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Foosh
03-09-2010, 10:27 PM
This is my first post on the site, but feel free to give any and all critisim and ideas.

HQ:
Shas'o - Fusion blaster, plasma rifle, Iridium Armour, Stim Injector, shield drone x2
(192)

Troops:
19 Kroot - 1 with shaper upgrade
(172)

12 Fire Warriors - Shas'ui and bonding knife. With Devilfish transport with the following, smart missle system, disruption pod, target lock, targetting array.
(250)

12 Fire Warriors - Shas'ui and bonding knife. With Devilfish transport with the following, smart missle system, disruption pod, target lock, targetting array.
(250)

12 Fire Warriors - Shas'ui and bonding knife. With Devilfish transport with the following, smart missle system, disruption pod, target lock, targetting array.
(250)

Fast:
2 Piranas - Fusion blaster, target lock, and targeting array
(150)

2 Piranas - Fusion blaster, target lock, and targeting array
(150)

Heavy:
3 Broadsides - leader/Shas'vre w/ shield drone x2, twin linked plasma rifle, targeting array, and target lock. Other two suites with targeting array and twin linked plasma rifles.
(315)

Hammerhead - Ion cannon, disruption pod, multitracker, target lock
(135)

Hammerhead - Ion cannon, disruption pod, multitracker, target lock
(135)

Total: 1999



The idea is a remotely fast Tau mech list that provides enough troops to hold objectives and enough firepower to take out heavy armour. I have played 90% of my games against Dark Eldar so have slightly adhered to their tactics of strike hard at a vulnerable point, which is why I like the mobility.
I only wonder if I should combine both the Pirana squads so as not to have more kill points available, but then again having a vehicle that can zip 24'' to a capture point is very helpful.

Let me know your thoughts.

karandras
03-10-2010, 01:55 PM
I like the list. Looks very balanced. Personally, I prefer missle pods on my broadside suits due to their higher strength and more importantly, increaded range. I would keep the Pirhanas as two squadrons as it provides greater flexibility. Is the Shas'o a kamikaze deep striker? Or do you keep him back with the broadsides? If you keep him back in a supporting role, I would swap the melta out for missle pod.

gcsmith
03-10-2010, 02:20 PM
The broadsides can only have Sms which is weaker and same range

Foosh
03-10-2010, 03:00 PM
I normally have my broadsides near an objective, which as it would seem is also normally where my kroot are camped on too. The idea with the plasma rifles is that even if I have things like Abaddon or a blood thirster basically even most of the hardest things to kill have troubles with passing multiple invul saves. The hope is that I can wear down a group with enough shots they instant die from or wither them down on wounds and then Kroot join in the fun, depending on the situation either shooting or hand to hand and I just hope for having enough dice to roll on my side.
I do normally keep my Shas'o near my broadsides, unless it would be more advantageous to have him roam around and just try and pop rhinos or other things that get too near.
As to deepstriking I hate it, if I am going to spend almost 200 points on a model I need it on the table and need to know I am going to have him when I need him. So 99% of the time he starts on the table. As much as I like the range of the missle pods, I still prefer to have that melta when it comes down to nasty things with 2+ saves that get too close.

I will also keep the pirana squads seperate, like you said the flexability factor plays a huge role in my list and this certains adds to it.

Chumbalaya
03-10-2010, 04:03 PM
Where are the Crisis suits?!

FoF is so 4th edtion. Fire Warriors are too pricey and don't have enough firepower to tango with the current crop of mech lists.

Ditch all but 1 unit of FW, add 9 Fire Knives, split those kroot up and add Pathfinders.

karandras
03-10-2010, 06:06 PM
I had the Smart Missle System mixed up with Missle Pods. If the range is equal, I would keep the Plasma Rifles.

I have only run my Tau once and just picked them up this year, so not much generalship experience with them. Sorry for the mix up. Your reasoning seems sound on everything, but if you always start your Shas'o on the table I would probably try and add a couple crisis suits to him as a retinue in exchange for some of the fire warriors. Especially with all of your warriors flying around in transports.

Foosh
03-10-2010, 07:44 PM
Where are the Crisis suits?!

FoF is so 4th edtion. Fire Warriors are too pricey and don't have enough firepower to tango with the current crop of mech lists.

Ditch all but 1 unit of FW, add 9 Fire Knives, split those kroot up and add Pathfinders.

I am sorry but I am going to have to disagree with a list like that. Yeah it is nice ot have crisis suits, but their lack of REAL mobility and how easily they succomb to instant death from taking a strength 8 hit I just find that they have NEVER earned their points back for me.
Plus only 2 troop choices? The vast majority of games are run on capture points, with having my 4 troop choices plus many vehilces I am able to not only capture objectives but with vehicles that are made harder to destroy and moving 12'' or 24'' with the Piranas you provide a serious threat to just about anywhere on the table.
As to pathfinders I have found it is not extremely effective only running one eight man unit of them, and seldom do they earn their points back either.

The firewarriors arent means to take out mech, unless i can out manouvre and get rear armour I would take a chance at it, but in the rest of the list I have other options to pop open the candy that is transports or heavier vehicles so that my fire warriors may prey upon infantry or soldier units.

It seems to me in fifth edition it is about troop choices and mobility to make the key elements of an army.

Chumbalaya
03-10-2010, 07:56 PM
I am sorry but I am going to have to disagree with a list like that. Yeah it is nice ot have crisis suits, but their lack of REAL mobility and how easily they succomb to instant death from taking a strength 8 hit I just find that they have NEVER earned their points back for me.
Plus only 2 troop choices? The vast majority of games are run on capture points, with having my 4 troop choices plus many vehilces I am able to not only capture objectives but with vehicles that are made harder to destroy and moving 12'' or 24'' with the Piranas you provide a serious threat to just about anywhere on the table.

No. Crisis Suits make Tau armies. You can't fit that kind of firepower anywhere else in the list. MP and PR suits dish out a lot of shots at range and even more up close, shots that can kill infantry, MCs and light armor. Crisis suits are highly mobile, and if S8 is a concern just stick them in cover or behind something, all you need is to have a little of the model obscured.

3 Troops, not 2. Objective missions are important, but spamming subpar Troops isn't going to help any. You need to kill enemy Troops and stop his units from killing yours. FW can't do that. Stick kroot out front to block for you, hold FW in reserves, and jump into a fish and snag an objective. You don't have to hold every objective, just 1 more than your opponent.


As to pathfinders I have found it is not extremely effective only running one eight man unit of them, and seldom do they earn their points back either.

Earning points back is a logical fallacy that has no place in 5th ed. Points mean nothing, it's about the mission. Pathfinders don't kill anything, they use markerlights to help other units kill much more effectively. There's a world of difference between a normal railgun sub into a unit in cover and said unit without cover, same for Crisis suits rapid firing plasma at BS5 with no cover for their targets. Force multiplier extraordinaire.


The firewarriors arent means to take out mech, unless i can out manouvre and get rear armour I would take a chance at it, but in the rest of the list I have other options to pop open the candy that is transports or heavier vehicles so that my fire warriors may prey upon infantry or soldier units.

How are you taking out mech? 3 railguns with 1 target lock will pop at most 2 vehicles. Guard can field 10+ easily. Ion Cannons aren't strong enough, Piranhas are too fragile, and 1 suit isn't going to make it. You need all that S7 from the Crisis suits and 2 more railgun from hammerheads to have a chance against mech armies.


It seems to me in fifth edition it is about troop choices and mobility to make the key elements of an army.

See above, you need to be able to take objectives, destroy enemy Troops and protect your own. Spamming crap Troops doesn't change the fact that they're crap, it just means you have more crap.

Shas'O D'Narb
03-10-2010, 08:46 PM
On paper, I can see why Foosh might defend his posted list. In theory, there's plenty of S4-5 from the Kroot and Fire Warriors, there's a bit of S7 from the Ionheads, and there's plenty of heavy-killers in the form of Piranhas and Broadsides. On the surface, the list seems to combine mobility, strength and quantity of firepower, and resilience...

MOBILITY: Your mobility is quite nice in this list, actually. The Devilfish, because of the dpod and front AV12 is usually pretty resilient. *IF* you're 100% set on running this type of list (for what it's worth, I agree with Chumba's counterpoints) then I recommend taking the SMS off. Moving at cruising speed, particuarly when going for the objectives, will allow you to fire 5 shots, 2 of which are pinning. Using the SMS only gives you 4 shots at cruising speed. Moreover, using Gun Drones also gives you 3 units that can contest that objective. Since, up close like that, none of the Devilfish / Warriors / Drones are able to hold objectives, having 3 units means that it will give you a better chance to do so overall.

You could probably afford to replace one Piranha target lock with a dpod, for what it's worth.

FIREPOWER, STRENGTH: The Piranha fusions will scare people, so that's good. The Broadside Battery is wonderful as well, although twin plasma is wasted points. Same with the Shas'Vre too. Plus, I'd rather have them stabilized so they can shoot on Turn 1 Dawn of War, but to each their own. For your Hammerheads, I love the ion cannon. However, I love the railgun infinitely more for its versatility.

Anyway, Hammerheads want railguns. Don't demote your pilots and shame them for eternity by equipping ion cannons. Give the mid-strength duties to XV8s.

FIREPOWER, QUANTITY: Certainly, there's lots of total possible shots available in this army. I think the problem is that there's a huge deficit of decisive firepower. When figuring out the volume of fire for an army, disregard S3-5. Having said that, you have very little S6-7. What that means is you will have very little firepower recourse to emergency situations, or preventing them from happening in the first place.

As Tau, I don't care what you put on your XV8s' 2nd hardpoint... but unless you definitely have something in mind for the unit, then put missile pods on their first one. If you don't have XV8s with MPs, then you deprive yourself of one of the things Tau are good at: smacking around light armour and high toughness targets.

RESILIENCE: If you're worried about XV8 resiliency, throw a couple drones on a squad. I truly think you're doing yourself a disservice as a 40K player but not running suits. Eventually, you'll find that you're not able to compete against - much less defeat - some of the better players with different armies. All those Kroot and Fire Warriors will be found completely lacking against real competition, as will those 4 Piranha, leaving you with very little left on the table. In the end, you will be hoping against hope for a Turn 5 Draw. This won't happen very often. Then, sadly, you'll find yourself reliant on anti-depressants, walking the streets alone at night, screaming across the street to terrified strangers about the Greater Good, wishing you had listened to that post on BoLS and added Crisis Suits to your list. Or not. But if it happens, you can't say I didn't warn you.

Foosh
03-10-2010, 10:20 PM
I see both of your points now, or rather one generalized point.
I am willing to drop one of the firewarrior squads w/ transport for 3 crisis suits w/ twin linked missle pods and targeting arrays, as well as 2 shield drones.

This will leave me at a total of 1953 points.

I really like the Piranas and dont want to ditch them I am not going to bother with disruption pods on them though because I mainly move them the 24'' and get the save then the next turn they are in range of blowing stuff up easily plus they are normally hiding behind something at that point.

As much as I love a hammerhead with a rail gun, i HATE when I roll a 2 or a 1 and now a 170 point vehicle is worthless, hence I prefer the broadsides.
As for the pinning gun drones the majority of the players that will be there this saturday run Khorne/Nurgle CSM so fearless makes it a little pointless so I might as well max firepower.

But yall have sold me on having 6 shots twin linked 36'' range strength 7 missles :)

The unfortunate truth is I only have 5 Crisis suits.

Shas'O D'Narb
03-10-2010, 11:41 PM
As much as I love a hammerhead with a rail gun, i HATE when I roll a 2 or a 1 and now a 170 point vehicle is worthless, hence I prefer the broadsides.
I agree completely; I don't take a Railhead for the solid slug, though it's certainly available to help out the Broadsides. I take the railgun for the submunition.

P.S. Your call @ Piranhas & disruption pods... but at least, there's no point in taking 2 target locks.

Nabterayl
03-10-2010, 11:59 PM
P.S. Your call @ Piranhas & disruption pods... but at least, there's no point in taking 2 target locks.
Well, there's some point. Gun drones fire as part of the vehicle they're attached to, which means without a target lock they have to fire at the same target as the fusion blaster.

I do note though, Foosh, that a single disruption pod is good enough to give both vehicles in a two-vehicle unit a 4+ cover save, subject to the normal disruption pod rules (i.e., it wouldn't work if the shooter was inside the d-pod's minimum range). Something to consider, as the Flat-Out-and-shoot-next-turn strategy still leaves you vulnerable every other turn.

Foosh
03-11-2010, 08:22 AM
Ok made the appropriate changes to the Piranas, dropped one target lock from each and added one dpod to each.
Also, taking advantage of all the crisis suits I own I gave the Shas'o a body guard, with drone controller (2x shield drones), twin linked missle pod, and targetting array. This should improve the survivability of the HQ unit as well as give me a little more 36'' punch. Also, had some spare points so I have the Shas'o a target lock.
However, in doing all this I had to drop my kroot from a swelling number of 20 down to 12. Hopefully they will still be as effective.

Chumbalaya
03-11-2010, 12:05 PM
Piranhas are solid blocking/distraction units, keep 'em.

Railguns are the way to go with Hammerheads, if only for the submunitions. If you run into problems missing with the solid shot, you should definitely look into Pathfinders, they make everything better.

blackarmchair
03-21-2010, 05:47 PM
I think someone mentioned this earlier but why no Crisis suits?!?

A good friend of mine plays Tau and the deadliest cheesiest most unfair units I've ever seen are twin Shas'o Teams with full bodyguard and 6 f'ing shield drones. They're expensive but they will NEVER die (unless you're silly enough to get them in close-combat but that's the entire Tau dex).

Seriously, 6 drones with 2+ or 3+ armor plus an invuln nothing has the firepower to take that out nor the staying power to deal with the sheer amount of firepower that the unit can put out.