Tactica: Assault Marines

[Sir Biscuit]

Hello all.

I've recently begun using a second squad of assault marines in my games, and I thought I would post a few of my thoughts here. They seem to work very well for me, so I thought I would spread the love and tell people of my ways, for I see so very few Assault Marines in people's lists. Anyway, on to the meat of it:

Why Assault Marines?
My assault marine epiphany began when I was teaching a friend of mine the game, and I was building intentionally underpowered lists. One unit that kept making it in, of course, was Vanguard Veterans with jump packs. After a few games, I started to notice something.

These guys are good.

Not in a kill everything kind of way, not in an opponent-can't-deal-with-them kind of way, but in a nice all-rounder kind of way. Of course, like hell I'm paying 30 points per guy in a standard list, but lucky me they have a little brother: the humble assault marine. Decent melee, shooting that should not be underestimated, and balls fast, I had found a unit that really does encompass that "fast attack" role. IN addition, they seem to have a bit of a crappy reputation, so even veteran gamers tend to underestimate the havoc they can wreak.

Le'ts start by discussing their most important asset:

Mobility
Assault marines are a lot faster than people give them credit for. Here's a few things to keep in mind when selecting them:
1.) Always give them jump packs. The "free" Rhino, Razorback or Drop pod you can take in its stead simply slows them down, as you have to maneuver around terrain and can't deep strike in the first two, and you lose additional mobility after a deep strike with the pod. Suck it up, take a ten man squad, and realize you'll lose a few on the way. That's 40k.
2.) Jump packs are FAST. Remember, it's a 12" move that ignores terrain. Something I find a lot of players forget: jump troops are allowed to jump into impassible terrain, as long as the model can stand on it. Sure, there's a dangerous terrain test, but it's worth it to lose a guy or two to stay out of the enemies sight until I strike, or close with them at a speed they can't deal with.
3.) That speed, along with their ability to deep strike if need be, means they almost always get to be the ones charging. This is especially important against Orks.
4.) It also means that they get to choose who they want to charge, and "bubble wrapping" units and trying to hide them is less effective against assault marines.
5.) Because of their extreme mobility, it's very easy to multi-charge enemy units. Especially with Shrike, positioning becomes a snap.

For those of you who understand the importance of mobility, battlefield control, and who prize the ability to strike at key targets, I'm sure I have your attention. Of course, how you equip them is important as well. Let's go over the options:

Wargear and Options
1.) A powerfist is mandatory. Mandatory. Thunder hammers also a decent choice, and the obvious replace meant if you are running Vulkan. (Reroll one miss is effectively +1 attack! Hells yes!)
2.) You generally want to take all 10 men. You will take casulaties, and you want them to stay effective. Squads of less than 7 are very unwise.
3.) Because you are taking a powerfist, you will never take meltabombs. You will also never take a combat shield, because it's next to useless.
4.) Lightning claws are not a good option. You need at least a bit of versatility in your squad, and you NEED to be able to bust tanks.
5.) A storm shield for your Sergent is discretionary. You may take one thinking that you will be able to deflect lascannon shots with it, but it's not worth risking your big damage dealer to do it. It can be worth it against some enemies like Tyranids, to keep the sergeant alive and kicking *** long enough to beat up monstrous creatures, but in an all comers list it's not the best choice.
6.) Flamers are decent, and should be your go-to with Vulkan, but I find that they are often overkill. Except on huge light infantry squads, like an orks boys mob, they tend to be unnecessary, as you can kill whatever it is you want to attack by charging it instead. Against heavy infantry like marines, it just isn't that deadly.
7.) Plasma pistols are underutilized and fantastic. Not only do they give you the ability to preemptively kill off enemy heavy units before an assault, but they give you a measure of anti-vehicle firepower. An assault squad with three plasma pistols can easily sink the shots into the side armor of a chimera, and nothing is sweeter than when it explodes and you get to wail on the guys inside. Beautiful. It is true that plasma pistols are an expensive choice, however, so you'll want to playtest with both weapon options before settling on one.

Tactics
The often-quoted Sun-Tzu:
The army's formation is like water.
The water's formation avoids the high and rushes to the low.
So an army's formation avoids the strong and rushes to the weak.
Water's formation adapts to the ground when flowing.
So then an army's formation adapts to the enemy to achieve victory.

This is the approach you should be taking with your assault marines. In fact, it's the approach you should take with all your marines, but that is for another time. The point is this:
Assault marines are fast.
Because they are fast, they only have to assault the things you want them too. If you don't want to fight something, you can easily run away from it, and engage elsewhere.

This makes them very potent backline-slayers. Artillery, tanks, heavy weapon squads... anything your opponent wants out of assault, the assault marines are masters at getting at. And how! They may seem average on paper, but I guarantee you'll swiftly change your tune after they wipe your second long fang squad.

Remember, as well, that your squads don't have to fight. If you don't have a special character, combat tactics is your best friend, allowing you to hit and run the things you actually want to get at.

The other important thing to keep in mind is that this mobility allows you to localize force. It's easy to get your assault marines into assaults with other units in your forces, turning a narrow victory or outright loss into a win.

Deployment
The final thing I want to talk about is also the first thing you do in a game: deploy.

This is the part where most people screw their assault marines. This is the checklist for things to look fro when you deploy:
1.) Is the enemy fielding AP3 artillery? Will I be able to shoot at it/disable it first turn? Is it coming in form reserve?
If it's on the table, and you think you can neutralize it with shooting, start your marines on the table. If it's in reserve, start your marines on the table. If you can destroy it, put your marines on the table. If you can't, deep strike. Templates make foot squads go away.
2.) Is my opponent Chaos, other Space Marines (any variant), With Hunters, Dark Eldar or Tau?
If this is yes, deep strike. Against these armies, you need to strike at vulnerable spots as they appear, and if you start your marines on the table they will spend their first few turns waiting for something to happen. Better to deep strike and take advantage of weakened areas than to leave your guys out in the open until they appear.
3.) Is my opponent Daemonhunters, Eldar, Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks, or Tyranids?
If this is yes, you can generally start on the table, though be mindful of artillery. These armies will want to get in your face, so use your assault squad(s) on your flanks to kill weak elements, and help squads deal with larger units that you can't spare your elite troops to deal with.
4.) Is my opponent's army built with an element that pushes forward, that is supported by rear elements like artillery, heavy weapons squads, long range tanks etc?
Deep striking makes these units life a living hell. Being able to deep strike an assault squad next to a basilisk, or in back of a Leman Russ, and disable it with plasma pistols long enough to attach grenades next turn is a thing of awesome beauty. Remember, they can't run from you, you're balls fast. The primary melee element of your opponents army will be out of position, so you have free reign of the back field. Enjoy it.

In addition, if you are deep striking, remember not to deep strike next to a heavy weapons team that can toast your assault squad. I am enraged by the number of times I've seen people deep strike next to a huge plasma cannon squad, and get vaporized. YOU HAVE AN 18" ASSAULT RANGE. USE IT. Deep strike out of sight. In cover. Behind an immobilized tank, something, anything. 18" is huge, and you'll get where you're going.

I hope that this article has been helpful to you, and I'm curious as to your thoughts. So, what do you think?

[Squirrel_Fish]

Great write up! I've always been tempted to run a big squad of these guys, but always felt that that they were too easy to kill since they can't assault the turn they deep-strike and can get turned into a jump-pack decorated crater in an instant. I'll give them a spin next chance I get.

[entendre_entendre]

I suppose the same tactics could (generally) be adopted to Raptors as well. This may make me consider actially taking my shrieking sky beasts once again.

...

Ye- No. I like 'zerkers a lot more for roughly the same cost.

[Sir Biscuit]

It's hard to argue against Berserkers, as they're possibly the best assault unit in the game.

However, you may want to consider that against many armies Berserkers are overkill against many units, and mobility may better serve you than pure melee power.

Plus, raptors can take the holy grail of special weapons: melta guns.

Though they do cost much more and their powerfist is hella expensive, so YMMV on raptors, I suppose.

[ggg]

Alright, I've painted up an assault squad with lightning claws sgt, melta bomb, and 2 flamers - I'm going to test them out at the first opportunity. I have used 2 plasma pistols / p fist sgt combos before and I was not loving the fist - (I tend to have a few scattered elsewhere about my army). I think that the L claws with the flamers would enable me to put enough wounds on large infantry blocks to be viable choice.

Does anyone else rate the L claws over the P fist?

[Sir Biscuit]

A quick bit of mathhammer:

Lightning claws.
Against T3, WS 3 (Guardsman, gaunts)
2/3 hit, 2/3 to wound with a reroll, and ignores armor times four attacks=2.37 kills.
Against T4, WS4 (Orks, Marine equivalents)
1/2 hit, 1/2 wound with a reroll, and ignore armor times four attacks=1.5 kills

The power fist or thunder hammer:
Against T3, WS 3 (Guardsman, gaunts)
2/3 hit, 5/6, and ignores armor times three attacks=1.67 kills.
Against T4, WS4 (Orks, Marine equivalents)
1/2 hit, 5/6 wound, and ignore armor times three attacks=1.25 kills

So, against infantry, the lightning claws are hardly better. Is it really worth giving up your ability to hurt tanks and monstrous creatures just so you can kill 1 more infantry per turn? I hardly think so.

It's also good to keep in mind that against T4 the powerfist has a better chance to wound: 83% instead of 75% As toughness goes up, the gap widens in favor of the powerfist.

Then again, lightning claws are damn cool, so it might just be worth it for the looks. :D

[Squirrel_Fish]

A quick bit of mathhammer:

Lightning claws.
Against T3, WS 3 (Guardsman, gaunts)
2/3 hit, 2/3 to wound with a reroll, and ignores armor times four attacks=2.37 kills.
Against T4, WS4 (Orks, Marine equivalents)
1/2 hit, 1/2 wound with a reroll, and ignore armor times four attacks=1.5 kills

The power fist or thunder hammer:
Against T3, WS 3 (Guardsman, gaunts)
2/3 hit, 5/6, and ignores armor times three attacks=1.67 kills.
Against T4, WS4 (Orks, Marine equivalents)
1/2 hit, 5/6 wound, and ignore armor times three attacks=1.25 kills

So, against infantry, the lightning claws are hardly better. Is it really worth giving up your ability to hurt tanks and monstrous creatures just so you can kill 1 more infantry per turn? I hardly think so.

It's also good to keep in mind that against T4 the powerfist has a better chance to wound: 83% instead of 75% As toughness goes up, the gap widens in favor of the powerfist.

Then again, lightning claws are damn cool, so it might just be worth it for the looks. :D

In an assault squad, take the fist or hammer. The flexibility is worth it.

Terminator squads on the other hand, throwing one or two Lightning Claws into a squad of 6-8 is acceptable to clear some fodder (reducing the amount of attacks landing on your squad) while also providing some ablative wounds for the killing blow of Thunder Hammers.

[Mobious]

Thanks for great read man! Its true you rarely ever see Assault squads in marines armies, but I think its is because of one major factor you failed to mention--their FOC slot. Every Assault Squad you take is one less Land Speeder squadron in your army. And seeing as that MM/HF option is so useful and inexpensive, I would take it over an assault squad any day. Other than that I think the real failing of Assault Marines is their lack of Melta Gun options

Without Melta Guns they are unable to reliably destroy a transport and assault what is inside. Yes Plasma Pistols are nice, but they do not do the job that Meltas do. I think they should at least be able to wield 6" range melta pistols or something. Because without that sort of option, Assault Squads are out of the running IMO. Its all good though, Blood Angels are right around the corner and they will give a new definition to Assault Marines.

[johnnyfoodmaster]

That's a great write up. I was a fan of assault marines as soon as I saw a jump pack. I use them frequently, but I'm always afraid to deep strike them. I think I'll try next time.

The Black Library novels make them sound so cool, so I've been trying to make them cool.

[Master Bryss]

Oh teh noes, no melta guns! Whatever shall I do?!

On a more serious note, I frequently run a ten-man squad with two plasma pistols, although because I built the squad when I was 11, the Sarge has a power sword and combat shield. Your article has inspired me to do something about that. I need more power fists anyway. Deep striking them is risky, but on a good day you might get the side or back armour off a vehicle.

So overall, I like them a lot better than Vanguards, and thanks for inspiring me to use them more often.

[RocketRollRebel]

A very nice article I'd never really looked at vanilla assault marines that much since BA have our awesome VAS but I'd for some reason never thought of them in a Vulkan list. Good call.

[Xas]

that writeup remembered me again why I think some GW bookwriters are idiots.

chaos raptors can replace their boltpistol with a plasma psitol for 5 points more than an additional meltagun would cost them.

yes, the subpar item is more expensive...

plasma has -1s, +2ap, gets hot and doesnt get 2d6 at close.
melta is 5 points cheaper.

haha!


nevertheless the idea is good but I'd not forget about the possibility to take them as fast special weapon squads. at least chaos can get 5 man with 2 special weapons, moving fast for a few points, actually fewer than any other way to get 2 special weapons moving at 12" speed!

[therealjohnny5]

as a RG player i have to say i do take LC's on my Assault marines. However i am in favor of a thunderhammer or Pfist when not going strictly fluff. the only thing i'd add is remember LC's give re-rolls if you're taking the pair, and i do of course...admittedly though there are like 32 attacks on the charge coming from a full squad so...most anything will die...i run two as well. they are amazing and also a cheap bodyguard unit if placed in a LR with Pedro for you C fisters out there....with his +1 attack it's not even nice what you're doing to people then...

[DarkLink]

that writeup remembered me again why I think some GW bookwriters are idiots.

chaos raptors can replace their boltpistol with a plasma psitol for 5 points more than an additional meltagun would cost them.

yes, the subpar item is more expensive...

plasma has -1s, +2ap, gets hot and doesnt get 2d6 at close.
melta is 5 points cheaper.

haha!


nevertheless the idea is good but I'd not forget about the possibility to take them as fast special weapon squads. at least chaos can get 5 man with 2 special weapons, moving fast for a few points, actually fewer than any other way to get 2 special weapons moving at 12" speed!

I can't ever remember a time when plasma pistols were worth the 15pts you paid for them, except in very special cases that I can't think of.

[Sir Biscuit]

as a RG player i have to say i do take LC's on my Assault marines. However i am in favor of a thunderhammer or Pfist when not going strictly fluff. the only thing i'd add is remember LC's give re-rolls if you're taking the pair, and i do of course...admittedly though there are like 32 attacks on the charge coming from a full squad so...most anything will die...i run two as well. they are amazing and also a cheap bodyguard unit if placed in a LR with Pedro for you C fisters out there....with his +1 attack it's not even nice what you're doing to people then...

Do you mean the reroll to wound? If so, you don't even need the pair for that, all teh second claw gets you is +1 attack. Also, it's good to keep in mind that wounding on 4+ with a reroll is worse than simply wounding on 2+, which is what powerfists and hammers do.

I've run them with Pedro before, and they're quite nice. The trick there is to use your ranged units (like the Sternguard you certainly have) to kill enemy mobility and counter attack their line with localized force. A ton of fun when it works.


I can't ever remember a time when plasma pistols were worth the 15pts you paid for them, except in very special cases that I can't think of.

I used to say the same thing about hunter-killer missiles. Then I started using them and my mind was blown.

Plasma pistols are good because they give you the ability to mess up whatever "hard target" you land next too. No, they probably won't kill a tank. But all you need is a shaken result so you can charge it next turn without getting blown up.

If you really want to do a point comparison, look at them versus monstrous creatures. 3 plasma pistols deals about 2 wounds a turn, and that's point cost right there against most MC's.

Or, hell, against any other MEQ. They're all fifteen points or more, the same cost as the pistol. Kill one per and it's a wash, kill two and you're way ahead of the game.

Really, I think they look expensive next to other options, but they're hardly not worth it.

[DarkLink]

I used to say the same thing about hunter-killer missiles. Then I started using them and my mind was blown.

Plasma pistols are good because they give you the ability to mess up whatever "hard target" you land next too. No, they probably won't kill a tank. But all you need is a shaken result so you can charge it next turn without getting blown up.

If you really want to do a point comparison, look at them versus monstrous creatures. 3 plasma pistols deals about 2 wounds a turn, and that's point cost right there against most MC's.

Or, hell, against any other MEQ. They're all fifteen points or more, the same cost as the pistol. Kill one per and it's a wash, kill two and you're way ahead of the game.

Really, I think they look expensive next to other options, but they're hardly not worth it.

I think assault squads would qualify as one of those rare special cases. The thing is, they're so overpriced [plasma pistols] that their cost benefit ratio eliminates all but their most effective uses, in this case adding the ability to damage light vehicles and monstrous creatures to assault squads.

And I actually kinda like HK missiles for some situations, now. Such as, when the new 'nidz codex came out with all those monstrous creatures with 3+ saves I thought "a first round salvo of HK missiles would go a long ways to clearing out all those big bugs". Never actually used them, though. I might have to try some on my Sister's Rhinos, now that I think about it. Having 4-5 extra str 8 shots coming from nowhere could be quite useful in some games.

[pgarfunkle]

I love assault marines and always field at least 2 squads in my armies, lucky for me I play Blood Angels so they count as my troops :) Back in third ed I always took 3 plasma pistols in the squads but since starting again in fifth I have developed an astounding ability to roll 1's to hit with the things so I'm now slightly wary (and also for dangerous terrain tests). I have a friend I play against who plays Dark Angels and uses plasma guns who I have never seen roll a 1 to hit with the things. I've told him that he won't have to roll the save I just want the satisfaction of seeing him roll a one to hit lol.

[blueshift]

The initial tactica is obviously aimed at new players, and is quite redundant.

I've been using units of assault marines since 2001. I would like to break down how they've changed over the editions for me.

First, I would like to introduce a little of my background.
In third edition, I started out with orks. I was obsessed with the game and memorized the points cost of every unit and stat. I was very competitive and (probably overly) aggressive.

In order to make myself a better player, I switched to Salamanders... the absolute worst marine list at the time. (I would like to address counter-arguments stating that Chaplains got free thunder hammers and they received the first Eternal Warrior upgrade... no. They still had way too many severe disadvantages).

I took a unit of assault marines purely for the melta bombs. This unit would deepstrike in during battle missions when I was attacking, and very often annihilate a key enemy vehicle or walker. The unit was 5 men strong and had a flamer or two(one of the small advantages of Salamanders at the time). So in third edition, they were a specialist unit VERY capable at what they did.

I was exposed for many years to friends and acquaintances who used 10 man assault squads on a regular basis for, er, assaulting troops. It seemed to work out very well for them.

In fourth edition, compounding the vehicle nerfs, were my assault marines, a bit cheaper now (iirc), floating around with the melta bombs. Excellent times to be had, as transports were completely nerfed in the first place, and several penetrating hits against them made it absolute hell for the passengers.

My second strategy in fourth edition included a chaplain with lightning claws joined to a 10 man assault squad. The liturgies of hate made 30 attacks on the charge very, very worth the cost, and devastated most units.

In fifth edition, I've had the pleasure of contributing extra marine models to a new player and getting a ravenguard army off the ground. Its been quite fun, and I have to say, assault marines are nearly useless.

I have a sizable ork army that plays regularly against marines. I have had a set list since third edition, which has changed slightly over 9 years. The bottom line for that army is that 1.) I am very comfortable with the units 2.) it is super-balanced 3.) many of the units are better in fifth than they ever have been.

What happens much of the time is assault squads, running with shrike, hit a large ork mob and fail to kill them. The orks then strike back and kill several marines. Once these assault squads get stuck in assault, they don't last long.

Even with somewhat strong characters like Shrike, assault marine squads cannot stand up against most specialized assault squads in fifth edition.

This could be easily avoided by assaulting shooty units or vehicles, but tougher shooty units will at best be tied up and the loss of squad-wide melta bombs really hurts the versatility of the squad.

Marines with 3 attacks a piece at regular WS and I simply don't cut it these days. Most opponents are ws4 which means you get 15 hits on the charge, 2/3 or 1/2 wounding. If you are up against a big mob of orks or

And sure, you can toss in the powerfist, but 2 PF attacks a turn aren't exactly that great either. So, I suppose tying up an uber shooty squad for 3 turns could be a good thing. But when my orks eventually cut down that squad of 10 assault marines, I have to question the effectiveness of his dedicated assault unit.

As I stated earlier, its a decent unit that can seriously clog up enemy shooting. But for the same approximate cost (200+ with upgrades for a 10 man squad), you can grab 5 assault terminators and really smash a hole in the enemy. Even a small vanguard unit used with some care and extra choppy weapons can inflict more wounds.

But points effectiveness and hard numbers aside, tactically assault marines can still be viable. The second tactic I used in fourth edition utilizing the chaplain with liturgies of hate was ONLY a counter-assault unit. They were used on second round assaults involving tactical squads getting charged by things they couldn't handle (boyz/CSM/MCs). This proved very effective as I was getting 3/4 hits against WS4 and 4/5 hits against WS3. I would also do combination charges if I needed to using tactical marines and the assault squad.

[DarkLink]

The initial tactica is obviously aimed at new players, and is quite redundant.

...yeah, that's kinda the point. He was relaying his experiences with assault Marines to players who don't use them regularly.



In fifth edition, I've had the pleasure of contributing extra marine models to a new player and getting a ravenguard army off the ground. Its been quite fun, and I have to say, assault marines are nearly useless.

Umm, the whole point of his article is about how much success he's had playing them. Maybe you should read his post, and use his tactics:p.



What happens much of the time is assault squads, running with shrike, hit a large ork mob and fail to kill them. The orks then strike back and kill several marines. Once these assault squads get stuck in assault, they don't last long.

Even with somewhat strong characters like Shrike, assault marine squads cannot stand up against most specialized assault squads in fifth edition.

This could be easily avoided by assaulting shooty units or vehicles, but tougher shooty units will at best be tied up and the loss of squad-wide melta bombs really hurts the versatility of the squad.

One of the points he made in his post was that assault squads will not beat specialized assault units. Ergo, he uses them to mess with the enemy backline. And he's found that it works.



As I stated earlier, its a decent unit that can seriously clog up enemy shooting. But for the same approximate cost (200+ with upgrades for a 10 man squad), you can grab 5 assault terminators and really smash a hole in the enemy. Even a small vanguard unit used with some care and extra choppy weapons can inflict more wounds.

But those assault terminators require a Land Raider to effectively deliver them. And vanguard suffer even more from being very, very expensive yet only granting a limited number of attacks. If an assault squad will bounce off an ork mob, and equally priced vanguard squad will as well.



But points effectiveness and hard numbers aside, tactically assault marines can still be viable.

:confused: you just said they're useless, and explained why you think they're useless...

[Fellend]

I take it non-black templar doesn't get to equip their assault marines with meltabombs for 2p's per marine?

[Nabterayl]

Not anymore, no.

[Sir Biscuit]

Honestly, I find it doesn't matter.

Even if I could take meltabombs, I wouldn't. I mean, yes, they're more effective than krak grenades, but most of the time, krak grenades do the job just fine. The VAST majority of vehicles have a rear armor value of 10, and 9 ST6 attacks with the three from the powerfist are usually more than enough. The only vehicles you can't hurt (14 all round) are land raiders and monoliths. Against monoliths, you don't get the extra d6, so it's not worth charging, (can't kill them, since you can only glance) and against land raiders you should easily be able to avoid them. Land raiders are in-your-face units, and assault marines should be in the enemy backline. Who doesn't bring a few melta weapons these days for just this occasion?

Let me say it again: assault marines will not beat dedicated assault units. Stop throwing them into boyz mobs, people! I can count the things that will kill a 30 man boyz squad in melee on one hand. Assault marines are not on this short list.

Instead, use that mobility to your advantage. Ork players could care less if you assault their boyz squads with your marines, but marines who deep strike in the back and start wailing on loota squads are worth their weight in gold. Know how many lootas an assault squad can take? Lots.

It's all about target selection. No one would say that thunder hammer terminators are bad because bloodletters easily kill them, or that land raiders are useless because of meltaguns. It's about target selection, and realizing where your strengths are best used.

[Fellend]

Okay so I play black templar and my assault squads are slightly different but honestly. Since when do you lose to boys in assaults? You charge them, kill like 10 of them they strike back, and then run away and get slaughtered. Next turn you jump straight into that dread, monolith, defiler or landraider and pop it open with meltas and wham, you are down to maybe 6 assault marines that can jump onto the next target.

Despite having killed themselves several times (best case, everyone but plasma dies in a jump and the plasma fires and kills itself...) The assault unit remains my absolute favorite unit. It can be anywhere, it can take down any foe and it usually lives to tell the tale.
For a measly 212 points I get 8 assault marines with meltabombs, power weapon and two plasma pistols.
There's literally no threat they can't deal with (I guess MC's would be a bit snarky but I seldom play 'nids)

I have yet to create a list that does not include at least 8 assault marines and with some few vindicator related exceptions they always pay back their points.

[therealjohnny5]

Honestly, I find it doesn't matter.

Even if I could take meltabombs, I wouldn't. I mean, yes, they're more effective than krak grenades, but most of the time, krak grenades do the job just fine. The VAST majority of vehicles have a rear armor value of 10, and 9 ST6 attacks with the three from the powerfist are usually more than enough. The only vehicles you can't hurt (14 all round) are land raiders and monoliths. Against monoliths, you don't get the extra d6, so it's not worth charging, (can't kill them, since you can only glance) and against land raiders you should easily be able to avoid them. Land raiders are in-your-face units, and assault marines should be in the enemy backline. Who doesn't bring a few melta weapons these days for just this occasion?

Let me say it again: assault marines will not beat dedicated assault units. Stop throwing them into boyz mobs, people! I can count the things that will kill a 30 man boyz squad in melee on one hand. Assault marines are not on this short list.

Instead, use that mobility to your advantage. Ork players could care less if you assault their boyz squads with your marines, but marines who deep strike in the back and start wailing on loota squads are worth their weight in gold. Know how many lootas an assault squad can take? Lots.

It's all about target selection. No one would say that thunder hammer terminators are bad because bloodletters easily kill them, or that land raiders are useless because of meltaguns. It's about target selection, and realizing where your strengths are best used.

Absolutely! it's a similar situation with Shrike, he's a infantry and light armor killer but that's it. Throwing shrike at a carnifex or hive tyrant and guard will more often than not end up with a 195 pt fly splattered on the carapace of that MC...Target selection for Assault marines is necessary. couldn't agree more. Occasionally you can squash a power armored unit or some MC by sheer volume of attacks but you'll be coming out a few guys thinner for sure. But if i take a 10 man squad and throw them at a 20+ squad of gaunts or whatever, it's a good bet i'll be coming out on top.

And that's a good consideration tactically for Assault marines is the first round Shrike assault when you infiltrate with him.


Okay so I play black templar and my assault squads are slightly different but honestly. Since when do you lose to boys in assaults? You charge them, kill like 10 of them they strike back, and then run away and get slaughtered. Next turn you jump straight into that dread, monolith, defiler or landraider and pop it open with meltas and wham, you are down to maybe 6 assault marines that can jump onto the next target.

Despite having killed themselves several times (best case, everyone but plasma dies in a jump and the plasma fires and kills itself...) The assault unit remains my absolute favorite unit. It can be anywhere, it can take down any foe and it usually lives to tell the tale.
For a measly 212 points I get 8 assault marines with meltabombs, power weapon and two plasma pistols.
There's literally no threat they can't deal with (I guess MC's would be a bit snarky but I seldom play 'nids)

I have yet to create a list that does not include at least 8 assault marines and with some few vindicator related exceptions they always pay back their points.

The unit may be fearless which will simply bog down the assault squad another turn possibly. If i'm headed into a tough unit i usually use Sternguard of Tac rapid fire to thin the ranks on my way in plus flamer fire or pistol fire if it's a big squad and i'm sure of the assault.

[Fellend]

Wait, what? Space marines can shoot...?

Still fearless well don't really mind that much, it just means that my assault marines get to sit nicely in cover untill i can butcher them in his assault phase. Should they against all odds survive that also I suppose it would be slightly annoying.

But I found that usually people worry so much against anything that's coming at them fast which are actually killable that they tend to forget to fire on things like rhinos =)

[therealjohnny5]

mmmm...rhinos.....yeah i like to hit with an assault squad then move them to the next unit asap. If i'm pretty confident on my shooting units sometimes i'll combat squad the assault squads and then if they get tied up it's not so bad. bc i'm engaging more units that way, while unnoticed by my opponent that rhino or razor back with 5 tac marines roll on back field and secure my objectives i left wide open...

[papa smurf]

i really liked the article, good read! i regularly use a 10 man squad of assault marines in my space marine list, with two plasma pistols (one on the sergeant) a flamer, power sword, and melta bombs for the sergeant. they can handle pretty much anything, except MC's (didn't really factor in what a PF or thunder hammer could do for them when i first assembled them).
the problem with me though was that i was sending them up against things like boyz mobs, my reasoning being that they're really the only ones that can handle them in assault (sometimes i'd have TH/SS termies and a command squad, but i use them to attack bigger things). So, my assault marines were dying when i felt like they could be better.
These ideas help me out quite a bit, as i never figured to use them as harassment units against support units (that's what my drop pod marines do :p). thanks for the write up.