Could use help with this list 2500 pts Dark Elves

[Christian]

Hi,
I am new to this forum and the first thing I wanted to post was my Army list which I made for a tournament.
The tournament will be held in 3-4 weeks but I need an army list until next week.
There will be a lot of cheesy lists in the tournament (cheesy vamps, demons and other dark elves).

So heres my list:
Lord
- Cold One
- PoK
- Caledors Bane
- Potion of Strength

Master BSB
- Dark Steed
- Heavy Armour
- Shield
- Sea Dragon Cloak
- Hydra Banner

Sorceress lvl 2
2x Scroll

Sorceress lvl 2
2x Scroll

Assassin
- Add. Handweapon
- Rending Stars
- Manbane


Assassin
- Add. Handweapon
- Rune of Khaine
- Touch of Death
- Black Lotus

10 Crossbowmen

10 Crossbowmen

5 Dark Riders, Musician

5 Shades, GW, Light Armour

5 Cold One Knights, Full Command

5 Cold One Knights, Full Command

14 Black Guard, Full Command, Ring of Hotek, Standard of Hag Graef

2 Hydras

The Assassin with the rending stars will be going into the shade unit, while the other one goes with the Black Guard. The BSB will go with the Black Guard too, but can also go into one of the Knight Units. The Sorceresses go in one Crossbowmen unit each.

What do you think? I could realy use your help:)

[Lord Azaghul]

Hi,
I am new to this forum and the first thing I wanted to post was my Army list which I made for a tournament.
The tournament will be held in 3-4 weeks but I need an army list until next week.
There will be a lot of cheesy lists in the tournament (cheesy vamps, demons and other dark elves).

So heres my list:
Lord
- Cold One
- PoK
- Caledors Bane
- Potion of Strength

Master BSB
- Dark Steed
- Heavy Armour
- Shield
- Sea Dragon Cloak
- Hydra Banner

Sorceress lvl 2
2x Scroll

Sorceress lvl 2
2x Scroll

Assassin
- Add. Handweapon
- Rending Stars
- Manbane


Assassin
- Add. Handweapon
- Rune of Khaine
- Touch of Death
- Black Lotus

10 Crossbowmen

10 Crossbowmen

5 Dark Riders, Musician

5 Shades, GW, Light Armour

5 Cold One Knights, Full Command

5 Cold One Knights, Full Command

2 Hydras

The Assassin with the rending stars will be going into the shade unit, while the other one goes with the Black Guard. The BSB will go with the Black Guard too, but can also go into one of the Knight Units. The Sorceresses go in one Crossbowmen unit each.

What do you think? I could realy use your help:)

Where's your black guard?

I think you're making a mistake concentrated on defensive magic, drop the 4 scrolls.

You're really missing the strengths of the DE in this list. A standard soft dwarf list would tear this apart.

[Christian]

Sorry my bad. Forgott them.
What do you mean with the main strength.
Should I maybe add another Unit of Spearmen if I take out the Scrolls?

[Lord Azaghul]

Ah Sorry I was short on time when I made my last post.

DE are probably the best army in the game right now. They have the ability to dominate every phase in the game, and pretty handily too! However there strengths are not defensive, stocking up on defensive magic doesn't benfit them terribly - as is this game favors the aggressor (and I'm a long time dwarf player telling you this!)

I know its standard kit, but you really want harpies in this army. Cheap flyers who can march block and take out soft targets.

CoK's - I think you'd be better off dropping one unit and buffying the other unit up to 6 or 7, don't take the FC unless you're planning on taking a magic banner, like Mr 3d combat rez.

I think one socrerss with a ring of hotec, hanging around with some fast cav, get up on make those other casters beg.
Drop 1 Socress, and take a hag with a coldron. The couldron is amazing and adds a great deal of flexabilty to your list

2 Assassines? I think more fast cav, or black guard would be a better option or even 15 corsars with hand bows. One assassine usuually gets the job done, and he can leave the unit once he's been revealed.

2 Hydra's are great but they will be expected. I personally perfer 1 and 2 bolt throwers, but that's just preference.

[Christian]

Thanks for your fast answer.
I would love to add all the stuff you said but im a out of money at the moment.
And this shouldn't be a defensive army. I would strike the enemy as early as i can.
For the CoKs I think your right, but I had some comments on other websites (like druchii.net) that I should take two of 5.
I am using the scrolls to defend myself against bloody vamp and deamon magic. Maybe I can drop two of them and see that I can get a unit of spearmen inside the army.

[Lord Azaghul]

Thanks for your fast answer.
I would love to add all the stuff you said but im a out of money at the moment.
And this shouldn't be a defensive army. I would strike the enemy as early as i can.
For the CoKs I think your right, but I had some comments on other websites (like druchii.net) that I should take two of 5.
I am using the scrolls to defend myself against bloody vamp and deamon magic. Maybe I can drop two of them and see that I can get a unit of spearmen inside the army.

No worries work with what you've got then.

You list will still work, but you'll need to kill vamp casters asap. You don't want to get into a war of attitrion with VC.

If you had to drop one thing, I think the 2nd assassin is the least needed - trading him for 2 units of harpies would be very much worth while, or failing that a 2nd unit of fast cav.

[Christian]

Sorry to disappoint you but I only have 7 Dark Riders and no Harpies. But if you want I can make a list of the other stuff I have.

[Lord Azaghul]

Sorry to disappoint you but I only have 7 Dark Riders and no Harpies. But if you want I can make a list of the other stuff I have.

Oh, well, it was just a thought. Fear not! Just trust your experience and use what you know!
After all internet advise can often lead to everyone playing the same (boring) list.
DE have a lot of solid options, and your current set up isn't terrible by any means.

[Christian]

Thank you very much. I hope I can make the most of it.

[Christian]

OK heres a list of what models I have. Maybe there is something I can exchange in the list. I dont have money to buy new models.

2 Sorceresses
1 Dreadlord on CO
1 Master on Foot (BSB)
1 Master on Dark Steed (BSB)
1 Sorceress on CO
2 Assassins

around 30 Spearmen
30 Crossbowmen
20 Corsaires (not painted)
6 Dark Riders

15 Black Guard
10 CoK

2 Hydras
2 Bolt Throwers

[Lord Azaghul]

I think with what you have and what you using you have a solid theme. Most of your army is designed to punch of the enemies throat.
I'd like to see another block to support the black guard, and corsairs aren't bad at all (the armour piercing banner can really make then nasty), but I'm not sure what you'd have to trade out to get them in your list.

[Christian]

I could downgrade a sorceress to lvl 1... That give me 35 points but less magick offense, which I will not need that much. But then...?

[Lord Azaghul]

Nah, then you'd be going half way on both magic offense and defense.

[Christian]

Why defense. Either way, ill only get one DP.
Damm what else do I not need????!!!

[Christian]

Ok heres a list someone reccomended to me:


Deployment should take opponent and terrain in consideration.
It is very hard to decide that on advance.
But here are a valid option with army something like this.
Mainly to get better value of RoH, Lord ld and BsB use them central.

Lord
-HeavyArmour of ES
- rest of Mundane amour
- Cold One
- RoH
- Caledors Bane

Master BSB
-Lance
- Cold One
- Heavy Armour
- Shield
- Sea Dragon Cloak
- Hydra Banner

Sorceror Lv1
-2 dispell scrolls (You might want to take away sorceror and get more models instead)

Assassin (With BG)
- Add. Handweapon
- Rune of Khaine
- Manbane

Assassin (With Warriors)
- Add. Handweapon
- Rune of Khaine
- Manbane

5 Dark Riders

10 Crossbowmen

10 Crossbowmen

20 Warriors FC +Warbanner

5 Shades

5 Cold One Knights FC

5 Cold One Knights FC

20 Black Guard FC + Standard of Hag Graef

2 Hydras

Deployment
Hydra BG+A Knights+L BsB+Knights Warrior+A Hydra
Sorceror and both units of crossbowmen as central as possible behind the Knights moving 5" after knights first turns, they should then have a good place to be able to shoot at oppoents and protection from RoH, move them when neccessary.
Dont cast spells with sorceror untill out of RoH sphere.
Shades in good scout place
Dark Riders start in cover if possible or behind other troops since they fragile
and then fast move with 18" to threat asap warmachines or mislead or block.
Always position characters toward center of field to maximize their sphere of influence.

Regardless of deployment what is vital is to attack in support when needed.
Use Hydras breath to soften up enemies when needed especially with assassins and BG since they have ASF.
Try get Hydras in Flank of enemies while breathing then if you got opportunity charge them from 2 sides.
Against good oppoents that wont work then charge with 2 of your units in support at one of his to crush them.
Easier said than done however against good opponents but training gives experience.
Have patience during test battles, try to see whats good and whats not.
Good luck


What do you think. I think there is something in there which I could use. I really don't like giving away a sorceress, it will lower my magic defense. And i acctually wanted one assassin with rending stars in my shade unit. I really have to see about it. I will have some test games today and will test the lists.

[Christian]

I had a testgame today, against demons, but lost.
The player (he also plays dark elves) told me I should take out the Cold One Knights, add another crossbowmen unit and add some Spearmen and an Assassin.

I thought of taking away the BSB and making the two 5 men CoK into a unit of 7 CoK and then add another Crossbowmen unit.

[Christian]

Ah why do I always have to have bad luck...!!! Well I had a game against Skaven today and it went well only to the end. Only the black guard survived. I played with this list:

Lord: 285
- Cold One
- Full Mundane Armour
- Pendant of Khaeleth
- Caledors Bane
- Potion of Strength

Sorceress lvl 1: 150
- 2 Dispell Scroll
Sorceress lvl 1: 150
- 2 Dispell scroll

Master: 176
- Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak
- Great Weapon
- BSB
- Ring of Darkness

10 Crossbowmen: 100

10 Crossbowmen: 100

10 Crossbowmen:100

5 Dark Riders, RxB: 110

5 Shades, GW: 90

9 Cold One Knights, Banner, Champion, Null Talisman, War Banner: 325


14 Black Guard, FC: 277
- Ring of Hotek
- Banner of Hag Graef

Assassin, Add. Handw. Rending Stars, Manbane: 151

Assassin, add Hadw., Rune of Khaine, Touch of Death: 151

2 Hydras: 350

I know now, that I have to little magic defense. So I actually want to take away some stuff. First I thought of removing the ring of darkness of the BSB and give him three null shards for the same price. That means every Unit he is in has MR3. Then I wanted to change the Potion of Strength into two Null Shards for my Lord. Problem is then, that he will be week once in the second round of combat. What do you think?

[Joker's Wild]

I'm checking back after not looking at this thread in a while, and you went from a list that is way under powered to a list that is way over powered, but if the goal is to compete with cheese, you're all set.

You could make the list about 30% better by losing a unit of x-bows and a sorc for a cauldron and more black guard.

Being able to assign KB to either hydra and the BG make them so much better. +1 attack goes great on the knights or the BG. With the 5+ ward on the BG (and having more of them) you may not need to ring of darkness either, which would allow you to make your BSB somewhat defended. Regen armor and soul render maybe...

The cauldron would also allow you to put manbane back on your KB assassin, but if you do keep him with KB, at least give him the re-roll 1's to wound poison so you're not wasting 6's to hit. You could really replace it with any of the poisons, but don't leave the regular one on him.

Also, the lance on the lord is a mistake. You would be better off with crimson death. You don't really need the shield, but you do need to be able to win in subsequent rounds of CC.

Make those changes and winning should get much easier.

[Joker's Wild]

I know now, that I have to little magic defense. So I actually want to take away some stuff. First I thought of removing the ring of darkness of the BSB and give him three null shards for the same price. That means every Unit he is in has MR3. Then I wanted to change the Potion of Strength into two Null Shards for my Lord. Problem is then, that he will be week once in the second round of combat. What do you think?

Also, you're looking the wrong direction. You have too much defense. 3 dice, 2 scrolls, and the ring should be plenty. You should be zipping across the board into combat. Sure you might lose some units to a Slaan or a Grey Seer, but you're supposed to.

The cauldron will make sure what you have left hits like a ton of bricks when it gets there. +1 attack on the shades with a flank charge isn't bad as a tool either.

[Christian]

The problem is that I dont have a cauldron and I cant get one because I dont have enough money. That is why I brought in the x-bows. If I would have the money I would buy one.

[Joker's Wild]

You can convert (proxy) a cauldron very easily with a what-a burger ketchup painted brown or metallic on a 40mm base. Then add 3 witches, or even 2 warriors and the sorc around it and you've got a cauldron.

Just sayin'

[Christian]

I would love to do that but in the tournament rules say that every miniature has to be a citadel miniature and converted models have to be converted from a citadel miniature.

[Christian]

Ok i have to give in the Army List tomorrow. Any changes have to be done today.

[Lord Azaghul]

At this stage I'd say just go with what you know how to use, and what your most comfortable with!

[gcsmith]

man thats mean, why did the DE take all our good items when they left ulthaun, I want my HE items back :p seriously tho
thats mean

[Lord Azaghul]

man thats mean, why did the DE take all our good items when they left ulthaun, I want my HE items back :p seriously tho
thats mean

because them's how the games-workshops people likes to write fair books!

I want a couple of 'I almost win buttons' for my army too!

[gcsmith]

I dnt want I win buttons, But i thought HE would put if ur evil and wear this ring, clap ur hands 'oh wait theyve turned to dust' kinda thing on their items

[Lord Azaghul]

Understandable. But I to believe the HE got the 'oh don't bother bring your anvil dwarf player' item!

I wasn't happy the day I read that! Sounds like an evil item to me!:D

[gcsmith]

Really, Only worth in fun games and that means list tailoring, Items like that shouldnt exist. ALL items should have a USE ALWAYS.

[Lord Azaghul]

Really, Only worth in fun games and that means list tailoring, Items like that shouldnt exist. ALL items should have a USE ALWAYS.

I ranted about that item for a couple of weeks, and to this day I still havne't seen anyone take it!

Agreed on the 'useful item' thing, most of the newer books are headed that way, hopefully the trend continues when my greenies and my dwarves get new books!

[gcsmith]

greenies which as you know ive done have very well thought out items, dwarfs too, its my Brets i feel worse about, totally unusable items and a power level of 1 compared to most armies.

[Lord Azaghul]

greenies which as you know ive done have very well thought out items, dwarfs too, its my Brets i feel worse about, totally unusable items and a power level of 1 compared to most armies.

For the most part dwarf have solid items, a few are too expensive to be practice, same with the greenies.

I do agree on the bretts. They should almost have a more 'dwarven' approach to magic, ie an inborne resistance

[gcsmith]

Brets were my 1st fantasy love, shame they are poor. Really while my friends see them as french I see them as King arthur style knights, So while they acknolege the lady, she blesses them directly and not with damsels, so i agree with u, still lets not derail the thread.

[Christian]

Ok I now handed in my Army list. Thank you for your help everyone.