2000pts Tyranids...No Zoanthropes!!

[Ghoulio]

As the title explains, I want to try a list with no Zoanthropes. It supremely bothers me that when you make a new Tyranid list you really only get one free Elite slot. So here it is!

HQ
Hive Tyrant - Heavy Venom Cannon, Bone Sword, Lash Whip, Old Adversary
220
Parasite of AWESOME!
160

Elites
Venomthropes (2)
110
Pyrovores (3) - Mycetic Spore Pod w/ Cluster Spines
185
Hive Guard (3)
150

Troops
Hormagaunts (20) - Toxin Sacs
160
Termagants (20)
100
Tervigon - Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Cluster Spines
195

Fast Attack
Gargoyles (20) - Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
160
Harpy - Twin Linked Heavy Venom Cannon, Cluster Spines
170

Heavy Support
Carnifex Brood (2) - Twin Linked Brainleech Devourers, Stranglethorn Cannon
390

2000pts of pure awesomesauce right on the dot

After reading over my list I gotta say I think this would be a lot of fun to play. One thing I want to find out is "are Pyrovores really as bad as they look?". Certainly they are, but I would like to find out first hand...plus they look awesome lol. I am still trying to figure out just how much not having Zoans will hurt me. I am assuming it will be a lot. Another thing I wanted to do as try out all the units I think are no good in one army just to see if there is something that I am missing when reading over this book. Who knows, maybe they will all be awesome! Any and all comments are mucho appreciated!

[Tynskel]

Pyrovores- looks like they are going in unsupported. If you book it with the gargoyles they might do alright- but as is with the spore pod, they are going to have a hard time surviving after one full turn.

I think this is why people say they suck- they throw them away! I think you would be better off having them walk and spending the 50 points on the Mycetic Spore somewhere else (like Adrenal Glands for the Hormagaunts- nothing like 60 attacks that re-roll to hit 1s, re-roll to wound, and are Initiative 6).

Now, I have been always big on army cohesiveness- The Rest of the army looks good to me- they will support each other quite well.

[Ghoulio]

Yeah, did a bit of thinking and I am 100% sure there is no way to make Pyrovores worth it. They are only T4 with a 4+ save and they EXPLODE when hit by insta killing weapons. So if you drop them in they get one shot and probably die the following turn. If you walk them on with the rest of your force they explode, probably taking some of your little guys with them. Sigh, such a shame too because they are such amazing models. Ah well, here is take 2 (bit more serious this time)

HQ
Hive Tyrant - Heavy Venom Cannon, Bone Sword, Lash Whip, Old Adversary
220
Tyrant Guard (2)
120
Parasite of AWESOME!
160

Elites
Venomthropes (2)
110
Hive Guard (2)
100
Hive Guard (2)
100

Troops
Hormagaunts (20) - Toxin Sacs
160
Termagants (20)
100
Tervigon - Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Cluster Spines
195

Fast Attack
Gargoyles (20) - Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
160
Harpy - Twin Linked Heavy Venom Cannon, Adrenal Glands, Cluster Spines
180

Heavy Support
Carnifex Brood (2) - Twin Linked Brainleech Devourers, Stranglethorn Cannon
390

Comes in at 1995pts

[Tynskel]

you should still try them. You shouldn't care about them exploding. you have a tervigon- those guys that die to a pyrovore explosion is fine.

2 reasons to take Pyrovore in a balanced list:

1) Instant Death Weapons: If they fire those at that the Pyrovore- they are not firing them at your big beasties
2) Hv Flamers with power weapon and acid attack. They work best in conjunction with a unit with Lash Whips. They flame and charge- if they are wounded/killed in CC, the enemy dies in the process.

Pyrovores are simply a suicide unit: in fact the first suicide unit in 40k! Everything else was too expensive to be considered a suicide unit (like the space wolf blood claw character). They have a special place in certain armies. Tricky to use- but an army with good cohesion will benefit from them- either forcing the opponent to deal with them, or regret ignoring them.

[Ghoulio]

you should still try them. You shouldn't care about them exploding. you have a tervigon- those guys that die to a pyrovore explosion is fine.

2 reasons to take Pyrovore in a balanced list:

1) Instant Death Weapons: If they fire those at that the Pyrovore- they are not firing them at your big beasties
2) Hv Flamers with power weapon and acid attack. They work best in conjunction with a unit with Lash Whips. They flame and charge- if they are wounded/killed in CC, the enemy dies in the process.

Pyrovores are simply a suicide unit: in fact the first suicide unit in 40k! Everything else was too expensive to be considered a suicide unit (like the space wolf blood claw character). They have a special place in certain armies. Tricky to use- but an army with good cohesion will benefit from them- either forcing the opponent to deal with them, or regret ignoring them.

There is one thing that you are missing though, and that is a Pyrovore will do nothing if it isnt podding in other then maybe blow up before the enemy gets there or give something else cover saves. You can spin it any way you want, but with its stats, with its gun, literally EVERYTHING about this unit OTHER then the model is horrendous.

1) Instant Death Weapons: These things are so puny and easy to kill even just one round of heavy bolters and they are done. They only have 2 wounds a Toughness of 4 and a 4+ save, that is brutal. And the fact that they can blow up with very little effort and they will kill some of your own guys (regardless if the Tervigon is there or not) is still bad.
2) Heavy Flamers with Power Weapon and Acid Attack: IF the pyrovore had Acid Spray then I could easily see you making a case for this unit, because then it wouldnt be bad. A footslogging model with no durability and a heavy flamer? I just can't see the use. Also, in regards to the power weapons and acid blood these things only have 1 attack, at init 1 with a WS of 3 and a T of 4. If you have 3 in hand to hand against Marines, if you live to attack you will get 1-2 hits (3 attacks needing 4s to hit), and if its 2 hits you get one wound. So your 135pts of guys will kill 15pts of marines. Even if the marines totally wipe out your guys in hand to hand before they attack and have to suffer from acid blood you will kill 2 marines (6 wounds, 2 failed init tests at Init 4). The ONLY army these guys would be of any real use against are orks (low init, no armor save to protect them against the heavy flamer).
3) Suicide Unit: Part of the problem is they are actually REALLY expensive for what you get. 45pts each? For 2 of these guys you could get 3 Raveners or Warriors, both of which are WAY better/more useful (Pyrovores have 4xT4 wounds, warriors/raveners have 9). You really dont have to deal with them though. They are slow, they have an 8" range (14" range if you count moving) and they really aren't a threat at all. If they were 25pts with these stats then I would totally agree with you :) . Also, for just 5 points more you can get a Hive Guard, who literally has better stats (in every category other then armor) AND an amazing gun.

Now all that being said, I was thinking about how to make them useful:
1) Run them with a Tervigon and give them Onslaught. At least this way they get a bit more range. Only problem is you could use it on something better (see my Carnifex Unit)
2) Give them Catalyst to maximize their effectiveness with Acid Blood in combat (since they will take unsaved wounds, but then ignore it, causing more hits). Maybe this might work?
3) Podding them in. When you add it up they cost 185pts with a pod, and that is REALLY expensive for 3 heavy flamers. Also, the only armies they could do something against are foot slogging armies. You would also need to Deep Strike something more scary near them to take the pressure off of them. Maybe Raveners or a Trygon? I originally put them in my list because I love the models :)

I am not trying to be a dick and I know you are (like me) trying to figure out uses for certain things in the book that on paper don't really seem to make sense, and I think that is great. Almost everything in the book I could see a use for, except these guys. Robin Cruddace just seemed to forget about these guys in the final draft (although, you could make that case for a LOT of stuff in this book). When looking at my second list I am actually really happy with it, so I thank you for the comments, and I really look forward to trying this out.

[Tynskel]

I understand your complaints. You have a good list.

But, if you already have the Pyrovore model(s), they give them a spin (you paid for them!).

One on one- yeah they look like poop on paper.

But, Hv Flamers are extremely good. The Pyrovore is huge, making it a good screen for your monsterous creatures. They are low priority threat, due to their range- so if hv bolters are shooting at them, they are not killing your Str 5 18" 3 shot warriors.

Flamers (from my experience) typically hit 5-8 models with every shot. The Pyrovore is even better, because the model's base is so large, you have a wide variety of angels you can fire the template from. Firing 3 Hv Flamers will get 15-24 hits. lets pick the middle as a common distribution. ~20. 20*2/3 (wounding space marines)*1/3 (armor saves)=4.44 dead. Now charge- if you have timed your charge with a unit with lashwhips (like my Tyrant, for example) those guys will put out 6*1/2*1/2= another 1.5 wounds. If they get injured- 0.833 wounds per injury.

They are a tricky unit!