PDA

View Full Version : Kill Points Questions



Denzark
08-05-2009, 02:22 AM
Hello chaps

Please just confirm for me with Kill Points-

I understand 'kill (100% of) a squad get a kill point'.
I understand 'if it is a character and squad/retinue get 2 kill points'.

However, what about kill points for vehicles - the book sometimes uses the terms units as interchangeable ie 10 CSM are a unit, 1 defiler is a unit etc.

Where does squadrons fit in?

And what about dedicated transports purchased for a unit - when I destroy a drop pod do I get a kill point?

Why the hell is there not a kill point table like the old VP tables???

Cheers

Dingareth
08-05-2009, 05:39 AM
Dingareth's Formula to Understanding Kill Points:

Is it a unit on it's own?

Yes: It's a Kill Point
No: It's not a Kill Point

Is a Drop Pod a whole unit to itself?
Yes: It's a Kill Point

Is a squadron of two Leman Russes a whole unit to itself?
Yes: It's a Kill Point

Is a single Leman Russ out of two a whole unit to itself?
No: It's not a Kill Point

Abominable Plague Marine
08-05-2009, 05:44 AM
Why the hell is there not a kill point table like the old VP tables???

I agree!

Ok, dedicated transports are worth 1 KP. Vehicle squadrons are worth 1 KP. Page 3 under Units pretty well covers it. As for vehicle squadrons, it says they follow all the normal rules for units with the following exceptions pg 64.

Hope that helps mate.

MoeDakka
08-05-2009, 11:20 AM
I think the rules for vehicle squadrons need to be adjusted with the advent of the Leman Russ Squadron.

I now have to kill (potentially) 3 AV 14 tanks to get the same number of kill points as a rhino?

I propose either:
1. Kill the whole squadron as usual, but the KPs are 1 per vehicle in the squadron
2. Don't have to kill the whole squadron but 1 KP is earned per member killed

I ran into this at 'Ard Boyz this year when my opponent ran 9 Lemans. I killed 5 of them, but eliminated no full squadrons. So KP = 0. Tell me that isn't broken.

Jwolf
08-05-2009, 12:23 PM
That isn't broken. I have to kill 10 2+/3++ Terminators to get that KP, too.

Nabterayl
08-05-2009, 12:41 PM
And the Russes are easier to kill in squadrons.

Dingareth
08-05-2009, 12:48 PM
And it also limits the amount of your units getting hit. I'd much rather face 9 Russes in the form of 3 units than I would 9 Russes as 9 different unit. You should have killed his, what maybe 1000 points of troops considering it was Ard Boyz.

MoeDakka
08-05-2009, 01:36 PM
This is exactly why I liked the Victory Point system over the Kill Point system. It was fair, and BTW, Fantasy still uses it.

crazyredpraetorian
08-05-2009, 03:32 PM
I think the rules for vehicle squadrons need to be adjusted with the advent of the Leman Russ Squadron.

I now have to kill (potentially) 3 AV 14 tanks to get the same number of kill points as a rhino?

I propose either:
1. Kill the whole squadron as usual, but the KPs are 1 per vehicle in the squadron
2. Don't have to kill the whole squadron but 1 KP is earned per member killed

I ran into this at 'Ard Boyz this year when my opponent ran 9 Lemans. I killed 5 of them, but eliminated no full squadrons. So KP = 0. Tell me that isn't broken.


It's not broken. IG already have an abundance of kill points. I played a game Saturday and by turn 3 my opponent had enough kill points to win. The only way I could win was to kill his whole army, and that is what I did......barely(bottom of turn 6 last shot). There was no way I could've made it a draw. It was kill everything or lose.

Denzark
08-05-2009, 04:12 PM
thanks for the answers guys...

StrikerFox
08-06-2009, 06:20 AM
okay wait.. i thought even with squadrons they still count as individual KP? (since even a dedicated transport and its squad its bought for) count as 2..?

DaRaKur
08-06-2009, 07:27 AM
I think the Kill point system is way better than the old VP. We played a tournament a couple of weekend s ago where they reintroduced VPs for some of the games and kept the others as per the 5h ed missions. The VP games just felt broken.

Kill points are part of the new system and you have to balance them with army design and tactics on the battle field. Yes 9 Russes are hard, so focus on 1 squadron at a time. There are plenty more kill points in the rest of the IG army.

Dingareth
08-06-2009, 08:00 AM
okay wait.. i thought even with squadrons they still count as individual KP? (since even a dedicated transport and its squad its bought for) count as 2..?

Nope, no differnt than 10 guys counting as one Kill Point. They have to maintian coherency and fire at the same target just like a normal unit.

PinoyC
09-01-2009, 01:16 PM
It really isnt that hard to kill a squad of Russ'...for any OBEL/Outflankers w/ anti-armor you hit one, you basically hit em all...and remember that immobilized will destroy a squadrons vehicle. I've definitely OBELed behind them w/ MGs, PPs, and MBs to wipe a squad...same thing w/ outflanking vets w/ MG's

Feral
09-01-2009, 01:38 PM
But what about Tau ships with gun drones? If the vehicle is destroyed prior to deploying drones is it one kill point and then three after?

Culven
09-01-2009, 02:48 PM
Gun Drones on a Vehicle can operate as a separate unit and will count as an additional Kill Point regardless of whether they were destroyed with the Vehicle or after detatching.

Timbo
09-01-2009, 02:54 PM
Yikes, so fire warriors in a devilfish = 3kp? Remind me not to play kill point missions with Tao too often. I agree about the Russes though. Putting them in squadrons makes them far easier to kill. Unless you're really strapped for heavy support slots it should be avoided at all costs.

AshHammer
09-01-2009, 03:21 PM
I'd rather not have transports be a Kill Point. I play against a Dark Eldar player in our group. Most KP games, all I have to do is shoot down all of his AV10 transports and have one Space Marine left alive to win a game. Its kind of silly that he can do 1734 points worth of damage to me, but I only have to waste about 500 points of soft sides to win.
Still, he more than makes up for it in a take and hold type mission.

Culven
09-01-2009, 03:33 PM
Yikes, so fire warriors in a devilfish = 3kp?
Yep, but a skilled Tau player can minimize the number of KPs that they let their opponent have.

I'd rather not have transports be a Kill Point. I play against a Dark Eldar player in our group. Most KP games, all I have to do is shoot down all of his AV10 transports and have one Space Marine left alive to win a game. Its kind of silly that he can do 1734 points worth of damage to me, but I only have to waste about 500 points of soft sides to win.
Still, he more than makes up for it in a take and hold type mission.
Which kind of illustrates why we have take-and-hold missions as well as Kill Point. An army optimized for one will typically have trouble with the other. This is supposed to lead to balanced armies when players don't know which mission type will be used.

terricon4
09-01-2009, 09:47 PM
A unit of vehicles should all be only one kill point, as they are after all a unit, not three separate vehicles with FOC areas. And transports are probably not kill points but this area has been a place of many arguments that I cannot simply end, hopefully GW will see this forum and release a faq for it.

SeattleDV8
09-02-2009, 02:49 AM
They don't need a FAQ for transports and kill points.
Read BRB pg. 92 Multiple unit choices.
It is very clear. Tranports are kill points.