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GPrime
12-15-2009, 12:56 AM
I have recently converted a veteran squad with shotguns and 3xMeltas.

However im at a loss as to what to equip the sarge with.

Do i keep it cheep and stick with a laspistol and CCW? do i give him a shotgun for free? do i go all out and get him a powerfist?

How do you guys arm them?

p.s they will most likely be lanching out of the back of a vandetta with demolitions.

MasterSlowPoke
12-15-2009, 01:15 AM
Taking a shotgun on the sarge gives you one less S3 CC attack but one more S3 shooting attack. It's probably a wash.

A powerfist might be useful if a stubborn vehicle won't die, but I wouldn't count on 3 S6 attacks to do much.

Just_Me
12-15-2009, 01:31 AM
I run him with a shotgun and power-fist and give them the "demolitions" load-out. Ironically, I did it for purely fluff based reasons, only to discover that this was not only the consensus for optimal load-out, but one of the most effective units I have in my army.

BuFFo
12-15-2009, 03:11 AM
Don't waste the points on a Fist.

They are Veterans, and if they are in CC, they are dead.

Unless you are fighting guardians or fire warriors, or your opponent is a complete fool. :D

GPrime
12-15-2009, 03:38 AM
Thank you all for the replys

Im one of those guys thats likes to take a lot rather than over equip a squad. iintend to build at least two, possibly three squads.

I think ill go with a shotgun since with demolitions i get melta bombs on the whole squad to finish off any annoying vehiciles that chose not to die anyway.

@MasterSlowPoke: I see the shotgun as a better option then a CCW as i hit on a 3+ in the shooting phase rather than a 4+ at best in close combat.

@Just_Me: I could see how a powerfist could be good to finish off that pesky flamer marine that wouldnt die.

@BuFFo: I think once i have built a second squad i wont need to get then into CC but currently ive been using them to push my opponents squad off of his objective after firing.

Should i ditch demolitions all together? they come with krak grenades as standard. I havent thrown the demo charge once in three games. However i think that was more to do with them roaring around in a Chimera then the Vendetta i still have to build.

I suppose ill proxy and see....

Chumbalaya
12-15-2009, 06:36 AM
Demos is kind of a "if you have the points" thing. It's not necessary, but handy, especially when popping out of a scouting Valk turn 1 to nail a vehicle with melta bombs.

Lord Azaghul
12-15-2009, 07:33 AM
Personally I donít really bother with any of the doctrines. Those points are more often then not better spent else where BUT if you need a demo charge Ė thatís the way to go. I wouldnít bother with a fist either, you donít really want youre boys in CC (also why I take lasguns over shotguns FRFSRF)

RocketRollRebel
12-15-2009, 08:01 AM
Yeah I'm a bit of a heartless ******* regarding this so I always go with 10 guys 3 meltas las guns sgt w/lp &ccw (vostroyans dont need no stinkin shotguns). The Demolitions doc isnt a bad idea either but I only take it if I have the points. Power fist could have some merits but normally the points can be spent elsewhere since these guys are essentially a brutal tank hunting suicide squad.

Majorcrash
12-15-2009, 08:48 AM
I think vets are best used with there BS 4 comes into play. Give them long range wpns, like sniperrifles and hvy wpns. Grenade launchers at low poitn values. Meltas and plasmas although fun to use and I have other squads that do, usually only get used once on that expensive vet squad.

MVBrandt
12-15-2009, 10:42 AM
Demolitions will take care of anything the power fist would be needed for. As mentioned already, you really don't want them to get stuck in unfavorable combats (unless you're running a Straken supported build sometimes). Against things like dreadnaughts, 10 meltabombs > 1 s6 power fist. Against any other vehicle the same is true. Against marines and such the pfist may save you one time in 50, but you're averaging less than 1 marine kill in a round of combat with it ... so it's not exactly going to save your bacon, and it's not able to one-shot T4 characters, so you're not going to spitefully "take one down with you" either.

GPrime
12-15-2009, 03:26 PM
Personally I donít really bother with any of the doctrines. Those points are more often then not better spent else where BUT if you need a demo charge Ė thatís the way to go. I wouldnít bother with a fist either, you donít really want youre boys in CC (also why I take lasguns over shotguns FRFSRF)

I completely forgot about FRFSRF when building them. Shotguns look badass though...

MVBrandt
12-15-2009, 03:48 PM
I would stress not taking FRFSRF. If you're trying to gank a 5-man marine squad, you really want to be able to charge the survivor(s) rather than just frsr them and then die to the survivor shooting and charging you.

Math time ...

3 Meltaguns + 6 Shotguns + 1 Laspistol + Charge = Vets reduce marines to 1.23 out of 5, win the first round of combat, and the marines "stay," protecting your vets from any kind of bolter rapid fire or other dangerous things when you're in that kind of proximity. By the end of THEIR combat phase there are less than 1 marine left (.62) which gives you about a 50/50 to be free of combat with an 8.94 man vet squad and 3 active meltaguns again.

3 Meltaguns + 6 Lasguns + 1 Lastpistol + first rank fire second rank fire = Vets reduce marines to 1.92 out of 5, don't engage in combat, and even the 1.92 surviving marines using pistols and charging beat the vets.

Use shotguns on meltavets.

Lord Azaghul
12-15-2009, 03:55 PM
I would stress not taking FRFSRF. If you're trying to gank a 5-man marine squad, you really want to be able to charge the survivor(s) rather than just frsr them and then die to the survivor shooting and charging you.

Math time ...

3 Meltaguns + 6 Shotguns + 1 Laspistol + Charge = Vets reduce marines to 1.23 out of 5, win the first round of combat, and the marines "stay," protecting your vets from any kind of bolter rapid fire or other dangerous things when you're in that kind of proximity. By the end of THEIR combat phase there are less than 1 marine left (.62) which gives you about a 50/50 to be free of combat with an 8.94 man vet squad and 3 active meltaguns again.

3 Meltaguns + 6 Lasguns + 1 Lastpistol + first rank fire second rank fire = Vets reduce marines to 1.92 out of 5, don't engage in combat, and even the 1.92 surviving marines using pistols and charging beat the vets.

Use shotguns on meltavets.

Actually the reason I prefer FRFSRF: it that you get an extra attack (or 6) and you opponent doesn't get any strikes back. I also run my vets, melta, melta flamer. Flamers do there fair share of wounds as well!

Part of my play style has me prefering to be charged by the enemy, hopefullly wiping out my unit - that way he/she is out in the open on my turn allowing me to shoot them with something big and AP3, on my turn. I also run platoons and hold my vets in reserves to 'hold the line' so to speak.

MVBrandt
12-15-2009, 04:40 PM
Always a matter of the whole picture for preference. In a vacuum, vets w/ shotguns. In the real world of the tabletop, the response of "whatever works for you" always trumps.

RocketRollRebel
12-15-2009, 05:03 PM
How well does Melta,Melta, flamer work on vets? I feel like the one lone flamer might not really do all that much damage and I could see really missing that 3rd melta when your two miss like mine tend to like to...:mad: When that happens I tend to say they deserve the horrible horrible death that is coming to them... But yeah anyway Malta Melta Flamer? Is it worth losing the extra melta shot?

MVBrandt
12-15-2009, 05:06 PM
I would say it is not worth losing the melta shot. That's not to say it doesn't come in handy from time to time, but it's a waste of easily deliverable BS4. If you feel you aren't getting enough flamers out of the Chimera/Russ/Etc. heavy flamers, platoon command squads, special weapon squads, and other CHEAP, expendable BS3 units abound in the codex to field that loadout with. Guard units are cheap and effective for what they do. Stick them to one task and execute.

Lord Azaghul
12-15-2009, 05:15 PM
How well does Melta,Melta, flamer work on vets? I feel like the one lone flamer might not really do all that much damage and I could see really missing that 3rd melta when your two miss like mine tend to like to...:mad: When that happens I tend to say they deserve the horrible horrible death that is coming to them... But yeah anyway Malta Melta Flamer? Is it worth losing the extra melta shot?

In a 2k game I take 3 units in chimeras. I hold them all in reserve. And I use them as needed. Be it against terminators or marines or a drop pod rhino or orks.
The flamer is a guarentteed hit. And its a good deal cheaper then a melta, with the flamer I'm going for a volumne of S4 hits, If figure if two meltas can't kill a tank, they why buy a third? The flamer allows my unit to be able to engage any enemy unit and have a chance or raking up more kills then just two melta shots, or 4 lasguns (firing from the attach!

weeble1000
12-18-2009, 07:15 AM
I take shotguns on my vets because I run them with either three meltas or three flamers. I enjoy modeling shotguns, but I also figure that they'll probably be within 12 in. when they are using their weapons. That being the case, flamers and meltas are both assault weapons, so I throw shotguns on in case I feel like assaulting after my shooting phase.

I like having the option and the range loss doesn't come up very often since they work up close. That's also why they're typically way out of FRFSRF order radius.