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TheMightyWarhamster
11-09-2009, 08:09 AM
Hi guys, first post. :)
This is my first really themed/restricted army. I'm going for: only Dreadnoughts and guys wearing tactical dreadnought armour, all in Drop Pods.
Just saying because i'm really looking for creative input, just not the "needs moar landspeeders" kind.

HQ
Logan Grimnar
275

Rune Priest
Terminator Armor
Chooser oft he Slain
130

Wolf Priest
Terminator Armor
120

Troops
Wolf Guard x5
Terminator Armor x5
Chainfist
Combi Melta x5
Drop Pod
240

Wolf Guard x4
Terminator Armor x4
Chainfist
Wolf Claw x3
Storm Shield x2
Combi Melta x2
Drop Pod
(drops with the wolf priest)
237

Wolf Guard x5
Terminator Armor x5
Chainfist
Cyclone Missile
Drop Pod
245

Wolf Guard x5
Terminator Armor x5
Chainfist
Cyclone Missile
Drop Pod
245

Wolf Guard x3
Terminator Armor x3
Wolf Claw x2
Chainfist
Storm Shield x3
Drop Pod
(drops with logan and the psyker)
204


Elite
Dreadnought (MM)
Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod
150

Dreadnought (MM)
Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod
150


1996

deployment:
The chooser denies infiltration on one or more objectives in my DZ.
First wave is the two dreads and the combimeltasquad, deployed right into the middle of his line, preferably close to land raiders etc. Depending on the enemy's setup, i'll either drop logan with the psyker and his choppy squad alongside the rest, or drop one of the cclone squads on an objective.
if he plays dirty and also starts with an empty board, i'll drop the other half first onto objectives.

now this is only a first draft, i'm thinking about maybe dropping the wolf priest and some equip for a third dread and i generally want input on loadouts and composition.
thanks a lot

eagleboy7259
11-09-2009, 03:31 PM
Umm... trying creative input and not criticism here... why did you choose Drop Pod Loganwing? And are you up a little convincing to change your mind?

http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-10-23T00:17:00-04:00&max-results=4

Just a little blog spot action from "From the Warp" by a championship Deathwing player looking in on the new Loganwing. For my money there are a few small differences between the two lists that could really help you out:

-Loganwing forces you to tie up close to 1/4 of your points at this level in three models, Belial and any other character (GK GM, DA Libby, DA Chappy) will show up at about half that cost, important when your basic troops cost so dang much, and with so few that could get you another squad.
-The Dark Angels's Land Raiders with the old smoke launcher rules and POTMS are the most capable of getting your Assault Termies into assault w/ any loses.
-If you use GK GM for your second HQ, he can take a GK LRC with the old smoke launchers and NEW POTMS as a transport. Giving you a hood, S6 I5 classic style force weapon and if you choose to take it Emperor's Taroit helping you go first consistantly. Which is of good benefit to deploy your smoke launchers on turn 1.
-If you choose not to use any Land Raider than Deathwing Assault lets you deepstrike half your Terminators (rounding up) on the first turn and doesn't require you to buy all those pods.
-Equipment and ability wise Wolf Guard are better, but there are only 25 infantry in your whole army. With Deathwing thats an extra, Land Raider, or pair of Dreads.

Sorry for the Deathwing Advocacy Letter but theme wise, and somewhat tactic wise it just makes more sense (to me atleast)

DarkLink
11-09-2009, 03:42 PM
Good job keeping the Terminator squads nice and cheap, and giving them specific roles. You have a couple shooty ones, and a couple cc/short ranged ones. You might want to get a few combi-flamers in there for anti-horde work, since Terminators get swarmed really easily.

However, you have a lot of points tied up in HQ's. Logan is expensive himself, and taking another 250pts on top of that? Keep Logan, obviously, but use those 250pts to get another Dreadnought or Terminator squad.

TheMightyWarhamster
11-09-2009, 05:19 PM
Thanks for the input. :)

Umm... trying creative input and not criticism here... why did you choose Drop Pod Loganwing? And are you up a little convincing to change your mind?

i chose podding loganwing because
- i already have a balanced mech/foot army (guard) and a footslogger army (nids) and want to try something different
- i think the idea of podding termies is sound, 35 points give me deployable cover and no DS mishaps (which suck, if you have less than 30 dudes.)
- i already have most models i need (just short some pods)
- last but not least, i really look forward to converting an army of completely individual models, which works really well on the large 40mm ased termies.
as to convincing... maybe.



-Loganwing forces you to tie up close to 1/4 of your points at this level in three models, Belial and any other character (GK GM, DA Libby, DA Chappy) will show up at about half that cost, important when your basic troops cost so dang much, and with so few that could get you another squad.
-The Dark Angels's Land Raiders with the old smoke launcher rules and POTMS are the most capable of getting your Assault Termies into assault w/ any loses.
-If you use GK GM for your second HQ, he can take a GK LRC with the old smoke launchers and NEW POTMS as a transport. Giving you a hood, S6 I5 classic style force weapon and if you choose to take it Emperor's Taroit helping you go first consistantly. Which is of good benefit to deploy your smoke launchers on turn 1.
-If you choose not to use any Land Raider than Deathwing Assault lets you deepstrike half your Terminators (rounding up) on the first turn and doesn't require you to buy all those pods.
-Equipment and ability wise Wolf Guard are better, but there are only 25 infantry in your whole army. With Deathwing thats an extra, Land Raider, or pair of Dreads.

Sorry for the Deathwing Advocacy Letter but theme wise, and somewhat tactic wise it just makes more sense (to me atleast)

well, i *asked* for creative input, so no need to apologize. ;)
i read through the linked article and i agree with you, partially. for mech 'wing, DA give a slight edge, but for deep striking terminators, i have mostly taken pods anyway, for reasons outlined above.
the allied GK GM really gave me an idea, though. i'll run some numbers on him, but at first glance, he is clocks in at a lot more points than a similar rune priest. also sadly, the tarot is inquisitors only.
i guess i'll sketch out a similar list using the DA codex, but a basic DA termi squad with cyclone and chainfist comes in only 5 points cheaper than a WGT squad who have the advantage of p-weapons against faster models and have counter attack, atsknf and acute senses instead of fearless (which is a mixed blessing in an elite army).

@DarkLink:
thanks. :) you are right, i have hell of a lot of points in HQ, but with the present loadout or small variations thereof, i was left with ~90 points at the end (which bought the wolfpriest) - not enough for either a dread or another squad, but too much to put into only equip. i could drop the WP and get a lone wolf with two doggies, shield + a nasty CCW for 100 pts, putting the rest into combi flamers, tho.

eagleboy7259
11-09-2009, 07:23 PM
- last but not least, i really look forward to converting an army of completely individual models, which works really well on the large 40mm ased termies.
as to convincing... maybe.

I completely feel you. After painting, well starting atleast, gaunt upon gaunt in my tyranids being able to lavish enough time on a handful of models without having to say "it's good enough" because my hands are just killing me is like heaven to the painter/gamer. Anyway heres a little bit of inspiration if you're interested :D

http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2009/06/my-lustwing-army.html

http://www.the-vanus-temple.com/?page_id=18

Chumbalaya
11-09-2009, 08:26 PM
Umm... trying creative input and not criticism here... why did you choose Drop Pod Loganwing? And are you up a little convincing to change your mind?

http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-10-23T00:17:00-04:00&max-results=4

Yeah, Loganwing are simply better than Deathwing. Unless you're doing a Doublewing or incorporating mech Greenwing elements, there is no purpose to running a DW army. I still do it out of some obscure sense of masochism, but I'm weird like that.


-Loganwing forces you to tie up close to 1/4 of your points at this level in three models, Belial and any other character (GK GM, DA Libby, DA Chappy) will show up at about half that cost, important when your basic troops cost so dang much, and with so few that could get you another squad.

Logan is worth his points, he's awesome. Rune Priests offer superior psychic powers and defense for cheaper. WGT individually are cheaper than DWT and don't suffer from Fearless, plus you can kit them individually and run variable squad sizes. Also they have storm shields that work :P


-The Dark Angels's Land Raiders with the old smoke launcher rules and POTMS are the most capable of getting your Assault Termies into assault w/ any loses.

In a Dropwing, this means zilcho. DA have better smokes, SW have better PotMS and everything else.


-If you use GK GM for your second HQ, he can take a GK LRC with the old smoke launchers and NEW POTMS as a transport. Giving you a hood, S6 I5 classic style force weapon and if you choose to take it Emperor's Taroit helping you go first consistantly. Which is of good benefit to deploy your smoke launchers on turn 1.

For how much?


-If you choose not to use any Land Raider than Deathwing Assault lets you deepstrike half your Terminators (rounding up) on the first turn and doesn't require you to buy all those pods.

Yes, Deep Strike your Terminators, brilliant. No.


-Equipment and ability wise Wolf Guard are better, but there are only 25 infantry in your whole army. With Deathwing thats an extra, Land Raider, or pair of Dreads.

Err, what? DW are more expensive and worse in pretty much every way.


Sorry for the Deathwing Advocacy Letter but theme wise, and somewhat tactic wise it just makes more sense (to me atleast)

Trust me, I wish Deathwing didn't suck either, or that DA players got collectively kicked in the balls by giving our rivals the same build only better (plus our formerly unique Dread variant), but deluding yourself isn't going to help anything.

As for the OP, all Drop armies are risky. Since Termies are relentless it kinda mitigates the problems with most DP armies (faster enemies starting in reserve and using their mobility to pick you apart from range), and they're pretty cheap.

All that gear though is kinda hurting you. WGT need to be cheap so you can fit more. A single wolf claw here and there and most of your points put into heavy weapons and the odd chainfist.

You might want to try something like this:
Logan
RP w/ Termie Armor, Chooser, Living Lightning, Tempest Fury
RP w/ Termie Armor, Chooser, Living Lightning, Jaws of the World Wolf
3x 5 WGT-cyclone, chainfist, Drop Pod
2x 4 WGT-3 combi-meltas, chainfist, Drop Pod
4 WGT-4 combi-plasmas, Drop Pod
3 WGT-3 combi-meltas, Drop Pod

Weighs in at 2000 even. You have 7 Pods, Logan and the Priests go with the 4 man teams (Logan goes with combi-plas for potentially 8 S8 shots against a vehicle if need be). You always want to go 2nd so you can see how you opponent deploys. If he deploys on the table and you are able to alpha strike him then drop the meltas and nuke his armor. Once they go down you will have a much easier time dealing with the remnants. Otherwise, drop the 5 man teams and the Tempest Fury Priest prepared for the inevitable counter attack, the Priest's power very mean to anything trying to run circles around you. With the Choosers you can limit the enemy's control over your deployment, stick them in prime DS spots so your enemy cannot clog them with infiltrators or block flanks so he cannot outflank after you.

Like any DP army it has its risks, but with this flexibility and the neat little powers you have at your disposal, you can do quite well.

eagleboy7259
11-09-2009, 11:13 PM
Yes, Deep Strike your Terminators, brilliant. No.

Question: Isn't that the entire theme of this list? How is Podding better than Teleporting?


DA have better smokes, SW have better PotMS and everything else.

As in Deathwing, you have what in a 1500pt army 15 men running around the field and 2 LRC's? I will take better smokes in this instance, if it means I can get 24" out of the tank with a GUANTEE that it can't be more than shaken or stunned. GK LRC weighs in at just 8pts more and has the benefit of both assuming he takes the 145pt GK GM


Logan is worth his points, he's awesome.

If you are playing at a points level that can really handle 275+ additional HQ's and still give you enough points to put something in the list. I play 1500pt, I gave Loganwing a run through just for ****'s and giggles, if you are playing at a low enough points level then I still believe that DW has some kind of an edge on Loganwing.


-Equipment and ability wise Wolf Guard are better, but there are only 25 infantry in your whole army. With Deathwing thats an extra, Land Raider, or pair of Dreads.


Err, what? DW are more expensive and worse in pretty much every way.

My Point #1
-Loganwing forces you to tie up close to 1/4 of your points at this level in three models, Belial and any other character (GK GM, DA Libby, DA Chappy) will show up at about half that cost, important when your basic troops cost so dang much, and with so few that could get you another squad.

30 Terminators beats 25 Terminators? well it is SW so maybe not...

Chumbalaya
11-10-2009, 06:24 AM
Question: Isn't that the entire theme of this list? How is Podding better than Teleporting?

Not being in "please pie plate me" formation is a big one, as is providing yourself cover from the Pod.


As in Deathwing, you have what in a 1500pt army 15 men running around the field and 2 LRC's? I will take better smokes in this instance, if it means I can get 24" out of the tank with a GUANTEE that it can't be more than shaken or stunned. GK LRC weighs in at just 8pts more and has the benefit of both assuming he takes the 145pt GK GM

If you want assault termies, you should play Vanilla, DW don't do it very well (poor Storm Shields and limited squad sizes hurt a lot).


If you are playing at a points level that can really handle 275+ additional HQ's and still give you enough points to put something in the list. I play 1500pt, I gave Loganwing a run through just for ****'s and giggles, if you are playing at a low enough points level then I still believe that DW has some kind of an edge on Loganwing.

I'll give you that, I don't play 1500 typically so Logan fits in just fine.


30 Terminators beats 25 Terminators? well it is SW so maybe not...

If those Terminators have better gear, more bodies, and superior characters they stand a good chance of pulling out ahead.

eagleboy7259
11-10-2009, 12:09 PM
If you want assault termies, you should play Vanilla, DW don't do it very well (poor Storm Shields and limited squad sizes hurt a lot).

And my troop choices will come from where...?


If those Terminators have better gear, more bodies, and superior characters they stand a good chance of pulling out ahead.

Space Wolves = Less bodies, better characters(?) Deathwing = More bodies, lesser characters(?) I guess that really depends on your definition of what makes up a good character. Logans got some great abilities but he's not really that much better when you put him into assault than Belial is. I don't really believe that Rune Priests and Wolf priests are that much better than either the Interrogator Chaplain giving my Assault Terminators re-rolls to hit in addition to wounding, I5 power weapon, and he's got +1 attack from the banner or GK GM saying "Eternal Warrior? what's Eternal Warrior?"

DarkLink
11-10-2009, 12:43 PM
If you take GKT's, you MUST put them in a Land Raider. If you deepstrike them, they will die and accomplish almost nothing.

However, if you stick them in a Land Raider, they are one of the hardest hitting units in the game. Plus, a GKGM with a retinue cannot be singled out in CC. You're opponent must go through the whole GKT squad first.

GKGM, 4 GKT's, and 2 Incinerators costs 364pts. It will kill almost anything in the game, from Ork Hordes to CSM squads. Just avoid Walkers, and stuff with really high Initiative like Genestealers or a Keeper of Secrets.
You must, however, put that unit in a Land Raider to ensure that it gets where it is going. If you don't have a Land Raider to put them in, then DO NOT TAKE THEM.







And something to point out, GKT's CANNOT take a Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport. You will need to use a Space Wolves Land Raider.

Chumbalaya
11-10-2009, 12:49 PM
And my troop choices will come from where...?

Scouts, Tacs, they're pretty cheap.


Space Wolves = Less bodies, better characters(?) Deathwing = More bodies, lesser characters(?) I guess that really depends on your definition of what makes up a good character. Logans got some great abilities but he's not really that much better when you put him into assault than Belial is. I don't really believe that Rune Priests and Wolf priests are that much better than either the Interrogator Chaplain giving my Assault Terminators re-rolls to hit in addition to wounding, I5 power weapon, and he's got +1 attack from the banner or GK GM saying "Eternal Warrior? what's Eternal Warrior?"

A WGT is 10 points cheaper than a DWT, tricking them out is stupid. Logan has a better weapon, WS6, Eternal Warrior and buffs his army. Rune Priests are the best non-SC HQ wolves have, just like ICs for DA. It doesn't make up for the entire army being overcosted with inferior gear. Wolves can field a GKGM too.

eagleboy7259
11-10-2009, 07:20 PM
Scouts, Tacs, they're pretty cheap.

And I should paint everything yellow and use Lysander right? :p

It kind of defeats the purpose of being a Deathwing player and wanting that elite Terminator appeal to say well I'm just another Imperial Fists kind of guy

Creative Carnage
11-11-2009, 03:03 AM
I realize that your initial post indicated that you wanted to go strictly with Dreads and Termies... have you considered keeping the Logan/Wolf Guard/Dread/Pod theme but with a mix of Terminator and Power Armor for your Wolf Guard? For the cost of upgrading to Terminator Armor you can almost get another Wolf Guard.