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Gotthammer
05-10-2013, 01:44 AM
...but not from who you'd expect! (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/526190.page)



Roughly a week ago a thread was started on Dakka claiming that the owner of the company Resin Forge was none other that Daniel Mandelbaum.

A couple of days ago, I received a Cease & Desist letter sent on behalf of Resin Forge and the owners of the company listed in the letter: Mr. Daniel Mandelbaum, Mr. Jason Martin & Mrs. Kim Hernandez, essentially asking me to stop defaming their clients (which would be both Resin Forge and its owners), claiming that this defamation has led to improper personal information being shared as well as alleged threats of bodily harm up to and including death.

...

While I do not acknowledge that the existence of this previous thread on Dakka constitutes me defaming Resin Forge or its owners, I do believe that the contents of this Cease & Desist letter acknowledging that Daniel Mandelbaum is indeed the owner of Resin Forge essentially makes that previous thread redundant and therefore I have no issues complying with the request to remove that information (and as such the previous thread has since been removed).


Click the link above for the full thread and the text of the C&D.

DrLove42
05-10-2013, 01:46 AM
LOL a thread sets out to prove that a website lots of people have had problems with is a scam and run by someone with a history of running model based scams.

So what does said person do? Release a law suit proving that said scam is in fact being run by him...

Psychosplodge
05-10-2013, 01:55 AM
Didn't the thread simply ask them to confirm who owned it?

Would have probably been cheaper just to answer the thread?

Gotthammer
05-10-2013, 02:09 AM
Nah, the thread was all "this company is run by this guy, and we have proof - but we can't show you this proof - but trust us that we have it! Also this guy is a horrible scammer." Though I haven't really followed the sagas much but I don't think anything has ever been proven in a legally binding sense, just lots of complaints online.

Given claims that the legal company may not in fact be a real company, who knows. Mind you if this company is, as is alleged but not proven, not a real one it would have made sense to leave Mandelbaum's name off of the letter.

Psychosplodge
05-10-2013, 02:14 AM
YAY!
Internet drama...:D

Wolfshade
05-10-2013, 02:33 AM
Isn't their an equivalent of Companies House where all that info is discussed?


Anyway I am going to bycott all resin forge because of this C&D and nerd rage!!!!

Actually, I don't do resin forge, never have done, probably never will but that has nothing to do with the above.

Col.Gravis
05-10-2013, 03:10 AM
Well at least that C&D clarifies who is behind Resin Forge, no way I'd touch them with a barge pole now, Daniel Mandelbaum is bad news, end of story.

OrksOrksOrks
05-10-2013, 03:29 AM
Well, the C&D is about the parts of the thread calling Mandelbaum a scammer and a fraud, but its so well documented and true that he has no grounds for defamation, because you know, its true, they said that Mandelbaum had previously scammed hobbyists out of money in the past, provided sources and evidence of this, its all factual information thats freely available online, he's a scum bag and his involvement with a company means it should be avoided given other people past experiences.

Wolfshade
05-10-2013, 03:51 AM
This is where the problems of C&D arise.
THe reasons why C&D are issued
1. The issuer has a good and valid reason for issuing the C&D
2. The issuer thinks they have a good and valid reason for issuing the C&D
3. The issuer thinks they have a [tenious/potential] reason for issuing the C&D
4. The issuer thinks the issuee will comply

Let us be completely honest, even these bigger boards do not generate signficant profit, and certainly not enough to be able to hire a lawyer to defend, after all the gamble is whether or not the claim is fair comes down to judge and jury, which is expensive and their decisions are not always what you would expect. It is far easier and less damaging to just accept the C&D and carry on.

The trouble is that while 1 & 2 are fair reasons to issue them, they are often seen as 4. i.e. a bully forcing people to do what they want, and consequently most C&D issuers get branded bullies, when they are acting in what they believe to be the fair option.

The strange things happen when a company is forced to issue a C&D because of how the law interacts with other areas of their business.

The community website/forum for Warhammer Online was a huge benefit to the gamers and did a lot of good, unfortunately, the website domain name was a GW registered mark. GW had two options, on the one hand it had a thriving community playing its game, giving feedback and generally building a community (which as far as GW is concerned is very good) on the other it could not allow the use of it's registered mark to go unchalleneged (otherwise a defacto licence would be "granted" making it harder for GW to defend it's mark when used more "maliciously").

White Tiger88
05-10-2013, 04:02 AM
Ok this lawyer stuff is getting silly what is the internet the freaking United states where everyone sues each other for no reason?

Wolfshade
05-10-2013, 04:08 AM
Ok this lawyer stuff is getting silly what is the internet the freaking United states where everyone sues each other for no reason?

I think it's called "Freedom of Speech"...

Mr Mystery
05-10-2013, 04:13 AM
Word up Monkey Farmers! As posted in Wargames Corporate, some useful infos for UK customers who have fallen foul of Mandelbaum (do we reckon he's related to Mandelson?)....

PayPal may say you're out of time, but it ain't necessarily so. Little know fact, PayPal come under the jurisdiction of the Financial Ombudsman Service. Now, it's not an especially straight foward issue, but the FOS are free to consumers, so worth looking into, especially where you opened a dispute with PP, and the other party persuaded you to close it off, then continued to mess you around.

daboarder
05-10-2013, 04:14 AM
I think it's called "Freedom of Speech"...

Yeah that combined with the fact that the information alleged too is accurate, throw in that they have a line of people willing to testify against these idiots, and the fools have potentially opened themselves up to counter litigation....funny silly scamers are funny.

White Tiger88
05-10-2013, 04:16 AM
I think it's called "Freedom of Speech"...


You mean you yank's right to say what ever you want then get sued for it?

Mr Mystery
05-10-2013, 04:27 AM
Yeah that combined with the fact that the information alleged too is accurate, throw in that they have a line of people willing to testify against these idiots, and the fools have potentially opened themselves up to counter litigation....funny silly scamers are funny.

I think it's more the calling them scammers. There's freedom of speech, and then there's libel/slander/defamation (delete as inappropriate/appropriate [delete as appropriate]).

Mandelbaum has a bum rep, but doesn't necessarily mean he's an intentional scammer, more an interwebular 'Cut Me Own Throat Dibbler'.

He's still not getting any of my cashmonies though.

OrksOrksOrks
05-10-2013, 04:29 AM
Hilariously, when you search for the name of the company that issued the C&D (Britcons Ltd, apparently in germany) and the CEO, an M. Duerkop, you only get a few results, all about this one C&D letter, the only Britcon I could find as a UK engineering firm, explaining why its Ltd, not the germat standard GmbH or KG.

Not saying its not real, but, its not likely that the alleged CEO of a legal office in gemany would say they worked for a british enginnering firm and be untraceable on google, hell my real name gets you my facebook, twitter and a whole host of other things, a CEO of a legal firm should get a lot more results.

OrksOrksOrks
05-10-2013, 04:33 AM
I think it's more the calling them scammers. There's freedom of speech, and then there's libel/slander/defamation (delete as inappropriate/appropriate [delete as appropriate]).

Mandelbaum has a bum rep, but doesn't necessarily mean he's an intentional scammer, more an interwebular 'Cut Me Own Throat Dibbler'.

He's still not getting any of my cashmonies though.

The first thread where it came to light, where he failed to fulfil about 10 orders for people over the course of a year and then said he'd sent it out when it hadn't, then claimed his friend would send them but couldn't get tracking numbers, then a few people got their packages from him, even though he'd claimed his friend had sent them months ago and they'd been lost, that I could believe made him an unorganised idiot who messed up and tried to cover his tracks, the fact that over the next 5 years he continues to start business under different names targetting the wargames community and repeatidly gets complaints about orders not being fulfiled and disappears when the heat gets too much it too much to believe is due to general incompetance.

Mr Mystery
05-10-2013, 04:34 AM
Do you reckon we could send one to Warseer?

Dear Sir.

We've had complaints about the noise/signal ratio, and the whining in particular.

Do try to keep the volume and the whining down Sir. Some people are trying to enjoy their hobby.

Yours

The Intertubes Police.

Psychosplodge
05-10-2013, 04:36 AM
but then they might migrate to places we like O_O

OrksOrksOrks
05-10-2013, 04:38 AM
Just called Britcon, to confirm that they don't have a legal office in Germany and are the only Britcon Ltd they know of. They are very confused as to why someone issued a C&D under their name

Psychosplodge
05-10-2013, 04:49 AM
Apparently it's an engineering company in s****horpe.

Mr Mystery
05-10-2013, 04:55 AM
Fourth one down chaps...

http://www.bing.com/search?q=Britcons+Ltd&src=IE-SearchBox&Form=IE8SRC&adlt=strict

Security Enforcement. Apparently. Seems a bit 'Shotgun, Barsteward and Dribble' to me. Either that, or Mr Mandelbaum was looking for the A-Team and settled on this lot.

Or then again perhaps not... (http://business-listings.com/Business/Britcons-Ltd-2231187.html).

Apparently, they travel through time righting wrongs. Check out their year of establishment....

Col.Gravis
05-10-2013, 07:05 AM
Apparently it's an engineering company in s****horpe.

I know that place has a reputation as a bit of a dive, but did it really need censoring ;)

Psychosplodge
05-10-2013, 07:11 AM
well it is a ****hole but apparently the censor doesn't like it...

Wolfshade
05-10-2013, 07:14 AM
well it is a ****hole but apparently the censor doesn't like it...

Doesn't like Ac***** green either...

Col.Gravis
05-10-2013, 07:30 AM
Interesting development, the website of the 'firm' which sent the C&D has disappeared, which has followed from alot of speculation that said firm is at best not a proper business/legal entity and at worse is a front set up purely for the C&D email that was sent lol

DrLove42
05-10-2013, 07:48 AM
His scams are getting more complex....whats the point where scams cross into criminal conspiracy?

Mr Mystery
05-10-2013, 07:54 AM
When you impersonate a Lawyer I guess.

Unless......curiouser and curiouser.....the letter was not sent by Resin Forge at all and is just someone on the wind up.

Think about it. RF are peeved because Dakka claim it's someone dodgy (though Lexicanum on FB say the postal address is a match...). But Dakka won't release the alleged evidence, for reasons which I'm sure are probably to stay on the right side of libel/slandery law things (things what I don't understand personally).

So why then send a blatantly shonky C&D, naming the very people who are apparently being defamed/whatever on it, confirming that Dakka was quite correct, it is a new company set up by someone know for, at the very least, and indeed most charitable description, to be a bit crap when it comes to customer service?

I'm quite enjoying this one!

eldargal
05-10-2013, 07:55 AM
Interesting development, the website of the 'firm' which sent the C&D has disappeared, which has followed from alot of speculation that said firm is at best not a proper business/legal entity and at worse is a front set up purely for the C&D email that was sent lol
Is it just me or is this really dubious, but not in the 'scammer scamming way'? I mean we had a group of people claim ResinForge was owned by this scammer but that they wouldn't produce the evidence. Then apparently this same scammer was stupid enough to give himself away by sending a C&D to Dakkadakka on absurd grounds through a company that may not exist and may have been set up to send a C&D which implicates him.

This whole thing stinks.

For the record I am not defending ResinForge nor have I ever bought anything from them or would ever entertain buying anything from them. I just think this whole thing is rotten.

Mr Mystery
05-10-2013, 07:57 AM
I said the same but wordier just above.

Wordier and probably more confusing.

eldargal
05-10-2013, 07:58 AM
Lern2brevity.:p

Psychosplodge
05-10-2013, 07:59 AM
TL:dr

Mr Mystery
05-10-2013, 08:03 AM
Lern2brevity.:p

No way! It's against my profession!

Col.Gravis
05-10-2013, 08:08 AM
Is it just me...

No, it is'nt just you, My Mystery's thought is'nt outlandish, the same thing had crossed my mind, someone other then RSO could easily have sent Yakface the C&D to stir things up a bit more.

However, I'll add I believe Resin Forge is very much RSO's latest 'venture', I think by far the majority of those who have made the accusations are trustworthy, reliable and have no reason to make any false accusations. And I only say majority to cover myself because some of them are individuals I'm not faimilar with.

Wolfshade
05-10-2013, 08:10 AM
No way! It is against my profession!

Fixed :p

Mr Mystery
05-10-2013, 08:17 AM
Ooooh! Zing!

Now, back on topic.

I mentioned the Lexicanum state the address of the dodgy company and Resin Forge are the same, but have not shown evidence, though to be as accurate as possible, they haven't refused to show the evidence. They just haven't shown it. Which are of course two different things!

OrksOrksOrks
05-10-2013, 08:32 AM
No, it is'nt just you, My Mystery's thought is'nt outlandish, the same thing had crossed my mind, someone other then RSO could easily have sent Yakface the C&D to stir things up a bit more.

However, I'll add I believe Resin Forge is very much RSO's latest 'venture', I think by far the majority of those who have made the accusations are trustworthy, reliable and have no reason to make any false accusations. And I only say majority to cover myself because some of them are individuals I'm not faimilar with.


The sheer number of people complaining and the length of time its been happend would mean as a conspiracy to discredit RSO its extremly eloborate, not ruling it out, but to fakes 50 odd accounts, order things from him and then claim to not get it, and do that over 5 years, thats a lot of time and effort to take him down.
The guy is dodgy as heck, at the very least, he should have learnt after the first time he got caught that he's just not capable of running his own business properly.

Mr Mystery
05-10-2013, 08:46 AM
Nonono Orksorksorks! You've got the wrong end of the stick fella.

It's the C&D we think is a bit....suspicious, not the people saying Resin Forge are bobbins.

Col.Gravis
05-10-2013, 09:07 AM
Nonono Orksorksorks! You've got the wrong end of the stick fella.

It's the C&D we think is a bit....suspicious, not the people saying Resin Forge are bobbins.

Yes, no question about RSO's guilt, nor in my mind that he is behind Resin Forge.

Loken
05-10-2013, 09:11 AM
1) I support what Dakka did in exposing this bozo.

2) They achieved their goal as the C&D stated what they were claiming, that Mandelbaum was Resin Forge. The guy uses multiple aliases it seems.

3) The C&D is a joke, written by some firm in Germany that isn't even clearly a law firm.

4) The guy has ZERO case. Though not an IP attorney, I am a lawyer and can tell you Dakka was pretty good in what they wrote and how they did it.

5) Dakka can't be held responsible for what OTHERS say on their forum. First Amendment and all that.

6) Dakka never should have taken the thread down. Screw Mandelbaum et all.

7) The guy is relegated to ripping off people for resin. You think this guy has the ability to sue anyone?

I would have laughed at the guy and told him to screw off. Sadly, the Dakka Admin isn't incorporated (Bad move) and is worried if he is sued he would lose his house. I say, that is why you incorporate so morons can't threaten you like this and hope to achieve anything. No one sues an empty shell company with no assets!

And if anyone wants to see what Dakka originally posted, it is on my website (I won't be taking it down, even if some guy sends me a C&D as I was reporting news).

Original Article (http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2013/05/resin-forge-fraud-alert.html)

New Article recapping C&D (http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2013/05/resin-forge-sends-c-to-dakka.html)

Alec

OrksOrksOrks
05-10-2013, 09:18 AM
Ah, i see! Well, yeah, that goes without saying!

Mr Mystery
05-10-2013, 09:27 AM
1) I support what Dakka did in exposing this bozo.

2) They achieved their goal as the C&D stated what they were claiming, that Mandelbaum was Resin Forge. The guy uses multiple aliases it seems.

3) The C&D is a joke, written by some firm in Germany that isn't even clearly a law firm.

4) The guy has ZERO case. Though not an IP attorney, I am a lawyer and can tell you Dakka was pretty good in what they wrote and how they did it.

5) Dakka can't be held responsible for what OTHERS say on their forum. First Amendment and all that.

6) Dakka never should have taken the thread down. Screw Mandelbaum et all.

7) The guy is relegated to ripping off people for resin. You think this guy has the ability to sue anyone?

I would have laughed at the guy and told him to screw off. Sadly, the Dakka Admin isn't incorporated (Bad move) and is worried if he is sued he would lose his house. I say, that is why you incorporate so morons can't threaten you like this and hope to achieve anything. No one sues an empty shell company with no assets!

And if anyone wants to see what Dakka originally posted, it is on my website (I won't be taking it down, even if some guy sends me a C&D as I was reporting news).

Original Article (http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2013/05/resin-forge-fraud-alert.html)

New Article recapping C&D (http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2013/05/resin-forge-sends-c-to-dakka.html)

Alec

Incorporated? Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Loken?

Col.Gravis
05-10-2013, 11:41 AM
He means that Yakface, as owner, is liable for any debts incurred by Dakka, including for example if the website was successfully sued. If Dakka was incorporated as a business, i.e. a Limited Company, then while Dakka could still be successfully sued, it would stop there, Yakface's personal assets e.g. his house, would not be at risk.

Probably not the best explanation, but I'm only a beginner myself when it comes to the differences, so if I've got that wrong, someone please do correct me.

Incidently, conspiracy theory over, someone has asked RF about their lawyers on FB, and they confirmed that the 'lawyers' webpage was down, which in turn confirms that RF are behind that C&D. Its all on the RF Store FB page, at least for the moment if anyones interested.

Mr Mystery
05-10-2013, 12:26 PM
Cool. Cheers for the clarification!

Wildeybeast
05-10-2013, 01:22 PM
There was a post down on the Oubilette a week or so ago with someone warning about issues they had with RF, who is a poster on here. One of the points RF made was complaining no one had PM'ed him (her?) to tell him about that thread. I thought I'd get in touch now to tell them about this one and ask them to put their side of the story, but they have chosen not to receive PM's, so that was a waste of time. Here's hoping they see this and put forward their version of event.

GrauGeist
05-10-2013, 04:34 PM
On basic points of law, DakkaDakka is not responsible for non-editorial content, provided they respond to C&D appropriately.

In the US, as long as the allegations are factual or opinion, they are protected speech.

They can do what they like, and confirming the linkage to a known scammer is just fine.

daboarder
05-10-2013, 05:35 PM
Is it just me or is this really dubious, but not in the 'scammer scamming way'? I mean we had a group of people claim ResinForge was owned by this scammer but that they wouldn't produce the evidence. Then apparently this same scammer was stupid enough to give himself away by sending a C&D to Dakkadakka on absurd grounds through a company that may not exist and may have been set up to send a C&D which implicates him.

This whole thing stinks.

For the record I am not defending ResinForge nor have I ever bought anything from them or would ever entertain buying anything from them. I just think this whole thing is rotten.

Normally I would agree with you eldargal, but all these actions do fit redstarones MO, last time he even involved the police when one client threatened to take him to court.

from what I understand, falsifying a C&D in the US is highly illegal? so someone's going to get in the **** for this

Inquisitor S.
05-11-2013, 04:34 AM
Normally I would agree with you eldargal, but all these actions do fit redstarones MO, last time he even involved the police when one client threatened to take him to court.

from what I understand, falsifying a C&D in the US is highly illegal? so someone's going to get in the **** for this

Don't forget that for this assumed Dakka conspiracy they would also have to control Resin Forge's Facebook account on which the owner of Resin Forge pretty much shot himself in the leg - on an hourly basis.

eldargal
05-11-2013, 06:02 AM
Normally I would agree with you eldargal, but all these actions do fit redstarones MO, last time he even involved the police when one client threatened to take him to court.

from what I understand, falsifying a C&D in the US is highly illegal? so someone's going to get in the **** for this
Never said he wasn't, I just thought the whole thing stank. Since I posted that the moron confirmed he was the one who sent the C&D so despite the people on Dakkadakkas best efforst to make themselves look dubious by not sharing evidence they have been proven right by the scammer.:rolleyes:


Don't forget that for this assumed Dakka conspiracy they would also have to control Resin Forge's Facebook account on which the owner of Resin Forge pretty much shot himself in the leg - on an hourly basis.
The 'conspiracy' was not assumed, it was considered a plausible possibility given how stupid and convenient it was for the RF=Scammer argument. Since then the idiot has confirmed it all via Facebook as you indicate. In other words the assumed conspiracy didn't require control of the Facebook account, because the Facebook account wasn't involved at the time. Timelines are important.

Inquisitor S.
05-11-2013, 06:44 AM
In other words the assumed conspiracy didn't require control of the Facebook account, because the Facebook account wasn't involved at the time. Timelines are important.

Timelines are indeed important. Most of the statements went via Resin Forge's Facebook account BEFORE the whole thing with the C&D letter came up. Believe me, we were first line on the Facebook thing, from there the quotes and screenshots went directly to the now removed original warning thread about Resin Forge on dakkadakka.

And then he confirmed on his Facebook page that he had his "legal representation" send the C&D letter fo dakka. This means that
a) either the Facebook account of Resin Forge would have had to be set up by dakka members long before the warning and they were all the time just pretending to interact with Resin Forge's customers and taking order for him (!?)
or
b) that Resin Forge's Facebook account was hijacked at some point by dakka members who continue to publish really silly statements in order to ruin Resin Forge.

As you said: timeline points are really iportant ;)

Mr Mystery
05-11-2013, 06:50 AM
I'm finding myself agreeing with Lexicanum... This guy does not seem to have all his marbles... He's seeming more and more like a fantasist the more I read.

eldargal
05-11-2013, 07:02 AM
Timelines are indeed important. Most of the statements went via Resin Forge's Facebook account BEFORE the whole thing with the C&D letter came up. Believe me, we were first line on the Facebook thing, from there the quotes and screenshots went directly to the now removed original warning thread about Resin Forge on dakkadakka.

And then he confirmed on his Facebook page that he had his "legal representation" send the C&D letter fo dakka. This means that
a) either the Facebook account of Resin Forge would have had to be set up by dakka members long before the warning and they were all the time just pretending to interact with Resin Forge's customers and taking order for him (!?)
or
b) that Resin Forge's Facebook account was hijacked at some point by dakka members who continue to publish really silly statements in order to ruin Resin Forge.

As you said: timeline points are really iportant ;)
What are you talking about? I'm referring to the possibility that the C&D was sent by someone else which was voiced BEFORE he confirmed it was sent on his behalf on Facebook, that is all. Now we know he did send it and is thus a complete moron as well as scammer.

DarkLink
05-11-2013, 11:18 PM
from what I understand, falsifying a C&D in the US is highly illegal? so someone's going to get in the **** for this

I'm not a lawyer, but basically it's a violation of the 1st Amendment and it can backfire bigtime on the accuser. Thing is, you need the resources to go to court in the first place (such a pro bono help), so internet thugs still throw threats around because a lot of people buckle even when they'd win. Popehat (http://www.popehat.com/) covers this stuff all the time, and they're lawyers that specialize in this.

Edit: Here's an example: http://www.popehat.com/2013/05/05/popehat-signal-seeking-help-in-a-troublesome-massachusetts-defamation-case/

Edit: In fact, here's the list of related articles (SLAPP is an acronym for laws that protect the little guy in cases like this, more or less): http://www.popehat.com/tag/slapp/

Mr Mystery
05-12-2013, 02:28 AM
Have we had anymore nonsense out of Resin Forge?

Just had a look at the feedback on their website..... Seems a tad.....gushing...

Inquisitor S.
05-12-2013, 03:10 AM
Have we had anymore nonsense out of Resin Forge?

Not a lot, he keeps quiet for most of the time. Still has problems answering questions with yes or no though as here on if or if not he/ they will attend the HH weekender:
http://i.imgur.com/HCzPxEG.jpg

Mr Mystery
05-12-2013, 03:17 AM
Indeed....

Sucks to be RF, as its looking likely the event stuff is going to be strictly one per, at least on the first day.

I can predict numerous orders will not in fact be fulfilled....

Gotthammer
05-12-2013, 03:38 AM
The demanding to know if he's going to be there is pretty creepy/stalkerish/given the personal harassment he's received kinda threatening. Hardly blame him for dodging that one.

Inquisitor S.
05-12-2013, 03:47 AM
So Resin Forge now has a "Jason" speaking for them, LONG and confusing text ahead, you were warned



"The following is an exchange between myself and 'Jason' this morning.

Please note that while 'Jason' asks for this to remain private, I make no such agreement.


07:25
Resin Forge Store
It really is a shame there hasn't been time to get to you sooner. First these initial talks, will be private. While you do have the right to share them, I would ask you keep them to yourself for the time being. Second, if you would say, make a list of questions, clear cut, no confusion where some reader may read one thing and another reads something else. Words need to be clear which you generally have down pat. *Kudos!
Its also a shame you are in the UK so calling our customer service line was set up for this sort of PR. We simply have very little time, withe event coming up and all this drama the service line was set up so anyone with questions, complaints or whatever can get a hold of a rep and get a quick answer or resolution.
But in light of you wanting "help" us which to be blunt, seems your right now leaning a certain way but its impossible to see your real motivations. Please do not take that as an offensive remark!
You send your questions here, they will then be passed along right to our PR person on Monday when he arrives in. Hes closed for the weekend. (*His hours are Monday - Saturday, 9AM - 9PM US CENTRAL timezone.*)
I'm sure at that point, we will answer as many of your questions as possible.

07:35
Art Darryl Steventon
So there's a PR person?
Are you incapable of answering direct, straight questions yourself?
To whom am I speaking now?
For clarity - I have no affiliation to any fora, website or blog - whilst I am active on the UK communities through various other avenues, and as such, I take great interest in any suspect behaviour, either from retailers or fora.
Right now, your side of the arguments look increasingly weaker and weaker.
The failure to answer questions that have been directly put to you and to then hide behind 'my PR person' is just adding to that perception.

07:41
Art Darryl Steventon
Please note: I shall not get into protracted conversations with faceless identities - please provide a name to which I can refer.

07:41
Resin Forge Store
First, i am not the PR person. That is the person who can be reached 12 hours a day 6 days a week. I will not reply to questions that I either don't know the answer to or simply cant help with a 100% response. My job here is to simply keep customer updated and this update is in regards to claims we are not going to HH. it seems pretty clear to us and gives anyone reading the post can then make up their own mind on if they trust us enough to wait or if they just want their money back. Its a win win for the customer.\

07:43
Art Darryl Steventon
To whom am I speaking now?

07:44
Resin Forge Store
Already a trick question because ive seen areas you post, and no matter what owners name i give, you will not believe it. Correct?
But to be fare.
Im jason, nice to meet you.
And for anyone to say im not real, follow this link to a resolved customer who talked to both me and another owner.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/523568.page
Specifically this quote:

07:46
Resin Forge Store
I spoke with 2, both men. Jason and Daniel.
Daniel (I believe, was the original owner that called me and wasnt very polite). From then on I spoke with Jason multiple times, he was always great and always ready to listen to what I had to say. Today, the final call was with Daniel. He apologized for the way he reacted when he originally called.
I liked the fact that he was the one calling to close it off, and not go into hide and avoiding what had happened.

07:46
Resin Forge Store
Now to your next question, each of the 3 owners has a 33.3% share.
One money, very queazy.
moment DAMN AUTOCORRECT

07:48
Art Darryl Steventon
Now we're getting somewhere.
I had seen that quote previously, and yes, it does say that the issue was resolved. After three months?
Whilst it was resolved, not exactly speedy was it?
Though, kudos - you did resolve it.
Now, do you care to answer the other questions?
If you can answer nr.1 the others all roll on from there.

07:50
Resin Forge Store
Contact him.

07:50
Art Darryl Steventon
Contact who?

07:52
Resin Forge Store
His item was ordered, shipped a few days late, got to tracking went to Chicago, then stopped updating. We contacted him, Daniel was rough, I was polite, he calmed down and we worked out 100 that very friday and 100 this friday (yesterday). We had proof we shipped. But we felt he shouldn't be out anything and we used it as a learning curve so that now, we ship registered with insurance.

07:52
Resin Forge Store
He can vouche the story
As im not the PR ill answer as many as I personally can before it will be pushed straight to the PR phone line.

07:52
Art Darryl Steventon
Noted and acknowledged.As you obviously read Dakka, care to comment on user 'Aerethan's comments?
Will he, as previously intimated by the RF site, be receiving a refund for monies previously paid?

07:54
Resin Forge Store
My understand of that guy is simple. Hes not a customer, will never be one so why is he owed a refund? And what would said refund be for exactly?

07:56
Art Darryl Steventon
I refer you to the previous comments made on your page 'anybody owed money by Daniel should contact us' - he alleges he has made contact by email.
Are you denying he is owed any money, by Mr Mandelbraum for any previously unfulfilled orders from previous organisations he was involved in?

07:58
Resin Forge Store
I am flat out denying he ever sent an email and infact only called out hotline once asking for eric before hanging up. Ask him to send the email both resin forge and yourself and watch his lie collapse.
Ask him to send the email with a BCC to you or something.

08:01
Art Darryl Steventon
Noted and acknowledged.
Moving on;
Why, given that your registered address is Texas based, did you retain a Germany based security company to issue the C&D to www.dakkadakka.com?
And are you still maintaining that due to the efforts of 'Lexicanum' their website was then taken down shortly after?
Do you have any comment on the (very brief) investigations carried out by various users on Www.dakkadakka.com regarding their bone fides?

08:06
Resin Forge Store
Yes we did retain the company. We have pages and pages of conversations with the CEo as well as a paypal payment sent and then when it was accepted by him. Same name on his paypal account as was on the C&D. Any other talk about them goes to the PR person.
Lex posted a comment which here is the cap oh which leads us to think he did based on his own words and how easy it was after someone asked why the site is gone. Need the screen cap?
And the last one also goes to the PR person.
If you are UK, we can give you a calling card number to you so you pay nothing. Then you could actually call customer service and get the questions you answered right away. I do apologize, PR isnt my job in RF

08:11
Art Darryl Steventon
No, given that I prefer to be able to refer back to conversations verbatim if so required under legal duress I would prefer to keep all contact text only.
I'm sure you'll appreciate that.
It boils down to protecting both you and I from any comments being taken out of context at a later date by either yourself, myself or any third parties who may be able to access said conversations.

08:12
Resin Forge Store
Your choic
e

08:12
Art Darryl Steventon
Thank you for understanding.

08:12
Resin Forge Store
Just understand PR is not my job here with RF and just talking with you is a no no since now have a real PR person helping out.
its 215 here and im very tired, we can continue more tomorrowif you would like

08:13
Art Darryl Steventon
And just so I can refer to them correctly, what should I call the PR person? What is their name?


At that point the conversation finished with no further replies.

So, Resin Forge are now employing a 'PR' person, who will deal with all enquiries. "

Mr Mystery
05-12-2013, 03:49 AM
The insistence is a bit....strong.

However the question is pertinent. RF claim they will have stock from a limited, ticketed event several hundred (thousand? My geography is bobbins) miles from their established location. They also have a poor reputation for fulfilling orders. Seems very scammy to me!

Edity bit...

PR person? Why not just have everyone trained in customer service? PR suggests managed spin, rather than straight answers. I work in customer service for a dispute resolution service. We don't flim flam people. We don't pass the buck. Although our impartial mandate means I can't give advice, I can give facts. To my mind, impartiality aside, that is the minimum standard for customer service. Answer the question, whether or not the customer will find the answer palatable.

Inquisitor S.
05-12-2013, 04:28 AM
RF claim they will have stock from a limited, ticketed event several hundred (thousand? My geography is bobbins) miles from their established location.

They don't have an "established" location, we had to drag that info out with nails and teeth. He's in Dallas, Texas.

And the distance from tehre to Nottingham is "Distance is 7526 kilometers or 4677 miles (theoretical air distance)". So just around the corner ;)

Inquisitor S.
05-12-2013, 04:44 AM
On the subject of Resin Forge's "Jason" a statement by Aetheran from dakkadakka:


"I've already shown that Daniel calls people as "Jason". My boss was called by "Jason", who acted desperate, frantic, and paranoid and was calling from Michael Mandelbaums phone and left it as a call back number.

I also have emails proving that it was Resin Forge that called me, and that Daniel is the person who called, as there are no police reports under the name "Jason Martin" from this month, but there is the one from Daniel on the 6th just moments after he called my office.


My only involvement in this was a single comment on RF's facebook page stating that RF was a scam and that I guaranteed the orders were being filled from Texas if they were being filled at all. Facebook is how my company info was found(which has been corrected). "Jason" claimed to have gotten my company's IP address from either the comment on FB, or from the Dakka thread, neither of which he would have had access to as FB and Dakka do not make IPA's public. Nevermind that the FB comment I made from home on a Sunday.

Daniel is the one who made this personal with me. He could have just deleted my comment and moved on, but instead he reacted like a child and tried to wreck my personal life while hiding behind feigned anonymity."

Kirsten
05-12-2013, 06:14 AM
given that they are just supposed to be a resin bits selling company why have a PR person at all? three owners should be more than enough to handle everything they could face I am sure, they can't be in that big demand.

Mr Mystery
05-12-2013, 06:16 AM
Yup. Can't be that hard work to pick bits, and ship them out.

Kirsten
05-12-2013, 06:29 AM
apparently it is :rolleyes:

Mr Mystery
05-12-2013, 06:36 AM
Though I guess not having the bits in stock makes things harder...

The Girl
05-12-2013, 04:54 PM
5) Dakka can't be held responsible for what OTHERS say on their forum. First Amendment and all that.

First amendment rights don't apply to private forums; nor does it protect service providers in any way, shape, or form from litigation. What actually does apply to cases like this: 47 U.S.C. § 230 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/230) - the section of the Communications Decency Act that guards service providers from litigation due to content posted by its users.

Note: this post only expresses my views, it does not represent those of BoLS Interactive LLC.

DarkLink
05-12-2013, 06:16 PM
From my understanding, that's not quite true. Mods on a private forum can ban people and such as they see fit without worrying about the First Amendment, you're absolutely correct there. But you can't sue either the forum or the individuals on the forum for speech protected under the First Amendment. So if someone says something that is true, or is a matter of opinion, there's no legal ground for a Cease and Desist barring extenuating circumstances.

The Girl
05-13-2013, 04:33 PM
I agree. However, that was not what my response was about. Message boards are great at mucking things up, and in a re-read I wasn't clear... let me try this again in a different way.

I took the post I responded to to mean: Dakka cannot be held responsible for what their users do on the site because of the first amendment. This isn't accurate. The amendment protects the user's speech and Dakka's speech; the amendment does not specify whether or not the service provider is responsible for the user's speech because it provides a platform for it... what separates legal responsibility is 47 U.S.C. § 230. It gives a certain amount of immunity [it does not cover IP law or federal criminal accountability] to service providers if their users decide to do something illegal while using their service. Section (c)(1) states:

"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider."

This legislation is specific to the internet, and it is vital to sites that give users a platform to express themselves. Heck, 230 was updated by executive order in February to deal with libel claims.

Does that make more sense?


Note: this post only expresses my views, it does not represent those of BoLS Interactive LLC.

Mr Mystery
05-16-2013, 12:07 PM
So, any more drivel out of Resin Forge?

Mr Mystery
05-18-2013, 08:00 AM
At the HH Weekender....

Bad news for those who pre-ordered well, anything from the weekend. It's all one per person! Your ticket is scribbled on to show what you've bought.

So that's pretty much all 'pre-orders' not being fulfilled. Unless they are indeed recasting....

Mr Mystery
10-09-2013, 06:13 AM
And it drags on!!!

Black Crusade Studio, outed as yet another Mandelbaum front, but this time selling 3D prints, the creator of which has publically stated have never been shared with anyone, and are kept purely private.

Really starting to think Mr Mandelbaum may be suffering from a mental illness. This is not a crude joke. This is a genuine concern.

daboarder
10-10-2013, 06:32 AM
And it drags on!!!

Black Crusade Studio, outed as yet another Mandelbaum front, but this time selling 3D prints, the creator of which has publically stated have never been shared with anyone, and are kept purely private.

Really starting to think Mr Mandelbaum may be suffering from a mental illness. This is not a crude joke. This is a genuine concern.

Why has this dickhead not been locked up. I mean the personal threats he has issued to people alone should be enough to put the idiot in gaol.

Mr Mystery
10-15-2013, 06:55 AM
No idea.

Maybe he is locked up in a secure ward somewhere. I hope for his sake he is. Again, really, genuinely not meaning to use serious conditions for comedy effect. I am genuinely worried Mr Mandelbaum is mentally ill.

Because if he is, then the open (and ultimately justified) hostility from the wbe community won't be helping him get any better :(