Incoming Blood Angels

[pgarfunkle]

Conversions aren't really my forte so I'm hoping that there will be a new model in the 2nd wave hopefully with a Stormraven. Having said that I would like to try to put together a librarian on a bike using the chaplain bike and the librarian with the axe

[Duke]

I was looking around and was hoping that a Fantasy Vampire COunt model would work... But I don't think it would...

Duke

[pgarfunkle]

The problem with converting Mephiston in my mind is that when I think of the existing model it's defining characteristic is that de-skinned muscle look (that and the give me a hug stance lol ... Or perhaps it's supposed to be "I vant to suck your bluud!")

[Madness]

Astorath should be a perfect base to start from tbh. You just have to salt dip it and bend the limbs if you need it.

[pgarfunkle]

I did think about astorath but it seems a shame to chop up one of the new models toreplace an existing one. I guess you're unlikely to see them both on the table at one however. At least in most games anyway

[Duke]

That is right... AStorath would be a good conversion base. I haven't salt dipped much with metal, how has that worked out? I have only ever salt dipped plastic.

Duke

[Duke]

After a closer look it seems that Astorath would be a good base. If you could cut off Mephistons Hood and move Astorath's arms that it could work out quite well. I would also remove the scrolls propping up Astorath and just have him (converted mephiston) look like he is running on the ground instead of flying.

Also, since Mehpiston uses a psychic power to fly you could put wings that look more "organic," that those of Astorath. I was thinking something bat-like.. Possibly the new Gargoyle wings would be great for that.

Duke

[Snyderson]

Anyone heard anything about that "BA Update sprue"?
Or got that mixed up with the DC or SG sprues...?

[pgarfunkle]

One thing that I've been wondering about is will there be a fluffy reason given as to why there is a divide in the armour styles. Meaning the sculpted style of armour which Dante, the Sanguinor and Sanguinary Guard wear compared to the de-fleshed muscle look of Astorath and Mephiston.

[Bigred]

Just got back from spending some QT with the codex, and holy moly is it going to be crazy. Expect the BoLS review videos soon.

Indeed the Stormraven is a beast with 12 occupants and the dread. Every rhino chassis vehicle is fast and yes the baal is fast/scout and a Fast Attack choice. Strangely with the price increase for fast vehicles, the dropod is now the "budget choice".

My biggest WTF... fast Whirlwinds?!?!

The deepstriking Land Raiders is crazy, and the magna-grapples on dreads are more of a fluff thing than really effective. They are S:8 weapons that will often kill lighter vehicles and can't reliably drag the bigger guys, so it wont happen much.

Expect to see many Mephistons and Gabriel Seths on the table. You should especially expect to see Seth dealing with fast skimmers he can reach as he can automatically inflict a S8 rending attack on them without rolling.

Overall, the Blood Angels look to be a devastating codex that goes stright for the throat. Luckily they dont have access to Thunderfire cannons... :)

[pchappel]

Is Gabreal Seth's auto hit attack S8 or S4? Doesn't much matter to me since I'm dusting off my 3rd ed Fleshtearers and have already preordered the mini from the FLGS ere... Thanks!

[lobster-overlord]

Thanks Bigred for the info. My FLGS just got their black box today, and we'll be opening it tomorrow morning when we set up for our Apoc all day game. I love the idea of all tanks being fast. I've always wanted to run and attack my opponents, but at 6 inches at a time it's not likely to happen, but now at 12, I'm giong to love it.

I've apparently also lost one of my Land Raiders (my Redeemer) so I'm not happy about having to pick up another one.

John M.

[Dj Batman]

Hey everyone,

I saw the New Blood Angels today and actually got a chance to build two of the Sanguinary Guard. They are Awesome models!!

I've got some pictures over on my blog if anyone is interested.

http://dj-batman.blogspot.com

Thanks Guys!

[Duke]

Here is one thing I have been thinking lately:

-Dante grants the unit he joins to not scatter on the deep strike. Does this then apply to the transport that he joins i.e. the Land raider. (If he can remove his jump pack) Or the Storm RAven (If it can still deep strike at all

If that is true then look out for deep striking Dante everywhere.

Duke

[Duke]

I was also thinking about Running the main part of my army as Regular Assault Marines with an attached Sanguinary Priest in a Rhino. Great fun! Or maybe just 5 assault marines in a Razorback with a priest... I think I could run 4-5 of those units for a few hundred points.

Duke

P.S. Those Sanguinary Guard models are BEAUTIFUL! Im going to have to buy three just so I can kit bash them into my RAS.

[Duke]

3 posts in a row. Wow, slow news day.

Big Red: Are you going to post the Video you made on BoLS? I saw it and it looks nice. I was wondering though... Did the section with the Stormraven have any sort of description about the vehicle?

Duke

[DarkLink]

To my knowlege, there isn't a picture of the storm raven in the BA codex. I think our best description comes from that black library book that had a small, thunderhawk like vehicle on the cover.


Personally, I'm thinking about using Dante and Sanguary guard to represent my Grey Knights. I'll use all jump troops to represent the Grey Knights deepstriking and teleporting mid-battle, and avoid things like predators, which the Grey Knights don't use. I think it'll be a nice change of pace.

[lobster-overlord]

I got to read through the codex today. I was so happy, they let me be the one to open the box (not that they had a choice of course...)

I'm sad. Land Raders are under Dedicated Transports, and not their own choices. I do like the Death Company though, and Astorath is cool. I do like the idea of a 2,000 point 30 man death company unit. (30 guys with jump packs and thunderhammers run about that).

I was getting the impression that Sangiunary Guard were going to be replacements for teh Honor Guard, but they are their own Elite choice.

I like Lemartes being an upgrade for the Death Company and not an HQ of his own.

Several models I noticed... In the middle of the page of special characters there is a new Blood Angels Captain model, holding a helmet with a halo and wearing Artificier armor. Also, the conversions of the Tactical Squad and the other basic models had a couple of parts that were not on the DC or Sang sprues. One of the jump packs have wings molded on as ornaments, and I didn't see that on the DC Sprue. The honor guard have BA parts. The Terminators have BA shoulder pads, there are models with shields as well. So I think the rumors of the upgrade sprue is true. Again, I don't see any on the sprues that were in store today.

John M.

[Duke]

Very interesting about the pics and sprue... Are you sure the termie pads aren't just forgeworld pads?

[K4neX]

One of the jump packs have wings molded on as ornaments, and I didn't see that on the DC Sprue.
John M.

That could have come from Dant'es jump pack, if u look at the photos in the PDF dex, you can see Dante's honour guards have Dante's jump packs.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'm wondering if I can pick up some Sanguinary guard/dante and use that with leftover dark angel veteran stuff to make a 1000pt force out of (just for fun/painting really, doubt id use them)..

[sangrail777]

are the sprues for the death co. coming with jump packs?

[Fanboy]

are the sprues for the death co. coming with jump packs?

Yes, from the sprue pics I have seen.

Yours thankfully

Fanboy

[Craz]

They come with regular backpacks and jump packs, and the jump packs, IIRC(I was geeking out, don't hate me if I can't remember perfectly), do had some nice iconography on them.

[Duke]

They do in fact have iconography on them. The pics of the sprue are avaliable on bols and gw sight.

[pgarfunkle]

Placed my first order last night in my local GW but it was pack full of people playing so I didn't get a chance to look through the codex or the models. Think I'm going to have a busy Saturday popping into the store to examine the codex in detail, watching the rugby and having a go on Chaos Rising. Sounds like a good day to me :)

[Bigred]

Blood Angel Codex video overview

http://www.youtube.com/user/Belloflostsouls?feature=mhw4#p/a/u/1/sU4AXO7St3M

-Enjoy

[Duke]

Thanks bigred. Did you see if there was a description of how the lander "stormraven" looks?

[lobster-overlord]

The iconography on the Death Company parts are angelic and also the Fast Attack and DC x's on the tops. No two are alike as well. Dem's nice...

The coolest part of all about the distictly Blood Angels look is that the heads without helmets all have hair, unlike their bretheren of the Vanilla persuasion.

John M>

[Duke]

Something I have wanted to know:

When RAS 'take off their jump packs,' do they get the points to go towards another transport... A lower cost... Or do they get "a free rhino or drop pod" like it is now?

Thanks guys.

Duke

[Craz]

When you take off the jump packs, you get the cost of a vanilla rhino/drop pod off the transport of their choice(not sure about how point discussions can work here).

[lobster-overlord]

The thought of a "Discount Land Raider" is pretty funny now.

[Duke]

yea it is! it really is too bad mephiston cant join units to get a discount LR

[Craz]

Yea, and since Land Raiders are dedicated transports, the boyz and I did the math: You can fit seventeen Land Raiders in a list. If you have seventeen, and ever find a way to fit them in, I want to see that battle report.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

You know i find it intersting that GW took the concept for Male angels floating with wings from Saint Celestine from WH, they really look awesome and as a painter i am looking forward to painting them soon for my frines Angels of Death (DA/BA) army.

But the only thought i have are they overpowered??
WS of 6 or 7's, I of 6's and just damn scary in strength.

Can only hope my own St.Celestine gets half there upgrade if they release a new WH codex.

[lobster-overlord]

Screw upgrading Celestine.... I'm going to user her for my Sanguinor until the model comes out....

[Duke]

Uh oh... Dot bring up female space Marines again, lol.

Oh and I got to do a play test with the new codex, sanguinor is mean! But the other things I was in awe with was fast rhino chasis (particularly the vindi!). Oh and of course, the sanguianry priests are a must have.

Duke

[lobster-overlord]

The Vindicator is one I'm looking forward to fielding. just drive it straight up the field and plop it in someones face and BANG!

[CKO]

Almost the cost of a leman russ the blood angels vindicator better be good.

[Angelus Mortifer]

Almost the cost of a leman russ the blood angels vindicator better be good.

145pts for 12" deployment, 12" move and 24" range S10 pie plate going first Turn 1 isn't bad for the points. Doubling up on them gives you a pretty nasty area denial...

...and there's still space for a couple of outflanking Flamestorm Baals to mop up any survivors...

[Duke]

The list I play-tested had 2 Vindicators and 2 Baal Preds. I upgraded the Baal to a flamestorm and added Heavy Bolter sponsons on it. Oddly I actually liked the Heavy Bolters on the Baal because it gave me some long range DAKKA.

The Fast Vindicators were really nice and since I ran two of them it was even worse.

Also The Furioso with Blood Claws ate a Two tactical squads and Pedro without having anything hurt in return thanks to AV 13.

I also like double Meltas coming from the Assault Squads in Rhinos, ate a Land Raider really easy, then The Vindicators swallowed the contents.

Duke

[lobster-overlord]

Have you posted that list any where yet? I was thinking the same on tanks, 2 and 2. I'm looking to do about a 1,500 to 2,000 point list to start.

HQ
Unsure

Elite
Furioso
Sanguinary Guard (to see what they're like)
or Vanguard

Troops

2x 10 man Assault Squad
10+Lemartes DC

Heavy
2x Vindicators

Fast
2x Baals

[wittdooley]

Here's a list I cooked up that I can't imagine will be competitive, but is fluffy as hell.

HQ
Dante 225
Sanguinor 275

Elite
Sang Priests (x2) 150
+ Jump Pack

Troops
Sang Guard 210
+Infernus
Sang Guard 210
+Infernus
Assault (x5) 130
+ Infernus Pistol, +PW
Assault (x5) 130
+ Infernus Pistol, +PW

Fast Attack
Storm Raven 200
+ MM
Storm Raven 200
+MM

Baal Pred 110

1840 Total Points

Run Dante + Sanguinor with Sang Guard w/ Sang Priests, making them pretty survivable. Deep Strike them in. Assault dudes in Storm Ravens. Baal... well, honestly, I don't know doing what. Trying to kill something, I guess. Again, only 24 models & 3 Vehicles. Can't imagine it'd be too terribly competetive.

[lobster-overlord]

I thought Sang Guard were Elites. Did I remember that wrong?

[wittdooley]

I thought Sang Guard were Elites. Did I remember that wrong?

Dante makes them Troopies.

[Duke]

Does he make them troops? Or does he make them scoring? I forget.

Duke

[Duke]

Here's a list I cooked up that I can't imagine will be competitive, but is fluffy as hell.

HQ
Dante 225
Sanguinor 275

Elite
Sang Priests (x2) 150
+ Jump Pack

Troops
Sang Guard 210
+Infernus
Sang Guard 210
+Infernus
Assault (x5) 130
+ Infernus Pistol, +PW
Assault (x5) 130
+ Infernus Pistol, +PW

Fast Attack
Storm Raven 200
+ MM
Storm Raven 200
+MM

Baal Pred 110

1840 Total Points

Run Dante + Sanguinor with Sang Guard w/ Sang Priests, making them pretty survivable. Deep Strike them in. Assault dudes in Storm Ravens. Baal... well, honestly, I don't know doing what. Trying to kill something, I guess. Again, only 24 models & 3 Vehicles. Can't imagine it'd be too terribly competetive.


I have a feeling that this army will be a glass cannon. That said, it will look amazing on the field. To make it a bit more competitive switch out the Baal for its equiv. in Multi Melta Speeder/ Multi Melta Attack bikes.

Duke

[Gir]

Here's a list I cooked up that I can't imagine will be competitive, but is fluffy as hell.

HQ
Dante 225
Sanguinor 275

Elite
Sang Priests (x2) 150
+ Jump Pack

Troops
Sang Guard 210
+Infernus
Sang Guard 210
+Infernus
Assault (x5) 130
+ Infernus Pistol, +PW
Assault (x5) 130
+ Infernus Pistol, +PW

Fast Attack
Storm Raven 200
+ MM
Storm Raven 200
+MM

Baal Pred 110

1840 Total Points

Run Dante + Sanguinor with Sang Guard w/ Sang Priests, making them pretty survivable. Deep Strike them in. Assault dudes in Storm Ravens. Baal... well, honestly, I don't know doing what. Trying to kill something, I guess. Again, only 24 models & 3 Vehicles. Can't imagine it'd be too terribly competetive.

Not that it really makes a difference, but Storm Ravens are heavy support.

[lobster-overlord]

Does he make them troops? Or does he make them scoring? I forget.

Duke

I did forget... He makes them troops.

John M>

[Havik110]

I would love for them to have given us a reason or ability to run an all jump pack list but no dice...this is still a mech game...

I think the 3 Drop pod dreads, 3 baals, 3 vindiess, and 2 troops in rhinos and 1 HQ are gonna do some hurting...

[rle68]

I had the op to read the codex this weekend and after reading it i have decided i am done with 40k for good

the outright ability of a ic to remove a wound from an enemy ic model with no roll ...for the points is outright garbage

if this isthe way gw wants to go then soldier on but i am finished

[Loken]

I had the op to read the codex this weekend and after reading it i have decided i am done with 40k for good

the outright ability of a ic to remove a wound from an enemy ic model with no roll ...for the points is outright garbage

if this isthe way gw wants to go then soldier on but i am finished


Forgive me, but how tenuous is your passion for this game, if one little rule can make you decide to leave it behind? Seriously, there are things I find broken, but they don't make me go all Rush Limbaugh and take my minis to Costa Rica in disgust.

A better attitude about the game and its role in your life might be needed.

[rle68]

Forgive me if the fact i have been playing since 2nd ed came out and i am tired of the ridiculous ness of the codex creep affecting the game

yes everything in this codex reaks right now

fast attack tanks fast moving vindicators fast flying transports with free upgrades etc etc etc

now a 225 point character that auto wounds another ic before the game even starts with no roll is ridiculous in its concept


your lack of understanding leads you to make veiled insults and proves you dont have the comprehension to understand the far reaching ramifications of this nonsense

[Duke]

Forgive me if the fact i have been playing since 2nd ed came out and i am tired of the ridiculous ness of the codex creep affecting the game

yes everything in this codex reaks right now

fast attack tanks fast moving vindicators fast flying transports with free upgrades etc etc etc

now a 225 point character that auto wounds another ic before the game even starts with no roll is ridiculous in its concept


your lack of understanding leads you to make veiled insults and proves you dont have the comprehension to understand the far reaching ramifications of this nonsense

Though in some respects I see your point I would suggest that you reconsider. Perhaps there are certain aspects of this codex (and I would infer others as well). However, it really matters what your local meta-game is. For example, if it is only you and a few close friends then make a house ruling... Nothing against that. Also, if you play pick up games at your local games store then simply say you won't play against opponents with certain units. Really the only time you should be concerned about broken codices IMHO is at tournaments.

I agree that codex creep is frustrating, but lets at least wait till the codex is actually played a bit.

Duke

[wittdooley]

Forgive me if the fact i have been playing since 2nd ed came out and i am tired of the ridiculous ness of the codex creep affecting the game

Excellent. Establish that you've been playing since 2nd Ed. so you must be "in the know."


yes everything in this codex reaks right now


Reeks isn't THAT hard to spell, but moving on.



fast attack tanks fast moving vindicators fast flying transports with free upgrades etc etc etc


Oh boo hoo. The Blood Angels always had a few fast tanks. Now they have more. Get over it. I don't hear you complaining about Dark Eldar Raiders, Mr. 2nd Edtion.


now a 225 point character that auto wounds another ic before the game even starts with no roll is ridiculous in its concept


Ohhh, a good point. There aren't any other units or characters in the game that are "just so broken" are there. Didn't we have a huge hubub recently over Jaws of the World Wolf and Doom of Malanthi. Quit *****ing until you've played against them a bunch.



your lack of understanding leads you to make veiled insults and proves you dont have the comprehension to understand the far reaching ramifications of this nonsense

Again, Mr. 2nd Edition rears his head. He has the understanding, you see, because he's played since 2nd Edition. Duh. Plus, the far reaching ramifications in our niche hobby... I mean... come on. Dogs and cats, living together... Yikes.

And PS, Mr. 2nd Edition. My insults and disdain for your comments are in no way, shape, or form veiled. Just being clear. Wanted to make sure you were able to comprehend that they're very intentional.

[Warpath]

Can someone explain me about that auto wound thing? i`m guessing that a 225 pt char means Dante, i thought that the Death Mask of Sanguinus didn`t affect wounds or Thoughness. Can someone please clarify?

[darth_papi76]

We should wait until the codex is out before making any rash judgments. They seem to have a fast and dynamic list that could be fun to play. However, on the surface it seems like there aren't any drawbacks to the list. As a result they may not be fun to play against. They seem to be very "Special rules intensive" without really paying the points for it (deep striking Land Raiders for no extra points comes to mind). And I really do hate Dante's anti-IC rule. But every book is going to have its own brand of nastiness. I wonder what the Templars are going to be like?

[Gir]

Can someone explain me about that auto wound thing? i`m guessing that a 225 pt char means Dante, i thought that the Death Mask of Sanguinus didn`t affect wounds or Thoughness. Can someone please clarify?

It's -1 ws, w, i and a to a minimum of 1. It's the only decent rule Dante has, and without it, nobody would take him.

It seems to be another Doom of Malanthi "Overpower", until people realize he's T4 without eternal warrior.

[Shagrath]

Played a couple games with some of my existing marines counting as ba basically using Seth as a battering ram.

6x assault termies th/ss
1x corbelo
1x librarian with unleash rage
1x chaplain
1x chapter master seth

all mounted in a land raider crusader

then a couple 10 man tacticals mounted in rhinos with a meltagun, melta pistol, multi-melta, and power weapon apiece.

...Unfortunately my first game was against a leaf blower guard list and on top of that I rolled terribly...

The second game was against assaulty templars, the tacticals didn't do so hot against a charging squad of ten marines with ccws... Seth and his squad were hilarious though ripping through squad after squad...

I'll continue tinkering but the idea is to make a flesh tearerer list that reflects their fierceness and lack of numbers these days. Doesn't need to be competitive just fun.

Astorath, sanguinary guard, and death company are looking mighty fine though. Hmm maybe a libby with termie armor and a storm shield or something.

..There always is so much whining when new dexes come out hmmm..

[Snyderson]

How much points is that list? To be honest, I don't consider it that strong. You got one big super unit (seems to be half of your total points), which a clever enemy will avoid and/or tarpit.

[BuFFo]

Seems like a well balanced codex so far.

[Duke]

The list seems balanced actually so far (In reference to all the other 5th ed. codices). Sure they have lots of special rules, but you pay for them. if not in points then in drawbacks.

Examples:
- Our fast vehicles are more expensive.
- Of our 'super powerful characters' they have some major drawbacks.
- Mephiston: Can't join units IIRC and no invuln save, no Eternal Warrior
- Dante: No eternal warrior
- Sanguinor: Can't join units
- All of those guys are 250+ points
- Cost of units can get pricey too, sure we can have FNP and FC in every unit, but at 50 pts each (plus wargear) it gets expensive.
- A lot of our great units compete against eachother: Fast Vindis VS Storm Raven gunships, The whole elites slot.

Im not saying it isn't codex creep, but Im just saying give it 6 months after the release to pass judgment.

Duke

[pgarfunkle]

I had a quick scan through the codex at the weekend and thought that it was mostly well balanced. Yes there are things in there that give you cause to think whoa, but until we see how well these things work in practice I think its a little soon to be freaking out.

Regarding the whole loss of a wound ability I don't see how it's that different from the Storm Raven ignoring the extra d6 that meltas would usually benefit from. Or the fact that monoliths ignore most extra d6 or the lance weapons or rail guns (whichever they are)? that count everything as above av 12 as 12.

Also I've been playing and painting since 2nd ed does that make me all knowledgeable (apparently not since I can't remember if its rail or lance weapons lol)

[rle68]

Excellent. Establish that you've been playing since 2nd Ed. so you must be "in the know."


Reeks isn't THAT hard to spell, but moving on.



Oh boo hoo. The Blood Angels always had a few fast tanks. Now they have more. Get over it. I don't hear you complaining about Dark Eldar Raiders, Mr. 2nd Edtion.


Ohhh, a good point. There aren't any other units or characters in the game that are "just so broken" are there. Didn't we have a huge hubub recently over Jaws of the World Wolf and Doom of Malanthi. Quit *****ing until you've played against them a bunch.



Again, Mr. 2nd Edition rears his head. He has the understanding, you see, because he's played since 2nd Edition. Duh. Plus, the far reaching ramifications in our niche hobby... I mean... come on. Dogs and cats, living together... Yikes.

And PS, Mr. 2nd Edition. My insults and disdain for your comments are in no way, shape, or form veiled. Just being clear. Wanted to make sure you were able to comprehend that they're very intentional.

ok you want to compare a baal pred to a DE raider now i know your high on something, armor 10 versus armor 13... step off junior let the big boys talk now...a fast moving vindicator for 145 where can i buy a 100 of them ? 115 for a baal? 13 armor and twin linked assault cannons as a fast attack choice?! completely ridiculous and way under priced

and dont even go there on jaws .. which requires rolls and you get to ignore it dante you get no role you get nerfed before the game starts again learn the rules before you come at me with your ignorance 245 point for a power you have to cast versus 225 that requires nothing but showing up more garbage...

lets not even forget the librarian dreadnaught for 175 points versus bjorn in the wolves for 275 again under priced over powered blood angels crap.. soley desinged for them to sell more models at the detriment to the game as a whole.. i dont begrudge GW the right to make money far from it but wheover is in games development is insane and has no idea what he is doing to the game as a whole

try learning the actual comparisons before you open your clap trap and prove the fact you have no idea what your talking about.. so you can make your wikepedia insults but the fact you havent been able to disprove anything i have said except your vitriolic comments proves you should get your license before you play on the internet

[DarkLink]

I find it kinda odd that some people are thinking "man, my character doesn't have eternal warrior, so he sucks":p. Most characters don't have eternal warrior. Eternal warrior is the exception, not the rule, so I wouldn't complain about not having it. At least not for gameplay purposes.

Besides, there's not much that can insta-kill mephiston.


I agree though, the real drawback would be the massive cost. I don't know of many people using marneus calgar or many of the other really expensive HQ's, simply due to cost. Anything over about 200pts is really pushing it.

[rle68]

The list seems balanced actually so far (In reference to all the other 5th ed. codices). Sure they have lots of special rules, but you pay for them. if not in points then in drawbacks.

Examples:
- Our fast vehicles are more expensive.
- Of our 'super powerful characters' they have some major drawbacks.
- Mephiston: Can't join units IIRC and no invuln save, no Eternal Warrior
- Dante: No eternal warrior
- Sanguinor: Can't join units
- All of those guys are 250+ points
- Cost of units can get pricey too, sure we can have FNP and FC in every unit, but at 50 pts each (plus wargear) it gets expensive.
- A lot of our great units compete against eachother: Fast Vindis VS Storm Raven gunships, The whole elites slot.

Im not saying it isn't codex creep, but Im just saying give it 6 months after the release to pass judgment.

Duke

Sorry but no.. i dont need 6 months to know that this is broke in concept out the door
200 points for the raven gun ship with free addons and upgrades and assault transports with POTMS and no down side?

your characters are not even close in points to the wolves ic's and yours do more.

you have a single character that can remove stats from all opps ic's with the simple thing as showing up? you can not justify that in any manner. and for 225 points? again way under priced

your fast vehicles are more expensive? 115 for a baal as a fast attack choice you cant be serious? 145 for a fast moving vindicator ?!?!?!!??!? WTF! where can i get mine? move 12 fire move 12 fire come on

175 points for librarian dreads! are you kidding me? when bjorn is 275 points and doesnt have the stuff yours can do and you can have 3 of them ?

free upgrades to death talons.. yeah i said free they should cost at least 30 points for the set for what they do

no this one goes way to far.. in retrospect the nids one is fairly slimey but this one is covered in cheese

[gcsmith]

right rle68, hes the one whose high, have you played against them? and also the nids are slimey, where have you been thay are the least cheesy of the recent dex's they have one cheese unit, in an army which is hampered by the state of mech

[Shagrath]

not a balanced or very good list (mine not the codex) but hey, once it gets stuck in it's a blast to play isn't that what matters ;)

[Melissia]

my first game was against a leaf blower guard list and on top of that I rolled terribly
I wouldn't be surprised that you got rolled even if you faced off against Grey Knights, with that list if it's at the points level I think it is.

In my experience, uber-units tend to actually make a list weaker rather than stronger.

[energongoodie]

and dont even go there on jaws

Oh no he dihunt

[rle68]

decided not to post this

[rle68]

disregard

[pchappel]

Well, just my opinion, but... Comparing Mephiston to Njal seems to be a decent one. Mephiston looks like he could tear apart things in HtH, as long as he doesn't get bogged down or simply shot by enough high Str/low AP shots. Njal's special "it's not a psychic ability, no roll, no hood to block it" ability has a bit more potential to affect large chunks of the enemy army in addition to his psychic abilities and better chance to simply shut down enemy psykers...

Not sure comparing the Librarian DN to Bjorn is a good one... Bjorn has the option for either the Assault Cannon or a Las Cannon upgrade at BS 6, an INV save, a psychic save and Venerable... Unless you were doing the simulation in a bubble, the Librarian will need a drop pod or the jump pack psychic ability to get close to Bjorn... :) As a Wolves player, I'd be happy to take those chances.

The fast vehicles? Playing with the PDF codex now, the Baal is fast 50% of the time now. Seeing it consistently fast isn't too much of a boost. The Scout ability might be a bit overpowered, but when faced with IG/Tau gun lines... I see it as more of an equalizer against the gun line cowering in a corner of the field :)

Noticed there weren't complaints about the Grey Hunters just being better than any other Tactical Marines out there :) The BA seem like a fast, all out offense army where a lot of the other forces that do other things better...

[Duke]

I agree. I think the way the codex is built Blood Angels will have to be in your face and dirty. No holding back waiting to strike, or skirting out on the edges. I love that style of play and no matter what army I play I always seem to play "Blood Angels," tactics, lol.

Duke

[Melissia]

If that's the case, it's very similar to the Sisters' style, except more assault oriented.

[lobster-overlord]

It's the way I've wanted to play and never really got the chance to because of A) not knowing how and B) not having a great list to work with. I think fast tanks will make the difference for my lists.

John M>

[rle68]

Well, just my opinion, but... Comparing Mephiston to Njal seems to be a decent one. Mephiston looks like he could tear apart things in HtH, as long as he doesn't get bogged down or simply shot by enough high Str/low AP shots. Njal's special "it's not a psychic ability, no roll, no hood to block it" ability has a bit more potential to affect large chunks of the enemy army in addition to his psychic abilities and better chance to simply shut down enemy psykers...

Not sure comparing the Librarian DN to Bjorn is a good one... Bjorn has the option for either the Assault Cannon or a Las Cannon upgrade at BS 6, an INV save, a psychic save and Venerable... Unless you were doing the simulation in a bubble, the Librarian will need a drop pod or the jump pack psychic ability to get close to Bjorn... :) As a Wolves player, I'd be happy to take those chances.

The fast vehicles? Playing with the PDF codex now, the Baal is fast 50% of the time now. Seeing it consistently fast isn't too much of a boost. The Scout ability might be a bit overpowered, but when faced with IG/Tau gun lines... I see it as more of an equalizer against the gun line cowering in a corner of the field :)

Noticed there weren't complaints about the Grey Hunters just being better than any other Tactical Marines out there :) The BA seem like a fast, all out offense army where a lot of the other forces that do other things better...


i see you left out the fast moving vindicator and didnt mention the baal as a fast attack choice or the move 24" ramming assault vehicle for 200 points with 4 str 8 ap1 missles a free twin linked multi melta upgrade a free twin linked las cannon or plasma cannon and has potms and is an assault vehicle hmm 24" ram in the movement phase troops drop out dread is dropped they assault what the raven has destroyed then the troops wreck whats around can you say goodbye ork battle wagon def rollahs dont work when being rammed

the fact a librarian dreadnaught has all those abilities for 175 points vs bjorn at 275 is a large difference and the invo save is only a 5 plus not a certainty yes the bs is improved but 275 points? i wont jump for joy

njal is 245 and can nullify psychic powers on a 3+ within 24" dante shows up removes 1 wound 1 str 1 ws yadda yadda yadda for 225 with no roll or anything not apples to oranges

and the plasma cannon your so high on with bjorn will only glance the dread at range on a 6 so that one doesnt really fly

[Veahirin]

I had the op to read the codex this weekend and after reading it i have decided i am done with 40k for good

the outright ability of a ic to remove a wound from an enemy ic model with no roll ...for the points is outright garbage

if this isthe way gw wants to go then soldier on but i am finished

Well this seems to be the way GW wants to take things so BYE!

Some people (Especially Duke and pchappel) here have tried discussing this with you but you are too angry to see anything but what you think the truth is. Honestly we wont miss you.

I have been a long time reader, but a first time poster I just hate it when people go off like you.

-V

[pchappel]

True, I also left out the MotW, the Thunderwolf Cav of silliness, etc... Fast Vindicators are "neat" and I'll be fielding one in my FT army, but I also field one with my Wolves and maybe we play on smaller tables, but I'm seldom out of range... For the turn or two before they die that is...

On Bjorn? Never thought to use a PC, I don't actually play characters, but the only options worth taking seem to be the AC or the Las Cannon. :) But that's just me I guess... Librarian DN seems "neat", but it's another one of the things I would need to make a test roll, hope they don't nulify the power, to hit on the lance attack, etc... Too many chances to fail, of maybe I see too many Farseer/Librarians locally...

Njal I would argue compares directly to Mephiston, not Dante...

Even with all that I'd still say the Wolves at least have a better than even chance against the BA with the counter atack, mess of power weapons, etc... But again, just my opinion as always...

[Rapture]

Even with all that I'd still say the Wolves at least have a better than even chance against the BA with the counter atack, mess of power weapons, etc... But again, just my opinion as always...

But what about us poor old regular marines? I guess I will just field x3 thunder fire cannons and x3 land speeder storms.

[Duke]

But what about us poor old regular marines? I guess I will just field x3 thunder fire cannons and x3 land speeder storms.

LOL, seriously. If any Marines codex can complain it surely isn't the Wolves!

Duke

[wittdooley]

i see you left out the fast moving vindicator and didnt mention the baal as a fast attack choice or the move 24" ramming assault vehicle for 200 points with 4 str 8 ap1 missles a free twin linked multi melta upgrade a free twin linked las cannon or plasma cannon and has potms and is an assault vehicle hmm 24" ram in the movement phase troops drop out dread is dropped they assault what the raven has destroyed then the troops wreck whats around can you say goodbye ork battle wagon def rollahs dont work when being rammed

the fact a librarian dreadnaught has all those abilities for 175 points vs bjorn at 275 is a large difference and the invo save is only a 5 plus not a certainty yes the bs is improved but 275 points? i wont jump for joy

njal is 245 and can nullify psychic powers on a 3+ within 24" dante shows up removes 1 wound 1 str 1 ws yadda yadda yadda for 225 with no roll or anything not apples to oranges

and the plasma cannon your so high on with bjorn will only glance the dread at range on a 6 so that one doesnt really fly

Congratulations! You're the first person I've successfully seen speak the Ork language. Oh wait.. that was English? Whoops...

For someone leaving the hobby, it sure is taking you a long time to get the hell out. We won't miss your *****ing and moaning, that's for sure.

[Rapture]

Congratulations! You're the first person I've successfully seen speak the Ork language. Oh wait.. that was English? Whoops...

For someone leaving the hobby, it sure is taking you a long time to get the hell out. We won't miss your *****ing and moaning, that's for sure.

That is a very foolish attitude.

You can't honestly say that they hasn't been a dramatic change in the style of codex upgrades that have been coming out recently. Compare Codex Dark Angels and Codex Blood Angels if you feel like arguing that point.

If there wasn't anyone willing to complain (and what better way to do that than by quitting?) then the opinions of the players wouldn't reach the top and things would shift in a negative direction. There certainly isn't anything wrong with GW hearing that their players want the game to be as balanced as possible.

To be honest, I don't appreciate a lot of the new things that the Codex Blood Angels has to offer. That will most likely go double for Dark Angels, Eldar, and Chaos space Marines players out there. However, from experience I know that the things that seem craziest will most likely sort themselves out in time.

[wittdooley]

That is a very foolish attitude.

You can't honestly say that they hasn't been a dramatic change in the style of codex upgrades that have been coming out recently. Compare Codex Dark Angels and Codex Blood Angels if you feel like arguing that point.

If there wasn't anyone willing to complain (and what better way to do that than by quitting?) then the opinions of the players wouldn't reach the top and things would shift in a negative direction. There certainly isn't anything wrong with GW hearing that their players want the game to be as balanced as possible.

To be honest, I don't appreciate a lot of the new things that the Codex Blood Angels has to offer. That will most likely go double for Dark Angels, Eldar, and Chaos space Marines players out there. However, from experience I know that the things that seem craziest will most likely sort themselves out in time.


What I can honestly say is it's very tiresome listening to people whine and complain about a codex BEFORE IT'S EVEN OUT. Seriously. Comparing the Dark Angels codex to the Blood Angels codex is really ignorant, as it's a pre 5E codex--and yes, I'm aware they created the DA codex with the new edition in mind.

What I've learned is that people that enjoy complaining will find something to complain about with every codex release. With Space Marines it was Vulkan melta spam. Space Wolves had Jaws of the World Wolf. Nids have Doom of Malanthi. With Ork FAQ its the Battle Wagon Deff Rolla. And on. And on.

The thing that irks me the most is the complaining about a codex that you've not yet had the opportunity to play against. It is, quite frankly, silly. And for someone to say that "Oh no! This codex is so unfair! I'm going to quit the game!" Well, I think the game is better off without people like that.

[pchappel]

But what about us poor old regular marines? I guess I will just field x3 thunder fire cannons and x3 land speeder storms.

:) Well, not one of the armies I play, so can't really say... Though, there's a fair number of pretty decent options in there... Mostly I'm just breaking out my old FT's so I can field all the Jump Troops :) and not feel like I'm just throwing the game...

[Melissia]

Lol, "poor old regular marines".

You guys ain't poor, quit whining. You've not suffered a decade (or very close to one) and two editions without a new codex. Just because some other armies are getting new toys isn't a reason for you to throw a temper tantrum :P

[Loken]

I agree. I think the way the codex is built Blood Angels will have to be in your face and dirty. No holding back waiting to strike, or skirting out on the edges. I love that style of play and no matter what army I play I always seem to play "Blood Angels," tactics, lol.

Duke

Exactly! I feel the same way. My first army was Dark Angels, and I found myself starting to build an assault DA army, which made me switch to BA. You have to play an army that fits your style I think.

Alec

[Duke]

Exactly! I feel the same way. My first army was Dark Angels, and I found myself starting to build an assault DA army, which made me switch to BA. You have to play an army that fits your style I think.

Alec

Seriously! It is almost as if everyone thinks that once a new awesome-sauce-codex comes out that everyone is going to play that army. It isn't true! Most people play the armies that they like (Despite not being the new power game) Just look at M playing sisters, Im sure it isn't because they are all powerful. When SW came out my gaming group (Which actually has a lot of tournie players) only had one person pick them up, and it wasn't because he wanted to be tops.

In all honesty, the only time you should worry about a new codex being horribly broken is if you play in tournaments a lot. Because you can limit things in pick up/ friendly games.

Short story shorter: Quit whining about how broken BA are because guess what, in 6 months when the next codex comes out you will be whining about that one and all the sudden BA will look "balanced," so just play what you like at deal with it.


Duke (Survived 2 .PDF's so knock of your crud!)

[Melissia]

Right, I play Sisters, Orks, and Guard because... I like Sisters, Orks, and Guard. I started an infantry-heavy Guard army back when they sucked, and had my first Ork squad before the most recent Ork codex was released (my one burna is useless, heh). With the exception of Marine players, most people play armies for fluff reasons.

However... a great deal of Marine players that I know switch rules to the most recent Marine codex. Including one person in particular whom is plays an ultramarines descended chapter but uses the Space Wolf codex because "it's better". Or Chaos Marine players whom use C:SM, as another example. Most notably an Iron Warriors player, which is somewhat understandable I think compared to the smurf player... he prefers the vehicle choices available in C:SM to the ones in C:CSM.

[DarkLink]

Duke (Survived 2 .PDF's so knock of your crud!)

I'd love for my Grey Knights to get a PDF update. Even if it's worse than the BA PDFs, it'll be an improvement:rolleyes:.


I am considering using some of the new rules to represent my Grey Knights, but I'd also be limiting what units I could take. No predators or rhinos or the like, no basic Marines if I can help it, just elite choices like Vanguard and/or Sanguary Guard. Jump packs represent the ability to teleport, power weapons represent Nemesis Force Weapons, etc. I'd also be able use Land Raiders and Storm Ravens, for obvious reasons.

Oh, and of course, Librarian Dreadnoughts. Makes perfect sense for Grey Knights:D.

[rbryce]

according to the rumourmill at heresy, the Storm harbinger(or whatever its called) will be available to grey knights too, and will come in the first wave of releases

[Duke]

Sadly I thi k your right... Eventually all marines will have storm ravens. The only reason it's sad is because I want to be special, lol... Oh and I'm selfish!

[Shagrath]

Based off the current rumors I'd say a storm raven model isn't far off, more than likely being an integral part of the gk release. Makes me think how high the point costs on grey knights will be in the new one based off the ba codex, and the feasibility of there being assault gk squads in the future...I digress back on topic.

[Duke]

I would love to play a grey knight army!!! I just want plastic minis... I don't even care if the codex is great, just plastics!

[wittdooley]

I'm a sucker for anything Imperial, so I would be too.

[Melissia]

Right.... Grey Knights seem to be scheduled for late this year or early next year. Hopefully their codex is as powerful as the BA and SW codices.

And then hopefully the Sisters codex is more powerful still for waiting even longer (of the third edition codices, I imagine Sisters are going to be the last one to be updated).

[Duke]

Nah, Sisters will be weak. By that time GW will have forgotten how to write a Non-Space Marine Codex.

Duke

[Melissia]

Either that or it'll be really weirdly worded and cause lots of RAW issues because they're rushing it so that they can get to sixth edition C:SM.

[DarkLink]

according to the rumourmill at heresy, the Storm harbinger(or whatever its called) will be available to grey knights too, and will come in the first wave of releases

Who needs the rumor mill, the BA codex practically explicitly states that the Grey Knights were the first to use Storm Ravens. If/when we get a new codex, we will almost certainly have Storm Ravens.

[The.Justinian]

Over at /tg Anonymous delivered a codex from black box scans/cellphone pics (still somewhat incomplete, but playable). I spent the better part of the beginning of the week assembling foot assault squads and wrapping my head around a fast Rhino chassis.

Last night, I took the men out for a spin with the following list vs. mech Eldar (their outline below) 1500 pts, pitched, C&C:
HQ: Reclusiarch, Melta Pistol, JP. (DS with combat squad w/2 melta & sarge)
HQ: Mephiston
Elite: 5 Terms w/AC (DS)
Elite: Brother Corbulo (w/9man)
Troop: 9 Assault marines, rhino, fist, melta (reserved)
Troop: 6 Assault marines, melta, flaming razor. (reserved)
Troop: 10 JP assault marines, 2 melta, sarge w/power. (squad into 5 vanilla/everyon else) vanilla half reserved from backedge; specialist half DS'ed with chaplain.
HS: Vindi (reserved)

The foe:
2 DA squads with bladestorm in WS, (one with farseer)
10 Banshees in a WS
Falcon with many guns.

Eldar with first. Meph embarasses himself as a fire magnet, failing his 2+ save twice. Takes perils.
Turn 2, Meph gets shot down to one wound. Carnifex stand-in FTW!
Turn 2, all of our reserves show. DS melta squad bursts one DAWS; terms shoot at the folks inside. This all takes place in their objective area. Others drive around saying VRRROOOOM and making smoke.
turn 3: Eldar shoot the crap out of the chaplain and squad until death. Terms eat the farseer for breakfast. Meph JPs onto the other squad of DA's and eats them. Rest of army VROOOM.
Turn 4, store closes unexpectedly, banshees beyond assault reach and w/some measure of shooting available to crack their transport/jump meph onto them.

Reflections:
Melta in assault squads with only d6 scatter leads to some ambitious drops. Reserved transport squads can get to the far side of the table in time to matter meaning eldar alpha strike of article fame was nullified.

I hesitate to say 'better' than the SM codex, yet I can't find anything that I really missed, either in game or when writing the list. Yes, I was dissuaded from picking up a support pred b/c of its elevated costs, but then I thought of the 12" vindi and how it could accomplish AP and AT roles b/c it would actually get where it needed to be.

It mostly seems to be a character difference. The comparative advantage of their assault squads is so great that you won't see tacs as the core of many BA armies. What the blue mehreens have to spit back with, I can't really say. More utilitarian psychic powers? (ok) Cheaper predators? (ok). Characters with "army tweak' ability? (okay, BAs lack this, but most people think it's not much of a tweak, as you ought to paint in the color of your tweaker.) Biker Troops? (yep).

And there's the irony. The difference between these codicies is between bikes and jump packs. Secondarily, the SCs in BA are all about combat, while the SM SCs are all about modulating the army. Most else is detail/flavor.
Fun query:
Honestly, sparse game with my reserved strat and him being fast eldar, there wasn't much on the board. Very shallow learning curve, like all marines, but I felt that finesse would be required in a more complex game than C&C.
Difference from regular marines: fast rhino chassis changes gameplay. Speed Freeky-est army I've yet played. JP troops as troops makes the opponent very confused on target priority. Verdict out on meph--costs an LR for a fast trygon in a small space, unsure whether this is worthwhile.

Is this codex good for the game?
I think so, it pushes forward a new flavor of mehreen, and given that so many people play them, more variety within the subset should encourage variety and a more interesting fight. It's also refreshing to have an imperial army that is both 'fresh' (not ancient) and CC-tuned; BTs are so old that they feel like they belong in a reenactment with Dark Eldar. However, the smurf lovers are likely to be complaining for a while about their comparative lack of goodies. How the community reacts remains to be seen.

[Duke]

Thanks for the review.

The feeling I have gotten playing/reading about Blood Angels is that they will be very much in your face and you will have about one round of shooting to neutralize them. IF the opponent cannot do target priority then they are screwed. For that simple reason I might find myself taking DC with packs. People fear them a lot more than they should. (Especially when the RAS are FC/ FNP).

IMHO: Shelf your Tac squads and get out your assault squads without jump packs.

Duke

[Melissia]

Is this codex good for the game?
I think so, it pushes forward a new flavor of mehreen

That's rather contradictory :P

[Aenir]

I looked through the dex at my LGS, and have noticed DC can still be lead around by the nose with a 35 point rhino AND you dont have someone who can actually lead them now (no chaplain leading)

[lobster-overlord]

You only had to have the chaplain if you wanted them under control. But Lemartes is negligible once you figure out a jump pack wearing, thunder hammer weilding unit of 30 is bigger than most tournament lists will allow for... And chaplains still add to the unit with Litanies.

JohN M>

[Aenir]

i meant that they no longer lead :)

But a 50 point rhino (DA w/ extra armor) can still lead them around, which seems to negate their nasty-ness :D

[The.Justinian]

That's rather contradictory :P

Word; I just mean, If lovers gonna love, then all that us haters can hope for is that they have more flavors to do it with. This codex seems to force a greater degree of difference from normal marines than SW do, which I hope will lead to more diversity within the full 1/2 of the tournament meta that's occupied by astartes.

The reason they've acquired the name, 'Mehreen' is because they're so blandly similar to one another. Chaos and BT used to at least relieve that somewhat, but their codicies are so dated that few folks pick them up when they're looking for a serious fight (yes, I know BTs are still fierce, but nevertheless...they're rare to see on the table)

The abundance of 3+ armor doesn't really bother me...it allows weapons to be judged against an easy gold standard. It's the secondary problem that the play style that each of those 3+ armor codexes encourage ends up so roughly similar. Any relief from that is welcome.

PS
As an ork/guard player, in a local meta with an abundance of diversity, I see a great deal of other armor/other codexes on the field. When I am troubled, like anyone else, by how generic mehreens are, that trouble is easily relieved when I see someone reach for something that makes their army different...even if it's vulkan, bikers, and so on. Take or leave that thought; I can't judge it's relevance.

Flavor-wise, the universe has always bent in the direction of a wind that tells a story of Astartes fighting other things. I'm not sure this is a bad thing, as when I look back on great victories and losses, those against Astartes come to mind most readily.

[Melissia]

Only because those are just about the only ones told, not because they're necessarily the most memorable. For myself, I barely remember most Marine fluff except where it interacts with other, more interesting factions; marines vs marines tends to blend in with itself in a sort of "durr, muhreenz r kewl n' tuff" fashion, and it's really more interesting to watch them lose heroically than it is to watch them win... Justicar Alaric springs to mind as the ideal example of this, the epitome of Space Marine badassery without being just dull like most Marines are.

[Force21]

But Justicar Alaric is not just a space marine...


he is a totally awesome Bad@ss Grey Knight!

& we all know Grey Knights are the most awesome space marine chapter. :D



anyway back on topic...


I wish I had enough cash just to get some Death Company...

the models are pretty sweet.

[pgarfunkle]

Something I noticed the other day while flipping through the codex is that Lemartes appears to have appropriated Moriar's fluff.

Back in 3rd when Moriar was THE Death Company dread he was sedated between battles and fed blood through augmentation of his sarcophagus. Now any dread that falls to the Black rage may either be sedated or removed from the sarcophagus to die in peace after the battle. Instead Lemartes is now permanently in the grip of the Black rage and is placed in stasis between battles awakening to a life of war time and again. His role of finding those afflicted by the rage is now filled by Astorath who apparently travels between the Blood Angels and their successors, meaning everyone can field him.

I don't know about anybody else but one of the reasons I can't wait to get my hands on the new codex is to find changes to existing and new fluff for the army and its characters. :)

[gcsmith]

Lol played against them today, and blood angels are now in my eyes "codex: Edam, Because there isnt enough cheese in the universe" but seriously they are a gimicky thing with red power armour but a real soft interior :p

[Duke]

What did you like/ not like when playing against them?

[gcsmith]

I like the variance, the fact That There are several targets to chose from. Meaning all my units are useful. Not just relegated to waiting for zoans to blow a tank. I dislike the stupid fast tanks. But am waiting for a LR to scatter within an inch of my men and die :P and watch the BA player try to wiggle out cus it was a land raider and only within an inch:P

[pgarfunkle]

So what sort of units did you face in the BA side, any of the new units i.e sanguinary guard or the death company? You said "waiting for zoans to blow a tank" does that mean you play a nid force?

[gcsmith]

Yes I play a nid force, well as much as i can using shop models while saving the cash and deciding on a list, He used to my knowlege, Dante, honour guard, death company, a land raider redeemer, a pred (anti troop) and 5 termies, a 4 man bikesquad with a attack bike taking it up 2 5 and an assult squad, the honour guard had jump packs and so did the assult.
So quite a few new bits :p that dantes rule is annoying and for his price kinda OP but it was good in the end, I wiped out every man in his force, and he killed 33 guants a tyrgon and a HT

[pgarfunkle]

Cool, I had a nid force before uni but decided to hold off digging them out until after the BA's hit as they were my first and favourite army.

How do you think the red thirst rule fared? I'm curious haw it will affect the army since, if I remember correctly, it replaces ATSKNF which could make BA force prone to being run down.

[gcsmith]

well ur fearless if you have it so no being run down, also The BA player forgot about his rule so it didnt get used.

[pgarfunkle]

Ah I missed the fearless bit when I read thru the codex. I had visions of my squads being chased down in hand to hand after getting red thirst. Back in third I used to roll one for most units when testing for black rage. Stopped fielding devastators because of it in the end lol

[Herald of Nurgle]

Ah I missed the fearless bit when I read thru the codex. I had visions of my squads being chased down in hand to hand after getting red thirst. Back in third I used to roll one for most units when testing for black rage. Stopped fielding devastators because of it in the end lol
Thank god there's no Rage in it, eh?

[pgarfunkle]

Black rage had it's uses, was great for getting dc and assault squads into combat 1st turn. I seem to regularly roll a one on the first turn for my devs. Lemartes was handy for keeping them under control though

having just had a chance to read through the codex again I realised you probably meant no rage in the red thirst. I had assumed that it was there originally. I had a quick go with the codex this afternoon taking part in a 6 player 3 way combat patrol mission 200pts each with myself and one of the staffers playing Blood Angels. I'm warming to the idea of a large death company with a chaplain and some power weapons. I didn't think they would be very effective before but the 3 man squad I had today was surprisingly effective. Having ws 5 is a nice boost :)

[lobster-overlord]

Anyone else notice that the Sang Guard have Bolt Revolvers? (Drum fed rather than clips).

Random thing I noticed just now... Kinda cool.

[Duke]

Bolt revolvers: the gun that won the heresy

[Melissia]

I know people in Dark Heresy who use Bolt Revolvers lol

[DarkLink]

Anyone else notice that the Sang Guard have Bolt Revolvers? (Drum fed rather than clips).

Random thing I noticed just now... Kinda cool.

Technically, standard bolters don't use clips (http://www.quanonline.com/military/military_reference/japanese/wwii_equipment/ammo_65by50.jpg). They use magazines (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/RK-62_Assault_rifle_magazine_with_bullets.jpg). Yes, there is a difference.

And technically, drum magazines are still magazines, just a different type than the standard column stacked magazines.

Also, revolvers by definition don't use magazines. They have a block of revolving chambers called a cylinder (http://projectinfinitum.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/revolver-cylinder.jpg), hence the term revolver. Though GW may have erroneously defined a drum-fed boltgun as a bolt revolver.

Not to get nit-picky or anything:rolleyes:.

[Melissia]

Technically revolvers CAN use something resembling a stripper clip, referred to as a speed loader.

[lobster-overlord]

It's still a Magazine, yes, but it looks really cool compared to the standard clip-ish looking one, and thus makes it unique from a modelling perspective.

John M>

[DarkLink]

Technically revolvers CAN use something resembling a stripper clip, referred to as a speed loader.

Yeah, very useful for reloading (end of the video here has an example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY9CyA9s41c)). The clip is just for reloading, though, revolvers feed from a cylinder. They have similar speed reloaders for magazines as well. Bullets are often supplied with clips, which can be quickly fed into magazines. Saves soldiers and Marines a lot of time when they're having to load up 10+ 30 rnd magazines every time they go out on patrol.

Now, what's really cool is this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJM8asnj6JY). Most magazines are either single or double stack (http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp240/idleprocess/hoglegs/1c8109ad.jpg). M-16s and other assault rifles use double stacks. The magazine in the video, however, is a quad-stack, doubling the magazine capacity. It's basically two 30 round magazines, without the need to reload.

[Snyderson]

Anybody checked out the DC Furioso on the GW Site: Click! (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1060624a_2010-04-02_1_873x627.jpg)
Is that the rumored plastic kit or just a nice comversion using fw goodies?

[Aenir]

Today is the Day, Good luck with your Angels of Blood people :D

Dark Angels FTW :D

[pgarfunkle]

I went into the store today to find that mine hadn't arrived because I had ordered Astorath and the Vanguard Veteran in the same order. Gutted :(

One of the staffers is going to call mail order and try to get the released stuff sent for the coming Friday. Very annoyed with myself as I thought about getting those 2 models later but just added them to the order in the end. So I've got another weeks wait for my Blood Angel goodness

[lobster-overlord]

Both the vanguard vet and Astorath release next week, so they're not in stock yet at the stores.

Sorry bout that.

I stopped by my LGS on my way to work this evening, to let them know they'd have to hold my stuff a few days because I didn't have any money (my wife had some unexpected complications with the pregnancy she's in, so an extra $1000 in the baby this week... all is well though, so please no worries). Turns out I won last month's painting copetition, so I was able to pick up the codex and Lemartes anyway. WooT! Score one for the Lobsters.

John M.

[pgarfunkle]

Yeah I had just assumed that the order would be split and dispatched as ready, far too used to dealing with Amazon pre-orders I guess lol. Congrats on the painting competition and best wishes for the pregnancy

[Shagrath]

got mine today hazaa

can somebody lock this?

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3695/mephistonconquerblackra.jpg (http://img96.imageshack.us/i/mephistonconquerblackra.jpg/)

[lobster-overlord]

Thanks pgarfunkle, we got good news to counter the bad news on the baby today, and that is that one doctor overrode another and said only one test a week, not two, so that will keep us from ahving to spend too much money.... I was able to squeek out the Sanguinor between the Electric and Water bills today too... Now just need to free up money for the upgrade sprues (what I call the Baal, DC and SG kits...as I ahve a lot of bashing to do with them over the next month).

John M>