Codex: Ecclesiarchy

[Necrosis]

I have finally finish my Codex. It is now on a PDF file. The Ecclesiarchy is official state Church of the Imperium. It is one of the most powerfully organization in the Imperium. During times of War they can call upon the Adepta Sororitas, the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy, also know as the sisters of battle. Combined with large numbers of Imperial Fanatics, this makes the Ecclesiarchy one of the most feared armies in the entire Imperium of Man.

PDF: http://download200.mediafire.com/acdzma1yjzfg/mzyjz1uqymf/Codex_Ecclesiarchy_by_Necrosis%282%29.pdf

The Witch Hunter Codex although still strong, seems lacking. Thus I decided to redo the Codex and bring them inline. Yet bring them inline wouldn't be engough to make them as powerful as the new 5th edition codex. Thus I added some new units and options. I also gave the player the ability to field a non-sister army. Thus this codex allows for variety. I also tried to make it as balance as possible. I made a few slight changes to acts of faiths to make them simpler yet still effective. I wanted this army to be able to deal with any threat and yet not being overpowered at the same time. I also plan on adding a quick reference sheet soon.

If you have any comments, feel free to post them here.

Errata

Page 10, Inquisitorial Sisters, add the following rule:
-Faithful: Add one faith point

All Veteran Superiors options should include:
-Melta Bombs… 5 points
-Purity Seals… 5 points

Page, Living Saint, remove the retinue rule and replace it with the following:
An army that includes a Living Saint removes 0-1 limit on Venerable Seraphims

Page 9, Celestians, add the following:
-One Celestian armed with a bolter may be upgraded to an Imagifier
-Imagifiers count as having Angelic Visage Special Rule (see seraphim page 14)

Page 11, Battle Sister, add the following:
-One Battle Sister armed with a bolter may be upgraded to an Imagifier
-Imagifiers count as having Angelic Visage Special Rule (see seraphim page 14)

Page 13, Imperial Cultist/Zealots, remove the following:
One model in the unit may be upgraded to a Demagogue.

Page 22, Other Equipment, add the following:
-Purity Seal: If a model wearing a purity seals falls back, roll one extra D6 for its fall back distance and then discard one of the D6 of your choice to distance fallen back. If a model with purity seals is part of a unit then this ability applies to the entire unit as well.

[Gooball]

Hmm looks like an updated witch hunters codex to me.
Well done, very fair-ish rules (i skimmed by a few units)

[Herald of Nurgle]

Herald of Nurgle uses Nurgle's Rot on the Wall of Text.
Super Effective!
Wall of Text fainted.
Herald of Nurgle gained 77,777 exp.
Herald of Nurgle is Level 77! (777 HP, Atk 1, Def 2000, Sp. Atk 2000, Sp. Def 2000, Speed 1)

Yeah its long. I'll read it asap - ironically I quite like Inquisition and such.

[Melissia]

... five heavy flamers in one squad?

Geeze, and people tried to call MY codex cheesy...

[Necrosis]

... five heavy flamers in one squad?

Geeze, and people tried to call MY codex cheesy...

5 heavy flamers in one squad? I don't see a single unit that can do that.

[Melissia]

Retributors can. You let them purchase four heavy flamers, and then the veteran can purchase another one.

[Necrosis]

Woops, time to edit that out.

[Melissia]

Even just four Heavy Flamers is rather excessive... GW actually removed the ability of Retributor squads to take heavy flamers when transferring from second to third edition, because of the problem with cheap drive-by heavy flamer squads (two heavy flamers firing out of the rhino for very cheap).

[Necrosis]

The way that 5 edition codexs are going now, we might see that again. Sisters are suppose to be the army that uses holy fire but as it stands right now, Space marines and Blood Angels seem to do a just as good or even better job at this then sisters. And if were talking about Excessive lets take a loot at the space wolf long fangs, they can take 5 special weapons and split fire and are less points then retributors when they both have heavy bolters or multi meltas. Or here's another example from the ork codex, burna boyz, each one of them has a flamer, so that's 15 flamers in one squad.

[Melissia]

Burna Boyz are elites, and they are expensive for how fragile they are, with a 6+ armor save and no dedicated transport. While they ARE good, the only real way to ensure that all fifteen burnaz can get to theri target and, well, burn them, is by spending around three hundred and twenty points for the burnaboyz squad and a battlewagon, taking up two slots and not even guarenteeing it'll get in range-- the battlewagon is the only real target for heavy anti-tnk anyway, when fighting against an Ork army.

That's quite different from ~150 points for five heavy flamers in Rhinos, which can ignore carapace armor equivalents, and causes more wounds... and you can get two of them for the price of the Ork squad. And they have 3+ armor saves and Acts of Faith. And you ahve points left over to get some ablative wounds.

[Necrosis]

Looks like no one is gonig to say anything until I make another response.

Here another example of excessiveness in 40k, let take a look at the Eldar Fire Dragons, each one of them has a melta gun for 16 points each. Also when you compare Retributors to your other heavy support choices are you going to take them? I mean how many times do we see sister army list with 3 or 2 Excorists and no retributors? You have to give them something to make them attractive choice.

[Melissia]

True, but I still worry it might be excessive.

Making up new wargear would be better I think... the reason you pick Heavy Support as Sisters is typically for long-ranged anti-tank.

[Necrosis]

But the problem is sisters don't use missle launchers, plasma weapons (expect pistols for the superior) or lascannons, as you said I would have to make up some kind of new wargear. Maybe the unit could take a 5 point upgrade for each model that allows them to shoot their multi melta as assault 12 or heavy 24?

[Melissia]

But the problem is sisters don't use missle launchers
... the Exorcist Missile Launcher.

[Necrosis]

Well thats a missle launcher that shots melta missles. So it's the expection to the rule.

[Melissia]

Exorcist Missiles aren't melta missiles; they do not have the Melta rule.

[Necrosis]

They are melta missles, hence why they are ap1 instead of ap3. It also says so in Apoc 2 book.

[Melissia]

I don't have the apoc 2 book, mind providing a quote?

If they're melta missiles, then they should have 2d6 penetration, not just D6.

[Faultie]

Yeah, I don't recall that from IA:2. It's not in the Ammunition part, either, that I recall.

[Gooball]

Krak missile for a oneshot solution?
I can see witch hunters having a lance weapon but i always thought that there not meant to be heavily armed (needing to move a lot and stuff)
Rng 48" Str 7 Ap2 Heavy; lance
Or giving them weapons slung underneath their bolters or something... Combi-bolter/krak?
Edit; Oh and i would say the excorsist is melta Tipped in the same way bolters are mini-rockets.. giving it penetration rather than explosions

[Melissia]

If they're not heavily armed and therefor have to move, then why give tthem multi-meltas or heavy bolters?

[Necrosis]

Sorry for the late response but here is the quote:

"In such battles the sororitas rely largely on their arcane Excorst tanks to deal with such resilient targets, often combining them on the battlefield in a 'chorus of faith' whose massed firepower can obliterate even a scout titan in a hail of melta missiles."

@Faultie
Apoc 2, not IA 2.

[Melissia]

Which, again, makes no sense from a stats point. If they were melta they'd have 2d6 penetration. A weapon can be AP1 without being melta.

[Necrosis]

Melta weapons don't always roll 2d6 for armour penetration and if the Excorist did, well that would just be over powered. D6 shots at strenght 8 that roll 2d6 for amour pen with 48 range? Then again I wouldn't be surprised if GW did it.

[Atrotos]

I was very happy with this update and I would be happy to play against it. Though obviously competitive all of the units seem fairly priced. Only playtesting will reveal imbalances - the author has been very thorough rules-wise.

More proofreading is needed however. Though the rules are good the writing is sloppy and full of typos.

[Melissia]

Melta weapons don't always roll 2d6 for armour penetration
All Melta weapons have the Melta rule. It's what defines them.

Inferno Pistols, Meltaguns, Multi-Meltas, Melta Cannons, Fusion Guns, Fusion Blasters, and so on, all have it.

[Faultie]

Sorry for the late response but here is the quote:

"In such battles the sororitas rely largely on their arcane Excorst tanks to deal with such resilient targets, often combining them on the battlefield in a 'chorus of faith' whose massed firepower can obliterate even a scout titan in a hail of melta missiles."

@Faultie
Apoc 2, not IA 2.

Ah, I see. That explains my confusion (it just so happens that IA2 was the one with all the SoB stuff.)

[Necrosis]

I was very happy with this update and I would be happy to play against it. Though obviously competitive all of the units seem fairly priced. Only playtesting will reveal imbalances - the author has been very thorough rules-wise.

More proofreading is needed however. Though the rules are good the writing is sloppy and full of typos.
If you spot any typos feel free to post them. I mean this is one of the reasons I posted it here.


All Melta weapons have the Melta rule. It's what defines them.

Inferno Pistols, Meltaguns, Multi-Meltas, Melta Cannons, Fusion Guns, Fusion Blasters, and so on, all have it.

But if they are out of melta range then they don't roll 2d6. I don't know much about melta weapons but we could say whatever causes the melta to roll 1d6 when out of melta range also applies to the Exorcist missile.

[Melissia]

THe Melta Cannon gets its 2d6 at max range IIRC.

[Necrosis]

That's cause it fires a thermal blast. It's conditions could be different then the Excorist missile.

[Necrosis]

Quesiton, do you think I should make the Conflagrant Tank a fast attack or leave it as a heavy support?

[evil-the-crusade]

Well, since it is 99% sure this tant will move fowards... yes, you should take it as fast attack.

I know this will sound interested, but it is just to give you ideas, please do not take it as something bad; I'd like yo to take a look at my predator Crusader. You maybe would like to use the flamestorm incinerator ( rules taken from FW by the way).

Also, you could take a chance on the possibility of having it with side sponsons. I am suposing this is based on Rihno SCT.

I like your codex Ecclesiarchy, it is quite well structured, very well in fact. Bet you i'll try it with my friends shortly.

;) Keep up that great work!

[Necrosis]

The thing is I don't really want to add a predator in this army, cause it's going to make it to space marine like. I already have some units that resemble space marines to much. In fact I'm thinking of changing them a bit to make them different.

[kelterran]

Just a quick note. It strikes me that the Repressor and Immolator (Rhino armor, more powerful flamer on Immo, sorta different FOC slot) and the Immolater and Conflagrant Tanks (slightly better armor, maybe better flamer, same FOC slot) are very similar to each other. Perhaps you could make the Immolater into a Heavy Support item only and make it like the Conflagarant Tank with a Flamestorm cannon (or even a TL Flamestorm cannon) and then make your conflagarant tank more similar to a IG Punisher with a Vulkan Mega Bolter Cannon instead - although maybe less shots.

As another thought, if you want to really change up the Retributor squad in order to deal with the Heavy Flamer issue and to make them longer range, maybe make them similar to IG Heavy Weapon teams but they instead fire Vulkan Mega Bolters (less shots again). That would add a different element to your army than what you have.

[Melissia]

Of course they fit into the same relative purpose. But that's the problem you get into when you don't expand the fluff.

Also, some nitpicking:


"Inquisitorial Sisters" unit feels kinda silly to me. Is there a point to their abilities and fluff rules, that couldn't also be applied to the standard Sisters?

"Sisters Acolytes" are called Novitiates. Source is the Ciaphas Cain series.

[Faultie]

"Sisters Acolytes" are called Novitiates. Source is the Ciaphas Cain series.
Among several others. I believe the first Shira Calpurnia novel also used this term.

[Necrosis]

Inquisitorial Sisters are suppose to be sisters who serve on a blackship or an Inquisitor and are given special ammunition to take down psykers or other specific targets an Inquisitor might want eliminated. Sisters do serve with the Inquisition sometimes and thus I felt I could add them in. If I gave their rules to standard sisters then it would feel like I'm giving them rules for the sake of giving them rules even if it did make sense fluff wise.

Switch Acoltyes to Novitiates.

[Melissia]

Also, you're actually weakening the Sisters quite a bit by giving them Stubborn instead of the Book of Saint Lucius rule.

[Necrosis]

I know, that I did on purpose. Book of Saint Lucius seems way to good for 5 points. So I decide to give them something similar yet not as powerful.

[Melissia]

Then you should reduce the cost per model for Sisters.

The Book was never too good.

[Necrosis]

I don't understand why I should reduce the cost of your average sisters just for one upgrade which has been change a bit. The HQ also come with the book to.

[Melissia]

I don't understand why I should reduce the cost of your average sisters just for one upgrade which has been change a bit. The HQ also come with the book to.

Because the upgrade is one of the two reasons that Sisters don't completely suck like the Grey Knights do. You're making Sisters much more vulnerable to pinning, a nerf which they do not need and is completely and utterly unjustified in both fluff and balance, without giving them anything in return.

[Necrosis]

Well if your really worried about pinning then take a Cardinal. If you don't want to take a Cardinal then use Light of the Emperor to unpin (which I just added in). Or if none of those works then keep a Canoness close by.

[Melissia]

Irrelevant to my point. The nerf was unnecessary and quite frankly rather silly. Making nerfs or changes without a good reason does not make for a good codex. And nerfing an already weak army without giving anything in return is the epitome of bad design.

[Necrosis]

Oh yes, I gave them nothing in return. All squads now have stubborn, get a less expensive flamers and heavy flamer. They now have normal rhinos. The Canoness is even stronger then before. Hell even the Excorist tank is better now now since you give it a multi melta. The acts of faith are better but I guess none of those count. Oh yes this is a weak army.

[Melissia]

Oh yes, I gave them nothing in return.[/snip]

Stubborn is worse than the Book of Saint Lucius.

Less expensive special weapons are the norm for fifth edition codices, and your adjustments really only put them in line with C:IG (C:SM still has them for cheaper).

The rhino adjustment should have been made regardless, without this nerf (And besides, it's already in play with Forgeworld rules)

The Canoness should have been buffed without this nerf to begin with.

Acts of Faith were simplified, yes, but not necessarily made stronger per se. And this is something that should have been done anyway under the fifth edition concept of keeping things simplert han they were in second/third edition.

No, sir, you have not given the list anything that they shouldn't have already been given in the first place, you have adjusted the book to become similar to what a fifth edition codex might look like, but it still isn't really equivalent to the other fifth edition codices. They should have all of these things AND the book of Saint Lucius. And then more besides.

[Necrosis]

You actually think GW will keep Book of Saint Lucius the same way. No, they will change it to make it count as stubborn or hell they might even change it so it makes you fearless which many people think is worse then stubborn. That book was way to good for its point cost. The thing is now there are going to be more sisters on the battlefield. If you pin them somehow (which I rarely see pinning), they can just get out of it with the help of a Cardinal or Act of Faith and continue on as if it never happened. Stubborn may be weaker but it's still very good and a normal sister squad only pays 1 point for it instead of 5. Now 5 points may not seem like much but when you combine it with all the other less expensive stuff it does add up. Now you can keep ranting about how my codex sucks since sisters are just a tiny bit easier to pin now but in all honesty I don't think this that important. Seeing as I've offered so many ways around pinning.

Also not everyone takes Book of Saint Lucius, you'll probably call them idiot for not taking them but it's an option that you don't need to take and yet sisters are still the same point cost. Other people only give it to the Canoness and in my Codex the Canoness (and all the other HQ) comes with it.

[Melissia]

I don't know if they will. But that's irrelevant; I think they SHOULD, or keep an equivalent rule. It's not "too good" for its pricing cost. Many armies get far better rules for FREE.

[Necrosis]

But I've talk to many other people, including fellow sister players and they agree with me. So I'm going with the majority rules. I've also play tested this army and they seem to do pretty good. So until I see a major weakness I'm not going to change it.

So until then we will have to agree to disagree.

[Melissia]

And the majority can be wrong-- in this case, they are. A great deal of people don't understand Sisters to begin with, even many people who USE the army often do so abusively, whether or not it's intentional.

The nerf remains unnecessary and unjustified.


edit: I note you also nerfed Seraphim, too, which is also unjustified...

[Necrosis]

But guess who I play test agaisnt? The Majority. And if the Majority think my codex is broken then their not going to let me play test it. Also giving them the ability to take book might make other non sister units to powerfully and would make the Cardinal a uselss HQ. As the Cardinal is meant to help non sister units out.

[Melissia]

So what? The majority thought Blood Angels were broken. The majority thought Tyranids were broken. The majority thought Space Wolves were broken. The majority still thinks Imperial Guard is broken. The majority thought Space Marines were broken before that, too. Anything NEW that doesn't suck is going to be thought of as broken until the majority stops being stupid and gets used to it, and learns to adapt. Every new codex is accompanied by a horde of naysayers and doomcallers.

[Necrosis]

Yes but that was publish by GW. And when GW publish something players tend to accept it even though they think its broken. I on the other hand do not have that luxury. Thus when I make a codex I have to make it appear balanced.

[Melissia]

Which is something I couldn't give a **** about to begin with. You should set out to create a codex that fits in with the current edition's codices. Otherwise your project is worthless before you even start it in my eyes.

[Necrosis]

Tell whats the point of me making a codex if I can never play test cause everyone thinks its to broken? I believe it can handle the new codexs, I've played them and beaten them with this codex. I and ohters believe that my codex is on par with the new codexs.

Also your critizism could use some work. Instead of insulting the person work you could try to be a bit nicer about it. Or else you make the person go on the defensive. At which point they will no longer listen to what you have to say.

[Melissia]

What's the point of making a "safe" codex? The way you used "balanced" seemed to be equated with weak, mediocre, average, acceptable, and tame.

All of these descriptors are something not a single fifth edition codex has been. The Sisters and the Ecclesiarchy deserve more than just an acceptable codex. They deserve an AWESOME codex. We've waited for about a decade for it, it should be well worth the wait. Something which excites the reader, which makes people think "damn, I want to play THAT". A huge variety of options, both in units and in customizing the units, multitudes of playstyles and lots of powerful choices.

Fifth edition has brought us cheap terminators, awesome special characters which add dramatic army-changing special rules, 4 point guardsmen, leman russ squadrons, cheap artillery, journey of the world wolf, the doom of malan'tai, fast predators, and deep striking land raiders, amongst many other things which excited the wargaming public, got them interested in it. A new Sisters codex, fandex or official, should attempt to do the same.

Meh. I'll leave ya alone, now. I doubt we'll come to an agreement over this.

[Necrosis]

You can always critizes something else.

[Melissia]

All of my criticisms will come down to the same thing. You and I disagree on how strong the codex should be. You think it should be mediocre, tame, and acceptable... while I would prefer it be powerful, to get the same reactions out of people that the Blood Angels got, that the Space Wolves got, that the Imperial Guard got, and so on.

So... yeah. I don't think you really want me ranting constantly about this in your thread...

[Necrosis]

From my presetive you were saying that my codex ws underpowered due to the one rule (the book). In which case I disagreed. My entire argument was around that one point. Now if you said unit A was weak cause un it B from Codex C is this and this. Then I might agree with you.

[Melissia]

You were arguing that the Book of St. Lucius was too cheap (And therefor overpowered). That's what provoked my response.


The BoSL is not too cheap. It's too expensive. All veterans should have it by default.

[Necrosis]

You were arguing that the Book of St. Lucius was too cheap (And therefor overpowered). That's what provoked my response.


The BoSL is not too cheap. It's too expensive. All veterans should have it by default.

Alright give me an example of something similar happening to another army.

[Melissia]

I have a better idea. You try and give me an example of another army paying for its leadership rules in fifth edition. Tyranids get their synapse rules for free. Orks get their Mob Rule rules for free. Marines get their ATSKNF for free. Guard get Orders for free (voxcasters merely allow a re-roll). Daemons get fearless for free. No other army has HAD to have such a change made except for the Tau, whom have not had a fifth edition codex released for them and so they can't be an example anyway.

For that matter, Guard have actually GAINED in this area, Orders are completely new.

[Necrosis]

I have a better idea. You try and give me an example of another army paying for its leadership rules in fifth edition. Tyranids get their synapse rules for free. Orks get their Mob Rule rules for free. Marines get their ATSKNF for free. Guard get Orders for free (voxcasters merely allow a re-roll). Daemons get fearless for free. No other army has HAD to have such a change made except for the Tau, whom have not had a fifth edition codex released for them and so they can't be an example anyway.

For that matter, Guard have actually GAINED in this area, Orders are completely new.

I don't remeber these armiy rules back in the days of third edition (aside from Ork who had mob up instead). Did they have these rules back then?

[Melissia]

I don't have the the appropriate codices to check it. All I know is that it's ludicrous for a fifth edition force to pay for their leadership rules. Imagine if Marines had to pay five points for ATSKNF. Almost everyone would of course, it'd be mandatory-- just like it is with Sisters. Thus mandatory, it'd be a pointless upgrade and should instead be incorporated.

[Necrosis]

I have a better idea. You try and give me an example of another army paying for its leadership rules in fifth edition. Tyranids get their synapse rules for free. Orks get their Mob Rule rules for free. Marines get their ATSKNF for free. Guard get Orders for free (voxcasters merely allow a re-roll). Daemons get fearless for free. No other army has HAD to have such a change made except for the Tau, whom have not had a fifth edition codex released for them and so they can't be an example anyway.

For that matter, Guard have actually GAINED in this area, Orders are completely new.


I don't have the the appropriate codices to check it. All I know is that it's ludicrous for a fifth edition force to pay for their leadership rules. Imagine if Marines had to pay five points for ATSKNF. Almost everyone would of course, it'd be mandatory-- just like it is with Sisters. Thus mandatory, it'd be a pointless upgrade and should instead be incorporated.

Because of these two points I will change it.

[Necrosis]

I never gotten any feed back on any of the special characters I made. I would appreciate if a few people would give me comments or suggestions about them.

[Melissia]

I've never been very good at judging special characters except in terms of how easy they are to kill.

Mostly because Id on't use them.

[Necrosis]

Link to a basic PDF: http://www.mediafire.com/?zcnyyytjmxn
A better version will be coming out soon.

[Necrosis]

Full PDF is now available on the first post. Enjoy.

[Melissia]

By the way Necrosis, you should remove the "Hate" image pictured beneath the Repentia rules.

That's a fake Sister, as drawn by IronShrineMaiden. She had glowing red eyes in the original, and the Fleur de Lys is upside down...

THe one used in my avatar is a very heavily edited version of it, with the Fleur right side up, the scar removed, and relatively normal eyes.

[Gotthammer]

I felt it appropriate to be under the Repentia.

[Necrosis]

It just a picture. I'm sure there are far worse things.

[Melissia]

All I'm suggesting is you flip the Fleur.

[Necrosis]

I might be able to do that Goth if you send me the picture.

[Melissia]

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/epic/ironshrinemaiden/Just_as_planned____by_IronShrineMaiden.jpg

That's the original.

[Faultie]

Wow! Well done necrosis!

I haven't had a chance to cull through it and judge the units and construction, but it's obvious from looking at it that you put some good effort into it. Good job!

[Necrosis]

I can't take all the Credit. Gotthammer gave me a hand.

[Necrosis]

Errata has been added in. Cause it's not really a Codex if their isn't an Errata/FAQ, lol.