Blood angels from the sky

[B-rock]

mephiston
3 priest
4 assualt 9 man unit with melta in pods
2 ferioso dreadnought with talons in pods
landspeeder 2xmulti-melta
landspeeder 2xmulti-melta
baal with assualt cannon and heavy and extra Armour
=1850 list

in this list i am using the drop pod assault special real.
i will get 3 pods on turn one.
three of the pods haves a homer for the land speeders to use
the land speeders are separate units and used to kill tanks
i gave the assault marines meltas to shoot tanks.
the baal is outflanking

am i required to deploy anything ?

if you have any thoughts or tips for the list post plz.

i am still trying to decide which 3 units to pod in on turn one

do the assault marines scatter 2d6 or 1d6 because they have descent of angels?

[MC Tic Tac]

You may keep as much or as little in resevre as you like.

As for the Assault marines in a drop pod. Desent of Angels says Jump packs, so it won't work with a pod, but there again with a pod you are unlikey to have a nasty accident anyway.

[Gooball]

Blood angels from the sky..
With diamonds...
Of Fiery Wrath!
Super cookie if you get the reference.. (Guessing noone gets it)
Wasn't their a thread where there was debate as to whether Descent of angels worked on drop pods? Cos i think it was only in the fluff section that it said anything about jump packs

[B-rock]

Blood angels from the sky..
With diamonds...
Of Fiery Wrath!
Super cookie if you get the reference.. (Guessing noone gets it)
Wasn't their a thread where there was debate as to whether Descent of angels worked on drop pods? Cos i think it was only in the fluff section that it said anything about jump packs

i am sorry i just joined the BoLs forums and sorry i didnt see that thread
ok so they are still better in pods i have 230 pts to spend i forgot the discount on the pods from the assault marines

[Duke]

Drop pods, and other dedicated transports, do not get to use the Decent of Angels special rule.

The reason has nothing to do with Jump Packs... The portion of the DoA entry that references jump pack is the fluff portion and we can't base ruling off fluff.

Drop Pods and Land Raiders can't use DoA simply because they are the unit that is deep striking, not the embarked assault squad. Because the unit deepstriking doesn't have the rule they can't use it, even though the embarked unit does. Now if the assault marines put on jump packs they now have the DOA rule and could use it (Or any unit that puts on a jump pack as per the jump pack rules.)

Duke

[Image]

Drop pods, and other dedicated transports, do not get to use the Decent of Angels special rule.

The reason has nothing to do with Jump Packs... The portion of the DoA entry that references jump pack is the fluff portion and we can't base ruling off fluff.

Drop Pods and Land Raiders can't use DoA simply because they are the unit that is deep striking, not the embarked assault squad. Because the unit deepstriking doesn't have the rule they can't use it, even though the embarked unit does. Now if the assault marines put on jump packs they now have the DOA rule and could use it (Or any unit that puts on a jump pack as per the jump pack rules.)

Duke

While I agree with you, Duke, some food for thought might include considering a squad with scout entering a dedicated transport and allowing the transport to benefit from that rule.

[B-rock]

i agree with the scout and transport example
i rely dont know FAQ gw!

[pgarfunkle]

While I agree with you, Duke, some food for thought might include considering a squad with scout entering a dedicated transport and allowing the transport to benefit from that rule.

In that example however the Scout USR explains that a unit with the rule confers it on a dedicated transport. Descent of Angels mentions no such benefit

[Tynskel]

While I agree with you, Duke, some food for thought might include considering a squad with scout entering a dedicated transport and allowing the transport to benefit from that rule.

The main rulebook EXPLICITLY states that scouts is conferred to the Dedicated Transport-- nothing else. p.76

The Descent of Angels rule states: "Other units in the Blood Angels army that can arrive by Deep Strike do so using the normal rules." p. 23 Codex Blood Angels

The Drop Pod bought for an Assault Squad is an 'other unit'. The Drop Pod is a completely separate unit. The Descent of Angels Rule SPECIFICALLY addresses these units!

I don't understand how people keep saying that Dedicated Transports get DoA!!! Especially since the Codex Blood Angels says no!

[Tynskel]

As for your list:

How do you plan on using Mephiston?

He doesn't get to deep strike (cannot activate Psychic Powers from off the board)-- do you just have him walk on from a board edge?

[Tynskel]

Also

Your points are all wonk.

You only made it to 1768
HQ 250
250 Mephiston
Lord of Death

ELITES 470
160 Furioso
Dread, Blood Talons
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod
160 Furioso
Dread, Blood Talons
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod
150 Sanguinary Priesthood
3 Priests

TROOPS 728
182 Assault Squad
9 Marines, Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod
182 Assault Squad
9 Marines, Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod
182 Assault Squad
9 Marines, Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod
182 Assault Squad
9 Marines, Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod

FAST ATTACK 320
80 Land Speeder
2 Multi-Meltas
80 Land Speeder
2 Multi-Meltas
160 Baal Predator
Tank, Hv Bolter Sponsons, Extra Armor

Here is a suggestion-- if you are going all drop army, and taking Mephiston- take a stormraven- this will deliver Mephiston. Also, Assault squads set up the way you have them, for a lack of a better word, suck. The Advantage of the Furious Charge is to have power weapons hacking apart marines and their equivalents.

HQ 250
250 Mephiston
Lord of Death

ELITES 235
135 Furioso
Dread, Blood Talons, Hv Flamer
100 Sanguinary Priesthood
2 Priests

TROOPS 810
145 Assault Squad
5 Marines, 2 Hand Flamers, Power Weapon
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon
145 Assault Squad
5 Marines, 2 Hand Flamers, Power Weapon
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon
260 Assault Squad
10 Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Powerfist, Infernus Pistol
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon
260 Assault Squad
10 Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Powerfist, Infernus Pistol
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon

FAST ATTACK 145
145 Baal Predator
Tank, Hv Bolter Sponsons

Hv SUPPORT 410
245 Stormraven
Twin-Linked Multi-Melta, Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Extra Armor, Hurricane Patter Bolters
165 Mortis Dreadnought
Dread, 2 Twin-Linked Autocannons
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon

Now this list is completely in reserves:
5 Drop Pods-- this allows three to come in on turn 1: Probably the Mortis and two others. The Mortis is your transport buster, it can hang back safely! The two other drop pods will be situational. All the pods have locator beacons, so you can safely deep strike the Stormraven! In the Stormraven is Mephiston and the Furioso- this is a great way to deliver both of them- pretty much WILL get to charge and not get shot the turn you arrive. The Stormraven will probably get shot to all hell, oh well- as long as Mephiston and the Furioso are delivered, the stormraven did its job!

[B-rock]

As for your list:

How do you plan on using Mephiston?

He doesn't get to deep strike (cannot activate Psychic Powers from off the board)-- do you just have him walk on from a board edge?
can he not come down in a drop pod with the one assault unit wiht out a priest

[B-rock]

Also

Your points are all wonk.

You only made it to 1768
HQ 250
250 Mephiston
Lord of Death

ELITES 470
160 Furioso
Dread, Blood Talons
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod
160 Furioso
Dread, Blood Talons
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod
150 Sanguinary Priesthood
3 Priests

TROOPS 728
182 Assault Squad
9 Marines, Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod
182 Assault Squad
9 Marines, Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod
182 Assault Squad
9 Marines, Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod
182 Assault Squad
9 Marines, Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod

FAST ATTACK 320
80 Land Speeder
2 Multi-Meltas
80 Land Speeder
2 Multi-Meltas
160 Baal Predator
Tank, Hv Bolter Sponsons, Extra Armor

Here is a suggestion-- if you are going all drop army, and taking Mephiston- take a stormraven- this will deliver Mephiston. Also, Assault squads set up the way you have them, for a lack of a better word, suck. The Advantage of the Furious Charge is to have power weapons hacking apart marines and their equivalents.

HQ 250
250 Mephiston
Lord of Death

ELITES 235
135 Furioso
Dread, Blood Talons, Hv Flamer
100 Sanguinary Priesthood
2 Priests

TROOPS 810
145 Assault Squad
5 Marines, 2 Hand Flamers, Power Weapon
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon
145 Assault Squad
5 Marines, 2 Hand Flamers, Power Weapon
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon
260 Assault Squad
10 Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Powerfist, Infernus Pistol
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon
260 Assault Squad
10 Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Powerfist, Infernus Pistol
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon

FAST ATTACK 145
145 Baal Predator
Tank, Hv Bolter Sponsons

Hv SUPPORT 410
245 Stormraven
Twin-Linked Multi-Melta, Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Extra Armor, Hurricane Patter Bolters
165 Mortis Dreadnought
Dread, 2 Twin-Linked Autocannons
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon

Now this list is completely in reserves:
5 Drop Pods-- this allows three to come in on turn 1: Probably the Mortis and two others. The Mortis is your transport buster, it can hang back safely! The two other drop pods will be situational. All the pods have locator beacons, so you can safely deep strike the Stormraven! In the Stormraven is Mephiston and the Furioso- this is a great way to deliver both of them- pretty much WILL get to charge and not get shot the turn you arrive. The Stormraven will probably get shot to all hell, oh well- as long as Mephiston and the Furioso are delivered, the stormraven did its job!
i am sorry i have not had time with the codex but if you can lead me in the right path i would ty

[B-rock]

how do you actually set up assault marine units

[Tynskel]

how do you actually set up assault marine units

Read page 81 of the blood angels codex.

maybe I am confused by your statement...

Warhammer is playing with different styles and ideas. Obviously, your list has the idea of having a deep striking army. Lighting Assault-- direct from the ship in orbit.

Go with that idea! All I did with your list is flush it out-- I didn't want to take away the theme you had--- so I tried to stick with as many drop pods as possible. However, I knew you wanted Mephiston in there too. Mephiston's rules dictate that he cannot join squads, so he cannot ride in a drop pod with other units. So, in keeping with your theme, I flushed out the army, and threw in the stormraven so Mephiston now fits the theme--- all deep striking from an orbiting cruiser.

[B-rock]

Read page 81 of the blood angels codex.
i did and how i was doing is not wrong like how do they suck that way i am not arguing i just want you to explain so i can do it better

[Tynskel]

ah!

Okay-- let's compare two squads:

182 Assault Squad
9 Marines, Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod

Your setup is a close combat squad with an anti-tank weapon. Lots of men. However, if the transport comes around, there is not so much of a chance that the transport is busted, allowing your unit to charge the opponent.

260 Assault Squad
10 Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Powerfist, Infernus Pistol
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon

This squad is, once again, a close combat squad-- but well equipped for anti-transport duty-- with three melta weapons, there is a high chance of a successful destruction of a transport- allowing your guys to then assault the guys that are bailing out. However, if you fail at the destruction of the transport, there is the backup powerfist, giving yourself more chances of destroying such a transport. There are also more tactical options for the squad--- at 10 Marines, the squad can use 'Combat Squads' after disembarking. With 3 meltas, the squad could split into 2 squads and fire meltas at two targets, instead of one.

Does the second squad cost a lot more- yes. However, the second squad will be more successful at its duties.

Now there's also the Locator Beacon on the Pod-- this is mostly for ensuring that the Stormraven lands nearby without scattering, safely bringing Mephiston into the middle of the action. Mephiston's one weakness is being able to reach an opponent before being annihilated-- by throwing the locator beacons on all the pods, there is redundancy in safe approach for the stormraven, just like having 2 more meltas in the assault squad adds redundancy to it's anti-tank role.

Most successful armies in 40k not only have cool themes, like yours, but also have a cohesion built within the army-- Mephiston doesn't work by himself, he works with the Dreadnought backing him up. The 10 Man Assault Squad busts the tanks, and the 5 man assault squad, with the priest, backs up the 10 man squad with anti-horde duty. The list I created has your army split into a series of pairs that compliment each other.

You can also look at point breakdown. the 5 man assault squad plus the 10 man assault squad is only 40 points more per group- for 40 points, you have a much much more effective duo than if you used 2 squads from your list.

[B-rock]

ah!

Okay-- let's compare two squads:

182 Assault Squad
9 Marines, Meltagun
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod

Your setup is a close combat squad with an anti-tank weapon. Lots of men. However, if the transport comes around, there is not so much of a chance that the transport is busted, allowing your unit to charge the opponent.

260 Assault Squad
10 Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Powerfist, Infernus Pistol
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod with Locator Beacon

This squad is, once again, a close combat squad-- but well equipped for anti-transport duty-- with three melta weapons, there is a high chance of a successful destruction of a transport- allowing your guys to then assault the guys that are bailing out. However, if you fail at the destruction of the transport, there is the backup powerfist, giving yourself more chances of destroying such a transport. There are also more tactical options for the squad--- at 10 Marines, the squad can use 'Combat Squads' after disembarking. With 3 meltas, the squad could split into 2 squads and fire meltas at two targets, instead of one.

Does the second squad cost a lot more- yes. However, the second squad will be more successful at its duties.

Now there's also the Locator Beacon on the Pod-- this is mostly for ensuring that the Stormraven lands nearby without scattering, safely bringing Mephiston into the middle of the action. Mephiston's one weakness is being able to reach an opponent before being annihilated-- by throwing the locator beacons on all the pods, there is redundancy in safe approach for the stormraven, just like having 2 more meltas in the assault squad adds redundancy to it's anti-tank role.

Most successful armies in 40k not only have cool themes, like yours, but also have a cohesion built within the army-- Mephiston doesn't work by himself, he works with the Dreadnought backing him up. The 10 Man Assault Squad busts the tanks, and the 5 man assault squad, with the priest, backs up the 10 man squad with anti-horde duty. The list I created has your army split into a series of pairs that compliment each other.

You can also look at point breakdown. the 5 man assault squad plus the 10 man assault squad is only 40 points more per group- for 40 points, you have a much much more effective duo than if you used 2 squads from your list.
i see what your saying i am sorry for my stupidity

where does the priest fit in?

do you have a IM like live or yahoo you use?

[B-rock]

i really like that list you wrote it is balanced and it honestly makes more since
it is not as expensive either

[Tynskel]

What you are experiencing is NOT stupidity.

Experience takes a long time to build in 40k--hell it takes a long time to build in just about ANYTHING. I have been playing this silly silly silly game for ~17 years.
It takes a lot of game playing to see when and where to use a unit--- it helps to have lots of different units to experiment with different strategies. However, I have always been on a limited budget, so it has taken many years to collect the force I have.

The two priests attach to the two 5 man assault squads- they can fit in those two pods.


I used to taylor my lists to my opponent-- then I realized that I wasn't really learning how the army truly works-- I was relying on super tricks, and not what the battlefield can do for me. I switched to a different tactic:
The list is balanced- when I decide to make a list, I try to do two thing, initially. 1) Make a theme, 2) take one fun snazzy unit. More than one, and they become a major points dump.

The snazzy unit-- they are just cool! plus they have the advantage of drawing attention to themselves, due to being Snazzy!
With those two things combined, I then flush out the army with a force that tries to compliment everything...

A lot of the army designs that are on the GW pages are really good starts for an army. Collecting a 'Battleforce' box is a great way to get a flexible force. From there, you work on a theme that you like, and switch in and out the different snazzy units in each build. Eventually, you want to try a new theme, and go through the whole process again.

Which, eventually, builds up a large collection of toy soldiers!!


Bang Bang! ::Whollop:: ::crash::

[B-rock]

What you are experiencing is NOT stupidity.

Experience takes a long time to build in 40k--hell it takes a long time to build in just about ANYTHING. I have been playing this silly silly silly game for ~17 years.
It takes a lot of game playing to see when and where to use a unit--- it helps to have lots of different units to experiment with different strategies. However, I have always been on a limited budget, so it has taken many years to collect the force I have.

The two priests attach to the two 5 man assault squads- they can fit in those two pods.


I used to taylor my lists to my opponent-- then I realized that I wasn't really learning how the army truly works-- I was relying on super tricks, and not what the battlefield can do for me. I switched to a different tactic:
The list is balanced- when I decide to make a list, I try to do two thing, initially. 1) Make a theme, 2) take one fun snazzy unit. More than one, and they become a major points dump.

The snazzy unit-- they are just cool! plus they have the advantage of drawing attention to themselves, due to being Snazzy!
With those two things combined, I then flush out the army with a force that tries to compliment everything...

A lot of the army designs that are on the GW pages are really good starts for an army. Collecting a 'Battleforce' box is a great way to get a flexible force. From there, you work on a theme that you like, and switch in and out the different snazzy units in each build. Eventually, you want to try a new theme, and go through the whole process again.

Which, eventually, builds up a large collection of toy soldiers!!


Bang Bang! ::Whollop:: ::crash::
ty for not bashing me for not being great at this what armies do you have and i have necrons so i dont have variety xp two or three units and that is what i am usually trying to get to work together

[Tynskel]

Ah, Necrons. I really hope the next codex coming out is Necrons--- they have so few units! It would be nice to see some variety!

I have two collections: Tyranids and Blood Angels (space marine stands ins). My Blood Angels are called Sanguine Descendants, and by hive fleet is called Arrakis. Not that these really mean anything (other than me!). I started with these two armies, because the first warhammer game I played was Space Hulk back in the early 90s-- Blood Angels vs Genestealers. Little did I know, I was sucked in--- but I had been sucked in for years, almost all of my favorite board games I played as a kid were GW games! (I wish GW produced more side games--- they really make some of the best games--- hero quest, battle masters, tailsman, necromunda, battlefleet gothic... ect.)

I do have every single current codex, except for Dark Eldar---- Don't ask me questions about dark eldar--- My only answer is: Dark Lance Spam.

If you are thinking about starting a new army (especially since you are interested in variety) I HIGHLY recommend Blood Angels. Their army list supports almost any style: Deep Strike, armored task force, flying, shooting, assault. Probably one of the most flexible forces in the entire game system (always have been, since 2nd edition). I started with bugs, and grew to like space marines. Plus, I love the fluff for the Blood Angels. If Blood Angels aren't your thing, then just good ole Codex Space Marines is just as good.

Almost no other army in the game can give you the variety of tactics and flexibility that space marines do. Purchasing a little bit of everything can really reward a player on many levels:

They are a forgiving army for beginners.
They are tactically flexible- therefore great for veterans.
They are easy to build
They are easy to paint
and my personal favorite: They are easy to convert-- ranging from simple kit bashing, to all the way up to cutting/splicing and sculpting.
Oh yeah, they also are the Heros of the Imperium, saviors of Mankind.

And They Shall Know No Fear--- possibly the one phrase that caught my mind...

[B-rock]

ya i have like 3000+pts of necrons but they are just not the best in 5th and blood angels i wanted to do when the pdf came out but money was tight that is the one thing gw does to you is either make money tight or just make money tighter lol but i mean we buy it so... so how is the new codex for the bugs and that stupid doom think i am sure you have see nthis but watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I97qAyRq_F0

[Tynskel]

your video got blocked by the Tubes!



I do love the new bug codex- there are some unfortunate problems with confusion in the rules, but overall, I think they designed a fun codex-- feels like the way the bugs played in Second Edition--- which was awesome!

[B-rock]

o wow just got blocked i watched it before i posted it too it was Hitler from Valkyrie playing eldar and how the tyranid doom thing screwed his troops over and it

[Tynskel]

oh yeah, I have seen that... rolled on the floor laughing.

[B-rock]

becuz it is funny seeing hitler play eldar and nids raping him the pdf is funny and the part about doom being left out of adepticom

[Tynskel]

yeah, and doom really isn't as powerful as people say it is--- especially to guard- Guard players are all worried about Doom's spirit leech, when, of all the armies, they have the firepower that can roast Doom in one shooting phase, with minimal casualties!

[B-rock]

yeah, and doom really isn't as powerful as people say it is--- especially to guard- Guard players are all worried about Doom's spirit leech, when, of all the armies, they have the firepower that can roast Doom in one shooting phase, with minimal casualties!
Well he is big and scary but that is how alot of units are treated when they are new. If they dont think they can handle it they yell broken so ya

[B-rock]

new list hope it is good so drop pods are not good to me becuz the marines have to sit there a full turn and get assaulted or shot

librarian-epistolary,infernus pistol,jump pack, blood lance, might of heroes=190

assault marines(10) 2 meltaguns, infernus pistol=225

assault marines(10) 2 meltaguns, infernus pistol=225

assault marines(10) 2 meltaguns, infernus pistol=225

assault marines(10) 2 meltaguns, infernus pistol=225

assault marines(10) 2 meltaguns, infernus pistol=225

baal predator flamestorm, heavy flamer=140

baal predator flamestorm, heavy flamer=140

baal predator flamestorm, heavy flamer=140

predator with twin lascannon= 115

*the predator has no sponsons. the librarian is to buff his unit
the thing i feel iffy about is the 3 baal predators that scout i feel three maybe to many and i am not sure about the predator with no sponsons

if you can help me make this list better plz do so !!!

[synack]

Your assault marines need either a power weapon or power fist/thunder hammer on the Sergeants.

Drop to 1 baal and take a vindi.

[Tynskel]

new list hope it is good so drop pods are not good to me becuz the marines have to sit there a full turn and get assaulted or shot

librarian-epistolary,infernus pistol,jump pack, blood lance, might of heroes=190

assault marines(10) 2 meltaguns, infernus pistol=225

assault marines(10) 2 meltaguns, infernus pistol=225

assault marines(10) 2 meltaguns, infernus pistol=225

assault marines(10) 2 meltaguns, infernus pistol=225

assault marines(10) 2 meltaguns, infernus pistol=225

baal predator flamestorm, heavy flamer=140

baal predator flamestorm, heavy flamer=140

baal predator flamestorm, heavy flamer=140

predator with twin lascannon= 115

*the predator has no sponsons. the librarian is to buff his unit
the thing i feel iffy about is the 3 baal predators that scout i feel three maybe to many and i am not sure about the predator with no sponsons

if you can help me make this list better plz do so !!!

Predator with Twin-Lascannons is 135.

Remember, if you deep strike assault squads, you have the same problem that Drop pods have-- they cannot move after deep striking.

[B-rock]

Predator with Twin-Lascannons is 135.

Remember, if you deep strike assault squads, you have the same problem that Drop pods have-- they cannot move after deep striking.
i know, i am not deep striking them, i am moving 12" and shooting the meltas and finally hoping to make the assualt

[synack]

i know, i am not deep striking them, i am moving 12" and shooting the meltas and finally hoping to make the assualt

Put them in rhino. Or split the squads up. Some Rhino squads, some deep strike. Right now your army only has 1 dimension. Yes you have assault marines, but no power weapons, so you're actually not that much of a threat against other CC armies, specially hordes. If you're looking to use meltas and blow up armour, you're better off deep striking with descent of angels and trying to drop right next to the armour.

All I see is alot of troops and pretty much the same thing all round in terms of armour. Once some one has found a way to deal with you, it's going to be a cake walk.

If you take 2 baals and vindi, that spices things up a bit. Or 2 baals and 2 vindis.

I also think you might need a hard punching assault unit, like DC or Sang Guard.

Sang Guard with Dante and a priest, will be a Mech army's worst nightmare, as they can drop in, don't scatter and there's alot of infernus pistols to pop tanks. Against a IG player who squads their heavies, means you could take out two tanks in 1 round of shooting from that one unit. You would also be putting a very hard hitting and rather durable unit right in their back yard that they have to deal with.

Basically, you list doesn't look like you have a real stratergy in mind. You've just thrown a bunch of things together, using the old redudancy methd and what looks nice.

But then again, I could be talking utter nonscence. I don't play marines, but I am planning on building up a BA army once, I'm done with my Nids.

[B-rock]

I see what your saying for sure I feel that 2 Baal and 2 vindactor is much better for my tanks and I like the Dante idea to , but I don't see the point in the rhinos I still can't assualt out of them and at least with them with jump packs I can maybe assault turn one. I will look in to giving the marines power weapons

[synack]

You're hardly ever going to be able to assault on Turn 1. If your opponent see's unprotected jump pack units on the table, he's going to wait for you to move forward and just shoot them in the open. They have 0 cover to protect them. Imagine yourself against Chaos lash units that keeps moving your squad back 2d6".

A rhino is protection for the first turn. You rush forward 18", pop smoke. Next turn you can get out, move and assault. Thats 30" assault in two turns, but your opponent has to open the rhino to get to the unit if he wants to kill them.

A foot slogging (jump pack in this case), moves 12" first turn, but then is in the open for a turn of shooting, then what ever is left after the first turn of shooting, gets to move forward another 12" and charge 6". Resulting in a 30" charge. The distance and turn you assault on is the same, just with the rhino you have more protection.

Deep striking for jump pack units has the down side that you scatter, but with BA it's only d6, which is more than manageable. The other is that you can't move or assault the turn you arrive. But the plus side is, you get to negate a turn or two of your opponents shooting and when you come in, you're all but guranteed that you'll get to shoot as his armour before he can lay down templates on your squad.

If you're not going to deep strike your units, I highly suggest putting them in a rhino. They give added protection for a turn, possibly more and they make good screens for other units.

[Tynskel]

I see what your saying for sure I feel that 2 Baal and 2 vindactor is much better for my tanks and I like the Dante idea to , but I don't see the point in the rhinos I still can't assualt out of them and at least with them with jump packs I can maybe assault turn one. I will look in to giving the marines power weapons

You are not completely correct in stating that Assault Squads cannot charge out of rhinos.

They cannot charge out of a rhino that has moved before the squad disembarks.

However, an assault squad can disembark first (p.67), and act as normal- then the rhino can move as normal.