Thoughts on new Blood Bowl?

[odinsgrandson]

Ok, GW have announced that there will be a new Specialist Division (sometime in the future) and that Blood Bowl was specifically brought up as one of the returning games.

Blood Bowl is a great game, and I was pretty happy about the news.

But then, Blood Bowl hasn't come back yet. Did GW start announcing thing they'll be doing way in advance or something? Then, they had a job listing for the director who is going to be in charge of re-imagining these old games- and that makes me think they made the announcement before they even had a plan.

Well. OK, that's fine.

What are we hoping to see in a new Blood Bowl? Personally, if they just use the CRP rules and combine it with shiny new minis, I'm all for it.

And I hope they finally let the Slann be a completely official team.

[energongoodie]

I love the rules as they are.

I just want new minis! cause I love having things!

I would quite enjoy official multiplayer rules ( more than 2 players )

Maybe the board could flip over? One side a green pitch the other side a dungeon?

Bigger pitches with terrain like guildball?

will it be set in aos or WH ?

[Wolfshade]

The rules I am comfortable with, new minis especially amazons....

[ErgonomicCat]

It's officially announced now!

[odinsgrandson]

It looks like they're going to take all the way to 2017 to release anything new. I'm a little sad that we don't even know what quarter Blood Bowl might be released in (and it is possible that GW/Specialist Games aren't sure yet either).

I remember from talking to people at Privateer Press about how far ahead they work- basically, they want all of the rules to be in a finished form a year before release of the new book. The rest of that time is spent getting the art, sculpting, casting, and painting finished for the release.

It could be that the Specialist folks are taking the time and want to have a whole bunch of teams available shortly after release.

Of course, there's still a possibility that they're going to take that time to completely re-hash the rules. I honestly think they could make small changes that I'd be on board with. I really hope they don't try to re-invent Blood Bowl.

Then again, if it is awful, I'll still have my Icepelt rulebook.

[grimmas]

Well I'd rather they did it properly rather than just a rehash. I'd like to see a bit more longevity built into it this time round.

Although I've spent many an enjoyable hour playing Bloodbowl it just doesn't feel right. Its just not that Bloody. It's supposed to be carnage but it just isn't. It's not even that much more dangerous than an actual rugby game, seriously other than the very occasional death in a game of Bloodbowl they have almost as many injuries at the club on a Saturday. It supposed to be the most deadly sport ever played, in fact so rough and deadly it's actually replaced war and it just isn't.

I'd like to see the game reflect the background a bit more, it doesn't have to be quite as mental as the novels (although i wouldn't mind). May be a distinction between Named players and more disposable linemen.

I'd certainly agree the miniatures need an overhaul. Even the most recent are probably 10+ years by now

[Mr Mystery]

Well, I'd dearly like not to suck so horribly at it. My tactics are bobbins, the dice hate me, and I have few plans beyond 'shove them into the crowd, and try to get one of those touchdown things'

I'd like to echo the board call, except sod (PUN!) the grass, Astrogranite or bust' complete with the end zone inserts.

Models wise? A far better visual difference between the various classes of player. I know it's not exactly dire, but it's a knack I never picked up.

Expansions! I've got the old Starplayers and Compendium books, and I love reading them. Take a leaf out their pages (PUN!), and perhaps have annual sets of star players. Package them up all nice like the Heresy Character Series, and bung their rules in the box. Available for a set time, then gone for good. Would generate repeat sales.

[odinsgrandson]

Well I'd rather they did it properly rather than just a rehash. I'd like to see a bit more longevity built into it this time round.



I'm not into that idea. I'm a huge Blood Bowl fan, but it isn't because I love the idea of fantasy sports games. In all honesty- I don't. I just love Blood Bowl. If they don't keep the core stuff that I love, I'd be afraid that it would just be another Dreadball/Guldball/Elfball etc (only with GW minis and a GW pricetag).

I love the way that Blood Bowl plays- and I'm not sure that I have confidence that their design team can create a game that works that well on a tactical level- because I don't feel like GW has ever achieved that standard before or since.

Blood Bowl- more than any other GW game- is about making tough decisions on the fly that dramatically alter the game's outcome. I often find that with most GW games, if I create a strong list with a good plan, I rarely have to deviate from that plan (this even goes for things like Space Hulk, where most of the missions are at least somewhat solvable).




As far as deaths and injuries go- probably you just haven't been playing with the right people. There's a world of difference between a league that knows how to gear players for casualties and a league that doesn't.

But if they make death and permanent injuries too common, then we end up with a situation where a lot of people lose their favorite characters (and sometimes quit the game). I don't think that's very good for the community.

[Mr Mystery]

And ramp up the insanity.

Maybe not Pogo-Loonies falling down Trampoline Traps shortly before achieving orbit, but give it out more secret weapons. I likes my silly, I do.

[grimmas]

I'm not into that idea. I'm a huge Blood Bowl fan, but it isn't because I love the idea of fantasy sports games. In all honesty- I don't. I just love Blood Bowl. If they don't keep the core stuff that I love, I'd be afraid that it would just be another Dreadball/Guldball/Elfball etc (only with GW minis and a GW pricetag).

I love the way that Blood Bowl plays- and I'm not sure that I have confidence that their design team can create a game that works that well on a tactical level- because I don't feel like GW has ever achieved that standard before or since.

Blood Bowl- more than any other GW game- is about making tough decisions on the fly that dramatically alter the game's outcome. I often find that with most GW games, if I create a strong list with a good plan, I rarely have to deviate from that plan (this even goes for things like Space Hulk, where most of the missions are at least somewhat solvable).



As far as deaths and injuries go- probably you just haven't been playing with the right people. There's a world of difference between a league that knows how to gear players for casualties and a league that doesn't.

But if they make death and permanent injuries too common, then we end up with a situation where a lot of people lose their favorite characters (and sometimes quit the game). I don't think that's very good for the community.

The problem I see with releasing as is, is that they'd be releasing a game that already exists, the rules are still there and there are plenty of companies who make Bloodbowl miniatures and I can't see a 20+ year game (CRP is just tweeked 3rd ed) sparking the interest like a decent rethink. I would agree they do need to keep the spirit of the game alive though. BB has always been Jervis' baby and he's the man in charge of games development so I think it'll be quite safe. He was also the man who ran specialist games when they existed and that's where GWs best rules work was done. His work outside GW is also still good. I know he cops a bit on the internet because he advocates narative over hard competition but he can still write.

I'm not sure more casualties will be too fracturing on the community though. I was thinking more of a system that would give you a team with a core of "hero" players who would be more survivable with the rest of the team made up of more disposable types. Much how it's portrayed in the novels and background.

[odinsgrandson]

Ah. Well, you can just play Vampires for that sort of feel.


As for the old game not gathering interest- well, I honestly don't see that happening. Sure, the Icepelt rules are available from Cyanide, along with everything you might need to play (dice, boards, etc).

But look at Space Hulk. The demand was there, and they did a great job of it without completely reinventing the rules set.

I don't think they need to reinvent the rules in order to make the game a hit. I think they could just add a few tweaks to the CRP rules and make it work out great.

Basically, they could do what Cyanide are doing with the rules- just tweak them. Otherwise, I think we're in serious danger of chucking the baby out with the bathwater.

[Mr Mystery]

They still need to consider overall sales volumes.

Blood Bowl is a well loved classic of gaming, and to the best of my knowledge stood alone as the only Fantasy Sports game for a long old while.

Those mad keen on it are likely to still have their teams kicking about somewhere, quite possibly lovingly painted and converted, alongside various incarnations of the game (I recently re-procured the Star Players and Compendium books myself).

If it's just a spit and polish job on the last edition, then those existing sets are potentially lost sales, depending on how spangly the new boxed set is.

But, rework the rules and you stand to gain those sales back, and won't really be in a worse position overall as those happy as is won't buy in, just as they wouldn't have needed to buy in if the rules were the same old.

I guess it depends on what the wider community does. If you can get enough people buying the new so it supplants the old on the tournament and league scene, you're onto a winner.

[grimmas]

Yep ultimately for the continued support its does need sales. Of course it being a good game with depth significantly helps achieve this aim. I am minded by a rant that appeared in White Dwarf a number of years back. A very unhappy BB player wrote in to complain about the release of updated Star Players and how this was an affront to him as a customer as he didn't want to buy them (not that he didn't like them just that he didn't want to buy any) a little strange but it does illustrate the difficulties faced.

I would very much agree with Odinsgrandson on the feel of the game though. Bloodbowl always managed to create the feel that every move had consequences and it gave the game real bite I'd like to see that remain.

[Mr Mystery]

Presumbaly Jervis is going to reclaim his baby, so I think we're in safe hands.

Previous rejigs and rewrites have been to smooth out the gaming experience. The Astrogranite version had dozens upon dozens of tables to roll on. Fun in it's way, but distracting from the game play. The Block Dice version did away with most of those, without really changing up the gameplay itself (though the limit of one Blitz per turn made the game a lot harder to play well, as you really needed to plan your moves!)

[odinsgrandson]

Those mad keen on it are likely to still have their teams kicking about somewhere, quite possibly lovingly painted and converted, alongside various incarnations of the game (I recently re-procured the Star Players and Compendium books myself).

If it's just a spit and polish job on the last edition, then those existing sets are potentially lost sales, depending on how spangly the new boxed set is.


Aarg. This is the sort of thing that gets people OUT of the game, not into it.

Right now, they have the opportunity to use the inertia that the older gamers have, and also give us a new edition of the game for everyone to get excited about.


- Old gamers will want the new minis and board if they look great. If they're ugly, they'll stick with Impact, Greebo or Willy minis.

- Make a few small changes to the rules and you're good. Small alterations that keep the experience working the way that it was working before, so that your older gamers have a little something to figure out, but don't feel alienated.

- GW does new versions of old minis all the time. They sell well when the old ones are very old (and GW's blood bowl line is extremely old). Make them all look as good as the Dark Eldar upgrade and you're in good shape.

[Brenlak]

Anyone pick up the new set? Greycup just finished so it's time to crack that rulebook!
The Skaven minis are out of stock on the GW site so that should be a good sign of how many people are interested in playing.

[odinsgrandson]

I was really surprised at the prices on everything.

$100 core game and $35 for a new team? Yes, please. And a $25 expansion book? Where did GW go, and who are these new people?

The rules look like they're preserved just about right- some new tweaks, but not an overhaul. Basically LRB-7. And that's just about perfect in my mind.

From the rumours, it seems that there will be a PDF for all of the "Legacy Teams" to be included (sans Slaan).

Right now, I'm still playing on a custom made board, so I'm not grabbing the new core set right off the bat (I'll wait until I'm through spending all of my money on Kingdom Death, and have some spare time to paint up the new teams).

[Al Shut]

Suprised insn't quite the right word, I'm shocked.

If I'm not mistaken 25€ (or rather 50DM) is what I paid for an additional team 20 years ago.

[odinsgrandson]

Exactly. The 2nd ed teams were all $35.

Also, $35 is what it costs to buy a team from Impact! minis in trollforge plastic (16 man teams in that case).

Those prices... they're just so reasonable. I mean, I feel like they're charging the same price for a team as they do for one stormcast hero.

[Brenlak]

Yeah, who are these people and what did they do with the old GW staff?
Skaven are back in stock on the website, Dwarves sound like they are on the way in Janruary.
On the home front I have had an ad up to swap my orks for more humans but so far it goes unanswered, if it goes like this any longer I will just buy another starter and put the board up for sale.

Still haven't started painting my squad up, I really hope to find some old empire decals so I don't have to make them some kind of bird team. Thinking the Ostermark Ocelots but not crazy over the state colors (purple and white)

[odinsgrandson]

Space Marine decals work really well too. If you want to be a sort of bird, I remember there's an eagle head you could use.

I'm a free hand sort of person, so decals aren't the rout for me.

[Brenlak]

Space Marine decals!! Beauty, thank you!

Skaven out of stock again, lol

[Brenlak]

So a couple questions from a new player here. So I ordered an Ogre from eBay what size of base do I put him on? The older models had a larger base but they took up 4 squares, the new pitch the squares are 32mm instead of 25mm so the old bases won't have the same footprint, any thoughts?

So are we going to have to order the referees from Forge World then? I was hoping I could get them from my local but they don't stock forge world (does anyone?). I have never ordered from forge world but all the horror stories I hear about them is enough to put me off.