Dark Angels 1750

[Consadine]

I am one of those guys who doesn't use a Deathwing/Ravenwing Dark Angels list; not having the models is a restricting factor. There is that factor of winning with what some folks see as one of the poorer army lists to take (non-Deathwing/Ravenwing Dark Angels) that I find delightful.

Azrael: 225

Ezekiel: 170

Command Squad: 180
-x2 Power Weapons
-Chapter Banner
-Apothecary

Land Raider Crusader: 250

Tactical Squad: 195
-Plasma Gun
-Plasma Cannon

Tactical Squad: 195
-Plasma Gun
-Plasma Cannon

Tactical Squad: 180
-Plasma Cannon

Razorback: 80
-tl LAZcannon

Rhino: 35

Rhino: 35

Land Speeder: 65
-Multimelta

Land Speeder: 65
-Multimelta

Whirlwind: 85

-----

This list puts me at 1760. D'oh! But where to cut 10 points? I suppose I could drop a Plasma Gun off a Tactical squad and add a meltagun or something...

Really any list based off Azrael + Ezekiel + Command Squad + Land Raider Crusader (that's the one I own, restricted in that regard). The unit is a killer: +1A for everyone in the squad due to the Chapter Banner, and Azrael gives them all a 4+ Invul due to the Lion's Helm. There's other bonuses like Azrael hitting on S6, so T3 multi-wound models beware (IG Heavy Weapon teams in particular) and Ezekiel's psychic hood with unlimited range. He's really there as a psychic shield against Eldar and Wolves; his close combat attacks are just a bonus, really.

So, whatch'all think?

[Chumbalaya]

Yuck.

Azzy has no Eternal Warrior and only WS5. Awfully pricey when a normal SM Captain does the same with better protection.

Zeke is a joke, this is self-explanatory.

Command Squad has only 5 men, no powerfist.

575 points that bounces off of 200 points of TH/SS Termies.

Plasma fetish is the worst "fluff" they ever force fed DA with. Plasma isn't fluffy, it was just a stupid bone GW threw our way to make us unique instead of giving us anything actually worthwhile. Multi-melta and flamer is superior. TLLC Razors are silly overpriced.

Pick up a HF on those Speeders, it's not much more expensive than the vanilla version.

Whirlies are decent, but they aren't helping you here.

You have 0 anti-armor beyond your flying wet paper bags, a horrendously overpriced assault unit that isn't that good in assault and also happens to be your lynchpin, and very few vehicles. Beyond that, everything in your army is overpriced and worse than the Vanilla version.

Company Command w/ relic blade and storm shield (145)
Epistolary w/ Avenger and Force Dome (150)
Command Squad w/ 2 power weapons, Company Banner (150)
LRC (250)
Tactical Squad w/ plasma gun, plasma cannon, Rhino (220)
Tactical Squad w/ plasma gun, plasma cannon, Rhino (220)
Tactical Squad w/ plasma cannon, TLLC Razorback (235)
Land Speeder w/ MM (60)
Land Speeder w/ MM (60)
Whirlwind (85)

1575, 185 points cheaper with no real differences (beyond a superior Librarian, LRC, Command Squad, and combat tactics). It's still terrible, but you have a lot more to play with.

As a DA player, unless you're going to use what little is left of our book that makes us unique, just use vanilla rules. On the bright side, if/when they get around to re-doing our Codex they can't make it any worse.

[Consadine]

Your feedback is appreciated. Really, it is, not many folks take the time to leave their thoughts.

Azrael has no Eternal Warrior, but that's why there's a command squad. Two guys with regular equipment can take their 4+ invul and if they fail it, then they served their purpose well as wounds for the chapter master. Plus, they're all riding in the Crusader which even with the melta fetish going around can be a pain to crack open.

Ezekiel is definitely a lolwut? kinda guy. As I said, he's there as psychic power defense which comes in handy versus Eldar. I got tired of having nothing to stop psychic powers so that's why he's there.

I don't have many vehicles beyond what is given in the list. I think that is my motorpool, actually... With the majority of SM armor that I would take being 11 at best, it's better to take more infantry who can soak up a lascannon shot better than AV11. Also, the Razorback is to provide some anti-tank in lieu of the Tactical squads lacking missile launchers/lascannons... should it be worth it to switch out the Plasma Cannons for Missile Launchers or Lascannons?

The Whirlwind is to provide anti-infantry support for the Tactical squads which won't be moving far off their objectives/firing positions much.

I thought about the flamer on the Speeders because it's hard to turn down the cover-denying goodness, but I was trying to conserve points. Their purpose in the game is to either start in reserve or behind a building, wait a turn or two depending on my opponent's deployment, then go flat out behind more cover, or to provide a distraction for other targets moving out in the open (Rhinos with the Tactical squads, perhaps). Next turn, blow things to bits (whiffing is possible, but that's the risk of playing with dice).

At some point I'll make a vanilla list and play with it. Perhaps for tournaments, but I do have a preference for Dark Angels (to a fault, it seems).

Again, thanks for the feedback :)

[Chumbalaya]

I know how stubborn DA players can be, I stuck with them for a good long while before I just had it. The only time I use the DA book now is for Doublewing. My Ravenwing have been made redundant by the vanilla book, my Greenwing suffered the same fate, and my Deathwing are now moonlighting Space Pups. It sucks.

Since Azzie is an IC and the Command Squad is not a proper retinue, he can be singled out by mean old powerfists and get splatted. It's a real shame too. Company Vets would probably be better since you get more bodies and more weapons, 5 is just too few.

Zeke is hilariously terrible. You can pick up an allied Grey Knight Grand Master for cheaper. He's got a Ld10 hood too, also 2+/5++ and a S6 force weapon :P

I find Tacticals work best with multi-meltas and flamers. They're cheap and exceptionally flexible, good for burning troops or popping any tank in the game. A single lascannon doesn't give much pause, but a multi-melta makes anybody sweat.

Heavy Flamers are a must on those Speeders. With it they become a lot more flexible, capable of nuking anything while retaining their mobility and low cost. Shame they can't Deep Strike (Vanilla can :P)

The biggest problem your army has now is dealing with vehicles. Beyond your Speeders and LRC multi-melta you've got nothing. Doling out some multi-meltas to your Tacticals, adding Dreads (TLAC and ML work nicely for cheap), Preds (AC/HBs), and the like will give you some help knocking out lighter armor and sticking wounds on just about anything. If you don't have any more vehicles, DW do a passable job with their assault cannons.

[Consadine]

Hey, going for the GK Grand Master is an appallingly good idea. I will have to give that a go! :D Oh the possibilities...

I'll play a few games with a modified list of the one given, then several with the Company Veterans. The idea had crossed my mind but the Banner is quite a bit of fun. More attacks from the regular guys might be better, though.

Two reasons why I don't take multi-meltas in my Tac squad: I don't have have MM Marines and I like the longer range of the Lascannon/Missile Launcher. Granted I have never really played with transports until 5th edition so I'm still getting used to the whole "Go mech!" metagame. I'm not good with change, which is probably why my adventures into collecting Tau failed miserably :p

I am getting the subtle clues... go vanilla, go vanilla... when I do, you'll be the first to hear about it.

[Chumbalaya]

We have cookies...and milk.

[eagleboy7259]

I am getting the subtle clues... go vanilla, go vanilla... when I do, you'll be the first to hear about it.

Noo... stand by our 'dex, even if it is terrible in comparison to the vanilla one. Just go multi-wing, Belial, Terminators as troops, and even Sammy rocking out Armor 14 all round if you want, and possibly the only way we are still viable.

[Pi666]

Never go vanilla, if you like Dark Angels for whatever reason, stay in your codex (DA player talking), and yes, maybe vanilla marines are cheaper but ask yourself: do you wanna go out there and get pointed and be "another" vanilla marine player?

[Consadine]

It's nice to see the Dark Angels players coming out of the woodwork :p For now I'll be playing more games with the DA book; I'm still not used to it.

Back to the list, though, if I give this Grey Knight Grand Master the Unguents of Warding, do I get to stack the 4+ save that affords on top of the psychic hood? Nothing says I can't that I can see. To boot there is a Chaos Daemons player at my store, should be fun.

[Pi666]

If you want a psyker that bad, take a regular psyker.

For so few points i won't take Azrael. Give a try to the Interrogator Chaplain (a bargain for 120 points!). If you want the extra attack given by the Chapter Standard, and making some sort of super unit, take the Interrogator who will allow you to reroll to hit the turn you assault.

And remember the little Secret we the Dark Angels have? We just don't like the Inquisition close to us...

[Consadine]

Azrael gives everyone in his squad a 4+ invul and provides a means to counter-assault Daemon Princes reasonably. He has worked sofar.

About that secret, it's a pity I won't get to use the Hunt the Fallen rule... oh wait... >.>

[Pi666]

If you're decided to use the Grandmaster yes or yes, the add the Interrogator for improve the beating.

[eagleboy7259]

If you're worried about demon princes and other monstrous creatures just take a Terminator Liberian. Sure his powers aren't the greatest, and a Ld 9 is blech compared to other psykers, but an I5 Force Weapon still does the job against monsters.

[Chumbalaya]

DPs have Eternal Warrior :P

Company Vets would be the better pick. More bodies makes up for the loss of attacks. Azzie is neat, but just too pricey considering how fragile he is. An Interrogator-Chaplain is probably the best non-Belial/Sammael HQ DA have access to. Stick him with some Company Vets and they can cause some damage. Not as effective as other assault units, but they can manage.

DA don't really have much in the way of uber assault units, at least nothing on par with other armies. They're more about combined arms, mobility, and dakka.

[Consadine]

The Grey Knight Grand Masters Nemesis Force Weapon gets around the Eternal Warrior as DH Force Weapons don't cause Instant Death; rather, they remove the rest of the wounds on the model. Got yer nose!

I'll have to build a few more guys to have a Company Veterans squad. Curse my slow hobbying speed...

[Chumbalaya]

Yep, but DA Libbies don't. Another reason not to field one :P

[eagleboy7259]

DPs have Eternal Warrior :P

GK Grand Master it is! Or Stern if he's got that hood you want... I don't have my DH codex on me.