeras. I really like the Chaos Knights models too. As well, will running my Sorcerer Lord on foot in one of those big blocks be detrimental do you think? Should I give him a decent close combat weapon?

Thanks for any and all input!

[White Tiger88]

Update the list to 2250 thats the normal game size i see played with the new rulebook....... ALso i am no WoC expert but i would get a Daemon prince or Valkia in there since you seem pretty light on big beasts. (Chimera are not worth it really and regeneration is really easy to ignore now days)

[Learn2Eel]

1500-2000 is about the norm where I play.
Valkia is Khorne though, can't do that haha.

Yeah I've really looked at a daemon prince, and it wouldn't be hard at all to turn the Sorcerer Lord into a normal Sorcerer minus some of the upgrades. My issue was spending too big on a character but in reality I am spending over 300 on a magic user lol.
Instead of Chimerae, what would you recommend? For monsters, sadly the Mutalith and Slaughterbrute aren't as good as Chimerae in my opinion. Gorebeast Chariots are very good and much cheaper, freeing up space for a Rare choice - maybe a Mutalith? Or even a Hellcannon?

Thanks by the way!

[Chronowraith]

Chimerae are a bit overpriced for what you get, especially the add-ons, but are still useful for hunting scouts, fast cavalry, and war machines.

I'd stick with the sorceror lord personally. Daemon princes can be targeted separately, and while durable, their durability doesn't offset always being targeted by shooting.

If I were to change anything, I'd drop one chimerae for two chariots (core) and potentially switch one unit of warriors with shields over to halberds.

On a few other topics... yes, regen is easy to ignore because of a cheap common banner. That doesnt stop people from taking trolls, Hydras, or HPAs though... same logic applies to chimerae. As for the knights, they still work, just be cautious with them. They don't break units as easily as in previous editions but for their points they work wonders.

[Learn2Eel]

Yeah that's what I thought my army needed, whilst Chimerae are expensive they definitely do the job well. Not sure where else to get war-machine hunters for Warriors of Chaos.

That is definitely right, one cannon shot later and bam! (Literally lol). Pus I think the Sorcerer Lord works better in the kind of army I'm going.

That sounds good, would a Gorebeast Chariot also be a good investment or would the standard ones do just fine you think? Also, do you think I will be handicapped too much if I keep both Chaos Warriors units as they are? If I take Halberds, I see little point in taking both Shields and the Mark of Tzeentch, so like the Chaos Knights (explained below), I could free up some points elsewhere?

Yeah that is what I've noticed, regen can be ignored quite easily but it is still a big part of some of the nastiest monsters in the game. I'll definitely make sure to follow your advice with the Knights, whilst they do look like prime unit-killers at first, flank-charges and target selection is much more important. They are very good, as well as Skullcrushers, but not only do they fit the theme, they look awesome to boot :) I'm just curious though, as Cavalry don't get the benefits of a Parry save, is it worth dropping the Mark of Tzeentch on them to free up some points elsewhere? I think it is only like 10-15 points so maybe not.

Thanks!

[Chronowraith]

Standard Chariots work fine in this case. If you have the spare points and want a gorebeast chariot though, it wouldn't hurt to upgrade. Personal choice though, just make sure you have enough points in core (not too hard with two blocks of 20 warriors).

For the warriors, IF you upgrade a unit to halberds, drop the Mark of Tzeentch. To answer your question more directly, no, there is no harm in keeping both of them sword and board other than this limits how many units you have on the table that can reliably deal with high toughness and high strength monsters.

I love Chaos Knights. I use them less in 8th edition than previous editions but they really can do a great deal of damage. They are also useful for the "oh crap" panic they give opponents who spend an unusual amount of time and effort removing them from the board, thus allowing the warrior blocks to advance.

Eh, the mark on the Knights is really superfluous. The only one they REALLY benefit from is Khorne (which would break your theme). If you really need the points, go for it, if you can't use them elsewhere, might as well keep them.

Another suggestion, if I may? Try and add some placement drops. Against large armies like Empire, Skaven, Orcs, Goblins, etc you are at a severe disadvantage. They will have only placed their chaff units by the time you have fully deployed. So I'd suggest some minimal units of warhounds. Just make sure to keep everything else outside of panic range or well within the general's Inspiring Presence range.

One last thing I just noticed... the BSB can't have both a magic banner and magic items. It's either/or not both. So you have to decide if you want the blasted standard or the talisman. For banners, I'd probably go with the standard of discipline in whatever unit your general (the sorcerer) is going to stay as that will beef him up to Ld9 Inspiring Presence instead of a mediocre 8. Of course, if you want to stick with your theme... keep the blasted standard :) Chaos Characters are pretty durable on their own.

[White Tiger88]

Yike i didn't notice the Knights had MOT! Like Chrono said they only are really worth giving the mark of khorne......However with the new rulebook why not check out these guys? (I don't know how good they are mind you...but would look awesome)

-Mutalith Vortex Beast, Its big, looks scary and is a mix of tzeentch\Slaanesh goodness......
-Dragon Ogres (Would give your army a big punchy unit that can take wounds)

But whatever you pick try to get the model count up a bit maybe? Right now a Vampire Player could tie you up with a Quarter of his\her core for a whole game well flanking around =/

[Learn2Eel]

Standard Chariots work fine in this case. If you have the spare points and want a gorebeast chariot though, it wouldn't hurt to upgrade. Personal choice though, just make sure you have enough points in core (not too hard with two blocks of 20 warriors).

For the warriors, IF you upgrade a unit to halberds, drop the Mark of Tzeentch. To answer your question more directly, no, there is no harm in keeping both of them sword and board other than this limits how many units you have on the table that can reliably deal with high toughness and high strength monsters.

I love Chaos Knights. I use them less in 8th edition than previous editions but they really can do a great deal of damage. They are also useful for the "oh crap" panic they give opponents who spend an unusual amount of time and effort removing them from the board, thus allowing the warrior blocks to advance.

Eh, the mark on the Knights is really superfluous. The only one they REALLY benefit from is Khorne (which would break your theme). If you really need the points, go for it, if you can't use them elsewhere, might as well keep them.

Another suggestion, if I may? Try and add some placement drops. Against large armies like Empire, Skaven, Orcs, Goblins, etc you are at a severe disadvantage. They will have only placed their chaff units by the time you have fully deployed. So I'd suggest some minimal units of warhounds. Just make sure to keep everything else outside of panic range or well within the general's Inspiring Presence range.

One last thing I just noticed... the BSB can't have both a magic banner and magic items. It's either/or not both. So you have to decide if you want the blasted standard or the talisman. For banners, I'd probably go with the standard of discipline in whatever unit your general (the sorcerer) is going to stay as that will beef him up to Ld9 Inspiring Presence instead of a mediocre 8. Of course, if you want to stick with your theme... keep the blasted standard :) Chaos Characters are pretty durable on their own.

Yeah will do, haven't got the codex handy right now so I can't remember exactly how much more expensive/powerful a Gorebeast Chariot is, but I'll make sure to have a look when I can.
Agreed. Most players I come up against don't use monsters, but I agree it is probably a good idea. I'll have a look at the other options I'll be adding in/changing up and see if I will need them.
Yeah they definitely do that I've noticed, they are very cost effective too. Charged them into a unit of Trolls with a Big Boss the other day and they ran riot - laughably, the Knight Champion beat the Big Boss in combat and not a single Knight died. They then promptly ran the poor Trolls down.
Yeah, I'll drop that. No point having a pointless upgrade.

I noticed a lot of players taking five or was it ten-strong Warhound units with Vanguard, which looks a good deal.
Ah, I didn't know that. I'm still learning Fantasy, I thought it would be a good idea to get into both of the big games in the hobby haha. I can always just give the Blasted Standard to the banner bearer in the BSB's unit, no change there, so that will work fine. I had a look at the Standard of Discipline, it says they are +1 Leadership but can't use his Inspiring Presence, I looked at it earlier and got confused; I now realize it is just the unit with the banner, even though the Sorcerer still gets the +1 Leadership! Nice!


Yike i didn't notice the Knights had MOT! Like Chrono said they only are really worth giving the mark of khorne......However with the new rulebook why not check out these guys? (I don't know how good they are mind you...but would look awesome)

-Mutalith Vortex Beast, Its big, looks scary and is a mix of tzeentch\Slaanesh goodness......
-Dragon Ogres (Would give your army a big punchy unit that can take wounds)

But whatever you pick try to get the model count up a bit maybe? Right now a Vampire Player could tie you up with a Quarter of his\her core for a whole game well flanking around =/

Yeah I'll drop that, it made it 2000 points on the dot so I thought why not haha.
As far as the beasties go, the Mutalith is a bit over-costed for what it does IMO, but it would be cool and fluffy no doubt. The Dragon Ogres look good, but I'm not too sure about their rules just yet. I think they are good though.

Yeah I guess if I don't run a lot of Warhounds or Marauders I'll probably have that problem though lol, however it isn't all bad as almost every army in my meta is elite like mine. Still, doesn't hurt to get the best out of the list.

Thanks guys, when I've next got the codex in hand I'll post up a new army list :)

[Chronowraith]

I agree with you on the Mutalith. The monsters big bonus is the bound spell and paying that many points for a monster with mediocre stats (for a monster) and a gimmick that is easily shut down (and costs you power dice to use) isn't worth it. Dragon Ogres are a viable option. The only reason people didn't use them before was due to their god-awful miniatures.

Units of 5 warhounds with Vanguard are excellent placement drops and redirect units. That being said, if you lacking the points, 5 plain warhounds work just fine at fulfilling the same role.

Standard of Discipline is one of the strangest items as most people upon first glance think, "Why would I want that?" But, as you surmised it works very well for low Ld armies. The trick is to place the banner in the same unit as the general as that unit does not use the general's Inspiring Presence. However, the general receives a +1 Ld bonus which DOES affect his Inspiring Presence (so your sorcerer lord would have a Ld9 bubble instead of Ld8). Not bad for such a cheap cost.

[Learn2Eel]

Yeah, I love the Mutalith model and I think the idea is cool, but I will probably just reserve it for a Tzeentch Maulerfiend in 40K. I wouldn't mind Dragon Ogres to be honest. I'll make sure to have a look at Warhounds and see what I can do.

[Learn2Eel]

Here we go;

Lords
Sorcerer Lord w/ mark of tzeentch, talisman of preservation, enchanted shield, third eye of tzeentch - 310

Heroes
Exalted Champion w/ bsb, blasted standard, shield, mark of tzeentch - 158

Core
Chaos Warriors (20) w/ full command, standard of discipline, shields, mark of tzeentch - 385
Chaos Warriors (20) w/ full command, halberds - 370
Chaos Chariot - 110
Chaos Chariot - 110
Chaos Warhounds (5) - 30
Chaos Warhounds (5) - 30

Special
Chaos Knights (5) w/ ensorcelled weapons, full command - 245
Chimera w/ regeneration - 245

How does it look?
Sorcerer goes with the Tzeentch unit, BSB goes with the Halberd unit, so they live to get into combat.