New SM needs help

[shesheyan]

Hello!

Can't seem to secure victory with 1500 all comers list. Dire need of suggestions. tx

175 Kantor
315 Sternguard x8 [6 CM30 / 2 MG10 / PF25] +Rhino [EA15]

245 Tactical x10 [PF25 / FL 0 / MM 0] + Rhino [EA15]
245 Tactical x10 [PF25 / FL 0 / MM 0] + Rhino [EA15]

035 Drop Pod [ML20]
180 Venerable Dreadnought [EA15]

115 Vindicator
165 Predator [TWLC45 / LC60]
----
1495

[Lord Azaghul]

I'll start off by saying I'm not too experienced with SM, I'm just starting them myself. But I am good at killing SM, and I know what causes me problems.

Mutlimeltas on your 10man squads really aren't worth it, you've effectively limited to 12" Pretty much ANY of the other choices are better. Are you combat squading?

Pedro and those stern guard need to be a drop pod

Ven dread is really expensive, dropping him down to a reqular dread with multimelta, cc weapon and extra armour frees up a few points.

Pred. That's a lot of points wrap up @ 1500. Taking it down to just the TL LC will also save you a few points.
Between that and the dread, you should be able to get an out flanking scout squad, to come in near pedro's drop pod.

[Image]

For 200 points, you can get an ironclad dread with two HK missiles and a meltagun/hvy flamer in a drop pod. That saves you about 15 points over the ven dread. Personally, I never thought ven dreads were worthwhile, even though they look solid on paper. For that ironclad, you could either take away the missiles to round him out to 180 or give him frag launchers, which are actually really nice.

As for your pred, it's a lot of lascannons, but you need to be sitting still to fire them all. Plus, anytime you're glanced, you're probably not going to be firing at all. I say, grab another vindicator.

Then, as mentioned, you can bring in Pedro with sternguard in drop pod with some combi-meltas so any scary vehicle can be pretty safely targetted. :)

[Tynskel]

Pedro and those stern guard need to be a drop pod



Helllllllzz no!

Unless the force has at least 3 Drop Pods, a Rhino/Razorback is the vehicle for Sternguard.

Drop Pod on turn 1= DEAD ~500 point unit-----

Please Please give me a 1/3rd your army to kill on turn 1!!! I beg you!

Sternguard should move up with the force.

Here's some suggestions:

I would walk a venerable, drop an Ironclad-- Ironclads are meant to be up close n' personal. They are a great 1rst turn distraction- putting the hurt out. So, if you are gunna Drop, take the Ironclad.

Minor changes: The extra armor on the Rhinos is not very useful: 1) that's 45 points. 2) most dedicated firepower that is tank bustn' will penetrate- and really messing up your ability to move (4+ chance to never moving again, 3+ if a melta---nevermind repair). Instead of a cheap transport, you now have an expensive transport.

As much as I love annihilators, I would make the Pred a Destructor w/ Lascannon Sponsons. That's another 45 points.

I would take an ironclad with assault launchers and Hv Flamer in a drop pod. That's 20 points!

now you have 110 points to work with---

I would invest in a Siege Shield for your Vindicator: Being able to drive where ever is awesome!

I would ditch 2 Sternguard. Buy a Razorback-- +45points

Buy a second Predator Destructor: I firmly believe that these tanks work well in pairs.

New List:

HQ 175
175 Chapter Master
Pedro Kantor

ELITES 460
215 Dreadnought
Ironclad, Assault Launchers, Hv Flamer
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod, Deathwind Launcher
245 Sternguard Veterans
6 Sternguard, 4 Combi-Meltas, Powerfist, 2 Meltaguns
Dedicated Transport: Razorback

TROOPS 500
240 Tactical Squad
10 Marines, Flamer, Multi-Melta, Powerfist, Combi-Flamer
Dedicated Transport: Rhino
260 Tactical Squad
10 Marines, Flamer, Mulit-Melta, Power Weapon
Dedicated Transport: Razorback, Twin-Linked Assault Cannons

Hv SUPPORT 365
125 Vindicator
Tank, Siege Shield
120 Predator Destructor
Tank, Lascannon Sponsons
120 Predator Destructor
Tank, Lascannon Sponsons


Pedro now rides with the Tactical Squad-- Plus a Twin-Linked Assault Cannon Razorback. BIG Target. Not shooting the Sternguard. You also have 2 Predators, a vindicator, a Rhino, and another Razorback. Did I forget to mention the Ironclad and Deathwind Drop Pod?

The idea is to spread the Target Priority to every unit in the army. Your previous list was easy: Shoot Sternguard, Then Vindicator, Then Venerable Dreadnought. (If warranted, shoot the Venerable earlier). Your Tactical Squads are not dangerous-- they'll win in a protracted fight, but Space Marines don't fight protracted fights-- they want decisive battles. The most dangerous elements in your list are all clumped together in nice extinguishable packages.

The list I have designed is difficult to decide who to destroy first (other than the Ironclad). The Deathwind Launcher- if ignored, will just blast the crap outta your opponent- making it a priority- precious anti-tank weapons being spent on the drop pod, not other vehicles.

Your Tactical Squad, with Pedro, will have a crap load of attacks- making that squad deadly-- 5 power weapon Attacks on the Charge! They'll have a good chance at wiping an opponent off an objective in one go. I would recommend not to combat squad the second tactical squad, 10 Marines with two flamers on the charge are pretty deadly.

Basic Tactics/Deployment:
Predators setup opposite sides of the deployment area-- Crossfire, and it will be almost impossible for your opponent to deny side armor hits-- 2 Lascannons and an Autocannon will rock against side armor.

The Ironclad: target whatever you want dead. The drop pod- if you can, should be near some troops. But, you really want that Ironclad in position.

The Vindicator, 2 Razorbacks, and the Rhino should roll up the middle-- quickest way to your opponent!

The one combat squad should be placed on an objective- since it is only 5 marines, I would recommend hiding- use that multi-melta as a deterrent, not as a hunter.

You have the advantage of the Sternguard being able to claim---- but do not treat them as a Tactical Squad-- their job is to destroy. Claiming is secondary.


Hope this helps!