'Ard Boyz Imperial Guard

[Unholy_Martyr]

A friend of mine asked me to post his possible list for 'Ard Boyz up here since he doesn't have regular Internet access and he wanted some more input on his list. He owns pretty much everything the Imperial Guard can muster so even radical changes are possible. Here's the run down:

H.Q.

Company Command Squad
4x Melta, Astropath, Officer of the Fleet, Chimera: Multi-Laser, Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer -205

Troops

Infantry Platoon 1

Platoon Command Squad
Captain Al'Rahem, 4x Grenade Launchers, Chimera: Multi-Laser, Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer -175

Squad A
Grenade Launcher, Chimera: Multi-Laser, Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer -110

Squad B
Grenade Launcher, Chimera: Multi-Laser, Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer -110

Squad C
Grenade Launcher, Chimera: Multi-Laser, Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer -110

Infantry Platoon 2

Platoon Command Squad
Vox Caster, Autocannon -45

Squad A
Commissar, Autocannon, 2x Power Weapons, Vox Caster -120

Squad B
Autocannon, Power Weapon -70

Squad C
Autocannon, Power Weapon -70

Heavy Weapons Squad A
3x Lascannons -105

Heavy Weapons Squad B
3x Lascannons -105

Veteran Squad
3x Melta -100

Veteran Squad
3x Melta -100

Veteran Squad
3x Melta -100

Fast Attack

Vandetta -130

Vendetta -130

Valkyrie
Rocket Pods -130

Heavy Support

Hydra 2x -150

Medusa 2x
Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer -270

Manticore
Hull Mounted Heavy Flamer-160

Total: 2495

Al'rahem is pretty much a must for him as he has a soft spot for bringing on 4 Chimera's where his opponent least expects it (I completely abhor this tactic as it has handed me my *** on MULTIPLE occasions). The Veterans are a little iffy as there just seems to be WAY too much Melta action going on, then again, 9 Melta Guns can never hurt right? Well we'd appreciate any ideas or critiques, thanks in advance.

[Lord Azaghul]

I tried al harem is a couple of games, and it was odd. I would recommend bring a melta sw sqaud - he has the 'bring it down' order. I did find the 4 chimiras on one side of the table tend to trip over each other a bit, but my game was at 1750, and 2500 might be a bit more managable.

I would actually switch around your hw - stick the LC in the 10-man squads and take the AC in the HW squads. LC are too pricey to worry about insta-death.

Consider taking a 2nd HQ CCS, with all those troops and HW's 4+ orders a turn are very nice.

[joescalise]

I agree, I would get another HQ for the orders. I like all the veterans, but that is alot of points in Melta's. if your appoint does not have a lot of armour your points are going to be wasted. try some flamers in there also to take care of orks, nids and other big units.

[karandras]

I agree with Al'Rahim being a great addition to any IG list. It makes them far less static and A LOT more fun to play IMHO.

That being said, I would equip Al'Rahim's squad with either 3 Melta and 1 Flamer or 3 Plasma and a Medic. It makes them more expensive, but far more effective with his Bring it Down and Like the Wind orders.

I would change the Veteran Squads equipment to two with 2 Meltas and 1 Flamer and the other with 3 Plasma. With all of the Tyranid Monsters out there, this list is really short on Plasma weapons.

A second CCS with a Master of Ordinance and Standard Bearer would be a real boost to the gunline portion of the army.

I would drop the Voxes and add another Commisar to the 2nd Infantry Platoon and run them as a 15 and a 20 man Stubborn Blob Squad, each with 2 PW and 2 AC.

I think the Lascannons are okay the way they are. Just be sure to deploy them in cover. If your opponent wants to target them they will have a 4+ save and he will be neglecting the actually dangerous parts of your army!!!

The biggest problem with this list is the number of models in regards to the time limit of each round. I got stuck playing a slow playing Tyranid Swarm in the second round last year and it was a horrible experience. I alerted the TO that he was intentionally slow playing, but nothing was done. We got 2 1/2 turns in and I was denied my turn 3 as he went first. I was annihilating him and got stuck with a draw due to time expiring before my third movement phase.

As a tournament player, I can honestly say that this is my biggest problem with the current rise in the proverbial "standard sized game" at the moment. Points have gone up to 2000 in most venues and time has been reduced from a standard 2.5 hours to between 2 and 2.25 hours at most venues. I find myself really enjoying the game less as I stress out over getting myself and my opponent thru the turns. I often groan now when I see that my opponent has an army like Orks, IG, or Nids as it often (not always) means getting only 4, or if I'm lucky, 5 turns in.

[Unholy_Martyr]

Yeah, we play tested this list this weekend against a Tyranid 2500 point list and well...having the Melta was nice and the Heavy Support was beyond its weight in gold as it literally destroyed entire swarms per turn. Maybe replace the last Veterans Squad with two Special Weapons Squads with Flamers, works out to be the same points so that may be an option.

We may consider sacrificing one of the Melta Veteran squads for a Company Command Squad; however, the way the units are used as is leaves 1 Infantry blob of 30 men and the two Heavy Weapons Squads...would he really need a second Company Command Squad?

Switching around the Heavy Weapons Squads, yeah, after the experience of the most recent game he decided to make that change as well.

[Unholy_Martyr]

With respect to moving so many models, that is funny you should bring that up, the gunline portion of the Army actually never moved the entire game, granted this may not always be the case, but it is worth noting.

Not sure how you're working out the Commisars with the 15 and 20 man blob; however, the Voxes are really there for the Orders as for a total of 10 points as re-rolling failed orders is nice and useful.

With the changes in weapons, would you suggest dropping a Lascannon Team to afford all of the upgrades? Or take one of the Veteran squads and use their points for upgrades? I was thinking that this is going to drop down his scoring potential; however, I realized that as it stands right now he has 13 units that are capable of scoring...I think the Veterans can be replaced.

[Lord Azaghul]

The biggest problem with this list is the number of models in regards to the time limit of each round. I got stuck playing a slow playing Tyranid Swarm in the second round last year and it was a horrible experience. I alerted the TO that he was intentionally slow playing, but nothing was done. We got 2 1/2 turns in and I was denied my turn 3 as he went first. I was annihilating him and got stuck with a draw due to time expiring before my third movement phase.

As a tournament player, I can honestly say that this is my biggest problem with the current rise in the proverbial "standard sized game" at the moment. Points have gone up to 2000 in most venues and time has been reduced from a standard 2.5 hours to between 2 and 2.25 hours at most venues. I find myself really enjoying the game less as I stress out over getting myself and my opponent thru the turns. I often groan now when I see that my opponent has an army like Orks, IG, or Nids as it often (not always) means getting only 4, or if I'm lucky, 5 turns in.

Ding!! Ding!! Ding!!
I must completely agree. I don't really care for the leaf blower approach, but the time limits do really kill my army some times! I think that reason alone will keep me out of Ard Boyz, My army is very good at taking casualties and keep on holding, this results in a fantastic war of attrition that guard are great at, winning me a lot of games around turns 4 and 5. However the local tournies I seem to draw opponents who stand around and 'think' a lot, it really kills me because my first and 2nd moment/shooting phases are about half an hour long. That doesn't leave much time for turn 4+ in a 2 hour game limit.

[Unholy_Martyr]

I have to say I'm going to third this agreement. The only armies that really can pull off a 2500 point game realistically without being hindered by hesitant players and such are mainly Marine Equivalents. I feel like everyone else gets the short end of the stick because 2.5 hours just isn't going to cut it when you're dealing with 100+ models unless you have movement trays...even then, it is a logistical nightmare from the start.

Tournament times either need to increase with point level or there needs to be some way of striking a balance, otherwise, more people are going to capitalize on this stalling behavior.

[Tynskel]

Actually, my suggestion is to squeeze points and get some Plasma Rifles in Al'Reem's Squad. That's the only thing you lack. A Veteran Squad dumping some Meltas for Flamers (15 points), and dumping 3 Grenade Launchers should get you 2 Plasma Rifles. Not bad, I say!

[Tynskel]

I have to say I'm going to third this agreement. The only armies that really can pull off a 2500 point game realistically without being hindered by hesitant players and such are mainly Marine Equivalents. I feel like everyone else gets the short end of the stick because 2.5 hours just isn't going to cut it when you're dealing with 100+ models unless you have movement trays...even then, it is a logistical nightmare from the start.

Tournament times either need to increase with point level or there needs to be some way of striking a balance, otherwise, more people are going to capitalize on this stalling behavior.

I have been to all the 'Ard Boyz Tournaments. 100 Plus Guys is easy to deal with.

2.5 Hours is fine. Most games I have seen end within a half hour of the time limit.

The Question is not can you fight 100+ models... it is more that can you control your own 100+ models. Your Turns have to be timely- you can get ejected from the Tournament if you are not giving your opponent enough time. Doesn't matter if you have more guys- eating away into their time is a big 'No No' at 'Ard Boyz.

[Jwolf]

I think 2.5 hours is more than enough time for players who are familiar with their armies to finish a game between any two armies at 2500 points. And not nearly enough time for a guy who hasn't played with his list to finish, no matter the armies.