Possible new marine army

[daveclark890]

Hey everybody,

I have orks and necrons at the moment but have been reading through the Rynns World Batte book and I have always had a soft spot for the crimson fists since the cover of the rules they were on so to start it i have come up with the following::

HQ

Librarian

Troops

10 Man Tac Squad with Flamer and Missile Launcher
Razorback with Lascannon Twin Plasma gun

10 Man Tac Squad with Flamer and Missile Launcher
Razorback with Lascannon Twin Plasma gun

Heavy Support

5 Man Devastator squad wth 4 Missile launchers.


What I need to know is

i) Do razorbacks come with a Las twin Plas weapon loadout in the box or do I have to make it my self?? couldnt find it on forgeworld site.
ii) do you think this is a viable 750 points as the start of a larger force?

My plan is to use the devs and the heavy weapons parts of the tac squads to pummle infantry blocks or to hit vehicles and the flamers and librarian to take objectives and do the close range stuff with the 2 razorbacks there as protection and to add some anti-everything firepower.

:confused:

[AirHorse]

For 750 points its a reasonable starting position.

I wouldnt go with those lascannon/twin plasama load outs on the razorbacks, you plan to use them to move combat squads around alot so you often wont be shooting any weapons, and I personally dont find it a good weapon combo as cool as the idea is in my head. You already have six missile launchers so I would just stick with the heavy bolters, which still have a decent kick to them when you arent shipping your marines around the board.

You could then use the points gained to get a couple more marines in that devastator squad to protect those launchers or maybe a power fist or two if you can squeeze them in on your seargents. I would probaly go with more marines in the devastator squad personally, with only five men they are quite vulnerable.

[Nabterayl]

What I need to know is

i) Do razorbacks come with a Las twin Plas weapon loadout in the box or do I have to make it my self?? couldnt find it on forgeworld site.
You'll have to make it yourself, unless you can find one of the really old kits.


ii) do you think this is a viable 750 points as the start of a larger force?

My plan is to use the devs and the heavy weapons parts of the tac squads to pummle infantry blocks or to hit vehicles and the flamers and librarian to take objectives and do the close range stuff with the 2 razorbacks there as protection and to add some anti-everything firepower.

:confused:
I think it's a pretty solid list at 750. The marine lists I've played against that were most scary didn't get seduced into too much of the sexy expensive First Company stuff, and concentrated on fielding as big a chunk of a battle company as possible.

I have to agree with AirHorse about the las/plas, though. Unless you have a super specific need for a mechanized plasma gun, I think it strikes a poor balance between anti-vehicle and anti-infantry.

[Tynskel]

those las-plas razorbacks are awesome-I disagree with the others. In a 750 point game, those Razorbacks pack some serious firepower.

Looks like you have 10 points to spare...

I would maybe upgrade one tac squad to a Plasma Rifle. What powers are you giving your Librarian?

The only thing I don't like about your list is that it is mediocre in the Close Combat department. If you aren't going to go with power weapons or fists, I recommend Down grading the two tac squad missile launchers to Hv Bolters.

What I really think will give you flexibility in your list would be to do some shenanigans:

HQ: 100
Librarian w/ Smite and Might of Ancients. (good mix of shooting and CC)

Hv Support 210
Devastator Squad
5 Marines, 3 Missile Launchers
Dedicated Transport: Razorback w/Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasma Rifle

Troops 440
Marine Squad
10 Marines, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs, Flamer, Hv Bolter
Dedicated Transport: Razorback w/Lascannon and Twin-linked Plasma Rifle
Scout Squad
10 Scouts, Hv Bolter, 4 Bolters (or Snipers, but it is nice to be able to rapid fire), 4 Chainswords and Bolt Pistols, Sgt. w/ Powerfist and Shotgun.

You drop a missile launcher from the Devastator squad- but your anti-tank/heavy is both Las-Plas Razorbacks and the 3 missile launchers devastator team. That's pretty solid (meltas are the only way to get better anti-tank!)

You have a great anti-infantry group: Flamer combat squad, backed up by close combat Scouts. Then you have a Librarian with some fire-support/ extra CC punch. To help thin the numbers even more: A hv Bolter with bolter marines, another Hv Bolter with Hellfire shells and more bolter (or snipers-but I would use bolters). With the Scouts you also have some flexibility in set up- early objective grabbers due to infiltrate, and counter set-up.

You can use the las-plas as transports for both cc squads, or just simply fire bases.

Good Luck!

[daveclark890]

psychic powers i was planning on using are "vortex of doom" and "gate of infinity". At 750 points gate would only really be used to back out of combat but in higher points i may have a terminator squad or put my librarian in with my devs so they can move if the enemy gets too close.

I like the idea of usng more of the line troops than special troops in the list and have not had a marines force for the same reason. line troops in the imperium are not marines!!

Im not too worried about having a strong close combat force here because i have the ability to take out the assault part of an ork army or vehicles with the missile launchers and then rapid fire into the few remaining boys just before they charge. I may well go for the heavy boter variant on the razorbacks to provide some more anti-infantry fire to back up the missile launchers, tthen i can use3 the missiles to take armour, the tanks to take mobs and hordes and the marines to finish the rest!!

mmmmmmm the choices for a marine force hey??!!

[daveclark890]

The second part to my possible new army would be the following:

Kantor as my second HQ

2 more Tac squads with missile launchers in Razorbacks with heavy bolters

and every Tac squad sergeant is upgraded with a power fist and my librarian upgraded to an epistolary for a grand total of 745 points and a total force points of 1495.

So I would have 2 dev squads of 2 ML and 3 Marines as well as 4 squads of 1ML and 4 marines with supporting fire for taking hordes or dealing with vehicles.

2 5 man combat squads (1 with a librarian in) and 2 razorbacks for mid ranged attacks as a responce force and claiming objectives in later turns

2 5 man squads (1 with Kantor) and 2 razorbacks for up close as Kantor gives +1 attack within 12" so my sergeants are hitting with 5 attacks on the charge and the squads can kick out 4 attacks each for a charge!! Plus the power fists being in there from Kantor and the 2 sergeants!

C and C please. I am going to wait for your responces before i go and order the bits for this and start the build!!

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[AirHorse]

Powerfists only get a bonus attack from having another powerfist btw, so your seargents will have four attacks on the charge with kantor, unless you are paying loads for them :P.

I wouldnt recommend using an epistolary personally, in the games ive played it doesnt really add too much to your librarian for those 50pts, its actually much more cost effective to get a whole other librarian for 100pts(obviously kantor makes that tough :P). Also on your choice of powers, I rate null zone very highly. It is very helpful when you are dishing out attacks against characters etc. And if you go against daemons, and to a lesser extent, eldar it is totaly awesome :).

Perhaps you should consider putting meltagun/multimelta into one or two of those tactical squads so you can tackle the real nasty stuff. Missile launchers are good, they are flexible and cheap, but if you end up against a landraider or a tyrannofex with its 2+ save they are going to struggle. I wouldnt recommend a razor back for any melta squads though, a rhino is much more useful if you ask me, since it has firepoints that let you keep your marines safe while they make use of the special weapons.

For Close combat threat I use either a 10man assault squad or a five man terminator assault squad. I generally use the later alot more since my librarian is in terminator armour, and lets face it, thunder hammers and storm shields are just too cool :). Mind you without more points to splash out on a landraider sometimes it can be difficult delivering those terminators into combat, deepstriking works but its often too easy for them to be dodged.

[Tynskel]

Vortex of Doom is hard to use unless the Librarian is on a Bike. A Heavy 1, Blast that is 12" is difficult to get into position and not get charged in the process.

Instead of upgrading to an Epistolary, I would invest in a bike and a combi-plasma. You can still attach to squads, and when you need to, zip up and pop off the Vortex of Doom. If you are using 'Gate of Infinity' (although, you might want to invest in a different power) you can shoot the combi-plasma. This is all for the same price as the Epistolary.



As a side note: I am not a fan of repeat squads. As a competitor, it is easier to plan against a repeat build army. You know what the tactics are, and you counter them appropriately. By having a variety of different units (and equipment) you are forcing your opponent to try to guess how your army functions.

The most common repeat build army I see is when Pedro Kantor comes outta the box. I see lists just spam the same unit: Tac Squad A B C D, and then throw in Sternguard (always in a stupid pod) A B C. The army is easy to destroy, which should never be the case for Space Marines.

[Mobious]

I think the list is pretty solid as it stands, but your plans for the future look shaky. Here is what I would suggest at 1500.

Pedro Kantor @ 175
Librarian @ 100
(Nullzone & Gate of Infinity)

Tactical Squad @ 205
(Rhino;Multi-Melta & Flamer)
Tactical Squad @ 205
(Rhino;Multi-Melta & Flamer)
Tactical Squad @ 175
(Razorback; Las & TL Plas; Combi-Flamer)
Tactical Squad @ 175
(Razorback; Las & TL Plas; Combi-Flamer)

Land Speeder @ 90
(Typhoon Missile Launcher; Heavy Bolter)

Dreadnought @ 105
(Multi-Melta; CCW)
Dreadnought @ 105
(Multi-Melta; CCW)

Predator @ 85
(Auto-cannon; Heavy Bolters)
Predator @ 85
(Auto-cannon; Heavy Bolters)

I think you are hampering yourself with Kantor because you lose Combat Tactics and you are playing at such low point levels. But you can still put out a good force like this. You move the Rhinos/Razorbacks into midfield and accompany then with the Dreads. And then you have long range support from the speeder and Predators.

Never put power fists in Tactical Squads, you are better served leaving the CC to the Dreads. Taking Kantor might want to make you take the Fists but they are too expensive, and I personally rather have 4 S:10 Fist attacks on a Dread.

Devastators are too expensive and fragile for what they do. For many less points you get a Typhoon Speeder, which IMO is much much better. I don't know, take my advice for what you will but SM characters do not impress me in the least at 1500.