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Tynskel
03-03-2010, 06:44 PM
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=108&enmi=Deathwatch

w00t!

Force21
03-03-2010, 08:18 PM
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=108&enmi=Deathwatch

w00t!


I believe sir....that w00t is a UNDERSTATEMENT.






Insanely awesometastical greatness since sliced bread!


I think this is a better statement.

Cryl
03-04-2010, 07:10 AM
yeah this will be awesome for no other reason than the crazy amount of background information about the Deathwatch and Ordo Xenos that will be there... I suppose the game might not be bad either :p

Duke
03-04-2010, 09:50 AM
This game will be more than just good... I can't wait for it! I love Fantasy Roleplay and Im very happy they found a way to have a fluffy "kill-team," of marines with reasons to play different 'classes."

Very very excited about this one. I wonder if being from different chapters will give you different bonuses.

i.e.
Blood Angels: Assault Bonuses
Ultras: Tactical squad bonuses

Etc.

Aenir
03-04-2010, 11:20 AM
Im gonna be a Dark Angel Apothecary :D (perhaps in a dreadnought) hehehe :D

Melissia
03-04-2010, 12:52 PM
Meh, I really can't see what's good about it. Marines do not lend themselves to good roleplay. They just drop in, kill everything that doesn't praise the Emperor (and some things that do), and go on to the next place for killing everything. Just hack'n'slash, and if you want that you can go play dawn of war or the upcoming space marine game...

Madness
03-04-2010, 03:01 PM
Pen and Paper hack and slash can still provide easy lowbrow fun. If the players are skilled, it can be even raised to a decent RPG level.

Personally I'd love to have more detailed info, I just hope it's fluffy like Rogue Trader and not a compilation of made-up-stuff like Dark Heresy.

zenjah
03-05-2010, 12:03 PM
Meh, I really can't see what's good about it. Marines do not lend themselves to good roleplay. They just drop in, kill everything that doesn't praise the Emperor (and some things that do), and go on to the next place for killing everything. Just hack'n'slash, and if you want that you can go play dawn of war or the upcoming space marine game...

I'm sure someone can come up with a fun way to roleplay space marines. It might take some imagination though.

AdamHarry
03-05-2010, 12:11 PM
Meh, I really can't see what's good about it. Warriors/Barbarians/Fighters/Wardens/[insert other classes from dnd] do not lend themselves to good roleplay. They just drop in, kill everything that doesn't praise the Emperor (and some things that do), and go on to the next place for killing everything. Just hack'n'slash, and if you want that you can go play dawn of war or the upcoming space marine game...

Oh wait, I think good role playing depends on the player and not the character...hmm...

AdamHarry
03-05-2010, 12:14 PM
Personally I am looking forward to this release. More insight on Deathwatch Kill teams? Yes please! I'm also interested in reading how FFG plans out the mechanics of playing one of the Emperor's Finest. The game mechanics from the previous two games we're fun, so i hope they continue the trend.

Melissia
03-05-2010, 12:25 PM
Oh wait, I think good role playing depends on the player and not the character...hmm...On average, Space Marines have less personality than the generic DnD barbarian. Also, DnD involves SOCIAL SITUATIONS as well as fighting. Indeed, part of the challenge and fun of roleplaying a barbarian was exactly that-- trying to have your barbarian deal with social situations which he/she was decidedly not kitted out for. I had an amusing halfling barbarian whom used two-handed axe in 3.5th edition (as in, an axe that would have been two-handed to a half-orc), so I would know :P

Space Marines do not participate in social situations. They drop down, kill everything, and then move on. Deathwatch fit this descriptor even moreso.

AdamHarry
03-05-2010, 12:57 PM
Right cause when you mix different chapters of marines with different mind sets and tactics they are just gonna follow along and not have opinions or theories on how do deal with situations.

Also, these aren't average marines, these are the best of the best sent to the deathwatch to take on elite missions and share combat training and tactics with other like minded battle brothers.

The player determines the background and the attitutes of the character they are going to play. With a little bit of effort a character can actually have a personallity...no matter what class/game/system you're playing.

Or you can throw up your blinders just because it's another release highlighting marines and not sisters.

zenjah
03-05-2010, 01:10 PM
Space Marines do not participate in social situations. They drop down, kill everything, and then move on. Deathwatch fit this descriptor even moreso.

That is a pretty limiting and unimaginative view of the wide range of possibilities in the 40k universe.

There are plenty of examples in the fluff where Space Marines (or any other soldiers, such as a Guardsmen or Battle-Nuns) transcend that stereotype.

They can actually talk to people, experience conflicted motivations, confront challenges they can't just shoot through, and all the rest of the full range of what a player might like to role-play. It would fit in fine with how exceptional or unusual Space Marines are often represented in the novels.

Melissia
03-05-2010, 01:34 PM
Space Marines are stated to pretty much always be training or killing, or moving somewher to kill something (during which time they are usually training). Basically, Space Marines are like the Saiyans of the 40k universe :P

Though the wolves at least throw parties.

zenjah
03-05-2010, 01:55 PM
That probably holds true for most Space Marines. But not all. What is stated clearly in one place is often contradicted in another.

Have you read any Black Library novels? There are plenty of stories where marines break the mold, either by actually having personalities, by conversing with non-marines, by going off on solo missions, etc.

Player characters in most role-playing games take on the role of exceptional individuals. While most people in the imaginary universe lead predictable and boring lives, the players' characters defy the stereotypes.

There is plenty of room in the 40k universe for exceptions to the "rules."

It is clearly not your cup of tea, but many other people might like to try role-playing a Deathwatch Space Marine.

Melissia
03-05-2010, 02:00 PM
Perhaps so, but even still I cannot shirk the feeling that this game will simply not have as much depth as, say, WFRP second edition, or Dark Heresy, or Inquisitor, simply by the nature of its setting and its player characters.

Nabterayl
03-05-2010, 02:13 PM
Depends on how they decide to depict the Deathwatch, I think, which is perhaps one of the reasons they went that route. The Deathwatch - not the Ordo Xenos - is supposed to have bases all around the frontiers of the Imperium, keeping an eye on xenos. That's a pretty weird operational disposition for space marines, and I think lends itself more toward interesting roleplaying situations than not.

As for personality, Mel, I sometimes think you internalize too much of your hatred of "marinewank." Yes, there are people who write marines as personality-less killing machines, but surely those people are the clueless ones. Marines are people, who gave up all hope of a normal life at an age when they were far too young to know what they were doing, and serve in the most miserable of warzones with nothing for comfort but their comrades in arms and faith in their way of life - not even, for most of them, the solace of a god. They feel, they fear (yes, there are writers who take "and they shall know no fear" literally, but I think it's pretty obvious those people are wrong), they wish, they hope, they have regrets.

The trouble with space marines in a roleplaying context, I think, is not that they can't have interesting personalities, and more that they have a very particular code of honor. It's not the problem of having a barbarian in your party, but the problem of having a paladin (or, for that matter, an Adepta Sororitas). The obvious way to solve that is to not mix space marines into a party that really ought to have the marine tearing his party members apart, which ... sounds like is exactly what this is.

Melissia
03-05-2010, 02:34 PM
The Adepta Sororitas in Dark Heresy are actually a restricted class, stated to be chosen only with permission from the GM and with a description of their system of honor, faith, and religion. It's the most restrictive class of Dark Heresy, and despite my fandom of the Sisterhood honestly it's my least favorite (although I do like the Witch-Sight ability added in the Radical's Handbook, leaves a very nice opportunity for roleplay) of all of the various dark heresy classes-- even Guardsman and Assassin. And, to me, Marines are more restricted than the Sisterhood, because the Sisters at least are fully human, having led fully human lives amongst human society. Especially the non-militan Sisters such as the Hospitalier or Famulus... the Sisters Militant don't really fit that well in comparison...

Nabterayl
03-05-2010, 03:13 PM
Exactly - if you're going to have space marines, from a party dynamic standpoint, you really shouldn't have them in just any old party. They'd really only work in very specific kinds of parties, and probably they'd work best in all-marine parties ... which is why I think it makes sense for FFG to handle them in their own supplement. It very well might not be a party dynamic that appeals to everybody (lots of people don't want to play all rogue parties, or all paladin parties, either), but if it's going to be done, I think this is the way to do it.

Madness
03-05-2010, 06:22 PM
Marines are, for the lack of a better word, alien.
Now, I know that you probably shouted "HERESY" at the top of your lungs, but the degree of detachment from humanity that is imposed on a marine is no lesser than what an Eldar or an Ork would have.

In other words, Marines are as oblivious to what "normal" humans feel as much as xenos are. Not just that, it works both ways. A normal human would never be able to understand what triggers sadness or joy in an astartes.

So that's an angle, actually a RICH angle you can work from.

Other angles: Marines stereotypically underestimate other humans, whenever a human actually does something good (or even just decent) they might be surprised.
Variations:
"heck, if you only were 14 I'd propose you as a scout"
"I'm a Blood Angel and you're a pretty amazing artisan, I totally dig your art"
"I'm a Space Wolf, yay, party"
"I'm a Mentor Legion marine, I'm totally the exception to the rule"
"I'm a strategy nerd marine, and you actually came up with a good idea I wasn't able to, wow, best friends forever?"
"Nice, you can handle your sword decently for a sack of weak meat Mr.Cain, I might want to spar with you sometimes, of course I'll use a foam sword and you will use your master crafter power sword"
"Librarian joins the Rogue Trader book club and they discuss a new heretic tome every week with humans and a disguised eldar farseer"

Marines don't just go around and kill stuff, I mean yes, as an organization, they do, but in order to do that, individual marines need to attend to more specific and in-depth tasks, such as research, interrogation, torture and sometimes even (GASP) socializing and/or networking!
Of course they will still behave like arrogant bags of d., but they can't ALWAYS strongarm their way into stuff, sometimes even marines have to take the political route.

I think they did a good job picking Deathwatch, since that as Ordo Xenos attachee, they will HAVE to interact with non astartes or even just astartes from different chapters, and that provides enough variation for a decent player to have a good session.

Melissia
03-05-2010, 06:24 PM
The idea of a Marine attending a gala ball is almost hilarious enough for me mto buy into it.

Madness
03-05-2010, 06:34 PM
See previous post for hooks, BA marine examining the architecture and the handicraft of the stuff present, might even end up interacting with a fellow art enthusiast (can be extended to any chapter, BA are just more likely), said Marine might not actually have a choice whether to attend or not, and since he might need something from another attendant, he might just have to play it cool.

Think of it as a battlefield strategic operation. A Marine would.

Melissia
03-05-2010, 06:40 PM
Excuse me. Space Wolves at a formal ball.

*bursts into laughter*

I might have to get this just to do that >.>

Madness
03-05-2010, 06:47 PM
Why not? I mean isn't that what RPGs are good for? Making us live situations that are otherwise impossible?

"Aye fine lass, do I know you? No? So you never went hunting Leviathawhales on Fenris? I might have mistaken you for someone else then."

AdamHarry
03-05-2010, 07:27 PM
Don't neglect the "warp" angle either.
Marines get barraged by the chaos gods in hope that one day they will falter and turn to chaos. Just like Rogue Inquisitors, Rogue Marines happen to, we just call them Chaos Marines.

Marines live until they die a violent death. The concept of being hundreds of years old is daunting, much less thousands of years old. Couple that with the wierd way warp travel affects time/space you've got lots of room to play with how time messes with a marine's head. The inner conflict itself is enough to cause marines to go off the deep end, eventually.

What Happens when that one marine goes a little too far and now squad-mates hafta reign him in or take him out? Maybe they agree with the rogue marines actions and want to join him.

There are lots of Story elements to work with and other angles to consider. It's not easy being gre...I mean a marine. :)

Nabterayl
03-05-2010, 07:31 PM
The existence of Chaos marines and renegades is ample proof, to me, that space marines are people with feelings, hopes, and dreams.