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Ole
04-13-2010, 04:56 PM
Not sure if this is the right place, but since I'll have to start somewhere...

I've got some IG models lying around here for quite some time now and I finally want to get around and start a small Guard army. As I don't really plan to play on tournaments or in too competitivly surroundings, I thought about an approach from the fluff-side of life.

As I've already got a nice Imperial Navy fleet for BFG, I'd like to have an IG army that somehow fits in. So I rummaged through some old White Dwarfs and finally found a small article about Imperial Navy crews sent ground-side to support local PDF's and the like.
I guess that the easiest way to get along with this background would be to use the IG codex and minis to represent Imperial Navy Armsmen. However, as things stand and as far as my background knowledge is concerned, I don't know if my skills (not to mention my time) are sufficient to convert them in a reasonable way.

So I'm currently thinking about the following background: A Guard regiment, trained to operate aboard starships (boarding enemy ships, defending Imperial ships) and to support local defense forces at remote planets (as an embarked regiment aboard a Navy ship is probably the first to arrive at such planets) or to keep small border worlds in line and remind them of the might of the Emperor (although the arrival of a Navy ship in orbit would probably enough to achieve this). So the regiment would be geared primarily for shipboard actions and secondary for operations on border worlds with a rather low tech level and/or against not so advanced enemies.

Game-/modelwise, such a background would necessitate some concessions I think - I've already figured out some of them, but maybe the cumulative knowledge here might help me find some more.

First of all there would be some weapon restrictions: The aforementioned White Dwarf article stated that aboard Navy ships only officers carry las-weapons, due to the risk of fire. So no las-weapons for anyone except officers. That also rules out flamers. Normal troops would have to do with auto-guns (anybody got an idea for conversions? So far I've gone with barrel and magazine swaps on lasguns) or where possible shotguns (seem to be quite popular for shipboard fighting).
Mortars probably wouldn't be very useful due to their trajectory.
Sniper rifles aren't very useful either I guess.
Personally I don't know about plasma weapons - I guess the risk of fire would apply to them too.
Meltas should be ok I think - short range, so no big risk there and great for cutting open bulkheads. Grenade launchers I also don't know about - I tend to keep them (after all, they don't generate very big explosions).
Demo charges are probably a bit too extreme.

As for units that I'd rule out:
Tanks of all kind - Should have some problems even aboard ships as big as Battleships, so I'd rule them out completely. Even Chimeras, as hard as that is.
Roughriders - Horses. On a ship. Yeah, I don't think so.

However, there are also some elements I'd really like to include (maybe not in every army list, but background wise):

Commissars - Definitely necessary. As many as viable. As Navy and Guard are normally strictly separated, somebody has to enforce this and to stop people fraternizing. And who else could that be?
Sentinels - small enough to be used for ship board actions and probably very useful for deployment on the ground.
Valkyries, Vultures, Vendettas, any kind of flyer I can afford - It's a starship, they should have flyers. And they might stand in for tanks.
Techpriests - plenty of them aboard a starship.
Priests - I think they should be present. Morale aboard has to be maintained somehow and distant border worlds might need preachers to remind them of their duty to the Emperor.
Psykers - I guess if everything goes downhill, the Guard might borrow some from the Navy. Under strict supervision of the Commissariate of course. And maybe they even got soem of their own.
Ogryns - there should be some aboard. After all, every captain can do with big, strong and dumb workers loading torpedoes etc. And they are probably dumb enough that the separation between navy and Guard personnel might be a bit relaxed where they are concerned.
Veterans - preferaby clad in carapace armour and armed with shotguns. Might represent either Guard veterans or squads of Navy armsmen who help in defending the ship.

Some options I'm however not so sure about/have no real opinion on:

Stormtroopers - I feel that carapace veterans might be the better option, but still I wouldn't rule them out completely.
Ratlings - Might be present aboard, but they would be only useful on the ground, won't they?
Conscripts - Could represent crewmen that are inducted to support the Guard, but that would conflict with the whole Navy/Guard separation.
Penal legion - Not really something speaking against them, but also not so much speaking for them I think. Might keep them in therefore.

Ffinally I'd thank all of you who took the time to read through this and ask for your opinions. Utter rubish? Great idea? Constructive critics? Destructive critics? And please, if there are some questions open, ask me - english is not my first language, so I'm not sure if I've always found the right words to convey my ideas.

Ole
04-14-2010, 06:37 PM
Hm, guess this is not the right place for such a topic - would it be better placed in the background board?

Anyway, continued working on the idea a bit and wrote a short summary about what I imagine the general background of a spaceborn regiment. Haven't given much thought about a specific regiment which my army might one day represent yet, but well I'm still trying to flesh out the idea in general. So here we go...

Spaceborn regiments

Spaceborn regiments were founded shortly after the Gothic war in an attempt to bolster the strength of the Imperial Navy without upsetting the delicate balance between Navy and Guard which exists since the Horus Heresy.

Founded as a Guard regiment and commanded by Guard officers, these units are nevertheless used in shipboard actions and are trained specifically for missions such as boarding enemy vessels and repelling enemy boarding parties. Furthermore such regiments are trained in air assaults, relying heavily on Navy support which is usually avaiable and used. Spaceborn regiments are commonly assigned to Imperial battlefleets and spread throughout the capital ships and space stations, augmenting and assisting the Navy armsmen aboard.

Furthermore they are often used for planetary relief missions, defending distant Imperial outposts or attacking enemy camps. Due to their stationing aboard a spaceship, a spaceborn regiment is often the first professional unit available in such remote locations which often have little to no PDF regiments and rely on local militia forces. Although their light equipment which is primarily geared towards shipboard actions and the absence of tanks means that their ability to engage in full-scale operations is severely limited, these regiments are nevertheless often able to defend their objective until heavier reinforcements arrive. especially when one considers that behind every spaceborne regiment stands the entire might of a ship of the Imperial Navy, including lance batteries, fighter wings and bomber squadrons.
Offensive actions however are rarely conducted by spaceborn regiments, although if push comes to shove they may be deployed via grav chutes and landing ships from orbit behind enemy lines or as reserve force in a particulary contested area.

But for all the assistance these regiments get from the Imperial Navy one must not forget that after all they are Guard units supervised and commanded by Guard officers. Nobody has forgotten the damage done during the Horus Heresy when not only Space Marines battled against their brothers but also Army officers went rogue and unleashed havoc with both the ships and the troops under their command. Ever since Guard and Navy have been seperated as to not allow this to happen again. Therefore spaceborne regiments are strictly controlled and under constant scrutiny of the watchful eyes of the Commissariate. Every regiment is assigned multiple commissars, all of them on the constant lookout for signs of fraternization between the ships crew and the regiments troops. Even minor infractions are harshly dealt with and those commissars that are assigned to spaceborn regiments have a reputation for strictness that is exceptional even for their kind.


As before, I'd be happy for any kind of feedback, even if it's just "Forget about it" (which I hope it won't be)

addamsfamily36
04-14-2010, 06:53 PM
nice ideas i like it.

stormtroopers fit in nicely as well they storm lol also they look awesome.

i personally think you've covered a lot of the points nicely. i have little to say other than nice idea :)

Tombworld
04-15-2010, 05:15 AM
If there's anything you Want to do, feel free to do it and modify the fluff. Having fun in the game is what counts, and whether the list is concordant with the fluff is up to you also.

You could say the crew are sabotage specialists; their job is to board enemy ships and wreck the thing from the inside, which would let you take pretty much anything you wanted. Demo-charges? Perfect for taking out vital systems like computer mainframes. Flamers? Great for taking out Tyrannid breeding sites. Ratlings? They're small and can crawl through airducts and the like. Penal Legion? We'll, when it's a one way mission, who better to use, right?

A lot of fun can be had deciding what you want, and THEN coming up with a theme that fits. It's just as valid as making a list to firt the theme.

As for a modelling and making this list, you have a great advantage in that black would be a reasonable main clour for these guys. The old IG codex had an orbital defence force colour scheme, and it was black with sort of codex grey armour. Very simple, and if you think about it, kinda makes sense.

Ole
04-15-2010, 07:50 AM
You're of course right, but I've got to say that thinking about the background of the army and wirting it down is actually something that I not only enjoy very much but something that helps me to motivate myself to get up and start painting/modelling. And actually the background I'm currently "using" pretty much allows me to take most units and weapons. I've gotta say that I do miss the opportunity to take the odd tank or flamer, but then again I think that if I start with a small army according to this background, I'll probably be more motivated to actually get started. And later on I could always paint some tanks, saying "Oh, this is a PDF regiment, which my spaceborn guys are currently assisting. And yeah, they've got a Leman Russ."

So after all, I guess I'll just flesh out the background a bit more and/or make a small list to start with. 750 points sounds about right to me, but then again I don't know about that, so any advice would be welcome.

Edit: Well, after thinking a bit and going through the net for a while, I got stuck at the upcoming IA8 and the Elysians. While I probably won't be able to afford the Forgeworld models, from all I could gather, the rules might fit in pretty perfect.

Ole
04-16-2010, 02:51 PM
Well, at the moment I'm sitting here, thinking about a small list of 750 pts that adheres to the background restrictions I laid out for myself and could form the core of a larger army. And honestly, I can't really think of something good. So far, I arrived at the following list, but I have no idea, if it's even remotely useful, so I'd really be happy about any suggestions you might have. As for opponents: in the beginning those would probably be Guard, Marines and Tyranids - others might follow later on. I know it's a rather wide field and without any specifics it's a question difficult to answer, but I could really use some help.
Anyway, that's what I've got so far:

750 pts Guard

HQ
Company Command, no upgrades = 50 pts
->should hide and give orders. Still thinking about upgrades, however I wouldn't know what exactly. Maybe vox casters for them and everyone else?

TROOPS
Platoon Commander, no upgrades = 30 pts
->hide and command.

2 Infantry Squads, each with Grenade launcher and Heavy Bolter = 2*50 pts
->some firepower. I like the Grenade Launcher (model- and fluff wise), however I'm not sure about it.

2 Infantry Squads, each with Grenade Launcher and Autocanon = 2*50 pts
->should take down light vehicles/transports

Veteran Squad with Grenadiers, 3* Meltagun, 6*Shotgun = 130 pts
->Ride in Valkyrie, take down tanks. Plus, fluffwise those guys fit in the theme.

FAST ATTACK
2 Scout Sentinels, each with Lascanon = 2*50 pts
->Some more anti tank firepower. However, probably a bit fragile and with only one shot and BS3 not very reliable.

Valkyrie, no upgrades = 100 pts
->should carry the veterans around and provide some more anti infantry firepower. However, might get shot down pretty fast, as there's not very much stuff with AV of any kind in the list.

So far that's 670 pts, so there's still some air left for upgrades and additional units. First one that came to my mind was a commissar, as he would fit with the overall theme, but even with those 35 points less, there would be many points left.

Tombworld
04-19-2010, 06:41 AM
Here would be my suggestions, purely in the order that I thought of them after the reading the post:

The Company Command squad is a great unit mainly for the fact that you have four individuals with BS4. This is rare in the IG, and should be made use of at any possible opportunity. In addition, if you want the squad to be issuing orders, one of the best units it can do that with is...itself! There are dozens of ways to equip this unit so you get the most of it, and it should never be left without some kind of 'pimping'.

A cheap but handy loadout is to give the guys 4 sniper rifles; these are incredibly cheap, and they can be very useful against a lot of enemy types, from monsters who's toughness will count for nothing, to standard troops who you can force pinning tests on. A bundle of Grenade launchers costs the same, and can make them moderately effective against troops or light vehicles, as well as keep them mobile (GLS are assault weapons). I like loading my CCS with melats and sticking 'em in a valkyrie alongside a similarly outfitted Veterans squad. 4 melta guns at BS 4 is enough to make anything sweat, but when you factor in the fact they can issue orders like 'bring it down!' to themselves and the vet squad with meltas...well, it gets messy for the enemies 'big stuff'

And mentioning Valks, I never leave mine without their Multiple rocket pods. The default wing weapons are pretty awfull, but MRP's have proved to be surprisingly useful on more than one occasion. Even against MeQ's, they can encompass the whole enemy squad and force a lot of saves. Two large blast templates for the points they cost is a bargain, and the fact they're STR4 means you can move the valk it's full distance and still fire 'em off. There is guarateed to be a target no matter what army your facing against which MRP's will be usefull.

The Platoon Command Squad is also something that should be used to its full effect. Again, even if you just fill 'em up with sniper rifles or GL's, they can make their presence felt, and for the meagre cost it takes to do that, there's little reason not to make them at least halfway usefu to the fightl, as opposed to almost useless. Yeah, Orders can be helpful, but I cannot envision them ever REALLY tipping the scales of a battle. They'll hopefully help you implement a plan, but the Command squads can be very handy in their own right. I've also loaded these guys up with Meltas and stuck 'em in a Valk before; again, that's 4 meltaguns (Ok, BS3, but still), for 70 points. Who else can field that?

As for the troops; those are great loadouts. the cheap upgrades do make a lot of difference to their effectiveness, and Heavy bolters or autocannons let you have multiple shots which negates the guard's mediocre BS to a degree.

Sentinels w/las cannons? Not a bad choice, I just can never quite pick sents over other options in the codex. And you're only a few point shy of a Vendetta, and Vendettas. Are. Awesome! If you want some lascannon power, try to include one of these and keep a few things in mind;

They're asingle big target, and fairly fragile, so Keep your Vendeta out of distance of enemy retaliation. You have that fantastic range, so use it!
Use your scout move after the setup and everything to get a 4+ cover save on your first turn, just in case. You can still fire all you weapons on turn one.
Employ the vendetta as a gunship; don't PLAN on using the transport capacity 'cos you're mixing roles and the vendetta can only move up to 6" and fire eveything. However, if it gets to the end of the game, if you're vendetta's survived you've probably cause some massive damage to any viable targets, so keep in mind that at this point, it may serve its purpose as a transport in an emergency.

Phew! Just remember to make the most of your assets, there are some great, cheap ways to make pretty much anything you can field into a handy unit, so it's well worth doing just that! And good luck!

Ole
04-19-2010, 09:31 AM
First of all, thanks for your help. It really helped a lot and allowed me to get some ideas. I've tried to incorporate most of your suggestions, however I couldn't manage to squeeze all of them in the list.

So here's the updated list...

HQ
CCS, 4 meltaguns = 90 pts
->orders, big game hunting, tank busting

TROOPS
Infantry Platoon = 300 pts
PCS, 4 Grenade launchers
->couldn't fit in Melta guns, so I went for the next best thing (and I should have some GLs bits left over - definitly a bonus).

2 Infantry Squads, each with Grenade launcher and Heavy Bolter
->some firepower. I like the Grenade Launcher (model- and fluff wise), however I'm not sure about it.

2 Infantry Squads, each with Autocanon
->should take down light vehicles/transports. Had to kick out the GLs to cut the points.

Veteran Squad with Grenadiers, 3* Meltagun, 6*Shotgun = 130 pts
->Ride in Valkyrie, take down tanks. Plus, fluffwise those guys fit in the theme.

FAST ATTACK
2 Scout Sentinels, each with Lascanon = 2*50 pts
->Some more anti tank firepower. However, probably a bit fragile and with only one shot and BS3 not very reliable. I'd love to swap them for a Vendetta, but a)it doesn't fit point wise and b)I feel for the beginning I should limit myself to buying one Valkyrie/Vendetta model... those are expensive :( And I still have two Sentinels standing around here (although they need a new paint job)

Valkyrie, Multiple Rocket Pods = 130 pts
->should carry the veterans around and provide some more anti infantry firepower. However, might get shot down pretty fast, as there's not very much stuff with AV of any kind in the list. Now with MRPs added