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epoch7
08-04-2009, 08:54 AM
So among my circle of friends i see a couple of armies:

Eldar w/Falcon, Wave Serpent bopping around with a Farseer, and Wraith Lords, War Walkers...urgh.
Tau Army with Devilfish and Hammerheads....and so many Kroot.
A White Scars Space Marine army thats all bikes.

So I've been tweaking my daemons to be more effective against these types of armies: vehicles, fast armies, mech. Here's the list:


1 Bloodthirster: Instrument of Chaos, Unholy Might: 275 points
1 Herald of Slaanesh on a Mount: Unholy Might, Soporific Musk: 90 points
7 Flamers: 245 points
10 Daemonettes: Chaos Icon, Instrument of Chaos: 170 points
10 Seekers (I like to put the Herald in this unit for DS): Chaos Icon, Instrument of Chaos: 195 points
10 Plaguebearers: Noxious Touch, Instrument of Chaos: 165 points
1 Soul Grinders: Tongue Profile: 135 Points
1 Soul Grinders: 160 Points
5 Nurglings (to sneak off with a quick objective): 65 points


1500 on the button. I can kind of see switching out the Herald for something else, but I don't know what. The profiles on the Soul Grinders are expensive, as well. I could use those points for maybe a Bolt of Tzeentch on the Flamers. They have higher BS, but its S8 vs S10. Or 2 more daemonettes, if i go over by 3 points. I hear complains about not playing my bloodcrushers, but they dont have rending. Let me know what you think. :p

Chumbalaya
08-04-2009, 11:03 AM
Fiends, Tzeralds on chariots, Flesh Hounds, Tzeentch DPs. You have to be fast enough to catch them, capable to finish off the insides, and shoot if necessary.

drummerholt1234
08-04-2009, 11:10 AM
Nurglings can't capture objectives JSYK...

epoch7
08-04-2009, 07:53 PM
Nurglings can't capture objectives JSYK...

I respectfully disagree. It doesn't say anything in the 5th ed. swarm rules about objectives or in the codex that they can't hold objectives. This came up at the beginning of a game and I was assured by one of my rules-lawyer friends that this was no longer the case. :)

If I had to take them out I might take out the Herald, too, and replace them with a unit of Fiends.

Drax
08-04-2009, 08:39 PM
actually it does say in swarm rules that, they can not capture objectives

epoch7
08-04-2009, 08:45 PM
Here's the swarm rules from the book. I'd concede that I don't know the rules inside and out. Are there other swarm rules listed somewhere else? This is from the USR section.

http://imgur.com/bYU1q.png

Madjob
08-04-2009, 09:43 PM
Here's the swarm rules from the book. I'd concede that I don't know the rules inside and out. Are there other swarm rules listed somewhere else? This is from the USR section.

Check the section on scoring units further in the book. Troops with the Swarm special rule cannot hold objectives.

epoch7
08-04-2009, 11:12 PM
CRAP. Sorry I didn't believe you guys about the rules. I just didn't understand. Well, I guess I should find a good way to spend those points. Although Nurglings are annoying in combat, all they can do now is contest objectives.

Well if I do as Chumbalaya siggested I could convert my Slaanesh Herald into a Tzeentch Herald on a chariot. That's 155 points for Tzeentch Herald on a Chariot with Bolt of Tzeentch, Breath of Chaos, Chaos Icon and Master of Sorcery.

Or a DP for a crapton of points w/flight, but then hes just going to be a huge *** target. i guess the herald on a chariot would be a target too. so much of 40k is shooting. if i lost a flamer i could use the points to give him iron hide/unholy might/flight. then it would be like having a mini bloodthirster.

Bonham63
08-04-2009, 11:39 PM
You should check the points on the seekers, as well. You under cost them, minor but still a couple of points.

epoch7
08-05-2009, 04:25 AM
You should check the points on the seekers, as well. You under cost them, minor but still a couple of points.

Oops, yeah the seekers are off by 5 points w/the IoC included. So, to resummarize:


1 Bloodthirster: Instrument of Chaos, Unholy Might: 275 points
6 Flamers: 210 points
10 Daemonettes: Chaos Icon, Instrument of Chaos: 170 points
10 Seekers: Chaos Icon, Instrument of Chaos: 200 points
10 Plaguebearers: Noxious Touch, Instrument of Chaos: 165 points
1 Soul Grinder: Tongue Profile: 160 points
1 Soul Grinder: 135 points
1 Daemon Prince: Daemonic Flight/Unholy Might/Iron Hide: 190 points


1505 points

Daemons FTW!

Chumbalaya
08-05-2009, 09:32 AM
Don't bother with icons, instruments, or other unit upgrades. Icons are too expensive and useless turn 1 and everything else is filler.

A Tzeentch Chariot should be cheap, bolt and master of sorcery. It helps hunt tanks and provides some extra dakka of its own.

Grab 18 Fiends and any list can be good :P

usekungfu
08-05-2009, 11:58 PM
Do twenty Daemonic troops work for you? I mean if they do that looks good then, I run a unit of fifteen daemonettes, to survive the shooting phase, ten seekers should make it into combat as well.

I like the rest of the list, Seekers are such a wonderful unit although I use fiends instead. Sorry I don't have too much advice though, I normally play against more static armies. Good luck though!

epoch7
08-06-2009, 10:11 AM
Its definitely disconcerting only running 2 units of troops. You either have to table the mechs or just make them quit out of frustration (or get lucky with your objectives).

After all the talk about fiends I did a little comparison of seekers to fiends with interesting results(I think).

Theyre both beasts/cavalry with WS 4, ld 10 and 5+ save. Fiends are way tougher though, with 2 wounds, t4 instead of 1 wound, t3. So with 200 points to spend thats 6 fiends (total of 12 wounds) or 10 seekers (10 wounds, and not 11 because who's not going to take the chaos icon?! either way the fiends give you more wounds per point).

fiends: s5 36 attacks on the charge. thats ~ 1 in 10 chance of penetrating an ap 12.
seekers: s3 50 attacks on the charge. thats ~ 1 in 100 chance of glancing an ap 12.

fiends have hit and run.
seekers have assault and defensive grenades, but because its specifically aura of acquiesence you dont get the vehicle modifier.

so i guess if youre more likely to fight troops, take the seekers, otherwise take the fiends. fiends dont get the benefits of ioc, but theyre less likely to tie combat with their higher strength/toughness. they dont get the chaos icon, but theyre more likely to absorb damage.

so if this list is supposed to defeat mech, I'll take 6 fiends and use the extra 20 points to pay off my 5 extra points and take mark of khorne on the daemon prince for +1 attacks.


1 Bloodthirster: Instrument of Chaos, Unholy Might: 275 points
6 Flamers: 210 points
6 Fiends of Slaanesh: 180 points
10 Daemonettes: Chaos Icon, Instrument of Chaos: 170 points
10 Plaguebearers: Noxious Touch, Instrument of Chaos: 165 points
1 Soul Grinder: Tongue Profile: 160 points
1 Soul Grinder: 135 points
1 Daemon Prince: Daemonic Flight/Unholy Might/Iron Hide/Mark of Khorne: 205 points


1500 points on the nose.

usekungfu
08-06-2009, 01:05 PM
Fiends will not disappoint you, believe me, they've been my money maker lately, them and a big unit of daemonettes. I really like this list, although in the same points I run four troops, but if that works for you.

I might have to try this though :D

Chumbalaya
08-06-2009, 11:03 PM
Fiends >>> Seekers. High S, multiple wounds, T4 and H&R seal the deal. Icons are a waste of points.

List needs more Fiends, every list needs more Fiends.

Instead of trying to get a pseudo Bloodthirster, why not just field another? Split the PBs into smaller units for padding out your waves, grab more Fiends, and just run the Grinders naked and hitty.

epoch7
08-17-2009, 10:15 PM
I've run the list 3 times now. Alternately, I run the the Flamers in two units of 3 as well as 2 units of 5 Plaguebearers. This list works, people! I went 1-0-2. I could probably do better as a tactician and get some better results...

Chumbalaya
08-17-2009, 10:48 PM
Winning once doesn't mean it works lol

What armies did you play? Which missions? What gave you problems?

epoch7
08-17-2009, 10:52 PM
i played the armies i listed in my first post. except instead of the white scars on bikes i played an imperial guard army that I don't really know a ton about. It was a mix of mech and infantry, and not totally competitive. I beat that list and tied the other two, but I could have beat the Tau if the game didnt end on turn 5 and I would have lost the eldar game if it didnt end on turn 5.

Chumbalaya
08-18-2009, 08:05 AM
What in particular did you have trouble with? Which units performed well? Which didn't?

These are the questions you ask yourself to help improve your army/strategy.

Norbu the Destroyer
08-18-2009, 03:56 PM
Try the Masque. My only advice to Demon players. I'm no expert at them but I know I like her. If you dont like her dont use her but after trying her I think you will be pleasently surprised.

epoch7
08-18-2009, 04:26 PM
Try the Masque. My only advice to Demon players. I'm no expert at them but I know I like her. If you dont like her dont use her but after trying her I think you will be pleasently surprised.

I've played the masque a couple of times. She's usually dead right after her shooting phase. Recently though someone informaed of the technique of using multiple independent characters to assemple a unit around a character such as the masque, who is not an IC. Due to daemon special rules, though, the only unit this works with is the Herald of Slaanesh. So I could pile her in a unit with two or three heralds and make a weird mess. You can give those Heralds all Pavane, too. So if you were crazy you could give the Heralds Pavane or Demonic Gaze and mount them on seekers. if the combat starts to get close you could move the masque out of coherency, pavane your attacker, shoot with the heralds and charge into assault.

they are rending too so this double****s eldar wraith lords!!

Norbu the Destroyer
08-19-2009, 09:53 AM
I dont think there is any way to attach anyone to the Masque. She is not an independent charachter and can therefore not join a unit. Just like a carnifex can not join a unit. Granted, independent charachters can join a unit but not to a charachter that cant join back. I believe this is the way to play it legaly, but I still recommend the Masque.

epoch7
08-19-2009, 12:11 PM
if thats really the case then the masque is totally useless. you can give the pavane of slaanesh ability to models that can join units and partcipate in a game of 40k, not just deep strike and die from 15 bolter shots.