Trying to finish my IG... would appreciate some advice.

[Kuhlbert]

I'm putting the finishing touches on a 2K IG force. But I'm trying to decide between some units...

What I have decided on:

2x Squadrons of 2x Sentinels w/ AC, and 1x HKM per squadron.
1x Squadron of 2x Medusas.
2x Independent LR Executioners with Plasma Sponsons.
2x Vets with 3x Melta and Chimeras.
1x Primaris Psyker.

Here are the three "options" I'm toying with for the rest:

1) All veteran/strong psyker

1x CCS w/ 4xPlasma, 1x Plasma Pistol, 1x Astropath.
2x Psyker Battle Squad (9 psykers) w/ Chimera.
2x Vets with 3x GL and AC.

2) Small Blob

1x CCS w/ 4xPlasma, 1x Astropath, Chimera.
1x Psyker Battle Squad (9 psykers) w/ Chimera.
1x Infantry Platoon:

1x PCS w/ 3x GL (or flamers).
1x Infantry Squad w/ GL, AC, Commissar w/ PW.
1x Infantry Squad w/ GL, AC.
1x Heavy Squad w/ 3x Mortar.
1x Special Squad w/ 3x Flamer (or GLs).
Sentinel squadrons loose HKMs.

3) Large Blob

1x CCS w/ 4xPlasma, 1x Astropath, Chimera.
1x Psyker Battle Squad (8 psykers) w/ Chimera.
1x Infantry Platoon:

1x PCS w/ 3x GL (or flamers).
1x Infantry Squad w/ GL, AC, Commissar w/ PW.
2x Infantry Squad w/ GL, AC.
1x Heavy Squad w/ 3x Mortar.
Sentinel squadrons loose HKMs.

So, my analysis:

Option 1 Pros:
Most BS 4.
Most Psykers.
Option 1 Cons:
Least number of heavy weapons (w/ Sentinels: 6 AC).
2x Psyker Squads may be "cheesy".
CCS on foot.

Option 2 Pros:
Most special weapons (12).
Blob/Tarpit/Bubble Wrap.
Mobile CCS.
Barrage battery.
Less "cheesy".
Option 2 Cons:
Blob may not be big enough
Less plasma (although the loss of the pistol may be unnoticed).
Less Sentinel alpha strike (loss of HKMs).
Less Psykers.

Option 3 Pros:
Most heavy weapons (w/ Sentinels: 7 AC, 3 Mortar).
Big Blob/Tarpit/Bubble Wrap.
Mobile CCS.
Barrage battery.
Less "cheesy" (but which is more/less, 2 or 3?).
Option 3 Cons:
Less plasma (although the loss of the pistol may be unnoticed).
Less Sentinel alpha strike (loss of HKMs).
Least Psykers.

So the question is - which way to go? Or do people have other suggestions?

A side question - which of the 5pt special weapons should I be going for: GL or Flamers? A mix? Or go whole in with one.

Thanks for any advice/insight you can offer.

[DoctorEvil]

Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of any of the three options (I don't like those damn unclean psykers in my army), but out of all the options I like Option #1 the least. "Least number of heavy weapons" & "CCS on foot" jump out at me as the drawbacks I'd rather not have in my IG army.

So that leaves Options #2 and #3.......not a huge difference between the two. From Option #2, I've played the Flamer SWS on foot quite often and it's hit or miss for me (prefer them riding in a Vendetta). So based on that and that alone I'd lean towards Option #3.

[Grubbslinger]

I like option two but I'm with DoctorEvil on the set up. I think you need more infantry or more mech. Right now, you only have 4 full sqauds of infantry and for guard those will be taken out pretty quickly. I would add at least one more squad to option 2. Maybe reduce the number of psykers.

[Kuhlbert]

I can tell neither of you like Psykers :)

The inclusion of psykers is purely a fluff-based one: My son and I often play in doubles tournaments, and some of these games are starting to enforce the allies matrix - so my Black Templars can't team up with his Chaos Space Marines :) So I picked Guard, so that I can play both loyalist and heretic, however things are needed. I'm making a "Tzeench" based force... so lots of Psykers :)

So I don't want to get rid of all my psykers; that makes option 3 the one with the most guys, unless I start getting rid of Sentinels/Lemans/Medusas... and I don't think I want to do that...

So in either case - what do I equip the PCS/SWS with? Flamers? GLs? GLs seem more useful overall - and I've got Hvy Flamers on all my vehicles, so I'm leaning that way...

[Lord Azaghul]

I run my standard guard squad with flamer vet w/melta bomb. For 60 points I've found it very useful.
For the PCS, I like 1-2 flamers and 1 melta just to cover all bases so to speak. GL are decent, but I usually only take then for fluff stuff - flamers seem to net a bigger bang for your nickle.

[Grubbslinger]

I can tell neither of you like Psykers :)

The inclusion of psykers is purely a fluff-based one: My son and I often play in doubles tournaments, and some of these games are starting to enforce the allies matrix - so my Black Templars can't team up with his Chaos Space Marines :) So I picked Guard, so that I can play both loyalist and heretic, however things are needed. I'm making a "Tzeench" based force... so lots of Psykers :)

So I don't want to get rid of all my psykers; that makes option 3 the one with the most guys, unless I start getting rid of Sentinels/Lemans/Medusas... and I don't think I want to do that...

So in either case - what do I equip the PCS/SWS with? Flamers? GLs? GLs seem more useful overall - and I've got Hvy Flamers on all my vehicles, so I'm leaning that way...
In that case, I still like Option two better then three. Adding in the that Special Weapons team can really help bring some more fire power to yoru table. But yeah I agree you don't want to lose any heavy support. Besides, Traiter guard would have probably had to kill most of their army who were dirty loyalist anyways. :)

[karandras]

I like options #1 and #3 better than #2. I am leaning towards option #1, as two Psyker Squads is just nasty and fits your Tzeentch theme. It also makes the army rather unique I think. That being said, I have found all Veteran armies much harder to win with due to the lack of HWS.

I would go with option #1, but adjust something in order to add a Chimera and Medic to your CCS. With all of that plasma and no medic, they are likely to wipe themselves out! HKM are a waste of points for IG.

I think I would go with option #1 with the following adjustment to free up points:
Drop Colonel's Plasma Pistol
Drop HKM from Sentinel Squadrons
Change Leman Russ Executioners to standard Battle Cannons, but keep Plasma Sponsons

I think that will give you enough points for the Chimera and possibly the medic... If you still are a little short, you could reduce the Psyker Squads to 8 models each...

I have also found Special Weapons Squads to be a waste. They are fine if you arm them with flamers as their is no roll to hit, but any other weapons options immediately make them cost more than they are worth. Just compare the cost of a SWS with 3 meltas to a unit of Veterans with 3 Meltas. There nearly the same cost!!! SWS just aren't worth it.

[Lord Azaghul]

I'm still not a huge fan of either list - but hey whatever you enjoy playing with your soon.

I have noticed (at least with my guard) that listed that contain both a small platoon and 1 vet squad (in a chimera) to quite well. The Platoon provides the bodies and a good deal of fire power and the vets, when kept in reserves can be very surgical and powerful. So when bumping up to 2k you should see a change in the way your list works!

One other thought - sentinals! Outflanking sentinals is squads of 2 are awesome. I've stopped taking my valkyrie, and just using 2-4 sentinals to cause disruption on the flanks.

[Kuhlbert]

Well, the list is 2K right now.

And yes, I like outflanking sentinels as well :) Thus the 2x2 squadrons and the astropath.

I have had a _lot_ of success with the Plasma Russes - I'm inclined to keep them. One thought is to get rid of one medusa - but the remaining medusa will get lit up big time, I was taking two because of that.

To squeeze in a chimera for the CCS using option #1, I'd most likely drop the plasma pistol, 2xHKMs, and lower the psyker squads to 8 men...then I just gotta find 5 pts :-P

[Kuhlbert]

I'm still not a huge fan of either list - but hey whatever you enjoy playing with your soon.

Can I ask, since you really didn't say, what you don't like about it? Not that I'll change - but I'm new enough to guard that I definitely want opinions.

I'm pretty committed to having the Primaris and one Psyker squad, for purely fluff reasons (above). And I have already built the Plasmacutioners, so they'd be hard to swap out ($$$)... but everything else is, in theory, changeable.

So what is it that bothers you about this list/options?

Thanks!

[Lord Azaghul]

Ah, sorry. I didn’t want to jump on the no-psyker band wagon. There are one of the few units I don’t plan on picking up for my IG eventually. I find Ratlings so very useful!

I guess its just your general build.
I find the platoon more effective when they are not blobbed – that way a small unt dies in CC (on your opponents turn) then you unleash fury with the rest of the platoon!

I do like that you’re taking mortars – they are one of the best HW teams. I would also recommend a squad of autocannons – very versitel

Russ’s I find that a standard battle tank and a demolisher with plasma cannons are two of the best options – don’t get me wrong executions are great, but I love the multi purpose of the other two, run indepently of course.

Squaded medusas – good.

CCS: while I do see the tempation to place plasma guns on them. I like to limit them to 1 plasma and 1 melta. I also take 2 CCS and I don’t place them in chimeras – often enough I have cover a-plenty – HOWEVER, the reason I take 2 CCS is because I often take 3 HW squads, mortars, AC, Lascannons. 1 CCS stays back with a master of ord, and gives orders to the HW teams, the 2nd moved forward – as needed with the 10 man squad – issuing orders!

If you’ll care to check my blog you’ll see my standard 1750 list.
In short: 2 CCS
2 Vet squads in Chimera
1 platoon 3 squads w/ flamers 3HW squads, mort, ac, LC
1 penal squad
2 Sentl Multlas/HF
2 Sent’ multlasx2 HKx2

5 Ratlings

1 Russ battle cannons LC
1 Demolisher w plasma sponsons
1 Baslisk

I’m not saying you should take exactly this list, but things that have worked very well for me are: not sqauding vehciles (except sentinals) not blobbing the platoon, taking mutliple HW squads and taking 2 CCS

[karandras]

I run Leman Russ with plasma sponsons over the "Plasmacutioners" for a few reasons. The points are lower, the large template is generally more forgiving with scatter, greater range, and most importantly Str.8 ordinance has the ability to threaten AV13 and AV14. "Plasmacutioners" are great against elite infantry, but fairly useless against AV13 and cannot hurt AV14 at all. It makes them too one-dimensional IMO.

The other Russ that I enjoy running is a Leman Russ Punisher with Pask. I add Hull Lascannon, HB Sponsons, and a Heavy Stubber. It comes in at a cool 275 points and is by far my most expensive unit. It is a fire magnet, so I often try and screen it with a Chimera and utilize cover. This tank can dish out 30 shots hitting on 3+. It absolutely shreads armoured squadrons and monsterous creatures with Pask's special Crack Shot rule. Most people prefer a hull HB, but I like the Lascannon as it gives me a str10 shot that hits on 3+ if I run into any AV14 units, making the unit less one-dimensional. Good Luck!