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Erazoender
11-01-2009, 03:03 PM
Alright so here are the two lists I wrote, and I am debating between the two. I think I'm leaning toward the first, but anyways, please give me your opinions.

Space Wolves 1500 Pt Roster: List 1

HQ: 270

Njal Stormcaller: 270 (With Wolf Guard Terminators)
- Njal
- Runic Terminator Armor

Elites: 473

Wolf Scout Pack: 85
- 5 Wolf Scouts
- Meltagun
- Loki*

Wolf Scout Pack: 85
- 5 Wolf Scouts
- Meltagun
- Hoskuld**

Wolf Guard Pack: 303
- Arngrim: Terminator Armor + Cyclone Missile Launcher
- Thor: Terminator Armor + Storm Shield + Chain Fist
- Leiknir: Terminator Armor + Storm Shield + Wolf Claw
- Ragi: Terminator Armor + 2x Wolf Claws
- Loki: Power Fist*
- Hoskuld: Power Fist**

Troops: 590

Grey Hunter Pack: 215
- 10 Grey Hunters
- Meltagun
- Meltagun
- Powerfist
- Rhino APC

Grey Hunter Pack: 215
- 10 Grey Hunters
- Meltagun
- Meltagun
- Powerfist
- Rhino APC

Grey Hunter Pack: 160
- 10 Grey Hunters
- Plasma Gun
- Plasma Gun

Heavy Support: 170

Long Fang Pack: 170
- 6 Long Fangs
- 3 Missile Launchers
- 2 Lascannons

Total: 1503

Space Wolves 1500 Pt Roster: List 2

HQ: 155

Wolf Guard Battle Leader: 155 (With Blood Claws)
- Runic Armor
- Storm Shield
- Frost Blade
- Wolftooth Necklace

Elites: 384

Wolf Guard Pack: 114 (One in each Troop Choice)
- 3 Wolf Guard
- Powerfist x3

Dreadnought: 165
- Venerable Dreadnought

Dreadnought: 105
- Dreadnought

Troops: 580

Grey Hunter Pack
- 9 Grey Hunters
- Meltagun
- Powerfist
- Rhino

Grey Hunter Pack
- 9 Grey Hunters
- Meltagun
- Powerfist
- Rhino

Blood Claw Pack
- 8 Blood Claws
- Flamer
- Power Fist
- Rhino

Fast Attack: 145

Switftclaw Biker Pack: 145
- 3 Bikers
- Meltagun
- Attackbike
-- Multi-Melta
- 4x Meltabombs

Heavy Support: 230

Vindicator: 115
- Vindicator

Vindicator: 115
- Vindicator


Total: 1494

ChaosPhoenix
11-01-2009, 03:55 PM
It's a bit stupid, but I like the first one more. Why? Because thats 95% my own list and it served me well until now. But I still feel a little unsecure with Space Wolfs. I use flamers instead of meltas in the GH squads and 2 Landspeeder to deliver the AA-Firepower and my GHs are lead by Wolfguard with PFs.. but I've no Wolfguards in my scouts :).
So I don't know if that helps but at least someone had th same (good or stupid?) idea like you ;)

Edit: I'm talking about the first list. I just realised, you are not able to know how I voted, if more than one person votes ;)

Chumbalaya
11-01-2009, 04:27 PM
Too bad neither isn't an option...

I'd lean towards list 1 as it has less useless units. The Wolf Scouts need cutting and you only have 2 vehicles. No appreciable anti-tank at range or up close and Njal doesn't fit at all.

List 2 has more anti-tank firepower, but it's got the hilariously terrible Swiftclaws, underperforming BCs, and Vindicators (pie plate + CC army = hit your own guys).

Both need work.

Erazoender
11-01-2009, 05:10 PM
I'm aware of that, but that's just what I have to work with.

I haven't been able to find a stupid-competitive list without Thunderwolf Calvary, so I just gave up on trying to make a competitive list.

And wait, what do you mean no Anti-Tank at range or up close?

Range:

5 Missiles
2 Lascannons
(Anti-Light Vehicles) Njal

Up Close:

6 Meltaguns
Chainfist
Powerfists

Chumbalaya
11-01-2009, 07:19 PM
2 lascannons and 3 missiles concentrated in a unit where every casualty is a heavy weapon. Meltas in your only (AV11) vehicles. Chainfist is walking. I wouldn't consider that very good.

You can be competitive without Thunderwolves, but you end up with an army that may as well be vanilla.

Confuddled
11-01-2009, 08:17 PM
Looking at individual components of both lists….

1) Njal’s just too darn expensive for 1500. It doesn’t help that he only really starts to shine come mid-game. Maybe in a 1750-1850 game, but at 1500, you really want to concentrate on the other elements in your list.


2) Wolf Scouts are good at what they do – you certainly get what you pay for.
Trouble is:
a) WS/BS4 comes at a price - they’re NOT troop choices. Half the attraction of outflanking Marine scouts is the fact that they can actually sneak in and hold unattended objectives. 5 Wolf Scouts camped on an empty objective contribute exactly NOTHING to the final tally.

b) They’re only really good at killing SOFT static units, be it a lone 5-man combat squad or a Basilisk parked behind a building.

c) They’re not actually all that much of a deterrent.
- If he’s playing a mobile and/or aggressive army, the Scouts are pretty much wasted, since he’s going to be gunning for you!
- If he’s playing a relatively static gun-line, Wolf Scouts are only a factor come mid/late game. While waiting for the Scouts to show up, the other guy’s static units WILL get at least 1 round of shooting off – probably 2, possibly 3, maybe even 4 if he’s lucky (or if he’s got an Officer of the Fleet in play)!


3) Long Fangs can pump out a very respectable amount of shooting. Pity they’re not Relentless. Trouble is:
a) 1 game out of 3, they’re not shooting for at least 1 round. Maybe 2 if they’re trying to get into a nice piece of area/difficult terrain 8” in from the table edge.

b) They’re really cheap, but:
- Once they take a couple of casualties, their effectiveness drops exponentially.
- They’re also horribly fragile - unless you’re able to deploy them in a nice patch of cover (4+ cover save or better), odds are they’re not going to survive past turn 3.
- It doesn’t help that you’ve got all your long-range anti-tank concentrated in a single squad - once they’re down, my vehicles are going to be a LOT safer.


4) Venerable Dreadnoughts just aren’t that effective – for 60 points less, you might as well stick with a regular Dreadnought.
a) The Venerable re-roll is nice and all, but it doesn’t change the fact that they’re still only (!) AV12.

b) WS5 is kinda irrelevant for Wolf Dreads –
- Offensively, you’ve got the Wolftooth Necklace for your attacks.
- Defensively, everyone is hitting you on 3s or 4s anyway.

c) BS5 is nice and all, but its still only a single dreadnought with one long gun.


5) Swiftclaws are…heh…well, I’d say that they’re best used as a turbo-boosting delivery system for a Wolf combat HQ (Lord or Battle Leader) or a power-fist-toting Wolf Guard.
Trouble is, for that, you’d pretty much need a BIG squad –

a) If you’re running a small squad (ie 3 guys and an attack bike), you don’t have much resilience OR hitting power – once you lose a model, the squad just ain’t scary any longer. No respect, really.
b) With a big squad, you can afford to take a few risks, be it from enemy shooting or dangerous terrain tests (one of the biggest advantages of bikes over cavalry is the ability to move through difficult terrain with no penalty beyond the odd dangerous-terrain test), and WS3 or no WS3, no one can afford to ignore 6 Marine bikers with a power fist one turn away. He WILL lose something when they hit.

Granted, the real question is whether or not the bikers can actually hit anything, but hey, there’s a reason why Swiftclaws are generally considered second-tier (or even third!) in the codex…

And yes, the multi-melta upgrade just ain’t worth it – not at BS3. Biggest advantage of taking an attack bike? The fact that you’re effectively paying 5 extra points for a W2 A2 biker whom you can allocate the odd S7 AP2 wound to.

Confuddled
11-01-2009, 08:18 PM
So, what to do?

Go with option (C) – a combination of both lists. ;)

Basically, a (relatively!) cheap hitty Battle Leader on a bike, 4 packs of Grey Hunters (10 men) in Rhinos, a single squad of mixed Wolf Guard in a pod and a pair of regular Dreads.

In other words:


Wolf Guard Battle Leader, Frost Blade, Runic Armour, melta bombs, bike
10 Grey Hunters, 2 meltas, Wolf Standard, power weapon, Rhino
10 Grey Hunters, 2 meltas, Wolf Standard, power weapon, Rhino
10 Grey Hunters, 2 plasma guns, Rhino
10 Grey Hunters, 2 plasma guns, Rhino
Dreadnought, Wolftooth Necklace
Dreadnought, Wolftooth Necklace


Comes to about 1450 points, leaving you with another 50+ points to spend on random stuff – Saga of the Warrior Born for the Battle Leader, more Wolf Standards or power weapons or whatever else catches you fancy…

1) Battle Leader actually costs more than the Swiftclaws, but:
a) You need a HQ anyway. And at least you’ve got one other fast (if expensive) unit to back up the Terminators in a hurry.
b) He’ll probably do more damage than the Swiftclaws, especially against other Marine units.
c) He’s easier to hide, and more mobile to boot (gotta love Skiller Rider when it comes to taking Dangerous Terrain tests with confidence!)
Depending on the opponent and mission, he could either cower in a corner behind a Rhino or just tear down the table at top speed and draw as much enemy fire as possible before dying (in)gloriously.

The alternative, of course, would be a budget Rune Priest in Terminator Armour (so you can use the Njal model!) – less than half the price, and in any non-Annihilation mission, you can just park him off to one corner (preferably in cover) and let him draw fire.


2) Wolf Guard do pretty much the same thing as Wolf Scouts. They cost a heck of a lot more, but:
a) They’re also a darn sight more durable.

b) You pick where you deploy.

c) They’re actually MORE of a deterrent to static units, since the other guy is faced with a choice. Either he:
– deploys his static guns on the table and risk being nuked by the Wolf Guard, OR;
- keeps his static guns in reserve, in which case he runs the risk of them showing up too late to do any good.

d) With a cyclone, a chainfist and 3+combi-meltas, you’ve got a wide range of engagement options – you can either jump in for a kamikaze strike on that one key unit, or you can drop in a little further back and off to one flank or the other, or have the pod drop empty and walk forward… its up to you, really.


3) Grey Hunters basically work together in teams – exact deployment depends on opponent


4) Dreadnoughts move up in company with the Rhinos and block and/or support as needed.


Drop a pack of Hunters for “flavour” units if you will (Bloodclaws, Wolves, Skyclaws, a Lone Wolf or two… whatever rocks your boat, really…)

Erazoender
11-01-2009, 10:27 PM
Alright, here's a question for all you guys;

In 1500 points, what's "the best" (I know, I'm no fool saying "MAKE ME THE BEST LIST") in your opinion, that you've had the most success with. What I'm aiming for is trying to make a list that is tough to beat, but has that wolfy flavor to it. I'm having trouble making a list that is a healthy balance between the two in 1500 point games. The easiest solution is a Special Character... and I'm really quite fond of Psykers.

If I WOULD run a combat hero, I would certainly run the Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf with a Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, and Saga of the Warrior Born.

Confuddled
11-02-2009, 12:45 AM
Well, the question that begs asking is:

“What constitutes a “Wolfy” flavour to you?”



Apart from the obvious (four-legged Wolves of various flavours and sizes), some key differences imho would be:

1) Access to special weapons with smaller squads (Razorbacks might as well be tailor-made for Grey Hunters).


2) The Wolf Standard


3) Wolf Guard as a jack-of-all-trades unit that is used to reinforce your other squads, deliver a heavy punch and/or serve as a bodyguard for the HQ.

So take those as the core of your list.

Also, I'm working on the assumption that you want a take-all-comers army, as opposed to some form of one-trick pony.


As for Njal, eh..he's nifty enough, but:
1) While he’s a great support character, the high point cost stings at this point level. By the time you’re done paying for Njal and his lap dogs, there won’t be all that much left for him to support.

(Great way to get an army painted up fast, though…)


2) His utility is also very subjective, mostly hinging on the fact that he needs to be able to see an enemy unit before his Tempest thingy really kicks in –

a) If you’re in range, so is the enemy.

b) Unless you’re playing on a featureless board, there’s a limit to just how far can you see when you’re a 2” tall model. ;)



Suggestion?

(seeing as how you like pyskers AND Njal is a pretty sweet model….)





Rune Priest, Chooser, Terminator Armour
Probably Living Lightning and Tempest’ Wrath –
Lightning is self-explanatory.

Tempest’ Wrath, because its the ability with the best odds of stopping the usual Turn 5 Skimmer Bum Rush. Also useful for slowing down all those pesky fast units buzzing around your Rune Priest, helping compensate for your relative lack of anti-skimmer guns
...


Pack 1 – 5 Grey Hunters, melta gun, Razorback
Pack 2 – 5 Grey Hunters, melta gun, Razorback
Pack 3 – 5 Grey Hunters, flamer, Razorback, t/l lascannon
Pack 4 – 10 Grey Hunters, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen, power weapon, 2 plasma guns


10 Wolf Guard –
Terminator, combi-melta (drop pod)
Terminator, combi-melta, chain fist (drop pod)
Terminator, cyclone (drop pod)
Terminator, cyclone launcher, wolf claw (drop pod)
Wolf Guard, combi-melta, pistol (drop pod)
Wolf Guard, combi-melta, ccw (drop pod)
Wolf Guard, power weapon (joins pack 1)
Wolf Guard, power weapon (joins pack 2)
Wolf Guard, combi-flamer (joins pack 3)
Terminator, chain fist (joins pack 4)


Dreadnought, assault cannon/ccw, Wolftooth necklace

Dreadnought, assault cannon/ccw, Wolftooth necklace


Land Speeder, multi-melta

Land Speeder, multi-melta




Pretty much the same thing, really, except you trim back on the Grey Hunters and bring a few more specialists to the table.


1) Packs 1 and 2 move up alone or together – your call, really.

Don’t be shy to shuffle things around if you want (if, for instance, you actually have more guns than the other guy – feel free to stand back and pound him until he’s forced to get into charge range. :D



2) Dreads shuffle up behind/around the Razorbacks. Wolftooth necklaces compensate for the fact that they’re only(!!) WS4.



3) Pack 4 trundles up in company with the Dreads – they’re there to backstop Packs 1 and 2. Or they could just camp, depending on opponent.



4) Pack 3 covers your home base – 2 flamers should be more than enough to sort out any of the usual lightly-armoured infiltrators/outflankers that players seem to love. Razorback keeps ‘em safe from harm. Feel free to deploy their attached Razorback off to one side or the other OR keep them in the Razorback, depending.



5) Wolf Guard terminators either ride a pod down or send the pod down and walk on the table (depending on mission and opponent) – they work fine as kamikaze troops, bait units and/or mobile fire support. Kinda like Long Fangs, only:
a) Twice as expensive
b) More than twice as durable
c) Able to move and fire
d) More than capable of looking after themselves in close combat.



6) Rune Priest either hangs with:
a) Pack 3, where he contributes an extra warm body, beefs ‘em up in close combat and gives them an extra long-range punch, or:
b) Pack 4. Same thing, except they need the warm body/close-combat boost a lot less.
c) Off by his own in a nice bunker or water tower or something.

Wolf Guard terminators either ride a pod down or send the pod down and walk on the table (depending on mission and opponent) – they work fine as kamikaze troops, bait units and/or mobile fire support.

Kinda like Long Fangs, only:
a) Twice as expensive
b) More than twice as durable
c) Able to move and fire
d) More than capable of looking after themselves in close combat.



Feel free to switch things around depending on the opponent, deployment style and mission.

Wanderingroue
11-02-2009, 09:12 AM
one thing i would say is: if you gonna run grey hunters without wolf guard in them, then for heavens sake take somthing with the saga of majesty.. ld 8 really dont cut it for space marines.

Erazoender
11-02-2009, 09:38 AM
Well, the question that begs asking is:

“What constitutes a “Wolfy” flavour to you?”




Rune Priest, Chooser, Terminator Armour
Probably Living Lightning and Tempest’ Wrath –
Lightning is self-explanatory.

Tempest’ Wrath, because its the ability with the best odds of stopping the usual Turn 5 Skimmer Bum Rush. Also useful for slowing down all those pesky fast units buzzing around your Rune Priest, helping compensate for your relative lack of anti-skimmer guns
...


Pack 1 – 5 Grey Hunters, melta gun, Razorback
Pack 2 – 5 Grey Hunters, melta gun, Razorback
Pack 3 – 5 Grey Hunters, flamer, Razorback, t/l lascannon
Pack 4 – 10 Grey Hunters, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen, power weapon, 2 plasma guns


10 Wolf Guard –
Terminator, combi-melta (drop pod)
Terminator, combi-melta, chain fist (drop pod)
Terminator, cyclone (drop pod)
Terminator, cyclone launcher, wolf claw (drop pod)
Wolf Guard, combi-melta, pistol (drop pod)
Wolf Guard, combi-melta, ccw (drop pod)
Wolf Guard, power weapon (joins pack 1)
Wolf Guard, power weapon (joins pack 2)
Wolf Guard, combi-flamer (joins pack 3)
Terminator, chain fist (joins pack 4)


Dreadnought, assault cannon/ccw, Wolftooth necklace

Dreadnought, assault cannon/ccw, Wolftooth necklace


Land Speeder, multi-melta

Land Speeder, multi-melta



See this kind of thing isn't that special. What I'm wanting is a more unique army build; this is similar to the Standard Space Marine build.... I'm wanting something more exotic.

Maybe the Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf combo, if not then certainly a Rune priest or two. I'm quite liking Long Fangs, and I've always been a fan of Vindicators (My previous edition list had two). I'm really interested in trying out Wolf Scouts... but I hear they're not too useful unless you use them properly. I also like going overboard on anti-tank, as I play quite a few tank-heavy lists in my LGW.

Chumbalaya
11-02-2009, 01:03 PM
Well, what's unique to Space Wolves?

Fenrisian Wolves, Thunderwolf mounts, Lone Wolves, Wolf Scouts, Wolf Guard, and Rune Priests. You can build an army out of that, make it look unique and still perform well.

Erazoender
11-02-2009, 07:02 PM
Exactly; I'm wanting an Army that has nice Space Wolf units.

I would certainly want:
- Rune Priest/s
- Long Fangs
- Wolf Scouts

I would love to have:
- Thunderwolf Calvary
- Wolf Lord with Thunderwolf Calvary
- Wolf guard Terminators
- Special Characters

And I don't care about:
- Wolves
- Lone Wolves (well I do, it's just the Elite slot is rarely available)

I do realize I'm asking for too much when I'm so limited... but bare with me here.

What I'm trying to get is an army built around a Grey Hunter core with some hard hitting combat units (Wolf Lord, Thunderwolves, Wolf Guard, Dreadnoughts, etc.) supported by just a bit of heavy firepower so I wont get raped by vehicle lists (Long Fangs, Predators,) and just a graze of exotic things (Wolf Scouts, Rune Priests)

I'm not trying to fit all that in a single 1500 point list, god forbid. I'm just giving examples of each type of unit. But I'm wanting to be a mainly combat list that wont DIE against Vehicle lists.

And no, I don't like Land Speeders.

Confuddled
11-02-2009, 09:31 PM
Ah. Well then, that certainly clears things up a fair bit.

You’d probably do better to concentrate on the Wolf Guard, Fenrisian Wolves (can’t get more Wolfy than that!) and maybe one or two special characters, though.


Trouble with Long Fangs and Wolf Scouts is that they’re fairly specialised units – its not so much how YOU use them as what the other guy brings to the table. For them to work well, you require that the other player field a certain type of army. This is especially so for Wolf Scouts.


So:


1) Trim back on the Grey Hunters – 2-3 5-man Razorback squads should do just fine for your troop choices. Gives you place to put some spare Wolf Guard, maybe packing combi-flamers.

Or stick with 2 back-up squads in Razorbacks, whilst the 3rd full-strength squad gets all the bells and whistles and a Rhino. Trying to field 3 nearly-full-strength squads will REALLY cut into the rest of your army.


2) Canis might be a fun HQ to take – he gives you some Thunderwolf action without breaking the bank (or driving you insane trying to find a convincing Thunderwolf model), but more importantly, he unlocks Fenrisian Wolves as a troop choice.

OR you could just take a Battle Leader on a Wolf – he might not be immune to instant death, but he’s almost as good as a Wolf Lord when it comes to clearing regular infantry, and he’s (relatively!) cheap ,especially compared to aWolf Lord.


3) After that, feel free to spend your points on stuff that can beat the *** out of the other guy.



Off the top of my head, something like this, perhaps?



180-200 point HQ on Thunderwolf (Battle Leader or Canis, your call)

5 Grey Hunters, flamer, Razorback
5 Grey Hunters, flamer, Razorback
10 Grey Hunters, 2 plasma, all the usual upgrades, Rhino,

Dreadnought, Wolftooth Necklace, pod
Dreadnought, Wolftooth Necklace, pod

10 Wolf Guard (at least 6 in Terminator armour , 2 cyclone launchers, 1 chainfist, 2 with combi-flamers attached to the Grey Hunter packs), Drop Pod

9 Fenrisian Wolves with Cyberwolf
9 Fenrisian Wolves with Cyberwolf


Depending on the exact composition of the Wolf Guard squad and your choice of HQ, you’re going to have anywhere from 5 to 100 points to mess around. Could scratch the Battle Leader for a Rune Priest, for instance – he can hang with the Terminators.

Dreadnoughts deploy by pod and either rush to pop smoke or shoot up anything in the vicinity.

Wolf Guard Terminators start on the table and stroll along behind the fast units, lobbing the odd krak missile at any juicy targets on the way. Their pod will come down empty.

Big Grey Hunter pack rushes up in support, accompanied by the Wolves and Wolf Guard.

Smaller Grey Hunter packs bring up the rear (or stay in reserve) and police up the leakers.


Adjust to taste.

Erazoender
11-02-2009, 11:29 PM
I'm not fond of wolves; they're not too great and they don't have readily available models.

As well, it looks like it lacks significant Anti-Tank, or any ranged weapon that can actually help me against a tank heavy list.

Confuddled
11-03-2009, 12:27 AM
As well, it looks like it lacks significant Anti-Tank, or any ranged weapon that can actually help me against a tank heavy list.
Eh?

1) Dreads drop in and shoot up key vehicles and/or run, pop smoke and threaten to smash them up depending on the opponent. Pods also help clutter up his deployment zone, making allowances for scattering.
If he holds his tanks in reserve, so much the better, since he’s going to be coming in dribs and drabs.

2) Wolf Guard get 4 krak missile shots per turn, and they can move and fire, so no wasted shots in the event that you’re playing a Dawn of War mission or you’re forced to displace the unit.

3) The Wolf Guard attached to the “garrison” units have access to combi-meltas if you so choose.

Granted, you don’t really have anything that can threaten a Hammerhead or Fire Prism that comes into play on turn 4 from the opposite end of the table, but if you want an “exotic” list (Thunderwolves) and dislike Landspeeders, you’ve got precious few options when it comes to ranged anti-tank anyway.

Scouts aren’t going to do jack diddly squat to those tanks either (or any tank that actually moves 6”-12” a turn for that matter!). And Living Lightning aside, even Njal is going to have a hard time dealing with that AV12/AV13 skimmer flitting back and forth 40” away…

As for the Fenrisian Wolves, by all means, give them the chop, but there’s not much else you could get for the 160 points, especially if you want a Thunderwolf HQ (for the exotic value) – they’re pretty hardcore, but even Wolf Lords and Battle Leaders need a few ablative wounds tacked on.

The alternative would basically involve a Rune Priest and more Marines of one flavour or another, leaning back in the direction of a standard Marine template (Rhinos and Razorbacks and Rune Priests, oh my!)

Erazoender
11-03-2009, 01:13 AM
I'm seeing your points.

I'm just asking for too much in a list, and I'm aware of that... but anyways. I'm thinking I'll just go with a build similar to the competitive list, and mod it from there.

Damn, I miss the old codex. :(

Confuddled
11-03-2009, 03:19 AM
No kidding – I feel your pain, since I started out with 1500-point games (mostly based around old models) whilst the rest of the army got redone…

That being said, now that the shock has worn off, I find I actually do prefer the current army book – gives me more options.


Trick is balancing that with competitiveness, flavour AND a limited point value – it’s a LOT easier once you hit the 1750-point threshold.


Something else you might want to consider –



Wolf Lord, Thunderwolf, Frost Blade, Belt of Russ, Saga of the Bear
Rune Priest, Chooser of the Slain

3 Wolf Guard
Guard 1 - bike, thunder hammer, combi-melta (a mere 83 points!!)
Guard 2 – combi-melta, power fist, attached to Pack 1
Guard 3 – combi-melta, power fist, attached to Pack 2

Dreadnought, Wolftooth Necklace, Drop Pod

Iron Priest, Thunderwolf, Wolftooth Necklace, 4 cyberwolves

Pack 1: 5 Grey Hunters, melta, power weapon, Razorback

Pack 2: 5 Grey Hunters, melta, power weapon, Razorback

Pack 3: 10 Grey Hunters, 2 plasma, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino

6 bikers, 1 attack bike


Wolf Lord runs with the Iron Priest, splitting up to engage separate targets if necessary.

The horrendously over-priced Wolf Guard rides with the Swiftclaws – their sole purpose is to deliver the Wolf Guard into combat!

Would Thunderwolves be cheaper and more effective? Most probably, but the bikers DO have a few things going for them.
- Consistently faster once you factor in turbo-boosting.
- Possibly as resilient, especially on the first turn.
- No need to worry about being slowed by difficult terrain, though DANGEROUS terrain tests could be an issue

Dreadnought does the drop-shoot/smoke thing.

Packs 1 and 2 move and shoot
Pack 3 camps and shoots (Rune Priest goes here, does his thing with the thunder and lightning…)


Sure, you’re going to suffer a little from the lack of long-ranged anti-tank, but:

a) You get a few more Wolfy units to play with.

b) You get access to some FAST S8/S10 units (the biker Wolf Guard and Iron Priest) who can potentially crack any enemy armour that gets away from the Dreadnought and somehow wanders into range.

Yes yes, he can always move 12”, but:
- If he’s moving 12”, that limits the number of guns the tank can shoot.
- You still have access to SOME ranged anti-tank (3 combi-meltas, 2 meltas on the Grey Hunter packs, Living Lightning, a multi-melta or assault cannon for the Dread).

In a pinch, you could also go with Tempest’s Wrath for the Rune Priest – a 16.7% chance of immobilising any skimmer that stops within range of your Rune Priest (ie an objective) isn’t all that bad…

Granted, getting the power off in the face of Runes of Warding might be tricky, but it works fine against any other skimmers, and its definitely better odds for dealing with pesky tank-shocking Devilfish than shooting at the damn things would be!