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Charistoph
09-19-2014, 09:33 AM
So Warhammer Fantasy doesn't have a bug race, but Tyranids seem like they would be a perfect fit. One of the first things that needs to be nailed down are the slots and unit types that they translate in to. I would ask for your help in finalizing the final result on this first step:


Unit Name40K Slot40K TypeFB SlotFB Type
Hive Tyrant HQMCLordMonster
Trygon Prim HeavyMCLordMonster

TervigonHQMCHeroMonster
Tyranid PrimeHQInfHeroMonstrous Infantry
BroodlordTroopInfHeroInfantry
ZoanthropeEliteInfHero?Infantry

WarriorTroopInfCoreMonstrous Infantry
Genestealer TroopInfCoreInfantry
TermagantTroopInfCoreInfantry
HormagauntTroopInfCoreInfantry
Ripper SwarmTroopInfCoreSwarm

Hive GuardEliteInfSpecialMonstrous Infantry
VenomthropeEliteInfSpecialMonstrous Infantry?
LictorEliteInfSpecialMonstrous Infantry?
PyrovoreEliteInfSpecialMonstrous Beast
RavenerEliteBeastSpecialMonstrous Beast
Sky-slasherFastJump InfSpecialSwarm
GargoyleFastJump InfSpecialInfantry
CarnifexHeavyMCSpecialMonster
BiovoreHeavyInfSpecialMonstrous Beast

HaruspexEliteMCRareMonster
ShrikeFastJump InfRareMonstrous Infantry
Harpy FastFMCRareMonster
Hive CroneFastFMCRareMonster
TrygonHeavyMCRareMonster
MawlocHeavyMCRareMonster
ExocrineHeavyMCRareMonster
TyrannofexHeavyMCRareMonster
Tyrant GuardHQInfRareMonstrous Infantry


So, thoughts on adjustments? It's a huge list, I know, and some trimmings may need to come in to play here and there, but this is the starting point to work with.

Charistoph
09-25-2014, 09:19 AM
After some responses on other sites, I've made some adjustments.

To help me provide some perspective, I went through and made a list of each army's non-Special units according to Role to give myself limits to how much to include. Here are the numbers:


LordsHeroesCoreSpecialRare
Fewest
2
2
3
5
2
Average
3.5
4.2
5.1
7.9
4.8
Median
3
4
5
8
5
Most
9
9
9
10
8
Total
51
62
76120
77

So this gives me numbers to shoot for and limit myself to. Unfortunately, it leaves me rather over budget on Rares, and pretty close on Specials. I've refined the list a little and will present it below after the responses.

I've relisted the units in to "families" or "Brood-lines" to help me strip down the list and refine it.

Okay, here's my revised list, Special Characters have been left out:

Unit NameCategoryTroop TypeBrood-line
Hive TyrantLordMoAlpha
Trygon PrimeLordMoBurrower/Alpha
Zoanthrope PrimeLordMIFloater/Wizard

Warrior PrimeHeroMIAlpha
ZoanthropeHeroMIFloater/Wizrd
BroodlordHeroInScout/Skirmisher

HormagauntCoreWBScuttler
TermagantCoreInScuttler
Ripper SwarmCoreSwSwarm

WarriorSpecial/Core*MIAlpha
GenestealerSpecial/Core*InScout/Skirmisher

TervigonSpecialMoBreeder
VenomthropeSpecialMIFloater
BiovoreSpecialMBArtillery
RavenerSpecialMBBurrower
GargoyleSpecialInScuttler/Flyer
CarnifexSpecialMoBrute

LictorRareMIScout/Assassin
Hive GuardRareMIGuardian
ShrikeRareMIAlpha/Flyer
HaruspexRareMoBrute
Hive CroneRareMoFlyer
MawlocRareMoBurrower
ExocrineRareMoArtillery


So with this list, here's how the changes work:
* The Hive Tyrant will still have Wings as an option, but the Trygon Prime will be his Burrower version.

* The Warrior Prime will have options to get Wings and a snake body to become a Shrike or Ravener Prime.

* Tyrants and Warriors will be able to bring Warrior Broods in to Core.

* Broodlords will bring one units of Genestealers in to Core, while Deathleaper brings all of them to Core.

* Zoanthropes will be the Wizards. I just couldn't bring myself to have MI Horrors in this army. It didn't quite feel right. However, they'll have access to the rulebook Lores while the other Psykers will only have access to the Hive's Lore.

* The Sky-slashers become an upgrade of the Rippers by adding Wings. It may be crazy powerful, but if I put the price right, it should be balanced.

* The Biovore will actually start out as the Pyrovore, at least, weapon-wise, but be upgraded from a flame-thrower to a stone-thrower.

* The Harpy and Hive Crone will be combined in to one using the Crone's name, as there are already harpies in the game and they are much smaller. Much like the Biovore, much of this will be weapon changes that make the difference. The same goes for the Trygon and Mawloc being combined and the Exocrine and Tyrannofex being combined. The names may come back up as an upgrade if the stats are sufficiently different to justify them. But this was the best way to reduce the number of choices to a more reasonable and manageable level.

I think I'll use Instinctive Behavior and Synapse in a way similar to how Animosity and Vampires work, creating limits and bonuses for the army, and allow for Synapse to be be Inspirational Presence as well.

I don't think I'll let Synapse make them Unbreakable like 40K and thus require Unstable to be balanced. I think that because of how Fantasy works, and just the innate nature of the Tyranid style, Synapse may actually replace Musicians as well. A bug blowing a horn or beating a drum doesn't quite work, but we could add a Thumper as mutation to replicate its use?

Charistoph
10-04-2014, 11:17 PM
Okay, moving on to the next stage, WEAPONS!

Let's start with the Melee Weapons, since they are much fewer, and much easier.

WeaponStrengthSpecial Rules

Scything Talons
UserAdditional Attacks
Rending Claws
UserArmour Piercing
Bonesword
UserKilling Blow
Lash Whip
UserSwiftstrike
Crushing Claws
+1Armour Piercing, Always Strikes Last, Multiple Wounds (D3)

Prehensile Pincer
UserTail Weapon
Toxinspike
1Tail Weapon, Poisoned Attacks
Thresher Scythe
4Tail Weapon, Armour Piercing, Swinging Blow
Bone Mace
8Tail Weapon, Always Strikes Last

Acid Maw
5Ignores Armour
Toxic Miasma
3Poison Cloud, One Use only, Always Strikes Last



Swiftstrike: Attacks with this weapon are made at +3 I.
Tail Weapon: A model bearing a weapon with this rule may make an additional Attack in addition to its normal attacks. This attack is made with the profile of the weapon provided and can be made against model in base contact to the model's Rear. If this attack is made to the Front, it Always Strikes Last.
Swinging Blow: A model carrying a weapon with this rule may choose to hit all models models in base contact to the front. If on a Tail Weapon, the player must choose if this Attack is against models to the front or rear.
Poison Cloud: An attack made with this weapon will hit all enemy models in base contact with the provided profile and is considered a Poisoned Attack.


So, that's how I'm targeting it. Some of it is nerfed by 40K standards, but there aren't Land Raiders, Monoliths, and Leman Russ Tanks, either.

I'm debating on giving the Crushing Claw two modes. One will be normal I use and Multiple Wounds (D3) and the other will be ASL and Multiple Wounds (D6).

Ben Manyhats Charleston
10-06-2014, 09:17 AM
I don't have any suggestions to offer, but I just wanted to say, keep it up, dude! This is really interesting!

mbielsk
10-06-2014, 10:23 AM
Great stuff! Keep it comming! Have you thought about point costs?

Charistoph
10-06-2014, 10:56 AM
Great stuff! Keep it comming! Have you thought about point costs?

Not quite, yet. As I mentioned, I've made a little matrix that will help me with that, a little. I'm going to worry about that when I finalize weapon loadouts and statistics.

One of the hardest ones will be the Carnifex. Str 9 is VERY powerful in Fantasy (and quite rare), and unless I want to drop it back to Rare and swap it with the Haruspex, I will need to step it back a little.

Oddly enough, one of the things that is causing me some fits is how to work the Devourer and Deathspitter. They can be quite common on the 40K models (especially the Devourer), but a Str 4, Multi-Shot (3) weapon, even range 18", is rather powerful, but available as default on the Warriors and an upgrade on almost every classic unit. I may just need to hold back on its availability to Champions, Heroes, and Lords, but even then it's quite strong. Multi-Shot (2) may be better...

PaladinSL
10-06-2014, 01:41 PM
Oddly enough, one of the things that is causing me some fits is how to work the Devourer and Deathspitter.

I don't really know WHFB very well, but my first thought was basically along these lines, Tyranids are capable of being built in an incredibly shootie manner and I haven't ever seen a WHFB army with that sort of shooting.

Other than that, she's coming along nicely, top work mate!

Charistoph
10-06-2014, 01:54 PM
I don't really know WHFB very well, but my first thought was basically along these lines, Tyranids are capable of being built in an incredibly shootie manner and I haven't ever seen a WHFB army with that sort of shooting.

Yeah, that level of shooting is usually limited to magic, War Machines, or Rare Monsters. The closest weapons that have Multi-Shot available to regular units are the Brace of Pistols, Dark Elves' Repeater Crossbows, Lizardmen Blowguns, and Empire's Repeater Handgun (which oddly is Multi-Shot (3) that MIGHT make me feel better).

Anggul
10-07-2014, 09:13 AM
Rather than making up a 'Zoanthrope Prime' I would just have the Hive Tyrant performing the dual roles of combat and wizard lord because that's what they do.

I guess synapse creatures will grant immune to psychology and unbreakable to units in 12". That's going to be pretty immense in Fantasy.

Charistoph
10-07-2014, 12:08 PM
Rather than making up a 'Zoanthrope Prime' I would just have the Hive Tyrant performing the dual roles of combat and wizard lord because that's what they do.

The reason I included/created the Zoanthrope Prime was that the Zoanthrope line would have access to BRB lores as well as the Hive's, while any other that would be Psykers would only have access to the Lore of the Hive Mind. This difference more than makes up the difference, I believe.


I guess synapse creatures will grant immune to psychology and unbreakable to units in 12". That's going to be pretty immense in Fantasy.

That's one option, if I want to make them exactly like 40K, but that would mean that anything in Synapse would have to be Unstable as well. As it is, many things will have to be toned down, so instead of being Bug-Undead or Bug-Daemon, I want it to operate a bit differently.

As I said at the end of Post #2:
"I think I'll use Instinctive Behavior and Synapse in a way similar to how Animosity and Vampires work, creating limits and bonuses for the army, and allow for Synapse to be be Inspirational Presence as well.

I don't think I'll let Synapse make them Unbreakable like 40K and thus require Unstable to be balanced. I think that because of how Fantasy works, and just the innate nature of the Tyranid style, Synapse may actually replace Musicians as well. A bug blowing a horn or beating a drum doesn't quite work, but we could add a Thumper as mutation to replicate its use?"

Broodingman87
10-29-2014, 01:34 AM
The thing that really gets me about converting 40K to FB is all the blast and templete weapons. I've only seen fantasy play one time but, the thought of those nice compacted trays of troops getting targeted by a Biovore brood.