8th Starter Set is Skaven and HE!

[Bloodthirster]

Yep! that's right folks straight off Warseer. It is it me or is this a rather strange cobination for a starter set, maybe Skaven are selling well. :rolleyes:


On the sprue are 3 weapons teams. they are mulitpart and awsome.


High Elf Spearmen (mould tooled). No additional info on this. Skaven Warpthrower team (3-up being scanned). Team is robed with WWI-style gas-masks. How convient:p



If you play skaven or high elves, make room in your case for more. Also room for a book. and some nifty marker pieces.

Looks like we have our rumours folks, fire away!

Oh and for anyone wondering what mould tooled means; it basically means that the sculptors, CAD guys or whatever, take the green of the mini and put it into the CAD software.

[BilboBaggins]

A starter set without Dwarfs or Humans? Unheard of.

[Herald of Nurgle]

Guess who has both of their army books.
Fonson.

[TheBitzBarn]

Believe that when I see it as the Skaven are not what I call a Cornerstone race like Orc, Chaos

[Walls]

Just because some random poster said they saw something doesn't make it real. I will believe it when I see it. If it's indeed High Elves/Skaven, I truly think the set will bomb miserably.

Orks/Marines worked amazing because of the popularity of the two. Neither of those armies are immensely popular at all.

[wittdooley]

Yeah, this doesn't make any sense at all. None. A Skaven/ HE pairing is about as likely as GW doing different codecies for all the Tau Septs.

[Mazelf]

Yeah, this doesn't make any sense at all. None. A Skaven/ HE pairing is about as likely as GW doing different codecies for all the Tau Septs.

I agree. Most likely itll be something involving the empire...

[slxiii]

People have been saying empire/orcs for like a year now....don't think it's going to be skaven/HE unless they plan on redoing HE alongside the new edition.

[Aldramelech]

Goodbye

[BilboBaggins]

I could see Bretonnians for the good.

HE vs Rats is only slightly more likely than the next 40k starter set have Squats instead of Space Marines in it.

[wittdooley]

Realistically, it will have one of the human factions (Empire/Bretonnia) v something. I'd say it wouldn't be unreasonable to see Skaven in a set there, but I can't see them doing new models this soon after a line they just re-released.

[Bigred]

I would be shocked if those two were the starter races.

Also note that the earlier set of rumors saying Empire vs. Orks came from one of the community's longstanding relaible sources.

[auspexRex]

The last WFB big box I bought was HE and Orcs. Yeah, it was a long time ago. I don't play WFB that much, but I do buy the models for use in other systems. Aesthetically, I love Skaven and think the HE could definitely use some remodeled core units. I'm much more excited about Skaven and HE than Empire and Orcs. Perhaps only because I'd love to see more model love for the Skaven and HE than Empire (which have received plenty fairly recently) or Orcs.

Greenskins got a nice round of updates when the last boxed set came out. I know it's been a while, but certainly there are still a lot of ugly metals and plastics in other armies that could use an overhaul. What do Greenskins lack currently, good boar riders and savage orcs? I don't even know what Empire could get as an improvement outside of some new unit.

Again, speaking strictly from a point of view of a player who doesn't actually play with official GW rules very much.

I have to wonder if there's any evidence that people who don't currently play WFB would be more enticed to buy a box set with Skaven and HE. I think I would have if I were coming into the hobby anew. Surely GW is pushing to try to recruit fresh players in light of their falling sales (and rising profits).

It took me a long time to really like the Empire aesthetic, which is finely integrated within the unique old world feel of the WH world. I had to get into the whole world of Warhammer before Empire, Brets, and Chaos seemed really interesting. Maybe they're experimenting and attempting to attract new folks who might find the Skaven or HE look to be a bit more exciting?

[Bloodthirster]

Rex the way I see it is that, Orcs and Goblins and Empire do sell well. If you ask me this is a test from GW to see if putting less popular races in a Starter box will encourage people to start new races, and increase the sales of those armies in general. Oh and Harry, a reliable rumour poster from Warseer, seems to think there is a high chance of this happening, he has heard a couple of possible combo's from his source's about the new Starter and these propped up a lot. Apparently it was changed last minute.

[wittdooley]

Man.. it just seems so unlikely. I can absolutely see the HE getting some starter love, as they have FAR too many metal models, but Skaven?!?! Really?! They just released all the new stuff. I can't see it happening.

[elrodogg]

The skaven weapon thing in 3up modeling is probably just a new release for the skaven weapons teams in their second wave release due in a couple of months.

Empire v. Greenskins is a classic matchup, however HE's v. Greenskins would work as well. Still, my money is on Empire as it's a more popular army than HEs.

[gcsmith]

I would love to see HE with my newly started HE army, which im taking to tourn i notingham tomoz actually. Anyway Fantasy is done diff to 40k, at least while i have played it, 40k is always marines v something, Fantasy has always changed with the kinda change ork to gobbo,

[bodhimind]

HE I could see, but in general, Skaven have too many special rules for the starter set. They have a tendancy to use armies with minimal to no special rules.

[Attilla13]

Well, it could be cool if that is the way that GW goes. I know that I have often wanted them to do multiple box sets for the starter....ie one box empire vs orcs, another dwarves vs gobbos, andother he vs de, etc. Now I know that that is not feasible from a monetary viewpoint, unless the games (or at least the mini sets) would be available for much longer than 4-5 years....and I do know why they release a new version that often....after all, 40k or WFB big boxed games become stale to most of us after only 3-4 years as it is (not that we don't love them).

But while the company has almost always used one of the "main" armies, they have mentioned (at least preliminarily a while ago) about using one of the less "sales king" model ranges. As long as they can stay away from lots of "special rules". And yes, Skaven have tons of them (especially special units) but they could keep them to the more "basic" stuff, garner a whole bunch of new skaven players, and then they know that the sales of some of the special pieces would stay strong for some time (rather than a big explosion when they come out and then a slow dwindling to virtually nothing.) So while they miss out on the "main armies" those would probably sell pretty well over the life of the game, while the "lesser army" may stand to get much more "gain" form longer sales trends if it is in the box set.

[wittdooley]

But while the company has almost always used one of the "main" armies, they have mentioned (at least preliminarily a while ago) about using one of the less "sales king" model ranges. As long as they can stay away from lots of "special rules". And yes, Skaven have tons of them (especially special units) but they could keep them to the more "basic" stuff, garner a whole bunch of new skaven players, and then they know that the sales of some of the special pieces would stay strong for some time (rather than a big explosion when they come out and then a slow dwindling to virtually nothing.) So while they miss out on the "main armies" those would probably sell pretty well over the life of the game, while the "lesser army" may stand to get much more "gain" form longer sales trends if it is in the box set.

Totally agree with that, only I just have so much trouble seeing them put an army they JUST re released in a boxed set. Plus, Skaven has so few metal models left, it just doesn't seem necessary.

That's part of the reason I can believe HE in the boxed set; they have a TON of metal models left. However, they're all Specials or Rare.... With that in mind, all the DE Specials are metal, too. I could potentially see them doing a HEvDE, but I don't think they'd throw a bunch of elites in a boxed set. However, if the plastic Gryphon is a reality...maybe a plastic Hydra to combat it.....

Regardless, I want to see the following plastic kits:


High Elf
ALL THE ELITES!

Dwarf
Love to see both IRONBREAKERS and SLAYERS as plastic; quite frankly, I'd think that Slayers just scream plastic, as you could outfit them as all the different types of slayer.

Bretonnia

Sweet christmas, How hard would it really be to do plastic Questing Knights and Plastic Battle Pilgrims?


Ogres

Maybe a hybrid plastic Manhunter/Tyrant kit?

O & Gs

Boar boys I suppose, but Why the hell not a plastic squig box? You know they'd sell the **** out of it, as it could be used for 40k too.

Vamp Counts

I don't think they NEED any, but come on...no one wants to pay $90 for metal Blood Knights.

Wood Elfs

They could use some love, for sure. No reason we couldn't see plastic Wild Riders or Wardancers. I'd also really love to see a treekin / treeman combo pack. Something like enough bitz to do 3 tree kin or 2 tree kin and 1 tree man.

Tomb Kings

Some plastic Tomb Guard would be nice, as would another 2/3 pack for Ushtabi, with plenty of cool bitz.

Sorry for the rant, but I really hope that GW moves towards as much plastic as we can get. I dig the 3 packs like the Killa Kan pack, and lets be honest.... they are going to sell a TON of those Kan packs.

[eldargal]

I stopped playing my HE when they dropped Alarielle and her Girly Guard from the model range, it would be nice if they brought them back.

[AirHorse]

I dont know what the rumours are like concerning up and coming army books, but I would find it odd if they put a couple of armies in there that have old books and arent planned for the reasonabley near future

High elves I can definately see in starter set, skaven im not so sure about. But then if I look at the "evil" armies that have recent books i can kind of see where its coming from, high elves on dark elves would be a cool set for me though :P.

[Col_Festus]

I don't think Skaven vs. High Elves would be that strange at all. In fact the clan rats look like they belong in a starter box, they are almost all one piece. Also if we look back at past starter sets we can see that skaven have never been done... maybe its time? There have been some pretty wonky box sets. I mean we had Bretonnia vs Lizardmen... two factions that never interact.. lol. Skaven and High Elves isn't that far fetched.

[Lord Azaghul]

I can see HE, but skaven? That's just not a hot seller. I think gw was pretty foolish to stick goblins (not orcs) in the current starter set.

If the starter set has greenskins (orcs), dwarves, empire or HE, I'll probably pick it up. anything else...probably not, skaven makes no sense what so ever.

[steeldragon]

My guess if this is true we will see plastic skavenslaves...

I guess we need to wait and see...

[Lord Azaghul]

My guess if this is true we will see plastic skavenslaves...

I guess we need to wait and see...

I kind of doubt that. I think Clan Rats are the most likely.
Think about the current box, those gobbos are pretty similar to what you can get in the 'goblin' box.

I'm also hearing rumours of a HE griffon in the new starter box.

[gcsmith]

if the griffon is true, HE's might either be redone to allow them on heroes or it will be a 2k box :)

[Lord Azaghul]

if the griffon is true, HE's might either be redone to allow them on heroes or it will be a 2k box :)

actually no. One of the biggest rumours is that the game is going back to %.
IE you wouldn't be restricted to a hero under 2k, but rather by the total cost your hero/lords.
One of the most persistant rumours suggestions is that characters will be limited to 25% max of your points allotment, core 25min-50max% with special and rares capped lower then the cores, but no miniumum.
So in fact the HE could take a lord choice in lower games as long as he takes up no more the 25% of the total cost of the army!

But time will tell.

[gcsmith]

tbh i hope not, MAX CORE???? that will screw over some armies, also how will HE benefit for less amounts

[Lord Azaghul]

The rumour percentages vary.
I can't really see a max limit on core, for pretty much for the reasons you stated - however - that might be why HE may be getting redone sooner then later, since there book really limits their core options. (which I wouldn't be happy about since my army got skipped in 7th)
Also something to consider: with combat changed to something like: you always get strikebacks as long as you have models left in the unit, will really make ASF almost worthless.

[gcsmith]

maybe most of these, rumours are wrong, i cant see the percentages, really why add FoC in Beastmen book, also it will undo, It will cause so many problems overall. most lists will work different. as long as HE can get more rare and happy im not too fussed. and if its balanced well i guess it can work. But if they introduce it, they better take into account tournies and playtest it to the extreme. I wouldnt risk it tho, cus most poeple might leave the game.

[Lord Azaghul]

It actually has me interested in pulling my fantasty armies out of closet and playing again.
The most 'confirmed' rumor is actually the percentages! (aside from rumours of a massive change in the magic system).

I've tried building a few sample list with both my greenskins and my dwarves and its pretty interesting.
Heroes to take quite a hit. My normal greenskin army runs max heroes at 2250, with a % system I end up taking way more core, and only 2 characters. My dwarves don't really change much at all, except perhaps to take less in the special section.
A couple of friends and myself are planning on trying out a few games with the rumoured % restrictions.

[gcsmith]

wat are the rumored %

[Lord Azaghul]

I think its actually all speculation.
The one that I'm seeing the most of is: characters cap out at 25% core is 25% min, special may capp out at 40% and rare at 25%, but like I said... I'm pretty sure the numbers are all speculation.

[gcsmith]

well if heros is 25% no way will i be able my 2 combat heros and magic defense. also at 25% how on earth will anyone get their lords?

[Lord Azaghul]

at 2250 In my greenskins I still get in a lord on a wyvern, and a savage orc on a chariot.

One of the bigger rules reguarding the magic phase seems to be aimed at removing the need for the manditory scroll caddy.
At the start fo the phase the player rolls 2d6. That is his/her magic dice, then modifiers kick in. The other player for disple dice gets the highest of the 2d6. So if the 2d6 scores a 4 and 6, the defending player gets 6 dispel dice - then whatever modifies they bought for there army.

At 2250 that 562 points to spend on heros/lords! at 2k that 500 points. I think that that is plenty. These means people have to go lighter on their heroes so things like the3 eng of the Gods/ Slann Lizard army just don't exist - and quite franlking I'm ok with that. That means the armies with 1 greater daemon and 3 heralds is also gone!

[gcsmith]

well All i can say is in UK HE dragon sales will go down if its 25% as you cant get a decent dragon lord.
Infact you get 30 points of equipment, as most tournies and funs are 2k. Means i cant even take magic items cus the mandatory lance, takes you out, My cheaperst dragon lord so far has been 604 points.

I think if they do % it will be like

Heros/lords 10% miin to 50% max, With lords only usable above 1999 points non inclusive
Core, 25% min, 10% min for HE
Special 40% max, 50 for HE
Rare 40% max 50% for HE

While This is ok, it does screw other general game. Some armies like Brets must have a hero more than normal so 25% is deffo to low. Especially when they want dragons to sell.

Hopefully tho it wont change, I mean the current rules just need some magic tweeks really, Tho magic should be powerful. its all thats keeping HEs winning :P

[Lord Azaghul]

Dragon sales may fall, but wouldn't that mean they would sell more spearmen?

If its true though it would really hurt you'r build specificall, but it would force others/everyone to play differently and build list differently. And I think that's kind of the point. The game has stagnated. I'm tired to loosing to daemon players who can't win with any other army. I hope some of the rumoured limitation are true.

Also, if the starter set does contain HE/Skaven, perhaps that means that HE are getting a book sooner then most.

[gcsmith]

Spearmen sales wont go up, at all. The only real competative use of core slot is archers, or maybe seaguard. Spearmen need too big units to be affective and therefore 2 many points.

[S0ULDU5T]

I don't see there being any percentages as it would have a serious impact on the game. For instance, VC needs it's heroes almost at max to operate and putting a percentage on that would hinder that. I just think it's a silly idea or the dreams of rouge trader tournament player and no one should really put much faith in it actually occuring.

[Lord Azaghul]

I don't see there being any percentages as it would have a serious impact on the game. For instance, VC needs it's heroes almost at max to operate and putting a percentage on that would hinder that.

And thats just the reason I am hoping the see percentages!

However it does seem odd that gw would do that given there simplification of core rules of late.

[Gooball]

Rumors i have heard;
Orcs and goblins Vs Empire
Tomb kings Vs Empire
Empire Vs Rats
He Vs Rats
TK Vs Orcs and goblins
So i think one of the above at least will make it into the starter, I think TK/O+G vs empire is most likely because they're both going to be getting new codexes by 2012 methinks :P and empire is one of the most popular armies
Tk Vs O+G is least likely but one im hoping for most as they're the two armies i have ^_^

[Brithian Ranger]

yeah, not really buying this. My money is definitely on Humans

[eldargal]

The reliable rumour mongers are all saying HE vs Skaven. I had trouble believing it too, but its nearly universally accepted now. That isn't to say it is right, of course.


yeah, not really buying this. My money is definitely on Humans

[addamsfamily36]

High elves are believable,

4th edition was elves vs goblins (or so memory serves me i might be wrong)
5th - brettonians vs lizardmen
6th - empire vs orcs
7th - dwarves vs goblins


However skaven? jsut had a book, very complex army with a lot of options in the list. lets just say its not an army i would advise a beginner to learn how to play.

personally seeing elves vs goblins would be good. i the contents of the box are rumoured to include a plastic griffon well youv'e got eltharion the grim right there and why not throw in grom for the goblins. it would be a classic battle and one where you would have two characters that even have rules to fight each other but are rarely going to face off any other time.

just a thought lol

[Vampire lord]

god a skaven in a starter box there are so meny things wrong with that like that skaven are too complex. but that may be the point. To make so its not to slow to lerning the game on a larger scale.

[Straha]

Rumors i have heard;
Orcs and goblins Vs Empire
Tomb kings Vs Empire
Empire Vs Rats
He Vs Rats
TK Vs Orcs and goblins
So i think one of the above at least will make it into the starter, I think TK/O+G vs empire is most likely because they're both going to be getting new codexes by 2012 methinks :P and empire is one of the most popular armies
Tk Vs O+G is least likely but one im hoping for most as they're the two armies i have ^_^

My opinion is anything vs Empire is a good choice. I've been thinking of playing Warhammer Fantasy and even have a Tomb Kings Battalion in my gaming stash, so I'd like to see a Tomb Kings pairing with Empire. I'd even buy an Empire Battalion with the new starter set.

Of all the choices up there, High Elves vs Skaven is the least appealing. High Elves are OK, but Skaven are really low on my wish list. Despite the new release and White Dwarf splash, Skaven just don't have a WOW factor.

[CitizenZero]

Tomb Kings aren't "fantasy" enough. They don't belong in a Core set, and I say this as an avid Tomb Kings player...

Although I feel Empire is always a good choice, I think going back to High Elves as the "good" army would be solid...it doesn't get much more evocative of high fantasy than High Elves.

I think that Skaven are a beloved race in Warhammer Fantasy, especially from a GW perspective. Games Workshop is proud of Skaven because unlike much of the other armies in WFB, Skaven are unique to the Warhammer World. They aren't taken from mythology and there is nothing Tolkien-esque about them.

Therefore, I think High Elves vs. Skaven would make for an interesting and fresh new core set...not to mention the most probable. If it happens, you might even see me starting High Elves :)

[Straha]

Therefore, I think High Elves vs. Skaven would make for an interesting and fresh new core set...not to mention the most probable. If it happens, you might even see me starting High Elves :)

I'll probably jump into the High Elves end of the pool, too. I just checked out the High Elves Army boxed deal on the GW site, and it is sweet. $175 gets you 32 Spearmen, 24 Archers, 2 Bolt Throwers, a Chariot with to build options, and 8 silver Helms. There are also options for 2 Mages (foot & mounted) and 2 Lords (foot & mounted).

All that, combined with whatever the starter set includes, should make for a nice pointy eared Army. I'm still whatever about Skaven, but I'll build the starter models to learn the game. Who knows, it may end up being the coolest Army ever. And when the Tomb Kings are updated................

In any case, I'm excited to break out of my 40K shell and start Warhammer fantasy.

[CitizenZero]

I'll probably jump into the High Elves end of the pool, too. I just checked out the High Elves Army boxed deal on the GW site, and it is sweet. $175 gets you 32 Spearmen, 24 Archers, 2 Bolt Throwers, a Chariot with to build options, and 8 silver Helms. There are also options for 2 Mages (foot & mounted) and 2 Lords (foot & mounted).

All that, combined with whatever the starter set includes, should make for a nice pointy eared Army. I'm still whatever about Skaven, but I'll build the starter models to learn the game. Who knows, it may end up being the coolest Army ever. And when the Tomb Kings are updated................

In any case, I'm excited to break out of my 40K shell and start Warhammer fantasy.WELCOME! I love Fantasy, it's my favorite GW game :)

I am with you on the Tomb Kings...I have another 2000 points just sitting there in varying levels of completeness, but can't bring myself to work on them until I find out what new goodies are coming out...I would hate to paint 40 more Tomb Guard to learn they are getting new ones in plastic :/

So I started an Orc Army in the meantime, but a shiny new core set may sway me to another army once again haha...

[Captainmiserable]

The High Elves V. Skaven thing always sounded like a weird combo, but a plastic griffon would totally make it worth while. It might be hard for new guys to learn though if they have ASF, unless they change that for 8th which totally makes me wonder...

[CitizenZero]

The High Elves V. Skaven thing always sounded like a weird combo, but a plastic griffon would totally make it worth while. It might be hard for new guys to learn though if they have ASF, unless they change that for 8th which totally makes me wonder...I don't think that ASF is changing, and I don't think it will really come into play in the core set. Historically, army special rules included in codexes/army books aren't mentioned or used in the beginner scenarios.

Plastic Griffon would be awesome though for sure! :)

[Scryer in the Darkness]

Yes the crazy GW web team is at it again, article up briefly and then taken down:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=&section=&pIndex=0&aId=9800041a&start=1


Incoming: The Island of Blood

Enter, if you dare, the Warhammer world; it is a strange and dangerous realm, riven with battle, bloodshed and slaughter, twisted beyond sanity by the warping power of Chaos.

The Island of Blood is the new boxed game for Warhammer and is released this September. Packed full of stunning plastic Citadel miniatures and containing all the rules, dice and templates you'll need to play, it's the essential purchase for fans of the Warhammer hobby. Meanwhile, if you like the Battle for Skull Pass boxed game (and who wouldn't with all those Goblins and Dwarfs Dwarfs) then it only seems fair to point out that once the last few remaining copies are they're gone, and they're never coming back! Pick one up while they last.

In August we'll be featuring more information about The Island of Blood here on the website and the full details will be released in September's White Dwarf, so keep your eyes peeled.

[Bigred]

Thanks so much Scryer! Its good to see you here.

-Bigred

[zenocide]

just going back to the percentages arguement for a second.

right now the way that i have heard it is like this

lords: MAX 25%
Heros: MAX 25%
Core: MIN of 25%
Special: MAX of 50%
rare: MAX 25%

my source also said that GW is going to moving its tourneys and regular games in their 'bunkers' to be 2500-3000. this will allow people to have some where between 625-750 points per leader section.

this one is mainly directed to the people who are saying "but im not gonna play mah herohammer any more"... well... sucks to be you. this system is going to not only be better to play, but also will give GW the chance to make more money. for example, for those lizardmen players out there, no longer will you be able to field your 3 EotG's and a slann with only three 84 point squads of skink skirmishers. this will also stop you people out there who drop 1000 points into one hero. but, this also opens up more options for lords, as as i now understand it, there are not going to be limits on the number of lords you can have, just the point percentage cap.

also, for the person who made the 'GW will lose money on dragon sales' comment, i am more then sure that people will have to buy more core troops, thus probably makeing them more money over all, but maybe not on a sale-by-sale basis. for example, they will get 5 sales of $45 of core troops instead of 2 $65 sales from dragons.

-Zenocide

[trigger87]

I don't know how reliable this is but i was in my local Gamesworkshop today and told my local manager i was intrested in starting a skaven army. he told me that was a good idea but that he couldnt tellme why it was a good idea suggesting to me that skaven at least will be in the new box set. as i said i dont know how reliable that is but seems to me skaven will be in the new box set. this is my first ever post on a forum and i apologise if i am stating the obvious or am just plain being stupid.

[trigger87]

As regards the percentage system I quite like it. It allows everybody to take the same points worth of heroes regardless of what army you play. Some armies may spend all there points on one lord choice armies with cheaper lord level characters may be able to get three or four. Overall this should balance out. However I except I have a biased opinion, playing an all night goblin army, and understand some peoples opinions may differ. Espeially deamon plyaer who will no longer be able to take greater deamons in 2000 pts.

[MC Tic Tac]

Got the promo email a few mina ago but what was intresting besides the text was the picture..........
(text was the same as Scryer in the Darkness posted above a few posts ago)

Can wiser heads than mine pick out any new plastics as I don't know the HE or Skaven ranges that well

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/adept_astartes/m1230059a_Battle_600x400.jpg

[addamsfamily36]

Definetly nothign new for the High elves there, and im pretty sure that the skaven are all current models.

I would love the box set to contain highelves, as I'm a high elf player, but looking recently there has been a heavy amount of Chaos being published by gamesworkshop, either in news posts, articles promoting warhammer etc.

thats jsut an observation though.

im praying for high elves , i want new spearmen :)

[Aldramelech]

It looks like its firming up. It could be a red herring though.

[Toastix]

if this means some new plastics for my skaven models that have not been done yet, I will be very excited, if not oh well. I want a model for my Hell Pit Abom.

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

if this means some new plastics for my skaven models that have not been done yet, I will be very excited, if not oh well. I want a model for my Hell Pit Abom.

I was thinking of using green stuff with the two rat ogre parts we are SUPPOSED to get in the box to make my own. I REALLY don't like the picture with the blob on the cart, it reminds me too much of the mutant skateboard-GI-Joe mash-up toy from the first toy story...

[Ulf]

High Elves
Prince on Griffon
Mage on foot
20 Sea Guard
10 Swordmasters of Hoeth
5 Ellyrian Reavers

Does this even make a legal list according to the new 25% rules?

Even with minimal equipment, the prince and the Mage add up to ~500 points.
The Sea Guard with max equipment are at ~350 (with 2 magic banners).
The Swordmasters and the rangers add up to 350 (with magic stufffor the swordmasters).

I don't see any combination which would allow the elven player to use all of his units according to the new rules. At very best it's something like 2x10 Sea Guard + Swordmasters + Mage on Foot.

[Aldramelech]

Does this even make a legal list according to the new 25% rules?

Even with minimal equipment, the prince and the Mage add up to ~500 points.
The Sea Guard with max equipment are at ~350 (with 2 magic banners).
The Swordmasters and the rangers add up to 350 (with magic stufffor the swordmasters).

I don't see any combination which would allow the elven player to use all of his units according to the new rules. At very best it's something like 2x10 Sea Guard + Swordmasters + Mage on Foot.

Hes got a point......

[AirHorse]

Remember you can ahve 25% heroes and 25% lords so you can have up to 50% of your points invested in characters.

Also the starter sets(current ones anyway) actually dont use points values for any of the scenarios they come with, they just tell you which models you get to use and how to use them, and generally with simplified versions of the units actual rules. Its only at the end of the starter set that it actually encourages you to read through the actual rule book and think about getting the army books.

[Ulf]

Remember you can ahve 25% heroes and 25% lords so you can have up to 50% of your points invested in characters.

Whew, I didn't know that. I like that. :)

Still, the prince alone without any Equipment (350 pts) is only 10 points less than the Seaguard with ridiculous amounts of equipment (360 pts). Add in a maxed out Mage at 185 and nicely equipped Swordmasters and Elyrians at ~360, you still don't have a legal list. Well, maybe it is legal, but you waste around 250 points if you play at 1500 points.

[eldargal]

Starter sets don't necessarily have legal armies, its all about showing off the different variety of unit types. But yes, the list of what is in the box was compiled from rumours so it is in no way certain.

[Old_Paladin]

Wow, I'm a little shocked about how much I got right by just pulling ideas out of my butt (swordmasters, globadiers and mortar).


With the whole breaking down the army list by points; it's important to remember that, at least for the starter kit, points don't matter as much. The points in your army book are not going to be very accurate, as army wide special rules won't be being used.
The high elves won't have Speed of Assurian or citizen levy; and skaven aren't going to be using there scurry away, shoot into combat, and strength in numbers (just like dwarves didn't get their marching rules and goblins didn't get hatred, anamosity and Waaagh!).

[CitizenZero]

Does this even make a legal list according to the new 25% rules?

Even with minimal equipment, the prince and the Mage add up to ~500 points.
The Sea Guard with max equipment are at ~350 (with 2 magic banners).
The Swordmasters and the rangers add up to 350 (with magic stufffor the swordmasters).

I don't see any combination which would allow the elven player to use all of his units according to the new rules. At very best it's something like 2x10 Sea Guard + Swordmasters + Mage on Foot.


Starter sets don't necessarily have legal armies, its all about showing off the different variety of unit types. But yes, the list of what is in the box was compiled from rumours so it is in no way certain.The Assault on Black Reach Space Marines don't include 2 troop choices...

[Old_Paladin]

The Assault on Black Reach Space Marines don't include 2 troop choices...

2 5-man squads... (ignoring the codex rules for special and heavy weapons? and one squad doesn't have a sarge...)

[CitizenZero]

2 5-man squads... (ignoring the codex rules for special and heavy weapons? and one squad doesn't have a sarge...)Well yes, if you ignore the rules I suppose that it doesn't break the rules. :)

[eldargal]

Its brave, certainly. But I think its a good move. You have a starter box which will set it apart from the "Orcs vs Humans" thing most fantasy setting have, and it will interest veterans more because its not another 'humans (or dorf,to be fair) vs greenskins" boz. I'm so sick of greenskins being in the starter box.:rolleyes:
I'm not sure I agree with the whole 'newb army' thing anyway. I started with Eldar in 40k and Elves in WFB and it took me a while to get adept at playing with them sure, but I had fun and now I'm very good. I don't see how starting with Space Marines or Empire would have helped me at all.


Is it just me? 2 non-newb armies in the box seems crazy.

[AirHorse]

I agree, the whole noob army thing is silly anyway. Every army has its own subtleties that take time to learn and master, the only way you learn things like that is to play games with the army in question.

[Lord Azaghul]

Its brave, certainly. But I think its a good move. You have a starter box which will set it apart from the "Orcs vs Humans" thing most fantasy setting have, and it will interest veterans more because its not another 'humans (or dorf,to be fair) vs greenskins" boz. I'm so sick of greenskins being in the starter box.:rolleyes:
.


Yeah, but 'cause it doesn't include any of my armies I'm not buying it.
Once It was confirmed as not have empire, I sold off the last on my empire stuff, and since it doesn’t have either greenskins or dwarfs I can't even make an excuse to buy it. I think its an odd move. But they really want to push the new skaven models and you can bet the the HE are getting something new around the corner as well.

I would have been thrilled with new plastic orc cav in the starter set...but no such luck.

[CitizenZero]

Yeah, but 'cause it doesn't include any of my armies I'm not buying it.
Once It was confirmed as not have empire, I sold off the last on my empire stuff, and since it doesn’t have either greenskins or dwarfs I can't even make an excuse to buy it. I think its an odd move. But they really want to push the new skaven models and you can bet the the HE are getting something new around the corner as well.

I would have been thrilled with new plastic orc cav in the starter set...but no such luck.I know you are responding to counter why you believe that veterans won't necessarily buy this box, but your personal reasoning doesn't make much sense...

As written, it sounds like you think its odd that they aren't including any of the armies that you play...did you expect them to include ALL the armies? Were you really only keeping your empire in case they came out with Empire in a starter box?

Where I am from, nobody plays Orc & Goblins...there are far more Skaven players...

The best part is, if it was say Empire and Goblins...we would be on here right now reading about why GW is lame for not changing it up.

[Lord Azaghul]

I know you are responding to counter why you believe that veterans won't necessarily buy this box, but your personal reasoning doesn't make much sense...

As written, it sounds like you think its odd that they aren't including any of the armies that you play...did you expect them to include ALL the armies? Were you really only keeping your empire in case they came out with Empire in a starter box?

Where I am from, nobody plays Orc & Goblins...there are far more Skaven players...

The best part is, if it was say Empire and Goblins...we would be on here right now reading about why GW is lame for not changing it up.


Must just be a 'local' thing. Around here there are more empire and greenskin players the rats. I guess I just think of my armies as more 'core' to the game, or to fantasy in general. I don't think of little ratmen when I think of fantasy, but I do think of elves, dwarves, Orcs and Humans.

You're spot on on the last part though, "the internets" will complain no matter what choice gw made

[addamsfamily36]

Hey everyone


got back from my local GW earlier today and was left sightly shocked. Now i want high elves vs skaven as i already have a high elf army and skaven do look good, but i was still unsure just seemed too goo to be true from my point of view. but when talking over the new rulebook release with the manager (who i'd never met before) as iv'e recently moved, i said i would prefer to wait until the mini rulebook, and he said ah the box set, are you excited about high elves vs skaven


my face was like :EEK:

sorry what?

and he just said "yeh new box set thats whats in it" now i pestered but got nothing more so i'm still taking with a spoon full of salt not jsut a pinch lol

[Freefall945]

Apparently, High Elves are being poised to be the "Flagship" race of the new face of Warhammer. Part of the new strategy to breathe life into the ailing product, I suppose. There's a lot going on with the Empire for a newbie to take in - they're German, they're industrial revolution, they're flaggelating, they're burning the witch, they're being the witch... As fans we love all this stuff, but newcomers run the risk of being a little overwhelmed when they try to wrap their mind around "Main Good Guys in this IP" and their brain runs around on the brutal, jagged reef of nonstereotypicality.

High Elves, conversely, are the quintessential elf. The bits that make them unique to Games Workshop and not a suitable Tolkein cash-grab are subtle enough to be ignored until well after the new player is flipping through their Army Book, and gets to learn about Finubar. They're clean, they're good, they're shiny, they're noble, they're haughty, they're graceful, they're skilled... They are Elf. Elf is what they are. Embrace the Elf.

[Aldramelech]

Apparently, High Elves are being poised to be the "Flagship" race of the new face of Warhammer. Part of the new strategy to breathe life into the ailing product, I suppose. There's a lot going on with the Empire for a newbie to take in - they're German, they're industrial revolution, they're flaggelating, they're burning the witch, they're being the witch... As fans we love all this stuff, but newcomers run the risk of being a little overwhelmed when they try to wrap their mind around "Main Good Guys in this IP" and their brain runs around on the brutal, jagged reef of nonstereotypicality.

High Elves, conversely, are the quintessential elf. The bits that make them unique to Games Workshop and not a suitable Tolkein cash-grab are subtle enough to be ignored until well after the new player is flipping through their Army Book, and gets to learn about Finubar. They're clean, they're good, they're shiny, they're noble, they're haughty, they're graceful, they're skilled... They are Elf. Elf is what they are. Embrace the Elf.

NO!

Follow the Beard!

Great big small men with Beards are the only way forward.

Big/small - Check
Axes - Check
Chainmail underware - Check
Big guns - Check

What else do you need to know?

[eldargal]

Bearded midgets or perfectly toned man-boys, whats a girl to choose?:rolleyes:

[Aenir]

go with Tomb Kings, then you could have Both Bearded midgets AND toned man-boys! + a bunch of other things :D

(Or Brettonia! who doesnt love a massive calvary charge!)

[Old_Paladin]

Bearded midgets or perfectly toned man-boys, whats a girl to choose?:rolleyes:

Yeah, the choice is so clear; bearded midgets.
They're loyal, dependable, put family in high regard and they're rich (with lots of gold, silver and rare gems).

[Aldramelech]

Yeah, the choice is so clear; bearded midgets.
They're loyal, dependable, put family in high regard and they're rich (with lots of gold, silver and rare gems).

And they have a catchy theme tune!

Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold, Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold,Gold.

Not to be confused with that old Dwarf classic:

Gold!,Gold!,Gold!,Gold!,Gold!,Gold!,Gold!,Gold!,Go ld!,Gold!,Gold!,Gold!,Gold!,Gold!,Gold!,Gold!

[Chunk]

Not to mention, they have so much hair and wear so much armour, the main function of the dwarf "courting" process is figuring out what gender the other dwarf is...

[Melissia]

Neat. I'm more interested in Dwarves and Empire myself, but I think I could get into Skaven (and sell the HE on ebay).

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

Neat. I'm more interested in Dwarves and Empire myself, but I think I could get into Skaven (and sell the HE on ebay).

I love to gamble, and if you do too, Skaven are the only way to go. It adds such a ridiculous amount of humor and fun to the whole experience. Take the doomwheel for instance... I might move 3 inches, I might move 18, or I might fire of 3 str10 d6 wound shots... then explode.

Their Magic will suffer a bit without any form of errata though; but that's why Warlock Engineers are so cheap in pts. BAMF next to a unit; munch warpstone tokens; throw as many dice at a spell as you can, go for suicide.

Of course, a few wins will inevitably be attributed to "dumb luck", but what can you do? A W is a W.

[Melissia]

Lol, kinda reminds me of second / third edition Orks in 40k...

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

I feel the need to spread as much Skaven propaganda as I can, as the under empire site is practically dead...

The new threads are few and far between, with new posts only every few days or so.

[Gooball]

Not to mention, they have so much hair and wear so much armour, the main function of the dwarf "courting" process is figuring out what gender the other dwarf is...
Terry pratchett references FTW!
I'd be shocked if the HE got any more new stuff, some of the other armies need stuff much more than them *cough* TK *cough*

[scadugenga]

Chainmail underware - Check


Ye gods, the chafing!

No wonder Dwarves are so irritable.

I don't think there's enough Gold Bond powder in the world...

[CitizenZero]

Skaven and High Elves is confirmed for the core set...

High Elves get a Griffon, Skaven get the Plague Mortar/Launcher/Catapult thingy haha...also 40 Clanrats and 20 Slaves...

Also, before the naysayers... when I say "confirmed," I mean confirmed to me from very reliable sources. So you can choose to take this confirmation with as much grains of salt as you want...haha...

[Brass Scorpion]

GW stores now are now receiving their display sprues from Island Of Blood. Customers in my local GW store were assisting in assembling the models today. They look absolutely terrific. I've seen Swordmasters and the Griffin assembled. Great detail, poses, etc. The Skaven stuff looked good on the sprue. As rumored, 2 Rat Ogres and a Warp Fire Thrower among all the great smaller stuff.

Sorry, I didn't have my camera with me and it was a surprise to find the Island Of Blood sprues coming out for assembly when I got to the store, so I don't have pictures, but with the sprues arriving near simultaneously in all GW stores it won't be long before pics are all over the forums. I spent the day basing my Tyrannofex, finishing my Chaos Giant converion and building the store's preview Bloodcrusher sprues. The Bloodcrushers can build three command models (which I did) or three regular troopers, and there are extra heads and great looking tiny decorative bits. I'm going to want more than one set of those for sure.

GW stores need to have the Island Of Blood models built and painted for display by the first week in August, so I suspect a lot of those one-man operated GW stores are going to be looking for assistance from customers as was the case in my local store today.

[eldargal]

I have this vain hope that the mage might be a girl.:rolleyes: I would go to a store and look for myself, but I fell of my horse and bruised my bottom, so please someone post some pictures already.:(

[addamsfamily36]

I have this vain hope that the mage might be a girl. I would go to a store and look for myself, but I fell of my horse and bruised my bottom, so please someone post some pictures already.


Sorry to disappoint, but i believe that its a guy mage.

[scadugenga]

I have this vain hope that the mage might be a girl.:rolleyes: I would go to a store and look for myself, but I fell of my horse and bruised my bottom, so please someone post some pictures already.:(

Dit Da Jow will help with that.

[CitizenZero]

High Elves plz?

[scadugenga]

Holy cats, those skaven look cool.

Can't wait to see what my HE will look like...

[Lunar Camel]

Got this from a GW store. Skaven is in the starter set.

[Herr Wiggles]

High Elves plz?

I wasnt able to snag pics today, but Ill let you know, the elves, they are damned sexy models, the griffon especially.

[Caradryan]

I wasnt able to snag pics today, but Ill let you know, the elves, they are damned sexy models, the griffon especially.


Please, please, please post those damned pics! We are in your hands :)

[eldargal]

Some HE pics here:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4829921#post4829921
Love, LOVE the Griffon.

I'll be in my bunk.

[Caradryan]

Some HE pics here:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4829921#post4829921
Love, LOVE the Griffon.

I'll be in my bunk.

Yes.. but the server i down!!!!! The HEEEEEELLLLL!!!!!

[eldargal]

Just hit refresh a bit, its been funny since last night.

[Caradryan]

I've got it!!!

[3dken]

I have more pix, but I can't post any more until a moderator "approves" the posts I uploaded. I guess I can only UL 4 pix? Sorry guys!

[Scryer in the Darkness]

I have more pix, but I can't post any more until a moderator "approves" the posts I uploaded. I guess I can only UL 4 pix? Sorry guys!
Upload them to an outside photo host like photobucket or imageshack and then post links. Or e-mail 'em to me (PM me) and I'll upload them for you.

[eldargal]

The price is reportedly 99USD, so that will be about 50-60 pounds, and a good three hundred Austalian/Canadian dollars*.:rolleyes:


*Slight exagerration. Maybe.

[3dken]

Let's try this again! This time Links....

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8103/iphonedownload060.jpg
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2077/iphonedownload061a.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7691/iphonedownload062.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2908/iphonedownload063.jpg
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2742/iphonedownload064.jpg
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/9536/iphonedownload065.jpg
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8060/iphonedownload066.jpg
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/7363/iphonedownload067.jpg
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/2658/iphonedownload068.jpg

Someone was painting the mage at the time I took the pix.

Die!, Die! Man-Things!!

[DarkAngelHopeful]

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/300/300189.page#1754638

Here are some pics that were posted at Dakka Dakka.

[3dken]

Yeah, I uploaded them to imageshack then used the forum code to embed them. I sent a message to an admin to find out what's up. I forgot about the links code! :) So, I reposted with links, enjoy! XP

[eldargal]

Wow that mage is really nice. They all are, even the Skaven. God help me I might end up collecting Skaven too.

[DarkAngelHopeful]

So, here is my cost analysis of the High Elves based on eldargals report of the set being 99USD and what Max_Killfactor from Warseer wrote (pricing will be based on GW US prices before taxes)

"Max_Killfactor/Warseer wrote:
I just saw them.

Unless other stuff was hidden, this is all I think comes in the box:

10 Swordmasters with cmd
10 Sea Guard with cmd
5 Reavers (not sure about the cmd)
Griffon
Mage

10 Swordmasters with cmd = ($24.75 + $27.25 = $52)
10 Sea Guard with cms = ($35, with the idea that you just buy a standard box of 16 spear elves)
5 Reavers = ($61.25)
Griffon = ($35)
Mage = ($13.25)

Grand total worth = @ $196.50

And that's just the High Elves! Not including the Skaven. If this box set is truly $99 USD it's worth way more than $99.

Respectfully,
DarkAngelHopeful

P.S. I plan on buying a lot of extra HE models that anyone wants to ebay or whatever. I'm planning on doing the same with my Skaven.

Sorry for not posting this earlier, but here's the Skaven cost break down.

Based on what Max_Killfactor/Warseer wrote:

"20 Clanrats with hw and shield
20 Clanrats with spears and shield
1 warpfire thrower
1 poisoned wind mortar
2 rat ogres with master moulder (or maybe just a regular beast handler)
Warlord
Engineer"


20 Clanrats with hw and shield = ($33)
20 Clanrats with spears and shield ($33)
1 warpfire thrower = ($15)
1 poisoned wind mortar ($10, I think he may mean poisoned wind globadier?)
2 rat ogres with master moulder (or maybe just a regular beast handler) ($40?, not sure, I just found this http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat50043&prodId=prod1040496)
Warlord = ($15)
Engineer = ($13.25)

Grand total = @159.25

This isn't 100% accurate as you have to buy boxes of 16 spear elves not just 10 and I think the Rat Orge box kit has some extras that aren't in the Island of Blood, but it's pretty close.

By my numbers, the Final Grand total for both HE and Skaven in Island of blood is @$355.75 USD.

[3dken]

Yeah, that's about right, give or take, except for the poison wind mortar. The wind mortar is a weapons team attachment for the poison wind globadiers, and would be more in the $15-$18 range. I don't doubt that the new box will be $99. GW jacked the price of the 40k starter set from $75 to $90 and left the WFB starter at $75 (probably because the new one was coming out). Sad! I bought the 40k starter when it was only $60! A $30 increase in under two years!?.... I digress... :)

[DarkAngelHopeful]

Yeah, that's about right, give or take, except for the poison wind mortar. The wind mortar is a weapons team attachment for the poison wind globadiers, and would be more in the $15-$18 range. I don't doubt that the new box will be $99. GW jacked the price of the 40k starter set from $75 to $90 and left the WFB starter at $75 (probably because the new one was coming out). Sad! I bought the 40k starter when it was only $60! A $30 increase in under two years!?.... I digress... :)

Sweet, that's good to know. That just means that the set is worth that much more. :)

[eldargal]

Someone on Warseer has pointed out that not all sprues have necessarily been included in the black box, this has been known to happen. So there *might* be more models in the starter box than we know of for sure at present. Possibly still poison wind thingies and whatnot, or possibly two lots of certain sprues (seaguard) for example. I wouldn't go getting hopes up though, but nor would I rule it out. The HE force does seem a little thin at present.

[scadugenga]

Here are 3dkens big pictures, thought I'd embed them here:


Edit: Ok, they might be a little too big.

Yarg.

Link them, perhaps?

[eldargal]

They are here on the previous page, page eleven. Changed my previous post, too.



Yarg.

Link them, perhaps?

[scadugenga]

Gotcha. Thanks.

Yeah, the elves do look stunning.

Though I would've hoped for a few more spearmen... ;)

[harrybuttwhisker]

and the staff member that leaked them is so getting his *** fired, the staff have had so much paperwork from head office underlining secrecy and the confidentiality agreements that this guy is toast lol

[3dken]

100% conformation, the new box set is $99 US, and pre-orders start August 10th.

[DarkAngelHopeful]

100% conformation, the new box set is $99 US, and pre-orders start August 10th.

Awesome! Thanks for the confirmation update. =D Well, I'll be looking forward to August 10th!

[Aldramelech]

Now that I dont mind paying for.