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View Full Version : 40k Fluff Battle: Speeders



Sitnam
05-14-2010, 03:18 AM
So we often compare units on these forums in a gaming context, but what of the fluff context? I think its well known fluff does not equal game performance in 40k, and things such as points costs obscure comparison because the latest books have led to lower points costs. So instead of bringing a gaming battle, I bring a fluff one.

This has been entitled speeders for I have picked 5 similar units in terms of roles (comparatively speeking.) This is the Necron Destroyer, Ork Deffkopta, Tau Piranha, Space Marine Land Speeder, and Eldar Vyper. All are generally used as high speed, low altitude strike/recon vehicles. Things such as the Hammerhead, Falcon, Fire Prism and Vulture(the original gunship based off the Valkyrie, not that ridiculous Vendetta.:p) I feel are too heavy to be compared in such a comparison, whilst Devilfish and Wave Serpents serve mostly as troop transports. Marine/Ork Bikers take more the role of a cavalry equivalent IMO, much the same with Eldar jetbikers. Do note that while Destroyers and Deffkoptas are jetbikes, their dynamic is much different from the Elda jetbikes. They have smaller numbers and heavier weaponry, and I really feel like they are more equivalent to the Eldar's Vyper. If anyone feels I left out a unit or mis-categorized one please let me know. Anyway, i'll start off with just one of my analysis for now:

1. The Necron Destroyer: Admittedly, this is the one I know the least about. Since they are Necrons, fear of enemy fire is not a problem. They are one with the machine, as that is basically all the are is a machine. I think this lends well to their agility in comparison to the others, as I feel the connection between a pilot and a vehicle is far less intuitive then a Necron and its body. As for weaponry their Gauss weaponry is very powerful, but fairly limited to the high rate of fire Gauss Cannon and the high power Heavy Gauss Cannon. Both have deadly power and penetration abilities, as does all Gauss weaponry. However every other speeder has a larger variety of weapons, giving them versatility. In addition, most other speeders have more then one weapon system, or atleast the option for it. As for protection, the fact that they are Necrons speaks for itself. With no soft bodied pilot to destroy, the vehicle itself must be disabled. Due to the advanced metals and auto-repair systems Necrons contains, killing such a high moving target would be difficult.

Nabterayl
05-14-2010, 03:54 AM
2. The Space Marine Land Speeder: Probably the fastest or second fastest (after the Vyper) of the lot, with a top speed more than double what a Piranha can manage. Also the most heavily armed of the lot by a long way, at least in the Typhoon, Tornado, and Tempest patterns. Can probably hold its own against a Vyper due to the superior training of its crew (Vyper crews being militia, and therefore rusty, even if once they met or exceeded space marine skill), and should fare well against the others so long as it has the room to make good use of its greater speed. More solidly built than a Vyper, and crew should be less susceptible to soft kills due to power armor and enhanced physiology. Probably roughly tied with a destroyer for overall resilience - probably tougher than a destroyer, but without the self-repair faculties.

3. The Ork Deffkopta: Likely the least capable of the lot, if for no reason other than that it's likely to be the most limited in terms of ammunition (e.g., the AoBR deffkoptaz clearly carry a maximum payload of four rokkits and one big bomm, compared to the twelve missiles a Land Speeder can carry) and targeting assistance. Orky construction probably means these are more mechanically robust than they first appear, but likely still the most fragile craft in the list. Since they appear to be held aloft by the rotor alone, and given the ork predeliction for speed, they can probably roughly match a Piranha for speed (~100 knots). As an ultralight helicopter, likely has the highest or second highest (after the Vyper) ceiling of the lot - even Land Speeder Tempests have an operational ceiling of 100m, and the destroyer and Piranha seem to be ground-hugging vehicles. Ability to bounce other speeders could be a critical advantage for ork pilots to exploit in order to make up for their machines' other disadvantages.

Sitnam
05-14-2010, 01:09 PM
And here is the rest of my analysis:


2. The Ork Deffkopta: My absolute favorite just because I am a huge fan of the Orks. I feel the deffkopta is one of the most interesting because despite their seemingly ramshackle appearance and random design, the Orks make effective weapons. The Deffkopta definitely ranks well in agility, and I base this off of two reasons: Speed Freaks live true to their name, and the Ork codex makes reference to a war between Warboss Grog Ironteef and Tau commander Farsight. Deffkoptas were reported to engage is dogfights with Crisis Suit teams, and Crisis Suits are highly maneuverable. They are known to use their speed to fire off short range weaponry before jumping away, and the fact that Deffkoptas were able to entangle them in an extended dogfight is impressive. Deffkoptas have a wide selection of weaponry. Rokkits, big shootas, kustom mega blastas are all proven ork designs for a variety of targets. Deffkoptas also come with some fairly exotic weaponry such as the buzzsaw and big bomm, showing the usual Ork's flair for imagination. Orks seem fairly adapt at inventing new tactics for different opponets, and the codex states that the deffkopta design is still evolving. The inventiveness and speed of the deffkopta is only really offset by its light armor. Such a design necessitates a light frame; however that is something to be said by every speeder listed.





3. The Tau Piranha: I feel the Piranha I fairly middle of the road in terms of fire power, speed, and armor. According to Imperial Armour, Piranha have a top speed of about 160 kph, whilst Land Speeders can do 320 to 350 KPH. The only inference to armor I can make is from gaming rules, which give the Piranha a AV 11, higher then either the Vyper or Land Speeder (Barring the Tempest). The Tau do seem to make their anti-grav fairly heavier then the Eldar; I am fairly sure one of the older Imperial armors have speed and weight. stats on Eldar vehicles Whilst this vehicle does good firepower, what makes the Piranha dangerous is its remote weapons: The Tau Gun Drone and the Seeker Missile. The Seeker Missile is basically a marker light guided krak missile which can be guided by Tetras, Pathfinders or any other markerlight equipped troops. This gives the Piranha a stand off range unprecedented by anything else in this list. The Gun Drone does the same. Whilst attached to the Piranha they can (IIRC, memory fuzzy on this) independently pick off any light infantry getting too close.. They can detach and become escorts for the Piranha, giving the enemy a new distraction to worry about. If anything, the Piranha definitely has integration going for it. The addition of markerlights leads to Piranhas having a synergy with markerlight teams, using their seeker missiles to turn the piranha into a small artillery platform. The Burst Cannon and Fusion Gun of the Piranha are short ranged weapons, and so the ability to fire shots far away can help the Piranha close in.

4. The Eldar Vyper: I feel when it comes to the Vyper it is probably the most heavily armed, or atleast on par with the Land Speeder. It can mount a variety of weapons, including the brightlance which I feel is the strongest anti-tank weaponry of this selection. The power of lance technology in penetrating armor cannot be denied; I also believe Eldar Missile launchers are better then Imperial designs due to smaller size in comparison to a Typhoons missile pods, and the fact that they use advance plasma missiles instead of fragmentation. Although I cant find hard facts on the speed of the Vyper, one could make the argument that it might be the fastest of all the speeders due to the Eldar having some of the more advance anti-grav technology. As said earlier however, they are only operated by a civilian militia, perhaps the weakest pilots of all in this list.

5. The Land Speeder: The Land Speeder I feel is a top contender for most direct fire power and speed. Heavy bolters, assault cannons, typhoon launchers, multi-meltas, etc. It should also be noted that while they have a light construction (barring the Tempest variant of course) like all the speeders, their pilots are the most armored and as such the likelihood of a piece of random shrapnel taking the pilot out is unlikely. Marines are also highly trained and physically capable, and those who pilot Land Speeders are perhaps the ones best suited for such tasks in the chapter.


3. The Ork Deffkopta: Likely the least capable of the lot, if for no reason other than that it's likely to be the most limited in terms of ammunition (e.g., the AoBR deffkoptaz clearly carry a maximum payload of four rokkits and one big bomm, compared to the twelve missiles a Land Speeder can carry) and targeting assistance. Orky construction probably means these are more mechanically robust than they first appear, but likely still the most fragile craft in the list. Since they appear to be held aloft by the rotor alone, and given the ork predeliction for speed, they can probably roughly match a Piranha for speed (~100 knots). As an ultralight helicopter, likely has the highest or second highest (after the Vyper) ceiling of the lot - even Land Speeder Tempests have an operational ceiling of 100m, and the destroyer and Piranha seem to be ground-hugging vehicles. Ability to bounce other speeders could be a critical advantage for ork pilots to exploit in order to make up for their machines' other disadvantages.
Today 04:18 AM You bring up a few interesting points. However one should never base the ammunition capacity of Orks off of their models, for I feel an argument can be made that no ork vehicle is ever the exact same. Their overall design characteristics does mean limited ammunition supply for the deffkopta however. But the Deffkopta is interesting in that it is the only speeder to carry some sort of bombing ordnance, which fits in well with your theory of them having the highest altitude. They are also the only one with a dedicated melee weapon design, which could allow the Ork to exploit the higher altitude they can reach over other speeders. But it also allows them to engage light infantry, swooping in to cut a group into shreds while swooping out.

Nabterayl
05-15-2010, 02:15 AM
Another interesting point about deffkoptaz is that although they seem to attack at low altitudes (as one would expect from orks, both psychologically and technologically), they wouldn't necessarily need to travel at low altitude. If you're fighting orks, and you want to stop a group of deffkoptaz getting from point A to point B, certain factions are going to have trouble. Space marines would be out of luck unless they wanted to devote Thunderhawks to the task. Tau would have to devote fighters or battlesuits. Necrons would probably also be out of luck unless they had some pylons in the area. Eldar would have plenty of options.

Sitnam
05-15-2010, 02:56 AM
And diverting thunderhawks and battlesuits for deffkoptas is a bad tradeoff, especially when the presence of deffkoptas mean more Orks are coming. So use their heavy equipment to deal with these scouts and divert heavy equipment from the battleline, or let them raise hell in the most inoppurtune times. Nevermind the fluff involving deffkoptas dogfighting battlesuits, so even sending battlesuits could mean their loss.