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View Full Version : Ravenwing VS White scars which is the better all bike list?



president_ev1l
05-13-2010, 04:09 AM
Hello! Below is a blog post i made earlier today. I could really do with some feedback to help swing my decision conclusively one way or the other. So if you would be so kind as to have a read through and let me know your thoughts, i'd appreciate it.
I should point out that i build lists that i enjoy using and suit my style of play, also a painting and modelling theme is important.

So if you're sitting comfortably, i'll begin:

taken from my blog 'special cases' (http://1500k.blogspot.com)

So iv'e been away recently. Well not away as such, more like lost under a mountain of plastic. Included in this mountain, were 5 ravenwing batallions. I spent a few hours clipping out all those parts and organising them all the while trying to decide what i was going to build with them. I want a pure bike (and speeder) army. A while ago i posted an idea to make a raptor legion army. Well, now its pure bikes and its white scars or ravenwing, and i really can't choose between them. Here's why:

Ravenwing list

H.Q
Master of ravenwing on landspeeder

Troops

Attack squadron(6), 2 flamers, attack bike (MM or HB), Speeder (HB,AC)

Attack Squadron(6), Apothecary, Plasma gun, Attack bike, Speeder

Attack squadron(6), 2 flamers, attack bike, speeder

Fast attack

Support squadron (2 speeders w/ MM)

1490 pts


----------------------------@1750pts:
add Attack squadron(6), 2 x melta, meltabombs (troops)

1735
----------------------------@2000pts
add Speeder & attack bike to attack squadron (troops)

support squadron(2) (speeder w/ MM, Speeder w/ MM & AC)

2000 pts

11/12/15 killpoints
9/10/12 scoring units

Notes
Good points of this list are the 14/14/10 armour landspeeder that the master has. Twinlink HB & AC @ BS 5, the master on landspeeder looks like a pretty lethal unit and also presents me with a fun modelling and painting project. In fact the thought of building and painting 9 landspeeders (4 scoring speeders!) is Probably swinging me towards this list. Scoring landspeeders, an interesting prospect, and i do enjoy painting them. The black and white of the ravenwing will enable some interestinbg designs on those speeders. Another point worth metioning is the deployment, and how the combat squads work. Look at the diagram below:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rMRzn8G-w04/S-u8SddppDI/AAAAAAAAAMQ/KdsamdC4XpA/s1600/RavenwingVwhitescars.jpg

Ok, this is not a strategic diagram, i just mean to illustrate the difference in the numbers on the board, and how the combat squads break down.
In the ravenwing, the attack bikes operate independantly of the bike squads and landspeeders that make up the 10-man troops choice.
In one respect, this is very useful. You can drop the heavy bolter or multimelta on the attack bike (they are the same points in codex DA) and give it a dedicated role. The white scars must break down into 2, 5-man teams (attack bikes count as 2 men) while this gives you 2 nice fire teams, (flamers in 1 squad, HB in the other) it makes less sense to take the multimelta on the attack bike. In the ravenwing, the scoring landspeeders make up the last 2 men in the squad. also operating independantly, they fulfill the role that the heavy bolter attack bike team has in the white scars, raising the question of whether the ravenwing attack bikes get the melta instead (they also get the scouts rule).
The bikers themselves differ. The white scars have more numbers on the board and have the outflank rule.
The ravenwing bikers are significantly more expensive, but get the scouts rule for a free 12" move before the start of the game (as well as the option to outflank) a frightening prospect indeed! Also, these guys are fearless which is certainly useful to keep the small squads from taking LD tests from suffering casualties, but a disadvantage if caught in close combat. Something i obviously want to try and avoid with the ravenwing list.

So, is all the white scars have going for them an advantage in numbers?
White scars list

H.Q

Khan, Moondrakkan

Command squad, bikes, champion, power weapons(4)

Troops

Bike squad(8), attack bike, 2 flamers
Bike squad(8), attack bike, 2 flamers
Bike squad(8), attack bike, 2 flamers

Fast attack

Landspeeder squadron(3) 3 x multimelta, typhoon launcher

1500 pts

----------------------------@1750pts
add attack bike squadron (2)
Landspeeder squadron (2) (2xMM & 1 AC)

1750 pts

----------------------------@2000pts

add 1 attack bike to squadron
Bike squad (5) 2 flamers
1 landspeeder to squadron w/ multimelta

2000 pts


9/11/12 killpoints
6/6/7 scoring units

So thats the white scars list. No scoring landspeeders here. They do have the command squad though..... with khan they get furious charge and hit & run, Feel no pain from the medic, as oppposed to the ravenwing aptohecary which allows you to ignore 1 failed save per turn ( hence why i put a plasma gun in the squad!).
So a powerful close combat unit the like of which the ravenwing could only dream of. How i wish you could give veterans or command squads bikes in codex DA :(
Apart from cheaper bikes, the white scars have a small points saving on landspeeders and can take attack bike squadrons. In both lists the special weapon choices are somewhat flexible... but i do like flamers!

What i need to know is:
What are peoples opinions on which is the better list, if either, AND.....
Mongol hunter theme with dusty white bikes and red tribal markings. Khan conversion (which i've already done - I'll post it later!), Space wolf parts to make them look a bit more feral. <em>OR</em> Sleek black bikes, jungle ruins theme, gothic style black and white freehand on all those landspeeders (raven silhouettes or something...) and all those wonderful accessories from the ravenwing boxes.


Help, Help! I can't choose.....

MC Tic Tac
05-13-2010, 05:36 AM
Take a regular Sm Bike Captain instead of Kahn so you abuse Combat Tactics/Turbo boosting+Going to ground/They shall know no fear.

Turbo up for a 3+ cover save, go to gorund if need be for a 2+ cover save then if they force a LD test chose to fall back 3d6 with combat tactics, auto rally in your turn and all being well you are still in treat range with your melta/bolters/assault. And because you fell back you are no longer pinned ;)

Khan gives your tansports outflank but you have none so this is why a vanilla bike captain is better.

Aenir
05-13-2010, 06:58 AM
Dont forget the DA Ravenwing Banner, while Fearless on LD10 is great, the rerolls make it even better, and with the bonus attack each for having it in a squad, you can get a psuedo command squad that (I would think) roughly equals the SM Dex one :)

president_ev1l
05-13-2010, 07:41 AM
Thanks for your replies.
@MC Tic Tac. Well i'd not thought of those tactics with the biker captain!

@both
I must admit, i'd not really considered that i might need to protect myself from failing pinning tests! I've not seen it happen often! This goes for the ravenwing standard too... all my units are either vehicles or fearless, so i ignore pinning and morale checks, so 25 points for the extra attacks? hmm maybe.

As for khan, he does more than that, he replaces combat tactics with outflank, so it's not just transports that get outflank, its all units with combat tactics. Also he gives the unit he joins furious charge and hit & run.

So the command squad & khan is 24 S5 I5 power weapon attacks on the charge 4@ws6 with 6s to wound causing instant death (khans sword), 4 more @ ws5 champion), toughness 5(bikes) with feel no pain for the return (medic) and can leave combat at the end of the phase.
The ravenwing can't choose anything like that, no bikes for the command squad or veterans in codex DA. I appreciate that the standard is the best i can choose though....

The things i like about the ravenwing is that the attack bikes are seperate, the HB/AC speeders are scoring, the scouts move, and the 14/14/10 hq speeder.

The white scars get more wheels on the field, the killer command squad, deep striking speeders and a better typhoon launcher (or better speeder weapon options in general).

... and i can't decide which i like the look of best either....
:)

eagleboy7259
05-13-2010, 11:30 AM
Well out of the two I'd have to vote for Ravenwing because Sammy is a nasty B**** to deal with when riding in that landspeeder. Khan is meh IMOP, his fancy sword is decent compared to a relic blade. The best option was the one you excluded, the SM captain leading a biker force, and here's why http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/40k-finished-tacticas/190403-tactica-space-marine-bike-armies.html

Although I don't think you HAVE TO take outflank on your bikers and you can still use chapter tactics, but I'm not sure if that is the case. If it is then I'd say Khan just because chapter tactics is awesome with bikers.

president_ev1l
05-13-2010, 01:03 PM
@eagleboy.
Thats an awesome tactica. Really given me some food for thought although its made the choice even more difficult as i was starting to plump for ravenwing.
Perhaps i could choose a Ravenwing-styled army but from C:SM?!?

Tynskel
05-13-2010, 01:37 PM
You are paying for: Scouts, Fearless, and Teleport Homers.

Because of the teleport homers, you are missing out on one of the advantages to the Ravenwing--- Scout up and turn 1 Teleport in Deathwing Terminators.