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View Full Version : New 40k Player needs list building tips!



RampageRabbit
04-14-2010, 10:44 AM
Here is my situation: I currently own the Assault on Black Reach Starter so I have all the models in that box, and I'm looking to build one of those into a full fledged army. I also went ahead and bought the Marine Codex when I got the starter because I was 90% sure I was going to do marines, well that was almost a year ago now and I'm starting to look a little more at Orks.My question to all of you 40k pros out there, is where should I go from here for either army?

Allow me to be a little more specific on what I'm looking for. I'm still leaning towards Marines, since I have their Codex and have looked everything in it through time and time again. If I play Marines, I would like to have an emphasis on being Shootier rather than Assaultier. I have some ideas on how to do this based on what I've read in the Codex but I have this distinct feeling that a lot of what seems really effective in the Codex might not translate so well to actual battle(Whirlwind, Thunderfire Cannon, Scouts with Sniper Rifles) so I need some more experienced players guide my hand a bit.

With Orks? I have no clue. I'll take any advice I can get.

Thanks in Advance for any suggestions!

addamsfamily36
04-14-2010, 11:02 AM
Personally i liked themed army lists so write my army lists that way, but i have written and used some very balanced lists in the past, and in my opinion balance is the key.

there are 3 main types of army

combat
shooting
and a mixture of the two

(there ahs jsut been a post about lists for beginners part 1 of about 4 i think it should still be on the BOLS main front page, i'd take a look at that)

but for now if you want to go shooty with your marines then it depends on how you want to play. close up shooting or ranged attack or a mixture of the two.

DEVASTATORS - great long ranged heavy fire power. some people like to max out and tak 4 plasma cannons, 4 lascannons, 4 heavy bolters etc. (this can be good as you can have 4 lascannon shots at a tank and well that tank is almost garunteed to be bye bye. but face an all infantry army and well not so good) so a mixture can be good, unless u take two squads one for anti tank one for anti infantry.

Whirlwind - for me they can be hit or miss but again great long range firepower.

Now these are units which you might not own if you only have black reach. based on what you get in black reach:

dreadnoughts - good armor moving weapons platforms in effects. fitted out with all manner of weapons options these can be great.

tactical squads - can take heavy weapons but remember they will limit the movement of your troops (so it depends on if you want to claim objectives with them or not)

scout snipers - can be good sniper weaponry as a whole can be poor to amazing.

if you are going for close ranged fire such as rapid shooting boltguns etc take assault weapons like melta guns or flamers on your tactical marines.



Based on the black reach box i would take a marine army similar to this as a starter:

HQ - librarian or captain

captain - powersword, iron halo , other equipment that you see fit to take (dotn waste huge amount of points on him though)

librarian - comes with a force weapon (i think) and take shooting psychic powers unless you want atleast one combat HQ then i would give him Might of heroes or similar.


Troops

10 Tactical Marines including sergeant - Heavy bolter, Rhino transport

10 tactical marines including sergeant - missile launcher

10 tactical marines including sergeant - missile launcer or lascannon (i think you can take las cannons)



elites

Dread - assault cannon


Heavy support

Predator - lascannon turret, with heavy bolter side sponsons

Devastator squad - options as you want

just a rough list i dont know what poitns range your playign at or if you have anythgn additional to black reach but this uses eveything but the terminators.

RampageRabbit
04-14-2010, 11:23 AM
I actually posted this just after reading the BolS article. I really wish the other 3 were up already! I'm so eager to learn and unfortunately (for me anyway) the best way is through playing and I'm in an area with an almost nonexistent 40k community.


As for your questions, I'd like to have a mix of short ranged and long ranged fire power. I was thinking taking some long range fire support units to soften up advancing armies and some short ranged Tact squads to hold objectives and pewpew once they're sitting on them. Would you personally recommend taking one squad of Devastators kitted out to be a mixture of Anti-Personnel and Anti-armor or two squads who both specialized in one aspect. I suppose I could also do one group with mixed and split them into combat squads. Would that work?

I really like the look and feel of the Scouts, and I was thinking(Disclaimer:I don't know how viable this actually is) that I would use them to slow advances by attempting to pin the biggest advancing threat. Of course if lots of people ride around in transports that's not all too viable I suppose.

Should I take flamers on some of those Tact squads you listed? Since iirc you can take 10 marines and get one free.

addamsfamily36
04-14-2010, 11:29 AM
i would tke a 10 man devastator squad, with two lascannons and two heavy bolters or plasma cannons. i would then split them up into combat squads. the other 6 members all have boltguns obviosuly and are there to be killed off one by one.

i would definetly take tactical marines with flamers for objective takers. reasons being any objectives in cover, if there is already an enemy unit in that terrain, you can flame them and they dont get the cover save bonus as its a flamer ( atleast i think thats right, check anything i say as i dont have any rule books to hand and i play more fantasy these days)

if you like scouts take them is my answer to that one. i often take units cause i like them.

Melissia
04-14-2010, 11:48 AM
For Orks, what theme do you want? There's quite a few builds. Da WAAAGH! forum might be better for you.
http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/


But first, I would reccomend you decide either mechanized or footslogging first and foremost. Once you do that, I can get a list out for you. Footslogging Orks can pack tons of Boyz in a remarkably low amount of points (~1400 points for around 180 models), but are of course somewhat slow and somewhat lacking anti-tank outside of assault; it's referred to as Green Tide. Mechanized Orks are fast and furious,but less sturdy; referred to as Speed Freaks

addamsfamily36
04-14-2010, 01:55 PM
ah you have melissia at your service. i would take alot of her advice on board, contributed the most posts out of anyone on the forums, is fair and polite so far from my experience on BOLS so yeh you won't go wrong taking advice from her :D

RampageRabbit
04-14-2010, 02:06 PM
I've been forum lurking on the website she gave me for about an hour now. I'm still kind of unsure about Orks. Their insane number of CC attacks on the charge makes it kind of appealing for me to try them out, but every time my friends and I have tried the starter as is and I elect to play Orks all those attacks seem to amount to very little. I'm probably playing them wrong though.

As far as Points go, I'm going to slowly work myself up to 1500 for now. I'm a little tight on money atm so It'll probably be a somewhat slow progression but I really want to get into the hobby. I think I'm going to stick with Marines till I can learn more or get my hands on the Ork Codex somehow.

Melissia
04-14-2010, 02:30 PM
That's because the starter list, and the rules for the starter set (I'm assuming you refer to Assault On Black Reach) are biased towards Marines. There's actually more points of Marines in that set than there are Orks, and the Orks have certain core rules removed or altered in AoBR that negatively effect them, at least last I checked.

Lord Azaghul
04-14-2010, 02:31 PM
I've been forum lurking on the website she gave me for about an hour now. I'm still kind of unsure about Orks. Their insane number of CC attacks on the charge makes it kind of appealing for me to try them out, but every time my friends and I have tried the starter as is and I elect to play Orks all those attacks seem to amount to very little. I'm probably playing them wrong though.
.


One of the problems with orks vs SM is the low Initiave of Orks, SM with powerweapons cause all sorts of problems for Orks. However, you start to throw in some powerclaws, and some some mega nobs those orks have a far bit more bite!

A friend of mine likes to run his boys in trukks, lots of 12 ork squads in 13" moving trukks is pretty awesome!

addamsfamily36
04-14-2010, 02:39 PM
I'm a little tight on money atm

Yeh you and me both buddy lol im trying to save up to revamp my blood angels army so that its shiny and new unlike the falling apart army i have currently stashed away :(

i would say stick with the marines to start out, as probably will be cheaper to get you going as orks can either be a bit of a horde army or mech heavy both of which will cost a fair bit.

if you want a codex your best bet is ebay, but for general across the board discount check out wayland games:

http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/games-workshop/warhammer-40k/cat_4.html

hope that helps.

P.s if you buy from there buy in bulk, as you'll need to pay postage

RampageRabbit
04-14-2010, 04:03 PM
A friend of mine recently showed me Wayland actually. The funny thing is that even though I live in the US and they're based in the UK it's still cheaper to buy from them than to buy from GW even with Airmail and exchange rate factored in. A battleforce from them will cost me around $65 but if I buy from GW it STARTS at $90. Looks like I know who will be getting my business.

You're right Melissia, A friend of mine who unfortunately doesn't live around me but is also interested in the hobby sent me a pdf of the Ork Codex and it seems the starter box would have you play without some of their more crucial rules: Mob Psychology and calling a Waagh! and from experience the BS of 2 makes killing the Dread with Deffkoptas really hard, despite the fact that most SM firepower can bring down the koptas. I still can't deny that there's some charm to the cockney accented greenskins though. I think after reading a bit I'd probably try and do footslogging Orks, if I did Orks. Maybe they'll be my next army.

I'm going to go and see what I can fit into 1000 points and I'll bring it back here and post it and I'd like some advice/criticism on what should stay/go and what would be effective etc.

Thanks to all of you for the help you've given so far. I've never had such an immediate outpouring of help on any other forum I've ever been on for any of my hobbies. Bols certainly has made me feel welcome.

codiddy
04-14-2010, 04:36 PM
A few things that i feel should be clarified, don't want to confuse the beginner!!



tactical squads - can take heavy weapons but remember they will limit the movement of your troops (so it depends on if you want to claim objectives with them or not)

the heavy weapon won't actually slow the squad down, but can only be shot if the squad remains stationary.


scout snipers - can be good sniper weaponry as a whole can be poor to amazing.
where sniper rifles really shine is against very high toughness creatures, since they'll wound anything on a 4+. If you're facing a lot of Monstrous Creatures they are great. Also the pinning can help keep larger squads from advancing for at least a round


if you are going for close ranged fire such as rapid shooting boltguns etc take assault weapons like melta guns or flamers on your tactical marines.
keep in mind you can't assault if you rapid fire






Troops

10 Tactical Marines including sergeant - Heavy bolter, Rhino transport

10 tactical marines including sergeant - missile launcher

10 tactical marines including sergeant - missile launcer or lascannon (i think you can take las cannons)

since its free, you should almost always take the flamer and a Missile Launcher/Heavy Bolter/ Multi-Melta



As far as the devastators go, unless you plan on combat squadding them you should pick either an anti-infantry or anti-vehicle role and stick with it. a heavy bolter is useless against av12 and a lascannon will be almost useless against a horde of orks. Also don't treat the sergeant as just another guy with a bolter. He has a signum which can allow one of the heavy weapons to hit on a 2+


Edit: if you're looking to start an army (relatively) inexpensively, I recommend space marines. 170 points of space marines is gonna cost you $35 while 180 points of ork boyz will set you back $66

addamsfamily36
04-14-2010, 04:41 PM
excellent follow up points from my post earlier coddidy. i thankyou, i was a bit rushed for time earlier as was popping out. :)

addamsfamily36
04-15-2010, 04:27 AM
Anyone know what the last post was bout? (besides being a link to the definition of buisness) lol

Lord Azaghul
04-15-2010, 06:54 AM
Its spam. I've just reported it.


OT:

I started this game with IG, and that's an expensive start up.

I just finished buying my 2nd army: space marines - way cheaper to pick up, in no time I have an easy 2k in points. Make sure you check out a few online retailers, most can get you 20% off to help stretch you're cash.

RampageRabbit
04-15-2010, 03:03 PM
For a 1000 point game about how many scoring units do I want? I figured I'd want more than two since if they die I'm dead in the water. Also how prevalent do you think heavier armor would be at that point range? I'm trying to fit stuff in a list that can deal with everything reasonably well.

Melissia
04-17-2010, 05:59 PM
I think after reading a bit I'd probably try and do footslogging Orks, if I did Orks. Maybe they'll be my next army.
A quick sample list for footslogging Orks at 1k.


HQ:
Big Mek: Power Klaw, Kustom Force Field, Cybork Body
Big Mek: Power Klaw, Kustom Force Field, Cybork Body

Troops:
Slugga Boyz Squad: 24 Sluggas, 2 Big Shootas
-- Nob w/Power Klaw, Bosspole, 'Eavy Armor
Slugga Boyz Squad: 24 Sluggas, 2 Big Shootas
-- Nob w/Power Klaw, Bosspole, 'Eavy Armor
Shoota Boyz Squad: 19 Shootas, 2 Big Shootas
-- Nob w/Big Choppa, Bosspole
Deff Dread: 3 DCCW, Skorcha, Grot Rigger
Deff Dread: 3 DCCW, Skorcha, Grot Rigger

Not the greatest list out there, but it's very doable. The Kustom Force Fields will greatly help the Deff Dreads survive, and certainly won't hurt the Boyz either, as all of the squads are able to be covered by the two Big Meks. Depending on the situation and the game, the Shoota Boyz might be best used firing from behind cover on a home objective.

RampageRabbit
04-18-2010, 08:54 PM
Thanks for the Ork list! I finally got around to making my 1k Space marine list and I'm really not sure how it came out but here it is:

HQ
Captain: Power Sword, Digital Weapons

Troops
Tactical Squad 1: 10 Marines, Flamer, Missile Launcher, Teleport Homers, Sergeant with Chainsword, Rhino

Tactical Squad 2: 10 marines, Flamer, Missile Launcher, Teleport Homers, Sergeant with Powerfist, Rhino

Elites
Terminator Squad: 5 Terminators no upgrades

Dreadnought: CCW, Multimelta, Stormbolter

Heavy Support
Predator: Heavy Bolter Sponsons and Twin-Linked Lascannon upgrade

Ok, now let me explain what I was thinking with this.
- First off I was trying to use models that I already had in my possession thanks to having the 40k Boxed Starter, and I already have Tactical Squad 1, the Terminators, the Dreadnought and the HQ.I'd rather use them if at all possible with the exception of the HQ who I'm not attached to at all.

-I figured the Tactical Squads I'd use to shuttle towards objectives, so that they could sit on them and not die(hopefully). I gave them Flamers because they were free and I figured would be good at clearing people off of objectives and Missile Launchers since once they were camped out they could take potshots at any annoying armor and they're also free. The homers are there so that I can deepstrike my Terminators and make it more probable that they'll land where I want them to be.

-I took the Terminators primarily as anti-infantry and I was planning on deepstriking them wherever there was the most need to put down some infantry, but I was also thinking that if need be I could re-purpose them to be anti-vehicle since I think they can do that in assault, though obviously not as well as Assault Terminators.

-Dreadnought is going to be my main form of Anti-Armor, since with the Multi-Melta and being kind of decent in assault as well(I think) it seems like it would be perfect for that and I already have the model. I think this could also be re-purposed to be anti-infantry should the need arise as well, thanks to the built in storm bolter and what I think it's assault capabilities are.

-The Predator, I was kind of unsure about. I wanted it to play both roles as well, Twin-Linked Lascannons theoretically means anti-armor power and the Heavy Bolter Sponsons could provide some nice Anti-Infantry firepower. It seems to me like I should make it all or nothing though and assign it one specific role rather than have it ride the fence so to speak.

-I'm not sure what to do with the captain, I have his model already but I don't think he's a very good fit for this list. He's more assaulty whereas I want a more shooty army and I don't think he synergizes well. I'm really looking for a better option here.

-If my math is correct(and it may not be) this brings me to about 825 points which leaves me with 175 to do something with. I have no idea whatsoever to do with those points. Whirlwind maybe? More Tactical Squads? Could I try scouts? Any advice is welcome!

RampageRabbit
04-21-2010, 05:28 PM
Surely my attempts to make an ok 1k list aren't so horrid that no one wants to comment. At least I hope so!

Melissia
04-21-2010, 07:48 PM
I'd comment, but Marine lists kinda make me feel apathetic most of the time; they're just not my thing.

RampageRabbit
04-23-2010, 08:49 AM
You already handed a basic Ork list to me on a silver platter and I'm really thankful for that, but if you didn't want to discuss SMs I'd be interested in hearing any info based on personal experience you have about Orks or just the game in general! Really, I read forums as much as I can but any information from more experienced players is worthwhile to me.