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View Full Version : CSM 1500pt - could use some feedback



Sooller
04-21-2010, 06:48 AM
After a break of nearly a decennia, I have recently dusted off my Black Legion CSM. I added some new models, and tried to get familiar with the latest edition of the rules and Chaos codex.

This weekend I have my first battle against a feared Blood Angel army and I would appreciate a few pointers to avoid getting trashed :-).

Here is the army list of a 1500 point army that I had in mind:

Command squad with HQ:
1x Chaos Lord w/ Terminator armour, Daemon Weapon and Combi Weapon (melta) = 160 points
4x Terminators with Combi Weapons (melta) = 140 points

Scoring troops:
10x Chaos Space Marines w/ 2x Plasma and meltabombs = 185 points
10x Khorne Berzerkers w/ Rhino including Champion with Power weapon and Icon = 280 points
10x Plague Marines w/ 2x Plasma, meltabombs and Icon = 270 points

Elites & Heavy Support
1x Dreadnought w/ Twin linked lascannon = 125 points
5x Raptors w/ 2x Meltaguns and meltabombs, including Champion with dual lightning claws = 165 points
2x Obliterators = 140 points

Total point value = 1465 (so I got a few points left for options).

zealotic
04-21-2010, 07:50 AM
out of possible cheese factor, i would trash the dread for a demon prince with wings and something, lash, warptime, whatever ya want.

I say this really because ya can't control a chaos dread quite as well as a winged demon prince, for just about the same price too.

eagleboy7259
04-21-2010, 11:46 AM
The most competitive Chaos HQ builds either use the Sorcerer or the Demon Prince. Going all in on Bezerkers might be a good idea, BA wanna get into combat with you and Bezerkers will still kill them in assault. Outside of that I would go for ALOT more anti-tank, 2 Oblits and some plasma guns is optimistic at best, maybe a defiler to murder power armor and then tie some stuff up in assault, depending on how much melta and power fist his packing.

Overall you have to remember a few things, 1) that chaos is still the master in assault even through the suckbat has hit us hard, a few 'zerkers and demon princes will see you through to the end. I had a 2 and a 3 somewhere but they wandered off...

Mr. Smith
04-22-2010, 08:32 PM
For your HQ and elite choice, meh, not really sure about how it wil fair, I personally like scary close combat terminators not the combi equipped kind.

For your scoring units, I'll give you my opinion. I don't understand the point of regular chaos marines, they don't impress me. They cost 15pts a model, are not fearless and will get eaten by Blood Angel troops. But if they're painted really awesome, well...point taken.

Khorne beserkers, I'm going to say something that is probably rather controversial but meh. Khorne Beserkers cannot handle Blood Angel infantry. I'm sorry, but if the infantry is equipped right, and by equipped I mean equipped with a Priest, giving the marines furious charge and feel no pain.

I would in fact recommend more plague marines, because plague marines do not care how fast you are or how many attacks you get on the charge, you slam into a troop of Plague Marines, particulary a strong a ten man squad, and you'll be there a long time.

As for the heavy support and the dreadnaught, I don't man, I say take out the havocs and Dreadnaught and throw in more Obliterators.

eagleboy7259
04-22-2010, 09:28 PM
If they are equipped right there will be less BA infantry than Berserkers. You can take 'zerks with a Skull Champ for a fair price, compared to BA who must take the squad, pay for weapons and the Priest. If you run the Mathhammer if you get the charge then you win, if they get the charge then they win. It's almost as simple as that. Plague Marines make you sit there, spit plasma and hope to weather the storm when it breaks. Idc if you are T5 FNP and 3+, giving up the charge and taking that many S5 I5 attacks means lost combats. Not to mention an aggressive unit is typically better than a reactive unit in the general scheme of things.

Bigthunda
04-23-2010, 12:20 PM
Since your Plague Marines already ave plasma guna I wouls consider giving your generic chaos squad a heavy weapon since they are the only troops choice that can take one! Maybe a heavy bolter or lascannon for mec heavy enemies? Otherwise I like the list melta Raptors are fun and dreadnoughts rule, no matter what anyone says =)

Sooller
04-29-2010, 08:16 AM
First of all thanks for the feedback.

I lost horribly :-( . My dreadnought was too unreliable. The berzekers are strong, but a death company with power weapons and feel no pain proved to be too tough. Also the Death company dreadnought was very nasty. As mentioned I also lacked the fire power to handle his vehicles (predator, razorbacks and dreadnought).

I have a rematch next week and I have reworked my list to the following:

HQ
1x Daemon Prince (with wings and lash or warp time)

ELITES
5x Terminators with lightning claws

TROOPS
8x Thousand Sons /w Sorcerer and Rhino /w havoc launcher
8x Plague Marines /w 2 Plasma and Rhino /w havoc launcher
10x Berzekers /w Champ, power fist and Rhino /w havoc launcher

HEAVY SUPPORT
2x Obliterators
1x Defiler
1x Vindicator

The vindicator will be used in combination with the plague marines, to hold a defensive position. As the vindicator can only move 6" and fire, it will have limited mobility.

The Defiler will be used in combination with the daemon prince and berzekers to advance or assault. With support of deep striking terminators and oblits.

The Thousand sons will assist where needed to finish off any regular marines with their AP 3 bolters and cap victory locations.

I hope to be more successful with this list.

Proximus
04-29-2010, 02:55 PM
First of all, it's a good thing you`ve equippes your troops with rhinos. I wonder why nobody mentioned that before. There's hardly a reason NOT to take them.

I think this is a much better list, the only thing I would recommend to change is the equipment of the terminators. Believe me, I own a squad of 5 LC chaos termies, but I don't use them anymore because they are a kind of one-trick-pony and easily to avoid for the enemy, especially if they don't come in a Land Raider.
They get charged by a cybot and they are screwed.
They face a land Raider and they can't do nothing about it.
They engage a wraithlord and they lok pretty stupid.

It's actually better to give them a nice mix of weapons, i.e. a chainfist, a powerfist, one or two combi-melta and a heavy flamer which is mandatory imho. This way they can deal with anything they will face.

Sooller
04-30-2010, 07:54 AM
@proximus

Thanks for the tip. It is probably indeed better to give some other gear. I just noticed they can fire (even rapid & heavy) and still assault. So it makes sense to keep some firing gear.

Cheers :-)

Legoklods
04-30-2010, 09:43 AM
Chaos lord and termies are always welcome...

You might want to decrease the size of the plague marines... what they excel at is staying alive and holding opjektives. Khornes berserkers are always nice and are some of the few that can win in CC against BA... BUT... I would still go for 1000 sons... with bolt of change...

and the CSM will need a champion!

and don't bring a dread if you want to win. Bring a prince with lash!

eagleboy7259
04-30-2010, 09:58 PM
Aww jeez how'd we let you play without noticing the lack of Rhinos last time? I don't have the codex in front of me, but doesn't vehicle possession work just like POTMS? I can't remember the pricing either or the wording but if it is then it might be worth taking a look at for the Vindi.