Incubi, and a ludicrously costly way to get them assault grenades.

[YorkNecromancer]

So four Incubi get into a Venom and bring Karandras along, 'case he'e just admitted that yes, he does know their Secret OriginsTM. They then fly out of a Webway Gate dropped by their friendly neighbourhood Haemonculi (who's decided to hide amongst his friends, the meat-shield Grotesques) and smash the absolute sh!t out of everyone's face because they're bestest friends forever.

Now, yes, they are an insane amount of points for what is basically a unit of Terminator-killers, but what do people think?

I reckon it'd work.

[Krayd]

So four Incubi get into a Venom and bring Karandras along, 'case he'e just admitted that yes, he does know their Secret OriginsTM. They then fly out of a Webway Gate dropped by their friendly neighbourhood Haemonculi (who's decided to hide amongst his friends, the meat-shield Grotesques) and smash the absolute sh!t out of everyone's face because they're bestest friends forever.

Now, yes, they are an insane amount of points for what is basically a unit of Terminator-killers, but what do people think?

I reckon it'd work.

Well, you can put Karandras in a venom with 4 incubi and then deep-strike the venom using it's built-in deep strike ability. You won't be able to use the webway portal unless you can pack a haemonculus into the squad, because all WWP does in the new codex is allow the WWP-bearer and its attached unit/transport to deepstrike with no error.

Alternatively, you could put 3 incubi, Karandras, and a haemonculus all together in a venom and *then* use the webway portal to pop up wherever you want.

Though, really, if point costs aren't so much an issue, just pack 8 incubi, Karandras, and a haemonculus in a raider instead.

[Mr Mystery]

And hope to buggery you don't get knocked out the air in the following shooting phase :p

[Tokunator]

The funny thing is, it still would not give them assault grenades because they now only work for models equipped with them, not units. So Karandras would not get the Ini penalty, but the Incubi would still be Ini 1

[Krayd]

And hope to buggery you don't get knocked out the air in the following shooting phase :p

Well, as long as you don't get hit with flamers or get a 'vehicle explodes!' result, then that would probably be fine. If the vehicle wrecks, you just need to pass the pin check, and then disembark on the opposite side of the wreckage, which you should be able to use as cover (maybe even LOS-blocking cover).

[YorkNecromancer]

The funny thing is, it still would not give them assault grenades because they now only work for models equipped with them, not units. So Karandras would not get the Ini penalty, but the Incubi would still be Ini 1

http://media1.giphy.com/media/sIE0hveuiwCNG/giphy.gif

Right that's it, f*** 7th edition.

If anyone wants me, I'll be playing 6th until 8th shows up.

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Sulking_2ae893_4478745.gif

[Houghten]

I hate to break it to you, but the rule is worded pretty much the same way in 6th...

7th Edition: Models equipped with assault grenades don't suffer the penalty to their Initiative for charging enemies through difficult terrain, but fight at their normal Initiative in the ensuing combat.

6th Edition: Models equipped with assault grenades don't suffer the penalty to their Initiative for charging enemies through cover, but fight at their normal Initiative in the ensuing combat.

5th Edition: Models equipped with assault grenades don't suffer the penalty to their Initiative for assaulting enemies through cover, but fight as normal.

4th Edition: Models armed with frag grenades that are charging enemy in or behind cover fight with Initiative 10, so they strike blows simultaneously with the defenders.

I'm not sure about 3rd or 2nd; my copy of 3rd is a little inaccessible right now and so many mechanics were different in 2nd I'm not even sure if grenades had any effect on combat. But if you interpret the rule to mean that assault grenades work on a per-model basis instead of a per-combat basis, that's how you should have been playing it for at least the past decade.

[YorkNecromancer]

I hate to break it to you, but the rule is worded pretty much the same way in 6th...

http://media.giphy.com/media/10JpQMyviPQESY/giphy.gif

IMMA GO PAINT SOME MODELS AND WAIT UNTIL DARK ELDAR ARE GOOD AGAIN THEN!!!

...

...

http://ioneglobalgrind.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/uncontrollable-cryring.gif?w=664&h=475

damn you gw...

[Krayd]

IMMA GO PAINT SOME MODELS AND WAIT UNTIL DARK ELDAR ARE GOOD AGAIN THEN!!!



More likely, you'll just have to wait until everyone else gets nerfed down to our level.

Though, unfortunately, I don't see that happening with Space Marines.

[YorkNecromancer]

To be honest, I don't actually think the new DE codex is that bad. It's just that the melee specialist are absolute turd... or at the very least, altogether too vulnerable to be worth the points. Wyches can't have haywire grenades? okay fine, give them a 4++ dodge save that applies at all times and we're fine. Then give both Wyches and Incubi to have assault grenades, and Trueborn to have access to Splinter Carbines, and I'd have everything I wanted from this codex.

I'm a little bit gutted about the reworking of Lelith's rules, but honestly, she's still the anti-tarpit beast she was before, and I never used or liked any of the other characters.

But yeah, the melee units are just too underpowered, and it was a real shame, because in the old codex, Incubi just felt terrifying, and there are so few actual melee units in 40K that have that feel. Abaddon, THSS Terminators, Karandras.... and that's about it.

Their models are just so pretty... They should be way more survivable than they are.

[Charon]

Its not that it is bad, its not even about the powerlevel. Its the inconsistency to other 7th codices and the "we dont care for this army" attitude that gets me angry.

Space Wolfes may take as may relics as they want on a character (only one weapon, but all the armor and trinkets) while Dark Eldar my take ONE relic.
Every Codex got a LoW, Dark Eldar got none.
Anti Air without the need to get Fliers? Her you go with your Flakk Missiles. Sorry Dark Eldar... we are just stripping rules here, not adding.
New units for release? You must be kidding, right? Tell Vect Santa Logan sends his regards.. we are busy making new Space Marine Stuff.

Wanna bet that Blood Angels will see new units, a LoW, Ground based Anti Air and new models for their special Characters while beeing able to snatch more than one Relic per Character from their armory?

[Da Gargoyle]

Pop an Autarch with Storm Guardians on a Raider. The SG can carry flamers/fusion guns, plasma grenades, blade stormin' pistols and two power swords. The Autarch with a scorpion sword, banshee mask and fusion gun. Roll in with them first and follow up the assault with some Wyches because it will annoy the other dude. As I posted elsewhere, my SG actually meld Wych legs and arms to guardian torsos and heads to produce SG.

I like the idea of the Raider assault, risky I know but suppose the troops on them were Scorpions. Flamers are not going to look so flash against a 3+ save and the Scorpions will get off and smack them about a bit, or move on to the assault target, while the flamer dudes get shot by supporting units. Don't leave 7th Ed mad, just get even.

[Da Gargoyle]

Guys, I interpreted one of the earlier posts to mean that use of flamers would wound the passengers in an open topped vehicle, ah la the raider. However I am not seeing this in the vehicle rules where it is only stating that shots at vehicles are resolved against vehicles and passengers only deal with the damage results if they have to.

Did I misinterpret or am I just missing something?

[Houghten]

It's in the Template Weapon rules, not the Vehicle rules.