New orks deathstar equivalent?

[Stoeks88]

Warboss (135)
-warbike
-pk
-Lucky stikk

Painboy (80)
-warbike
-grot orderly

Big Mek (120)
-Blitzbike
-KFF

Nob Bikers x10 (525)
-3x pk's

I know the nob bikers is an old stand by tactic, but with the KFF mixed in there, I think this build has pretty stout legs to stand upon. Loads of wounds to take and to give out. S10 is still and issue, but orkes know that. What thinks ye...?

[Path Walker]

I think for the points, you're not really getting enough survivability, once you get them into combat, they're going to be good, but again, you're paying a lot for that.
I think deathstars of most kinds just aren't a reliable use of points now.

[Caitsidhe]

Warboss (135)
-warbike
-pk
-Lucky stikk

Painboy (80)
-warbike
-grot orderly

Big Mek (120)
-Blitzbike
-KFF

Nob Bikers x10 (525)
-3x pk's

I know the nob bikers is an old stand by tactic, but with the KFF mixed in there, I think this build has pretty stout legs to stand upon. Loads of wounds to take and to give out. S10 is still and issue, but orkes know that. What thinks ye...?

Pathfinder and I agree on this one. To put it in perspective that is a whole lot of eggs in a single basket. What are you going to do against Helldrakes? I know that sounds daft, but high strength AP-3 flame templates aren't that hard to find (even without Helldrakes). I run into Ravenwing, Nurgle Bikers, and Nob Bikers fairly frequently and the outcome is always the same. You are going "all in" or "all or nothing" with that kind of build. I would eat it for lunch.

[Houghten]

Here's a different kind of nasty: take a mob of Meganobz from the Ghazghkull's Bullyboyz detachment with their +1WS, and attach a character with the Lucky Stikk. The Stikk explicitly doesn't stakk with a Waaagh! banner, but it doesn't say anything about Bullyboyz, so they get to be WS6.

[DarkLink]

Pathfinder and I agree on this one. To put it in perspective that is a whole lot of eggs in a single basket. What are you going to do against Helldrakes? I know that sounds daft, but high strength AP-3 flame templates aren't that hard to find (even without Helldrakes). I run into Ravenwing, Nurgle Bikers, and Nob Bikers fairly frequently and the outcome is always the same. You are going "all in" or "all or nothing" with that kind of build. I would eat it for lunch.

So the Seer Council, Draigowing, Beaststar, Ovesastar, etc were never actually any good?

[Caitsidhe]

So the Seer Council, Draigowing, Beaststar, Ovesastar, etc were never actually any good?

I think all of those are good> :D All of those have tricks available to them that an Ork Biker deathstar can't do, the biggest of which is an Invulnerable save.

[DarkLink]

Can nob bikers no longer get cybork bodies? And remember that nob biker armies were just as hard as anything else on that list, it was the rest of their book that was the weak link in that army.

[Caitsidhe]

Can nob bikers no longer get cybork bodies? And remember that nob biker armies were just as hard as anything else on that list, it was the rest of their book that was the weak link in that army.

Nope. They took the invulnerable save away from them.

[Lord Krungharr]

But the KFF provides a 5++ now doesn't it?

Can Ork Wierdboyz get Biomancy? Endurance on the Bikers would be AMAZING!

Heldrakes could be in trouble if there are those Traktor Beams backing up the bikes on da Skyshield.

[Power Klawz]

Weirdboyz only get ork powers or daemonology. The ork powers are pretty good at making things dead if you can get them off, there's one power in there that gives their unit +1 attack but that would only serve to make the unit killier in close combat, but really I can't easily think of anything that unit wouldn't kill easily all ready if it got into combat with it. Of course Weirdboyz can't take bikes, so they really wouldn't be compatible with this sort of setup.

Big meks, Warbosses and Painboyz can take bikes, and all 3 can serve up some tasty buff to the unit, but its really doesn't meet one of the major criteria of being a Deathstar unit, which is a broken level of survivability. I mean sure, a bunch of toughness 5, 2 wound models rolling around with 4+ armor saves, 3+ jink cover saves and 5++ invulnerable saves backed up by 5+ feel no pain saves isn't exactly what I'd call squishy, but its no 2++ rerollable either.

Still, it will kill everything that doesn't have wings. (And hell, with its high volume of moderate strength, twin linked shooting attacks, it just might take down a few aircraft into the bargain.) but you're talking about 800+ points invested. Once it starts losing models or you take an unlucky demolisher shell to the gribbly bits, that's basically game over.

If you're going to throw over 800 points into something and you want to be as trolltastic as possible, just plop a big mek with KFF and the fixer upperz in a stompa with grot riggers. You can toss in a mob of burnas with 3 meks for extra repair roll shenanigans. Now you've got a super heavy kill-bot with a 5++, it will not die and a whole dealership worth of factory certified technicians in its HUGE GUTS.

I mean if you're just trying to be unfriendly.

Some napkin Warmaths for the aforementioned Nob Biker Death Krew.

Amount of MEQ bolter shots it would take to kill: 385 (LOL)
Amount of GEQ Flashlight Tags it would take to kill: 1350 (LOLOLOL)
Amount of super buffed tau pulse rifle shots it would take (BS5): 195
Amount of MEQ steaming hot plasma shots (not the mixed drink): 108
Amount of lucky demolisher cannon shots it would take: 1 (well the warboss might walk away from it at least.)

Amount of things dead when the unit charges: All of the things

Them being so tuff and big, even nightmare, worst case scenarios like charging a big unit of berserkers with Chain axes won't result in the loss of more than 3 nobz on average before they get the chance to attack back and wipe out the unit. That is their real and sort of ironic Achilles heel though, while they're tear-assing around the board they're almost unkillable, but as soon as they plop themselves in close combat they lose their cover saves and invulnerable save and are left with a mediocre 4+ armor save and low initiative, especially the ones with PKs. Any other sort of dedicated close combat squad is going to take a big wet bite out of their behinds before going down, making this unit sort of a glass cannon strangely enough. I mean, at least as far as Death Stars go.

In fact,it sort of makes me wonder if it wouldn't be better to just lose the nobz entirely and go with regular biker boyz. Pair them up with a KFF mek and a painboy and forget about the warboss, run around the board with nigh-unkillable wackos shooting their twin linked dakkaguns at everything and turbo boosting for late game objective grabs. You'd save a brick of points and if you really needed them to charge something well, hell they're still orks and will give a decent scrap, and if you lose a few you won't necessarily lose the entire game due to putting all your violent green eggs in one smoke belching, mechanical basket.

With the way that hit allocation works, you wouldn't necessarily have to bunch up the unit unrealistically (and therefore expose yourself to aoe attacks unduly) to get the full effect of the new KFF either. As long as you don't have units shooting you from behind you can just make sure that the big mek is within 6 inches of the front of the unit which is facing towards the enemy, unless they toss out enough firepower to mowdown that half of the unit it won't matter if a few stragglers in the back are out of the 6 inch radius. To extrapolate the numbers I gave before, in order to kill a single ork it would take about 14 MEQ bolter shots, which is practically the output of an entire tac squad. (it would take 28 to kill a nob, obviously due to his higher wound count.)

[Mr.Pickelz]

With Zhadsnark from Forgeworld's IA: 8, the regular Bikerz are moved to Troops, and if he starts the game joined to a unit, the whole unit gains Scout. That allows for some good placement of a 16 strong biker squad with 3 shot, Twin-linked, guns. Zhad's rules are free on Forgeworld's website under Downloads, inside the Dread Mob's PDF update. Also to note, if you take Buzzgob, you can get a Mek Stompa as a Lords of War choice for 1/2 the cost of a normal one...

[Lord Krungharr]

You know, I like that idea of just taking the regular bikerz, not the Nobs. I could imagine some shooty-crazy Orks just zipping around shooting stuff, going fast for the sake of going fast. That would be pretty fun! Coupled with a bunch of Warbuggies too :) I'll have to check out Zhadsnark, and that Buzzgob too.

[Stoeks88]

I think all of those are good> :D All of those have tricks available to them that an Ork Biker deathstar can't do, the biggest of which is an Invulnerable save.

Except that they now do with the KFF. Grant 5++ to models within 6". Also, tried this unit out against DE last night, throughout the entire game, I lost two bikers. I had some pretty great rolls, but I survived the vast amount of shooting he had available and also walloped a fully kitted archon with some creepy melee guys, and also stomped a unit of witches with felglaives (?), in one turn. So I think this is a stellar unit and I also took a turn of ap3 template and blast from a pain engine and shrugged it off. So this is a really good unit so far, time will tell of course.

[DubMek]

Maybe it's just me but I see a HUGE potential death star unit in 2 Gorkanauts filled with 5 Burna Boys and 1 Mek embarked in each, as well as grot riggers being walked up the field with a Big Mek with KFF following behind them.

Or

2 Morkanauts filled with 5 Burna Boys and 1 Mek embarked in each with grot riggers and KFF's on each.

[Houghten]

It's just you.

Sure, you can put four sets of Mek's Tools and IWND in the same 'naut, but it can still get blown all to hell in a single shot because it's not super-heavy.

Can't repair hull points on smoking debris.

[DubMek]

I actually see a lot of potential in this set up. There is a lot of potential damage that can be dished out by a set up like this if done correctly, plus, if you have the KFF you still get the 5++, or if you go with the Ghaz book you can get access to a 4++. Having a 50/50 chance against any melta hit is great. Granted, I haven't had a chance to try this out yet but I have every intention to and I'll be happy to share the results.

[Stoeks88]

Thanks for the input and what not. I have tried that unit a few times and it has performed quite well every time. Gotta bring a morkanaut to soak high strength stuff, but it really works well. Also, 5 lobbas is very tasty, I averaged 15 hits and 10 wounds per round of firing. Again, all anecdotal and results may vary, but that is what has worked for me so far.

[Myster2]

You guys are looking at this list wrong. Drop the big mek with the KFF and kit it out for close combat. You want to turboboost every turn you can and go wreck face so you can jink. A warboss with a 3+ cover save and da lucky stick is very hard to kill. I'm debating putting him in front after the last came where he soaked up a full turn of shooting and only took a single wound.

[Stoeks88]

True, but you can't turbo boost and then assault. The invul is just a warm fuzzy security blanket for a mob that can go down to the crazy amount of ap4 or better combined with ignores cover. Shooting is the bane of the orks survivability in this age.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I played against a Biker Nob mod with the Warboss and Painboy, and it was nasty. However, Hellhounds and other AP4 Ignores Cover Templates are easy to come by, though he did roll fairly well on the FNP at times. Demolisher Cannons are also scary to a unit like this.