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View Full Version : My Epic Ultramarines List (and a discussion about Army Builder's (in)accuracy)



CrusherJoe
01-10-2010, 04:50 AM
Allrightythen! I present the list I've been playing with and painting (OK, mostly painting this last month, playtime has been scarcer than new Epic Forge World releases these last few weeks).

I'm testing out the Epic datafile from the latest version of Army Builder (v3.2b) and it's handy-dandy "BBCode" text summary capabilities -- more on AB in a sec, though.

Without further blather....the list!


3000 Pts - Ultramarines Roster

Air Assault - Thunderhawk (1#, 200 pts)
. . 1 Thunderhawk Detachment @ 200 pts
. . . . 1 Thunderhawk (Battle Cannon; Twin Heavy Bolter x4; Planetfall; Reinforced Armour)

Air Assault - Assault Detachment (4#, 225 pts)
. . 1 Assault Detachment @ 225 pts
. . . . 1 Commander
. . . . . . 1 Chaplain (Power Weapon; Inspiring; Invulnerable Save; Leader)
. . . . 4 Assault Squad (Bolt Pistol; Chainsword; Jump Packs)

Air Assault - Devastator Detachment (4#, 250 pts)
. . 1 Devastator Detachment @ 250 pts
. . . . 4 Devastator Squad (Missile Launcher x2)

Detachment: Terminator Detachment (4#, 325 pts)
. . 1 Terminator Detachment @ 325 pts
. . . . 4 Terminators (Assault Cannon x2; Power Weapon; Stormbolters; Reinforced Armour; Reinforced Armour; Teleport)

Tactical Detachment with Surpreme Commander (10#, 450 pts)
. . 1 Tactical Detachment @ 450 pts
. . . . 1 Commander
. . . . . . 1 Supreme Commander (Power Weapon; Invulnerable Save; Leader)
. . . . 6 Tactical Squad (Bolters; Missile Launcher)
. . . . 1 Razorback (Heavy Bolter) (Twin Heavy Bolter)
. . . . 1 Razorback (Lascannon) (Twin-linked Lascannon)
. . . . 2 Rhino (Stormbolters)

Detachment: Devastator Detachment (7#, 525 pts)
. . 1 Devastator Detachment @ 525 pts
. . . . 4 Devastator Squad (Missile Launcher x2)
. . . . 1 Hunter (Hunter Killer)
. . . . 2 Land Raider (Heavy Bolter; Twin-linked Lascannon x2; Reinforced Armour; Thick Rear Armour)

Detachment: Whirlwind Detachment (5#, 375 pts)
. . 1 Whirlwind Detachment @ 375 pts
. . . . 1 Hunter (Hunter Killer)
. . . . 4 Whirlwind (Whirlwind)

Titan: Reaver Battlegroup (1#, 650 pts)
. . 1 Reaver Battlegroup @ 650 pts
. . . . 1 Reaver (Mars Pattern) Battle Titan (Titan Rocket Launcher; Turbo-Laser Destructors x2; Fearless; Reinforced Armour; Walker)

Total Roster Cost: 3000

OK, a few notes. Yes, I know this isn't an optimized death-or-glory win-at-all-costs list. Yes, I have a Reaver and I know I probably shouldn't, but the whole reason I wanted to play Epic in the first place (even before I wanted to play 40K! (I think I've mentioned this before) was TITANS, bigod, so until I get my greasy fingers on a Warlord, the Reaver it is!)

Anyway...yeah. It's been a fun list. Lemme tell ya, that Reaver sure costs a pretty pound of points but it just makes other units disappear....or forces them to deal with it. I haven't lost it in a game yet...but I've come very, very close.

I'm pretty sure the list is self-explanatory. I know only having one tactical detachment is probably the biggest weakness, but fortunately the air assault elements make up for that (and HOW!, usually, in the form of swoop-in-kick-some-***-and-get-the-hell-out tasty DEATH, thankyouverymuch!).

The thing I'm most happy with is I'm about 50-60% complete on painting this army up. It's taken a whole LOT of getting used to painting at this scale but I have to admit it's been lot of FUN, too.

The other awesome thing is -- thanks to some good finds on Ebay, I have more than enough Epic models for now. A pair of Thunderhawks, a Warhound, command, bikes, speeders, pretty much everything I want...well, except for a landing craft and Warlord titan...but hey, you can't get everything all at once, now can you? :)

So...go ahead, comment away on the list. I'm very curious as to what others think about it.



....and now we'll discuss Army Builder.

Normally, you shouldn't post the points values for GW units, but considering you can download the rules in several forms, I'm pretty sure there's no potential for lost income due to IP/trade/copy-right masturbation. Seriously, though, I'm not being ballsy here for the sake of being ballsy...I want you to take a close look at the list and do a compare/contrast with the points values that AB's "latest" Epic datafile contains and tell me where you see them being out-of-touch with reality. I've already done this, but I'd like independent confirmation.

Basically....what I'm saying is, the datafile for Epic is -- how do you say? "non-current"? I think that's a suitably accurate statement.

Now, not being one just to ***** (well, OK, sometimes I am) but what I'd like to do is actually update the damned datafile. I love Army Builder. I dare say if I can't make a list in AB....well, I'm probably not going to be making a list. I know, I know...yes, there are a ton of other ways to do it but AB is where I'm at and I have a feeling it's where the majority of the gaming community is, too. And this inaccurate Epic datafile travesty must stop! Or there will be...well, probably no consequences whatsoever but hey it sounded good to say that. :)

What I'm trying to say (and failing my "Be Succinct" skill check again doing it, too) is anyone wanna help me get this datafile business figured out? Know where I can find a tutorial or three on AB datafile hackery (up-to-date, ones that is, the ones I've seen have been pretty obsolete themselves)?

And so...that's it. Discuss!!

floppy
01-10-2010, 04:16 PM
Firstly it is a cool list..

2ndly, I did do alot of data file stuff once, it is all in XML. There is not any tutorials out there as far as I am aware.

I stopped doing data file stuff, because of the over complicated nature of it. In version 2 it was quite a bit simpler. with V3 you have far more options to do nice things with the lists and file, but it takes along time.
I also got jacked with people demanding the files the day after a new army list was released. (I did this for a different game system) .

If you need somebody to check them I can, and will fix any problems I see.

I will try to find a tutorial, there will be one out there somewhere, I jsut haven't seen it.

I also get jacked with people saying Armybuilder is always wrong. but it is more like my mistakes, and then people dont say anything. Infact I might have play with the current file today and have a bit of a gander at it.

Another Random Geek
01-10-2010, 08:08 PM
Yeah, the EA armybuilder program can be a bit screwy, though I've not noticed any point errors. When making my Ork list however, I did notice that it didn't get the memo in the BRB about there being no limit to the amount of extra boyz stands you add in a mob, (it seemed to think you could only add one.) Regrettably, I have the computing skills of a caveman, so I can't really help you there. Also, it's great that you can paint the little guys. I have to save up and pay people to paint my epic minis. (3k pro-painted Blood Angels and Bad Moonz, for those who haven't read the other thread.)

Anyway, on to the list itself. I'm fairly new at Epic, so you've probably got a better grasp of things than I do, but here's what sticks out to me:

I really don't see why the devastators need Land Raiders, IMHO, they're kinda overpriced for bus duty. You could ditch them for Rhinos and buy a Bike detachment, or, if you use the extra 200 points for a strike cruiser, drop pods. (I dunno if I'd do that or not though, my Epic mentor,who ironically enough is an Ultramarine player named Joe, swears Strike Cruisers are hideously broken. I can't speak from personal experience.) I also don't really see why two hunters are necessary, unless your opponent has the 9-plane Ork Fighta-Bomma squadron of doom. That being said, I like the list, and am glad you're using the Reaver, as it is a great model, and deserves a better fate than collecting dust on the shelf.

CrusherJoe
01-11-2010, 06:51 AM
Firstly it is a cool list..

2ndly, I did do alot of data file stuff once, it is all in XML. There is not any tutorials out there as far as I am aware.

I stopped doing data file stuff, because of the over complicated nature of it. In version 2 it was quite a bit simpler. with V3 you have far more options to do nice things with the lists and file, but it takes along time.
I also got jacked with people demanding the files the day after a new army list was released. (I did this for a different game system) .

If you need somebody to check them I can, and will fix any problems I see.

I will try to find a tutorial, there will be one out there somewhere, I jsut haven't seen it.

I also get jacked with people saying Armybuilder is always wrong. but it is more like my mistakes, and then people dont say anything. Infact I might have play with the current file today and have a bit of a gander at it.

Thanks! Glad you like the list.

There are points values that aren't right. I don't remember which ones we found when I trotted this army out last time I played. I'll go over it with a fine-toothed comb and see what I find.

Thanks for the offer to help -- I have a feeling I'll take you up on it and maybe between the two of us we can give a lil' something back to the (from what I've seen, immensely friendly and helpful) Epic community in general. :)




Yeah, the EA armybuilder program can be a bit screwy, though I've not noticed any point errors. When making my Ork list however, I did notice that it didn't get the memo in the BRB about there being no limit to the amount of extra boyz stands you add in a mob, (it seemed to think you could only add one.) Regrettably, I have the computing skills of a caveman, so I can't really help you there. Also, it's great that you can paint the little guys. I have to save up and pay people to paint my epic minis. (3k pro-painted Blood Angels and Bad Moonz, for those who haven't read the other thread.)

Anyway, on to the list itself. I'm fairly new at Epic, so you've probably got a better grasp of things than I do, but here's what sticks out to me:

I really don't see why the devastators need Land Raiders, IMHO, they're kinda overpriced for bus duty. You could ditch them for Rhinos and buy a Bike detachment, or, if you use the extra 200 points for a strike cruiser, drop pods. (I dunno if I'd do that or not though, my Epic mentor,who ironically enough is an Ultramarine player named Joe, swears Strike Cruisers are hideously broken. I can't speak from personal experience.) I also don't really see why two hunters are necessary, unless your opponent has the 9-plane Ork Fighta-Bomma squadron of doom. That being said, I like the list, and am glad you're using the Reaver, as it is a great model, and deserves a better fate than collecting dust on the shelf.

Yeah...there are definitely some issues with the datafile....but man, there's really nothing better than AB for making army lists.

Now as for the list itself...

I'll admit the Devs have the Land Raiders mainly because....because Land Raiders are as iconic to Space Marines as power armor and bolters. , :) Good grief, I've included sub-optimal units for fluff reasons. I'm going to need to do some penance for that somewhere I'll wager... but then again, Land Raiders are pretty hard to kill...and the combined firepower of the LRs + Devs is pretty impressive.

But I wouldn't mind tossing some bikes on the table...or some speeders. Aaaah, it's good to have options. :)
Hmm.

I have two Hunters because they're the only AA options for Marines. With two I can cover most of the airspace and get at least one shot at anything flying that might otherwise arrive in my backfield unmolested. I call it somewhat cheap insurance.

And the Reaver rocks. One alpha-strike from it has made entire detachments of armor disappear. It's pretty awe-inspiring. :)

Thanks for the comments, guys! Keep 'em coming!

Another Random Geek
01-11-2010, 07:37 PM
I like Land Raiders as much as the next guy, but if you wanna upgrade that Reaver to a Warlord, they're the most logical thing to get rid of, IMHO. ;)

Hena
01-16-2010, 03:13 PM
I would suggest moving the Hunter from Whirlwinds to Tacticals. In whirlwinds it rarely does anything except wait for air aircraft. For Tactical it can probably get some targets for that AT4+ shot. Two Hunters in general are a bit small AA defence but will probably do (I tend to use Tbolts and 1 Hunter minimum).

CrusherJoe
01-17-2010, 12:17 PM
I'll try out moving the Hunters around. I have that one with the Whirlwinds mainly because in my (limited) experience I found that if a Hunter is roaming around with Tacs it has a tendecy to get shot....a lot. However, lurking around the backfield with the WW it tends to either stay out of range and/or LOS, and thus live a lot longer. YMMV, of course.

Hena
01-17-2010, 01:25 PM
My favourite place to put Hunter is the Predators. So 4 Annihilators and Hunter. That's 8 AT5+ and 5 AT4+ shots. In addition to AA Hunter allows few tricks to be pulled.

1. Range. Hunters range is 60cm. So if you get into place where range is extreme it's nice to have a unit that can hang back and let the 45cm mark be filled with Predators.
2. Suppression. You have one unit there that affects less to the overall firepower. So if you have enough BMs putting Hunter back to be suppressed allows more Annihilators to fire. This is of course combined to point 1 so the range is of no problem if Predators can fire.

Then again I'm a tread head almost. Is why I have made a Marine Tank Army for Epic :).