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drummerholt1234
08-03-2009, 11:25 AM
1. Protect your Hive Tyrants with Tyrant Guards like a squirrel protects his nuts. They are the ball of the army but don't be afraid to whip it out if ya have too .
2. Outflanking Genestealers are the first step to raping a gunline or any army for that matter.
3. Monstrous Creatures win fights...but WoN gaunts win missions.
4. Never pay more that 6pts for a gaunt without WoN and 9pts for a gaunt with WoN.
5. Boomfexes and Walking Dakkarants=WIN!!!
6. Get one zoanthope with only synapse and keep it in the nest out of LOS (deployment zone) for WoN gaunts.

Not the only way but one of the most competitive ways!

RocketRollRebel
08-03-2009, 03:22 PM
Good points there. I dont play Tyranids but I do face them quite frequently and those tend to all be things that give me lots of trouble. Especially the outflanking genesteller party! :p

Chumbalaya
08-03-2009, 05:15 PM
Outflanking is fail, otherwise I'd agree.

Bugs need to handle armor and the are unfortunately bad at it. The next best plan is to shake it enough and grind them down with a ton of MCs.

VinceBlack
08-03-2009, 05:21 PM
Good post alot of good information. The idea of using scuttling genestesalers to outflank combined with a lictor to give them rerolls to hit due to his feeder tendrils in a tandum attack, as well as a reroll to get them in exactly when the time is right from his pheremone trail makes a very effective meatgrinder. Cant wait to see the new nids codex but I still think that they are a viable army now just have rethink strategy.

drummerholt1234
08-03-2009, 05:40 PM
Unfortunately the Lictor is over priced at the moment IMO.

It will be better in the next dex here is why:

1. He will cost less (or have better stats to justify his points)
2. His Pheromone Trail power will be more like the Astropath in that it will be a +1 and reroll on the outflank chart (that's my guess)
3. He may have that power weapon power that the brood lord has.
4. He will have some different upgades that you can give him.
Thats just what I think will happen based on how the recent dexes have been writen (It's not a rumor just my guess).

@Chumbalaya

Outflanking is not fail. Outflanking a whole army without a modifier like an astropath is fail. One outflanking stealer squad will force the opponent to bunch up slightly or possibly lose a key unit to the stealers. It is true that outflanking can be countered and I do read ******'s blog. ;) Just my humble opinion.

Old_Paladin
08-03-2009, 06:16 PM
Outflanking stealers into a gunline is dangerous for them. You better pick your first target really well, cuz you probably won't be seeing a second. Poor armour and limited numbers means they'll be wiped out if caught in the open with shooting.

Now, if well placed, it could work. You'd need to charge two units. Throw the bulk of your attacks at one, and destroy it. That leaves you tied up with the other unit, that you pile-in to. On your opponents turn, finish the second unit off. This leaves you free to do what you want on your turn, and you haven't been shot.

drummerholt1234
08-03-2009, 06:24 PM
Outflanking stealers into a gunline is dangerous for them. You better pick your first target really well, cuz you probably won't be seeing a second. Poor armour and limited numbers means they'll be wiped out if caught in the open with shooting.

That is very true. Target choice for this tactic comes with experience. You have to pick the target that will take 2 CC phases to fully wipe out not just the one you will run right over. That way, you skip the opponents shooting phase.

Your second point is also correct :)

Old_Paladin
08-03-2009, 06:46 PM
That is very true. Target choice for this tactic comes with experience. You have to pick the target that will take 2 CC phases to fully wipe out not just the one you will run right over. That way, you skip the opponents shooting phase.

This is a danger in 5th ed. though. Unless you are blessed with a choice or targets that are stubborn or fearless. You'll need to take out over hlaf the squad (to make sure you are likely to finish the other half next round), but also want to minimize your own losses.
Because of the moral modifier, they are likely to break. Say a target unit of 10, you should kill 5-6, say you have 2 losses; thats still a -3 to leadership to them. Say it was a unit with Ld 9, now its 6, and they could run. But it's also not worth it to take more losses to balance it out; if 4 stealers died, then now they might be too weak to do more damage.

drummerholt1234
08-03-2009, 07:01 PM
I agree that it is dangerous. That why it takes experience to pull it off. You have to know which units you can hit/not hit. Ya know what I'm saying?

RocketRollRebel
08-03-2009, 07:10 PM
Outflanking is fail, otherwise I'd agree.

Bugs need to handle armor and the are unfortunately bad at it. The next best plan is to shake it enough and grind them down with a ton of MCs.

I'm curious why you say out flanking steelers is fail? Aside from the kind of high price tag I don't see much of a down side to it. Add a lictor and you get a reroll for your reserves and with fleet and move through cover you stand a decent chance at sinking your claws into a juicy target. I think it's one of the better ways for 'Nids to take out enemy armor.

Xas
08-03-2009, 07:10 PM
you are posting this everyhwere, right? ^^

on a serious note to outflanking:
if you use 4+ save stealers for this trick and your oponent kills them after they killed their first target it is not allways a bad thing. saveing most AP weapons 50% means your other units dont get shot down (and t4 sv4 is the msot sturdy you can get their AP weapons to shoot at as a tyranid player).

this is partly why I dont like a 100% stealer shock. because in pure stealer shock each unit has to earn their points because you dont have another swarm to cover for -.-

Old_Paladin
08-03-2009, 07:11 PM
Yeah, I hear what you're saying.

I'm also glad that 'Nids take more thought and consideration then the old 3rd ed codex. (winged, fleet, leaping mutants craziness; venom cannon ripper swarms... the nightmares... the nightmares...).

drummerholt1234
08-03-2009, 07:19 PM
I'm curious why you say out flanking steelers is fail? Aside from the kind of high price tag I don't see much of a down side to it. Add a lictor and you get a reroll for your reserves and with fleet and move through cover you stand a decent chance at sinking your claws into a juicy target. I think it's one of the better ways for 'Nids to take out enemy armor.

Here is why he thinks that outflanking sucks...


Why Outflanking Sucks... (http://www.****************.com/2009/01/warhammer-40k-outflanking-why-its-***.html)

Sorry the link is broken because the people on this blog hate that great site...

RocketRollRebel
08-03-2009, 08:13 PM
I agree that tyranids aren't quite the kill stick army that they once were and definatly require a bit more thought these days, especially gene steelers. You can't build an army of them anymore and I'd say that they are over priced. Out flanking helps keep them alive untill they can reach their target and is in my opinion the most effective way to deploy them otherwise they are going to have a real hard time getting across the board even with extended carapace.

Flyrant probably took an even bigger hit in 5th to the point where it isn't considered for competative play. Tyrant with guards can be a serious pain to deal with tho.

Chumbalaya
08-03-2009, 08:19 PM
I'm curious why you say out flanking steelers is fail? Aside from the kind of high price tag I don't see much of a down side to it. Add a lictor and you get a reroll for your reserves and with fleet and move through cover you stand a decent chance at sinking your claws into a juicy target. I think it's one of the better ways for 'Nids to take out enemy armor.

It's not just what he-who-must-not-be-named said, he confirmed what I had suspected for some time.

Outflanking brings you to a random board edge on a random turn. If you know there are outflanking units, you can adapt to them. Put buffer units on your flank to absorb charges or shield your important units, mount up and stay mobile, control midfield and make them cross long board edges to get to you, and the like.

Against a static gunline run by a chump they will be awesome, but that doesn't really prove their worth.

I'll outflank a Deff Kopta or Sentinels because I know they're expendable and annoying, but basing your main assault on it will see you punished for it.

vharing
08-03-2009, 08:41 PM
I just bought my first nid army yesterday and was looking for stuff about them on the forums. I have a stupid question to ask though. What is a WoN gaunt? I play DE and BA so I have never heard that term.

RocketRollRebel
08-03-2009, 08:43 PM
I agree that it's not a great idea to base your army around it and there are ways to deal with it but it certanly is a pain to have to deal with a few units of them poping up on your flanks. I guess my main arguement is that out flanking is the best way to deploy them. Otherwise I don't think genesteelers are the threat that they used to be in 4th.

drummerholt1234
08-03-2009, 08:44 PM
I just bought my first nid army yesterday and was looking for stuff about them on the forums. I have a stupid question to ask though. What is a WoN gaunt? I play DE and BA so I have never heard that term.

Basically it is a brood of gaunt that after destroyed can (they don't have too - that helps in KP games :) ) reenter play from your board edge. They are good as scoring units when taken in small broods.

drummerholt1234
08-03-2009, 08:46 PM
I agree that it's not a great idea to base your army around it and there are ways to deal with it but it certanly is a pain to have to deal with a few units of them poping up on your flanks. I guess my main arguement is that out flanking is the best way to deploy them. Otherwise I don't think genesteelers are the threat that they used to be in 4th.

The genestealers lost some punch with rending but gained a great special rule with preferred enemy.

RocketRollRebel
08-03-2009, 09:00 PM
The genestealers lost some punch with rending but gained a great special rule with preferred enemy.

very true. Lotta zoidberg bugs out there these days :p. I'd imagine that that biomorph will be seeing a points bump in the next codex

drummerholt1234
08-03-2009, 09:06 PM
very true. Lotta zoidberg bugs out there these days :p. I'd imagine that that biomorph will be seeing a points bump in the next codex

Yes it will but other things will be dropped in points so it will even out probably.

Chumbalaya
08-04-2009, 06:34 AM
If your bugs are based on shooty MCs blowing things away, Genestealers have a use a protectors. Shooty MCs aren't good in combat, so sit Genestealers nearby to intercept assaulters going after them.

Old_Paladin
08-04-2009, 03:51 PM
Shooty MCs aren't good in combat.

It's still a MC; Str:5+ (or 9!!); good toughness, lots of wounds, good armour save, 3-5 attacks on the charge. Do 2d6 against AV. They still bust vehicles and smoosh infantry, and are only 2 attacks less a round then the fully taloned MC's.

drummerholt1234
08-04-2009, 04:03 PM
A boomfex and a dakkarant with gaurds is decent in CC and if you have feeder tendril close by then they are even better!

Chumbalaya
08-04-2009, 08:53 PM
Blasty fexes really aren't all that hot, but a Tyrant with Guards can do some damage.

Tom
08-06-2009, 07:01 AM
I've had some fantastic successes with outflanking genestealers. I run 3 squads of 7 'stealers with feeder tendrils and scuttlers in 2000 points. As my usual opponent is Imperial Guard (gunline) and 'stealers can take on any vehicles (my greatest success being the destruction of two Leman Russes by 6 'stealers. They were a squadron and i rolled enough imobilised results) or charge multiple infantry squads to ensure I stay in combat for at least two rounds.

I also enjoyed using outflanking termaguants on occasion. My most notable achievement was a brood of outflanking termaguants were whittled down to a single guant, to avoid me recycling them, which then went on to charge a 10 man guard infantry squad through cover in an effort to die. I won combat and caught the squad in sweeping advance. Good times :)

Tom

Rafe_131
08-06-2009, 08:32 AM
If I try to hit flanks with my stealers, (which I don't usually do) I run a gaunt screen ahead of them. It's kinda a 1-2 punch in that the gaunts tie up the first squad, and the stealers can move past...But it can bite you in the back side if your gaunts fail to do their job.

I generally use stealers and a broodlord as a hammer, not a knife. They make very good hero/leader killers with the right biomorphs.

drummerholt1234
08-14-2009, 11:21 PM
Bump...

Because I felt like it :p

Nidnub
09-02-2009, 10:03 AM
Interesting points, I can never help but put either catalyst if I'm scraping points, or Warp Blast on my thropes though because they always seem to make their points back then.

Superbran
09-02-2009, 03:50 PM
I like the lictor/outflanking genestealers combo. It can definitely be brutal. Even if the genestealers wipe the unit they assault, you should be able to massacre move them so that the gunline player only has one or two units that can shoot at them without cover. At that point, they might be able to make their points back just by sucking up fire. As always, this is situational.

Warmaster Primus
09-03-2009, 06:50 AM
1. Protect your Hive Tyrants with Tyrant Guards like a squirrel protects his nuts. They are the ball of the army but don't be afraid to whip it out if ya have too .
2. Outflanking Genestealers are the first step to raping a gunline or any army for that matter.
3. Monstrous Creatures win fights...but WoN gaunts win missions.
4. Never pay more that 6pts for a gaunt without WoN and 9pts for a gaunt with WoN.
5. Boomfexes and Walking Dakkarants=WIN!!!
6. Get one zoanthope with only synapse and keep it in the nest out of LOS (deployment zone) for WoN gaunts.

Not the only way but one of the most competitive ways!

So you're saying that we should whip out our nuts to rape our opponents?

:)