2500 Competitive CSM

[Aristocrap]

So I wanted to throw a list together for competitive play. After some review and thought, the pure NM lists I've built aren't quite up to tourney standards. This list here is pretty diverse, having PMs, NMs, and Zerkers, which all hopefully can contribute to make the list work. Any suggestions to make the list better?

HQ:
Daemon Prince - 160
Wings, MoS, Warptime

Daemon Prince - 160
Wings, MoS, Warptime

Elites:
3 Termies - 105
3 Combi-Weapons

3 Termies - 105
3 Combi-Weapons

Troops:
10 CSM - 220
Champ w/ PF, IoCG, 2 Meltaguns
Rhino - 35

10 CSM - 220
Champ w/ PF, IoCG, 2 Meltaguns
Rhino - 35

7 Plauge Marines - 231
Champ w/ PF, 2 Plasma Guns
Rhino - 35

7 Plauge Marines - 231
Champ w/ PF, 2 Plasma Guns
Rhino - 35

8 Noise Marines - 205
Champ w/ PW, Doom Siren
Rhino - 35

8 Berserkers - 208
Champ w/ PF
Rhino - 35

Heavy Support:
2 Oblits - 150

2 Oblits - 150

2 Oblits - 150

Total: 2505

[Abuzorg]

Why no LoS on the DPs ? You got Mark of Slaanesh already. If you're not running lash on those, MoN is a better deal, +1 toughness is helping them way more than +1 ini.

[Aristocrap]

Yeah, I had redone the list last night, so here's the updated version:

HQ:
Daemon Prince - 155
Wings, MoS, Lash

Daemon Prince - 155
Wings, Mos, Lash

Greater Daemon - 100

Troops:
10 CSM - 210
Champ w/ PW, IoS, 2 Flamers
Rhino - 35

7 Plauge Marines - 221
Champ w/ PF, 2 Meltaguns
Rhino - 35

7 Plauge Marines - 221
Champ w/ PF, 2 Meltaguns
Rhino - 35

6 Noise Marines - 160
Blastmaster
Rhino - 50
Havoc Launcher

8 Berserkers - 223
Champ w/ PF, Plasma Pistol (not on champ)
Rhino - 35

8 Berserkers - 223
Champ w/ PF, Plasma Pistol (not on champ)
Rhino - 35

Heavy Support:
3 Oblits - 225

3 Oblits - 225

Defiler w/ 2 CCWs - 150

Total: 2493

So here's how the list works. My DPs hide behind the wall of 6 Rhinos and Lash my opponent's units around. The Rhinos will advance with the Zerkers and MoS CSM in front, which smash into infantry units. The Greater Daemon can be summoned through the CSM or a Zerker champ (preferably the CSM one) and tear up units in CC. My PMs will go tank hunting and support the other units by shooting to weaken them. The Blastmaster NM squad hangs back in their Rhino and camps objectives, lauching pie plates at lashed units. Oblits can hang back and pop armor and drop plasma templates, or DS if needed. The Defiler adds to the template onslaught until enemies get too close or until the battle cannon is destroyed; then it'll charge and support my other CC units.

[Sir Biscuit]

Are tournaments really 2500 points where you live? Generally, they seem to be 1500-2000 for speed of play.

Also, you're paying a lot for that noise marine squad to sit back and do very little. If your plan is really to have them sit back and grab an objective, drop the noise marines, take regular chaos marines, and drop the rhino. You can have a ten-man squad on foot with a lascannon for the same cost.

You'll actually want to put your 'zerkers rhinos behind the front ones, as ranged units suffer less for losing a transport.

Do you actually think any good players are going to come AT you with this list? Most all comers armies have numerous weapons to pick off light transports, your only real option is to attack them, and while this list is okay at that, it doesn't' seem to have elements that really work in cohesion. What's popping rhinos to let the 'zerkers get to the meat? If it's obliterators, than what's killing heavy ranged tanks, and artillery? Yes, you have a lot of strong units, but there's little cohesion, and that's where you'll suffer.

[Tynskel]

For Chaos!

This is an 'Ard Boyz list that I have been working on for Chaos. Sir Biscuit brings up a very valid point of Army Cohesion. At the 'Ard Boyz point value, the game becomes less and less about having the 'Uber' unit, and more how your army acts as a fluid Serpent. Poised, ready to strike anywhere, and withdraw to a position the enemy will not be able to strike back.

I am not a large fan of Obliterators. Yes, they are AWESOME, but I am just not a fan. I prefer 3 giant pie-plates to obliterators. The Terminators are the primary anti-tank force. With Icons all over the place, I am not to concerned about their ability to arrive where I want them to. The Secondary anti-tank are the Raptors (more anti-transport), and the Greater Daemon is the tertiary anti-tank, most likely popping out of a Raptor Champion. The idea is to have the Raptors pop a transport, and the Greater Daemon to charge the unit that was inside.

Vindicators and the Defiler would do its thing. :) The Defiler can run up, or just simply shoot n' scoot.

I love the Fabius Bile Upgrade: You take a 2 attack marine (2 close combat weapons) and always add +1 Str and make them fearless. 1 out of 6 games, you take some wounds from killing each other, and 1 out of 6 games you get Str 6 monsters! Combined with the Slannesh upgrade, they are all Initiative 5. For 1 point cheaper, you have Beserkers with one less WS and A in exchange for always +1 Str and +1 Initiative and they have bolters and flamers! They are essentially just as effective, perhaps more so because of the weapons load out. Throw in some Noise marines and Lesser Daemons, and you have a solid claiming and troop killing base.


Hv SUPPORT 440
Vindicator
Tank, Daemonic Possession
Vindicator
Tank, Daemonic Possession
Defiler
Hull, 2 Extra Close Combat Arms

HQ 485
Fabius Bile
Typhus
Greater Daemon

ELITES 290
Terminators
6 Terminators, 4 Powerfists, 6 Combi-Meltas, Icon of Nurgle

TROOPS 1005
Noisy Marines
9 Marines, Champion, Powerfist, Doom Siren, Icon, 8 Sonic Blasters
Dedicated Rhino
Chaos Marines
10 Marines, Fabius Bile Upgrade, Champion, Powerfist, Icon of Slaannesh, 2 Flamer
Dedicated Rhino
Chaos Marines
10 Marines, Fabius Bile Upgrade, Champion, Power Weapon, Icon of Slaannesh, 2 Flamers
Dedicated Rhino
Lesser Daemons
10 Lesser Daemons

FAST ATTACK 280
Raptors
5 Raptors, 2 Meltaguns, Champion, Meltabombs
Raptors
5 Raptors, 2 Meltaguns, Champion, Meltabombs

[Aristocrap]

Yeah, I'll be dropping the Noise Marines on account of similar opinions on other forums. Instead, I could fit a 5-man unit of Chosen with a champ so I can get the greater daemon in play easilly. That also gives me points for 2 units of 5 lesser daemons to hold objectives toward my backline.

HQ:
Sorcerer - 125
MoS, Lash

Sorcerer - 125
Mos, Lash
(Each will probably be in a different PM squad)

Greater Daemon - 100

Elites:
5 Chosen - 120
Champ, 4 Flamers
Rhino - 35
(Greater Daemon taxi)

Troops:
10 CSM - 210
Champ w/ PW, IoS, 2 Flamers
Rhino - 35

7 Plauge Marines - 221
Champ w/ PF, 2 Meltaguns
Rhino - 35

7 Plauge Marines - 221
Champ w/ PF, 2 Meltaguns
Rhino - 35

8 Berserkers - 208
Champ w/ PF
Rhino - 35

8 Berserkers - 208
Champ w/ PF
Rhino - 35

5 Lesser Daemons - 65

5 Lesser Daemons - 65
(Backfield objective holders)

Heavy Support:
3 Oblits - 225

3 Oblits - 225

Vindicator - 145
Daemonic Possession

Total: 2473 (27 left)

So I applied the changes I listed above as well as turned the Defiler into a Vindi. Since the list requires rapid movement towards my opponent, the range won't be an issue and it can draw fire away from my Rhinos. I changed the DPs to sorcs so I can throw them in my PM units for added survivability. I figure DPs would fall prey to heavy weapons easily at 2500.

[AdamHarry]

The Berzerker Rhinos need extra armor. nothing sucks more than getting those things stuck on your board edge because they cant move. i realize you're going for cheap, cheap transports, but that 15 pts is soooooo worth it for Berzerkers.

[AirHorse]

Im not very clued up about chaos, daemons or marines, but isnt that seven troops choices? I thought six was the limit, or is there something I dont know? :P

[Aristocrap]

Lesser Daemons count as Troops but don't take up spots on the Force Organization chart.