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AsgeirArnald
08-01-2009, 01:02 PM
I have a Chaos Sorcerer with Warptime that I attach to a squad of marines. In the CSM Codex it reads-

Warptime
This power is used at the start of any player's turn. If successful, the psyker may re-roll all rolls to hit and rolls to wound for the entirety of that player's turn.

I thought this meant that just the sorcerer could re-roll, but one of my friends is convinced that it allows the entire squad to re-roll. Any thoughts/help would be very much appreciated!

Arschbombe
08-01-2009, 01:06 PM
Since when does "the psyker" mean "the psyker plus any unit he's attached to" ?

AsgeirArnald
08-01-2009, 01:12 PM
That's what I thought but I've heard other people talk about this too and never heard anyone resolve the argument. I only re-roll for the sorcerer, just wanted to know if anybody else has seen or does differently.

ebolus
08-01-2009, 01:37 PM
It is no doubt those "other people" have misinterpreted the rule. The text in italic in the rule description on page 88 also states that "...the opportunity to place his attacks with supernatural precision."

Imagine the bargain when attached to a large squad of berserkers, plague marines or terminators.

I think Warptime is really worth 25 points on Daemon Princes, sorcerors or whatever. My two nurgle daemon princes with wings and warp time are absolutely killers. I guess Slaanesh could work even better with the high initiative.

AsgeirArnald
08-01-2009, 01:47 PM
Imagine the bargain when attached to a large squad of berserkers, plague marines or terminators.

I know. That's one of the reasons I was asking. It would be completely ridiculous. A squad of terminators with lightning claw pairs would be re-rolling to hit and to wound. Crazy.

I play a Demon Prince with warptime in my thousand sons army and its way uber-killy.

StrikerFox
08-04-2009, 04:16 AM
i too thought at first it would apply to his squad.. heck even made a sorc to lead a squad of lightning clawed termies.. all MOS... of course i was heartbroken when it was pointed out to me i couldnt do it.. sooo, i collapsed on the floor, laying in a puddle of my tears and saliva.. gibbering to myself.. "WHYYY???" :p

Juju
08-05-2009, 02:34 PM
How about a thousand sons squad with an aspiring sorceror? Does the whole squad gain the reroll benefit? I ask because this is the way I have played for a while now, and no one has yet to question it.

Latro_
08-05-2009, 02:47 PM
phew i thought this thread was gonna be about the debate as to if you can re-roll individual results or have to re-roll all dice.

ooops :p

ebolus
08-05-2009, 03:22 PM
phew i thought this thread was gonna be about the debate as to if you can re-roll individual results or have to re-roll all dice.

ooops :p

Well, since you bring it up. I have always re-rolled misses and only the misses. And everyone I know and all rules interpretations on the internet seem to go the same way.

But: It does not say that I may re-roll all failed rolls to hit and failed rolls to wound for the entirety of that players turn.

We just have to assume that the text in italic on page 88 is a picture of the RAI (rule as intended):
The psycher surrounds himself with a dimensional instability, which warps the passage of time and grants the target the opportunity to place his attacks with supernatural precision.

I don't think the scorceror has supernatural precicion if he has to re-roll all dice.

Juju
08-05-2009, 03:34 PM
Ebolus, I disagree. The rule specifically states that "... the psyker may reroll all rolls to hit and all rolls to wound for the entirety of the players turn." I think that pretty clearly states that he can reroll both. And the fact that the fluff part of the rule says he has supernatural precision I think means that he is great at not only hitting the opponent but also finding the weak spot, thus representing the reroll for the wound dice also.

But back to the way warptime effects the squads. Is the verdict out that only the psyker gets the advantage?

ebolus
08-05-2009, 03:42 PM
The rule says "his attacks", and in the next senctence "the psyker may re-roll... " so the rule or ability is his only.

Juju, we definately agree ;). I read it the same way, it's just that when re-reading and re-reading the rule it seems that GW could be clearer (as they always can).

Nabterayl
08-05-2009, 03:44 PM
My verdict is the psyker and only the psyker, yes. I don't see where "the unit" comes from. The text says "the psyker may re-roll all rolls to hit and rolls to wound."

"The psyker" doesn't roll anything, of course; the player does. But ordinarily we allow the rules to pretend that our warriors are rolling dice. Fortune, for instance, says, "This unit re-rolls any failed saves it makes." We understand "this unit re-rolls" to mean "any player rolling for this unit." Consequently, "the psyker" must mean "any player rolling for the psyker."

If that weren't persuasive, then the natural reading of the text would be to say that warptime allows the Chaos player to re-roll all rolls to hit and rolls to wound for each army for the entire turn. After all, "all" means "all," it doesn't mean "the unit to which the psyker using this power is attached," and there is nothing in either the codex or the main rulebook stating that psychic powers affect only the psyker's own unit unless otherwise specified.

Those are the only two possibilities I see in the text. Obviously I think "only the psyker" is the correct one, both because I think that's the correct way to read GW rules, and because the second reading is hax to the point of absurdity.

I do think, though, that warptime allows the re-roll of successful rolls to hit and rolls to wound. It doesn't say "failed" rolls, after all. If my sorceror, gifted with "supernatural precision," decides he'd rather hit only one guy instead of hitting three (perhaps because he wants the combat to last longer than his turn), I can imagine him doing that.

ebolus
08-05-2009, 03:55 PM
I do think, though, that warptime allows the re-roll of successful rolls to hit and rolls to wound. It doesn't say "failed" rolls, after all. If my sorceror, gifted with "supernatural precision," decides he'd rather hit only one guy instead of hitting three (perhaps because he wants the combat to last longer than his turn), I can imagine him doing that.

Very good point, and you must be right. And of course that's something I have to remember. Now and then my daemon princes get shot to pieces. To deliberately delay the close combat win to my enemy's turn, would of course be a fantastic tactic...

BuFFo
08-06-2009, 01:58 AM
This rule is obvious that it does NOT affect a unit... Wishful thinking at its worst!

Vince
08-06-2009, 03:28 AM
As far as having to reroll all the dice the key word is "may". This implies my choice not all or nothing. Now I could reroll successful ones if I wished but I would not have to reroll all if I decided to do any.

I cant believe anyone would think this means the squad. It says the pysker. It does not say the unit he is attached to or your whole army or anything like that.

Tarion
08-06-2009, 05:17 AM
As far as having to reroll all the dice the key word is "may". This implies my choice not all or nothing. Now I could reroll successful ones if I wished but I would not have to reroll all if I decided to do any. Its more unclear than that. There are two possible interpretations of the phrase "the psyker may re-roll all rolls to hit and rolls to wound for the entirety of that player's turn".



1 - The Psyker may choose to re-roll any dice from the selection of "All to-hits and to-wounds".
In other words, you can choose to roll any of the dice you roll when rolling to hit and to wound. If you wanted, you could re-roll all your failures, or even all your successes. This is the interpretation most people seem to go with.

2 - The Psyker may choose to re-roll all dice rolled.
Pick up your successes and your failures and try again. Honestly, doesn't impress me much. Still, it seems to be a valid interpretation of the wording.

StrikerFox
08-06-2009, 06:28 AM
two DP's with warptime with MoN.. pretttty harsh..

darknite
08-06-2009, 10:11 AM
I have a Chaos Sorcerer with Warptime that I attach to a squad of marines. In the CSM Codex it reads-

Warptime
This power is used at the start of any player's turn. If successful, the psyker may re-roll all rolls to hit and rolls to wound for the entirety of that player's turn.

I thought this meant that just the sorcerer could re-roll, but one of my friends is convinced that it allows the entire squad to re-roll. Any thoughts/help would be very much appreciated!

Wow, this is what happens when power-hungry preteens play 40k. :p

When in doubt check the FAQ. If in further doubt play the rule as written. When in extremis doubt dice it for the game and then research the question later and decide if you're ever going to play with the guy who tried to pull that stunt again.