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gcsmith
01-04-2010, 12:05 PM
looking at various rumours and pdf (am defo buying dex dnt worry) ive come up with this list

HQ: parasite (160)

Troops: 2 10 man termagaunts (100)
2 tervagons, catalyst, adrenal glands (370)

heavy: 2 mawlocs (340)

total: 970

for 1000 points i think thatts quit good
so wat do u think.

gcsmith
01-04-2010, 01:35 PM
anyone got any ideas at all?

Lux
01-04-2010, 01:46 PM
The lack of responses is more likely due to few people having the pdf than a complete lack of interest. You've also only given people 1.5hrs to respond. Wait a day before getting frustrated.

As for the list: not bad. You lack much of any anti-tank shooting at all, and despite the mawlocs deepstriking, it is easily possible for faster vehicles to stay well away from you. You might consider dropping 1 tervigon for some hive guard, zoanthropes, or a venom cannon fex, or maybe drop Parasite for that and have 1 terv, fill in as an HQ. The other thing to consider is that 10-strong termagant units die very, very quickly. You'll only spawn so many before either rolling doubles or having your tervigons get killed. Just be aware that some people won't like facing off against that many MC's in a 1000pt game.

Lux

gcsmith
01-04-2010, 02:13 PM
:p i cant see why people would moan about 4 monstrous creatures its legal, and i have thought of the lack of anti tank but i guess i could drop a maw for 3 hive guard, oh and the parasite is 160 not 170 :p

MVBrandt
01-04-2010, 02:15 PM
looking at various rumours and pdf (am defo buying dex dnt worry) ive come up with this list

HQ: parasite (170)

Troops: 2 10 man termagaunts (100)
2 tervagons (320)

heavy: 2 mawlocs (340)

total: 930

for 1000 points i think thatts quit good as i defo have some points left for the upgrades i need like catclyst and furious charge glands on tervagons :p

so wat do u think.

I would say this isn't really spot on.

Mawlocs are useful in the sense that they are a 6 wound monster with decent initiative and a cool ability to - as early as a guaranteed turn 2 if you start them on the board turn 1 - smack rear armor of vehicles with S6 automatic hits .... BUT the Nid dex has cheaper and superior anti-vehicle fire in the Hive Guard. Trygons make a little more sense for a list where you don't have the points to spread your effectiveness in that they are better protected from deep strike (they can't deep strike into impassable ... Mawlocs can and are ganked if they do). They also are better anti-vehicle with attacks b/c instead of 3 attacks for the Mawlocs, the Trygons have 6 that re-roll all rolls to hit (including against fast moving vehicles). Also the Trygon is superfleet (3d6 pick highest IIRC, like the new hormagaunt fleet).

The Parasite is probably not a great HQ choice in this situation. He's also only 160 points. Same points cost as a base Tervigon for a generally less useful unit. They have a purpose I think, but they require a relatively large unit to "hide" in. Large enough that you can guarantee sticking a troop on any power fists or whatever you happen to encounter ... you don't want them able to move that fist model into base contact with the parasite. You really don't have any squads that fit the bill, so he's just an expensive Tyranid Warrior for all purposes of shooting/killing.

For your Tervigons, you really want to spend the points to give them at least Catalyst, so that they can grant Feel No Pain to units as needed. Also worth *thinking* about at least are Adrenals and Toxins, only b/c a solid general can actually apply those benefits to very nearby Termagant units.



Sooo ... 2 x 10-man Termagants to give you 2 scoring Tervigons? Check. Parasite? Points wrong and no, not with the list that you have. 2 Mawlocs? No, not with the list that you have.

Deej
01-04-2010, 02:23 PM
I've read the summary PDF a few times, and I'm planning on converting a Swarmlord and Tervigon.

Main changes I'm thinking of making involve cutting down on Hormagaunts, Carnifexes and Tyrants, and getting more Zoanthropes, Trygons and some Hive Guard. Not loving the pants armour save on Genestealers though, I always upgraded all of mine to 4+.

Really chuffed that spore mines are going to be reasonably useful for flank denial again - got a ton of them from days of yore.

gcsmith
01-04-2010, 02:38 PM
Ty MVbrandt as always ur post is helpful :P
So i see the comments and you seem to say i need a more helpful list. The idea of the list is to create too much for my opponents to deal with so howabout this.

HQ: Tervigon with catalyst and adrenal glands (185)

Elites: 2 squads of 2 hive guard (200)

Troops: 2 squads of 10 termiguants (100)
2 Tervigons with catalyst and adrenal glands (370)
855 total

This leaves me with some points to play with.
145 to be exact but i dnt no wat to go with this :P any help MVBrandt

MVBrandt
01-04-2010, 02:45 PM
Kind of up to you. Options include dropping a gaunt squad and moving one Tervigon to HQ, which costs you a scoring monster and loses redundancy, but makes it easy to shave a hair extra (i.e. one of the adrenal upgrades) and pick up a Trygon; you could also drop the Adrenals off 2 of the Tervigons and pick up a Fex, or drop all Adrenals and pick up a Mawloc.

I'm still playtesting and getting a full grasp myself, so I don't want to go firmly one way or the other on what you *should* do, but spreading your points out to create more threats and more durability by virtue of units that can be lost is always a good way to go about things. You could also drop to 1 squad of 2 hive guard, and 2 squads of 1, but that becomes probably a bit too fragile, and there are times anyway where you'll be shooting at targets and will WANT more hive guard concentrated with fire.

Keep going ... try to apply critical analysis to what you select, meaning ... what is the point of the unit, and how does it interact with your army synergistically. Also, how are you going to deploy and play them? This type of build requires you to be able to give YOURSELF cover at all times. Do you have the proper units and load out to accomplish this, or are you going to be "Vendetta bait?" Questions like these are important as you try to tweak it.

Also, a side comment - it's very difficult to properly build a list at the 1,000 points level, b/c I don't think the game is balanced that way. Nevertheless, you're going with some of the correct choices there IMO ... stay cheap and effective.

Deej
01-04-2010, 02:46 PM
Ty MVbrandt as always ur post is helpful :P
So i see the comments and you seem to say i need a more helpful list. The idea of the list is to create too much for my opponents to deal with so howabout this.

HQ: Tervigon with catalyst and adrenal glands (185)

Elites: 2 squads of 2 hive guard (200)

Troops: 2 squads of 10 termiguants (100)
2 Tervigons with catalyst and adrenal glands (370)
855 total

This leaves me with some points to play with.
145 to be exact but i dnt no wat to go with this :P any help MVBrandt

If the enemy takes something like Terminators, you're prolly going to have a tough time. I normally field some 'Stealers for taking out Termies. Also, think about deployment - something agile or deep striking will help force your opponent to attack multiple targets. I'm looking forward to trying Gargoyles as distractions.

gcsmith
01-04-2010, 02:56 PM
Well using a quick analysis My army at the moment has a solid base. 3 creatures and the ability to make more troops so any objectives near me are safe, especially when 2 monstrous creatures are scoring. with hive guard I have 2 solid anti medium units which are nigh impossible to shift without leaving the rest of my army alone.
What I lack are real up in your face units. Sure my gaunts can and will move up field with FNP and their guns but i really need some oomph. Things that can change this are the death leaper. This adds some chaos and with its -d3 leadership allows my gaunts to win attrition wars easier as well as ruining some psychic opponents. The doom of malantai could also be cool, podding in amongst the army draining some wounds and unleashing a possible S10 AP1 Large blast. However this could be a 1 turn pony. There are also things like spore mines to upset set up and stuff but i think thats a bit weak.
Still I hope someone can tell me with past nid experience or horde experience what might be good, or even playtest experience :p

MVBrandt
01-04-2010, 02:58 PM
It's important to have toxin sacs more than adrenals, if you're going to pick one, for the sake of dealing with things like Terminators.

As much as 10 gaunts can't really tackle Termies, what does actually happen when played correctly is that you can create de facto impregnable bubbles where even tank shocks won't be able to find an open spot to legally disembark a termie squad and subsequently charge the vulnerable guys. The termies will at most charge gaunts. Enough gaunts wounding termies on re-rollable 4's when they charge the terminators or charge in to help w/e gaunts survived will take care of them, at at really no cost to you.

The honest truth of the matter is that there are no lists out there the Tyranid in the prior codex couldn't manage ... but they did so with increased difficulty due to no reliable ranged anti-transport weaponry. Now, with Hive Guard, they have that, and with Tervigons they are able to acceptably manage the issues in monster points cost changes, by trimming the gaunt base quantities and making up for it with in-game spawning. So, playing them in a similar fashion to your 4th ed. really STRONG builds (read: not pure Nidzilla, or outflanking stealers, etc.) in terms of deployment, threat presentation and threat management, but with better units to properly bring the swarm up to speed ... is going to be quite effective.

While players who have gotten way past their own capabilities will try a bunch of tricks with things like drop pod lists and the like, those lists will fall more by the wayside in areas with a more truly competitive metagame.

MVBrandt
01-04-2010, 02:59 PM
GCSmith, the Death Leaper isn't an *awful* idea ... it's not great, but it's not awful. The -d3 leadership is at its best, by the way, when used on imperial players that are taking that one pesky brother captain or inquis lord (tho why?) with a psychic hood .... well, really anyone with a hood.

gcsmith
01-04-2010, 03:15 PM
so do u reckon i should try the podding doom of malantai?

MVBrandt
01-04-2010, 03:20 PM
Podding Doom gets screwed over by Mech armies. I would be more inclined to encourage the Death Leaper, of the two choices.

Doom will be hilarious if you run up against an ork horde or something, though ... well, kinda.

Go with Death Leaper, if you want to try one of those two. Screw with people with the leaper, toxin sac up your free gaunt poop and use them to run over and shoot down infantry, chuck Tervigons at things that can't really deal with them when those opportunities present themselves, and pop transports with Feel No Pain hive guard. Fun times.

gcsmith
01-04-2010, 03:30 PM
well with the way hive guard work FNP would probs be better on the death leaper or swarms when they appear :P. Also u say re rollable wounds with poison, i thought it just made them poison?

MVBrandt
01-04-2010, 03:46 PM
If you give the tervigons both adrenal glands and toxin sacs, barring prohibitive details in the new dex, you'll be S4 on the charge vs. MEQ's with poisoned attacks.

Hive Guard w/ FNP become a "don't bother shooting at them" target for most weapons, since you'll be keeping them covered behind gaunts (or just in cover), giving them fortuneseer saves against most weaponry.

You've got 3 casts of it per turn, so feel free to be flexible.

gcsmith
01-04-2010, 03:53 PM
with poison do i Need strength 4? also u mentionted re rollable 4's wen wounding termies?

Also to make 1500 i was thinking of 2 trygons with adrenal glands, and either spore mines or both alphas.

MVBrandt
01-04-2010, 04:02 PM
Poisoned attacks = 4+ to wound, re-rollable 4+ against equal or lower toughness than strength. Furious assault = S4 for termagants on the charge, which means they re-roll to wound against T4 (i.e. terminators).

gcsmith
01-04-2010, 04:09 PM
ahh I see and only one or 2 of my tervigons need the upgrades to cover my forces, cus if i model them lying down the gaunts will give cover :p

gcsmith
01-05-2010, 12:18 PM
HQ: Tervigon with catalyst and adrenal glands (185)

Elites: 2 squads of 2 hive guard (200)
Deathleaper (140)

Troops: 2 squads of 10 termiguants (100)
2 Tervigons with catalyst and toxin sacs (370)

There we go a new and improved list

Tho i think maybe I only need 2 hive guard but time will see :p

gcsmith
01-08-2010, 11:42 AM
so anyone else have an opinion about my army list