GK Roundup

[DarkLink]

With the WH/DH rumor discussion approaching 80 pages and going strong, I figured I'd post a separate summary of relevant rumors, specifically regarding Grey Knights. Note that this is supposed to be a rough summary. I'm not quoting everything word for word, and I've condensed a lot of the rumors into a quick and easy list of things that may show up in the codex.



First off, because some people still seem to be obsessed with the idea of a combined Inquisition codex;

- Grey Knights and Sisters will be in a seperate codex.

This is from pretty much every single reliable source, and even from people such as Jervis. In fact, not too long ago I recall hearing that JJ said that a "combined inquisition codex is pure fanwank".

There may be a later, separate Inquisition codex or expansion covering all three Ordos. But that is not here, not yet.




As to when it will come out, no one seems to know. However, from recent comments by Harry, it looks like very late 2010, or early 2011. Can't get more precise than that, and no clue how it relates to the DE release.

Edit:
Seems as though both DH and WH codices will be PDF'd on the GW site until they get around to releasing a new codex for each. That makes it seem likely that DE are first, and that GKs will probably be around the new year.





With that out of the way, here's a summary (not verbatim. These are my words, here.):





Sticky Monkey

-lots of psycannon vehicle upgrades

-GK Jetbikes possible

- Landspeeder variant possible, though Stickymonkey seemed unsure if this made it to the final design stages

-GK Chaplain





Harry

-Artificer Armor instead of Power Armor is possible

Harry has mostly talked about when they're coming up, as has DPA.






Uther on GK forums

-Drop Pods (probably for Dreadnoughts) are in, with some sort of special variant

-Stern is dead in the fluff

-NFWs can Insta-kill Daemons (corresponds with Beerfart's rumors)

-GKs have some sort of Apothecary, but may be a special Character



Armylist summary:

Grey Knight units

-Grand Master

-Chaplain

-Terminators

-PAGKs (may become AAGKs)

-Jump Pack/Teleport troops (?)

-Jetbikes

-Purgation squads

Vehicles

Land Raiders

Storm Ravens

Landspeeder variant (may or may not have seen final design stages)

GK Dreadnoughts (might have drop pods)








Lastly, I'll link to MadCowCrazy's roundup, which is very detailed and has pretty much all the specific rumors and comments as they've come out posted: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55212




I'll try to add any big things that I see as they come out. If anyone sees anything that I missed, post it.

Note: Beerfart made up all his stuff, so I've removed it from this list.

[RocketRollRebel]

hmmm I like this. It looks like Grey Knights are gonna stay a small hyper elite army but their rules are gonna finally do the fluff justice. Even with all this tho I don't think that they will be an easy army to play still. Small elite numbers are still hard to win with in 5th ed but at least now it looks like they will have a fighting chance and be competitive. Just not "OPBROKENZ SAUCE!".

:)

[warpcrafter]

If any army should resist the GW urge to compromise their fluff just to sell more toys, it's the Grey Knights. I will always have a mental picture from the back of an issue of WD where a single squad of GK's was surrounded by dozens of Daemons.

[Sooller]

I think Grey Knights should move to Squat town.... making a whole codex based on 1 freaking unit...

[Noxx]

Good to hear allies are gone, if that means what I'm taking it to mean..

[volrath8754]

I think Grey Knights should move to Squat town.... making a whole codex based on 1 freaking unit...

U sir are confused GKs aren't a single unit but a non codex chapter of space marines that works closely with the inquisition. While their number and Primarch is unknown what is certain is that they are the best equipped soldiers the imperium has bar the Emperor's own bodyguard (the Custodes ), and the only chapter able to say that not one marine has turned to chaos.

[Henshini]

In 2nd ed they were a single unit...

[Madness]

But what a unit!

[Lexington]

In 2nd ed they were a single unit...
While I'm no fan of the GKs as an army unto themselves, it should be noted that even in 2nd Edition, the background stated that there were power-armored Grey Knights. They just didn't have rules.

[Madness]

Wait, where?

[DarkLink]

Forgot to add that Justicars might lose their power weapons. I'll put that in there.

[DarkLink]

I also noticed that Beerfart mentioned Daemons still having without number in some form. Must have missed that the first time through.

[Lexington]

Wait, where?
Either in the 2nd Ed Codex Imerialis, or in the Dark Millenium book - pretty sure it's the latter. Don't have either handy now, but I remember this detail clearly.

[Lord Azaghul]

Oh I hope the Allied thing is true, I call lame sause on all those IG players who take an Inq!:D
The Imperial Guard does better without the inquisition!

[Melissia]

I hope Allies are removed, as well. Means they actually have to put forth effort in expanding the Sisters when they come, without the Guard as allies to fill some roles that need to be filled.

[Bigred]

Agreed, the Allies rules were always a blight on the meta game, and need to go.

So this just means your beloved Witchhunters get to keep thier allies the longest Melissia!

Also to DarkLink, thank you for the roundup, ad please feel free to keep that first post updated form time to time.

Thanks everybody!

[Lerra]

I'd be really sad to see the allies rule go. Allies are a lot of fun to play with when people aren't breaking them, and I think it's possible to tweak the allies rules to make them balanced. I hate to think that the entirety of allies are being removed just because of mystics. For most players, the allies rules are the only reason to look at the GK/SoB range at all, and it's a great way to alter your imperial list to breathe some life back into it.

I've got a squad of sisters with a SoB rhino, two squads of storm troopers with chimeras, and squad of grey knights are that are going to be very lonely without allies. Well, I suppose I could make them just count-as regular space marines/scouts, but that feels kinda lame. I love the models and they are going to stay =) But I have no interest in collecting an army of them.

[DarkLink]

Agreed, the Allies rules were always a blight on the meta game, and need to go.

So this just means your beloved Witchhunters get to keep thier allies the longest Melissia!

Also to DarkLink, thank you for the roundup, ad please feel free to keep that first post updated form time to time.

Thanks everybody!

My pleasure:)

[Tynskel]

These rumors actually sound true, not all whack job crazy talk.

Interesting!

I knew they were making Jump Pack Grey Knights ever since I saw artwork for JPGK!

And ignoring Eternal Warrior for Daemons makes sense!

[Squirrel_Fish]

*Imagines NFW/SS GK Terminators wading through corpses*

I've gotta clean up a puddle of drool now and start saving up for the new army...

[darthrex354]

i agree with lerra, allies are a fun and fluffy way of adding character to an army. eve though it would be harder than simply eliminating allies all together to try and balance them it would be cool. after all the imperium is supposed to be a (semi) unified government and it makes sense that say, a squad of grey knights might call in a guard platoon to breach a heavily fortified position. or that sisters of battle might team up with space marines to defend a shrine world.
from a tournament standpoint i do think that having some armies have allies from multiple codexes is unfair but i don't see why they can't just keep a more balanced version of allies in the codex and just say that the allies rules cannot be used in tournaments. i think they used to do something like that with the special characters and variant list that used to run in white dwarf.

[Duke]

Any news on the models? Plastic gk's and such? That is a deal breaker for me if they don't do plastics.

[Colonel Falkenberg]

I look forward to the new codex... and I don't mind loosing alies, as I play pure GK. Not sure on the plastic mini's... I do like the metal ones even though they cost an arm and a leg. If the plastic are just as nice then I'll grab a few, if not... well I have 4 squads of PAGK and 2 squads of termmies.

[fuzzbuket]

aww i LOVED allies they put in a flavour and were pretty cool ( i love the [ic in the old 4th ed BRB with some Gks ternies helpin a spearhead guard formation

it looked soooooooooooooo cool

[UltramarineFan]

and the only chapter able to say that not one marine has turned to chaos.

What about Ultramarines? And Blood Angels? And Imperial Fists? And most of the loyalist 1st founding?

[volrath8754]

What about Ultramarines? And Blood Angels? And Imperial Fists? And most of the loyalist 1st founding?

Apparently they all lost brothers to the temptations of chaos because in the DH codex somewhere it mentions that they are the one organization able to claim this.

[terminus]

I think Grey Knights should move to Squat town.... making a whole codex based on 1 freaking unit...

I think your mom should move to Squat town.

Don't hate just because you don't have good taste in armies.

[Valourousheart]

I am not sure how I feel about the No Allies topic.
On one hand I agree that it is ridiculous that every Imperial army at tournaments has an Inquisitor with mystics.
But on the other a small detachment of GK or SOB along side an IG army has a really cool look to it.

I play pure sisters, so it won't really hurt me one way or the other.
But I am glad that the Inquisition isn't going to be removed completely from the codex.
I have been building a force of Arbites to go along with my sisters... and would hate to see my time and models wasted after a codex re-write.

I don't really see SOB getting Stormravens when the new WH codex comes out... but perhaps we'll get Valkyries instead.
I don't know if I want to see it as a dedicated transport or as an independent unit.
I am not sure I like it if every sister squad can jump out of one... but I would like the option of them getting something faster than a rhino.

[Aeddon]

What about Ultramarines? And Blood Angels? And Imperial Fists? And most of the loyalist 1st founding?

What about them? The Grey Knights are the only chapter that can claim that no single marine has turned to chaos. Just because they are loyal to the emperor does not mean that every single marine that has ever been in their chapter has successfully resisted chaos. Hel, from reading the Blood Angels codex it looks like they are extremely close to turning to chaos. But hey, that's just how I interpret it.

Back on topic.
Thank you for the list, I'm holding onto a healthy heaping of sodium chloride myself but hey...

[HsojVvad]

While I'm no fan of the GKs as an army unto themselves, it should be noted that even in 2nd Edition, the background stated that there were power-armored Grey Knights. They just didn't have rules.

I thought I saw them mentioned in Rouge Trader as well. They were there from the begining but not as cool as they are now.

[Sanguinary Dan]

I don't actually remember Grey Knights being in Rogue Trader at all to be honest. ;)

But I certainly hope that when they say "no more allies" they mean that you won't be able to take GK allies in other armies. Not that the =I= can't requisition cannon fodder.... errr, I mean Imperial Guard.

[Force21]

-Stormtroopers brought in line with IG

AP 3 Lasguns??? or actual Hellguns?




-GKs have some sort of Apothecary, but may be a special Character


yes Grey Knight Terminators with FnP...:D

[Sooller]

-Grand Master Force Weapon ignores Daemon's Eternal Warrior

this proves how cheap GK's are as a stand alone army... where is the game balance in creating an army which strength is too kill a specific army ... :confused: balance would mean that it would ignore Eternal Warrior FOR ALL units and armies.

But hey, let's create another overpowered Imperial army after SW, IG and BA to trash those poor heretics and xenos with their outdated 4th and 3rd edition army books.... ;)

[Force21]

this proves how cheap GK's are as a stand alone army... where is the game balance in creating an army which strength is too kill a specific army ... :confused: balance would mean that it would ignore Eternal Warrior FOR ALL units and armies.

But hey, let's create another overpowered Imperial army after SW, IG and BA to trash those poor heretics and xenos with their outdated 4th and 3rd edition army books.... ;)


Damn right Grey Knights are going to kick the most @ss.... they are the most well equipped & best trained Space Marine Chapter...





-Grand Master Force Weapon ignores Daemon's Eternal Warrior (Stern's just flat out ignores any Eternal Warrior)

I can get why regular Grand Masters can only ignore Eternal Warrior for demons... thats what they do....



BTW can Grand Masters ignore Eternal Warrior on Kharn the Betrayer???

he ignores all Psychic stuff...right?

[Lord Azaghul]

AP 3 Lasguns??? or actual Hellguns?



I hope they are AP3 and cost 12 points! (which as an IG player would also anger me)

That's the only way GW will be selling any of 'em, and new sculpts have been rumoured for quite a while now.

[HsojVvad]

I checked the RT, I can't find no Mention of GK. I see I got them mixed up with the Silver Skulls. So no mention of the from what I can see in RT.

[DarkLink]

Any news on the models? Plastic gk's and such? That is a deal breaker for me if they don't do plastics.

No confirmation, but I would fully expect a new line of plastics. They've been long rumored, and GW has pulled most, if not all, of the current GK models.






Incidentally, I'll add a armylist summary to the roundup:

Special Rules
Descent of Angels-style rule for teleporting units
Daemons get some form of without number
Nemesis Force Weapons are S6, Rending
Storm Bolters count as 2nd CCW for all GKs

Grey Knight units

-Grand Master (may have a name change)

-Chaplain

-Terminators (both Elite and retinue for HQs)

-PAGKs (may become AAGKs:D)

-Jump Pack troops (may have Heroic Intervention)

-Jetbikes

-Purgation squads (new weapon option)

Inquistorial units

-Inquistor (still has weak statline, but gets awesome psychic powers and such)

-Inquisitorial Storm Troopers (brought in line with IG Troopers)

-Assassins (?)

Vehicles

Land Raiders (dedicated transport only)

Storm Ravens (may have a pilot character that allows scout, or something similar)

Landspeeder variant (may or may not have seen final design stages)

GK Dreadnoughts (might have drop pods, and two levels of psyker upgrade e.g. Epistolary/Codicer)

[DarkLink]

this proves how cheap GK's are as a stand alone army... where is the game balance in creating an army which strength is too kill a specific army ... :confused: balance would mean that it would ignore Eternal Warrior FOR ALL units and armies.


Actually, hopefully they'll do a better job balancing against Daemons this time, as these same rumors indicate that Daemons will keep some form of Without Number. So, GKs will have some specific benifits against Daemons, while Daemons will get some specific benifits back.

If they do it well, then it'll turn out fluffy and balanced. But at this point, we don't know enough details to make a judgement on how balanced anything will be.

Plus, I'll point out that GKs currently ignore all Eternal Warrior rules. So this in and of itself would be a nerf, not a crazy unbalanced new rule.



BTW can Grand Masters ignore Eternal Warrior on Kharn the Betrayer???

he ignores all Psychic stuff...right?

I don't think Kharn has Eternal Warrior. However, you are correct. Any psychic power targeting Kharn automatically fails. Thus, it is completely impossible to force weapon Kharn, regardless of whether or not you can ignore the Eternal Warrior rule.

[Mr.Pickelz]

any word on Model Point cost tweak? Or are they all staying the same? 46pt termys with 61pt Brother Captains kinda suck... as well as 25pt PAGK's with 50pt. Justicar's also. Will any one have Eternal warrior? cause thats the main killer of Grand masters at the moment...melta/str8+

[Atrotos]

I want to know more about the Inquisition. Does anyone think they'll go the Forgeworld route and give IST's Valkyries as a dedicated transport. That would allow an airborne list with both Storm Ravens AND Valkyries. Before the latest IG codex FW changed the rules of the chimera to reflect the new codex - could we turn to FW now to see how the Inquisition will be handled in the future?

It would mean:
- no more half-assed Inquisitorial Land Raider without PotMS and Assault Ramp
- new type of Land Raider with Heavy Bolter Sponsons, reduces cover save
- Valkyries as dedicated transports for Inquisitors and Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
- Chimeras, Rhinos brought in line with IG codex

[mysterex]

Well crap.

I guess my radical Daemonhunter stormtrooper and marine based army is going to go the same way as my Lost & the Damned mutant army and my slaaneshi CSM terminator & daemonette army.

I guess I have a knack of building armies that GW only supports for one edition of the codex.

Given that the current guard stormtroopers are hopelessly overpriced a inquisition/stormtrooper based army will be even less appealing than it is now.

[Duke]

What about them? The Grey Knights are the only chapter that can claim that no single marine has turned to chaos. Just because they are loyal to the emperor does not mean that every single marine that has ever been in their chapter has successfully resisted chaos. Hel, from reading the Blood Angels codex it looks like they are extremely close to turning to chaos. But hey, that's just how I interpret it.

Back on topic.
Thank you for the list, I'm holding onto a healthy heaping of sodium chloride myself but hey...


The books dues encarmine and dues sangunius are about a schism within the blood angels. One of their guys is affected by chaos, giving him wings, he then takes his followers and tries to take over the chapter... Turns out he was follwing chaos. But those books aren't mentioned in any other oficial blood angel fluff, so who knows if it actually "happened,"

[DarkLink]

Seems as though both DH and WH codices will be PDF'd on the GW site until they get around to releasing a new codex for each. That makes it seem likely that DE are first, and that GKs will probably be around the new year.

[UltramarineFan]

What about them? The Grey Knights are the only chapter that can claim that no single marine has turned to chaos. Just because they are loyal to the emperor does not mean that every single marine that has ever been in their chapter has successfully resisted chaos. Hel, from reading the Blood Angels codex it looks like they are extremely close to turning to chaos. But hey, that's just how I interpret it.

Back on topic.
Thank you for the list, I'm holding onto a healthy heaping of sodium chloride myself but hey...

What I meant is where did you get that from? Guy further up has already answered that question though so don't worry.

[confoo22]

Going back to allies:

People complaining about allies are really complaining that they don't have an easy route to deep strike behind an army fielding a pair of mystics and have to figure out a different way to get around them. Anyone who thinks that allies are an unfair advantage puts way too much of an emphasis on having all their planned strategies go perfectly every time.

Fact of the matter is that, from a business standpoint, the only way to get rid of allies without completely dooming the line is to inject a significant amount of plastic into the range. No one except the die hards are going to field a fully metal army with prices set as they are now, but they may buy the codex and a couple of squads to add to their existing army, if it's powerful enough.

[AirHorse]

this proves how cheap GK's are as a stand alone army... where is the game balance in creating an army which strength is too kill a specific army ... :confused: balance would mean that it would ignore Eternal Warrior FOR ALL units and armies.

But hey, let's create another overpowered Imperial army after SW, IG and BA to trash those poor heretics and xenos with their outdated 4th and 3rd edition army books.... ;)

Demons do appear in a few different forms too, the eldar, for example, also have a demon. Demon princes also have the demon special rule i think, so it works on at least three armies :P Its not that bad anyway to be fair.

[DarkLink]

Fact of the matter is that, from a business standpoint, the only way to get rid of allies without completely dooming the line is to inject a significant amount of plastic into the range. No one except the die hards are going to field a fully metal army with prices set as they are now, but they may buy the codex and a couple of squads to add to their existing army, if it's powerful enough.

Actually, it's quite easy to remove allies.

In fact, it's much, much more difficult to retain allies in a balanced fashion than it is to simply drop them.

[AirHorse]

I wouldnt mind allies being retained, but only for an inquisitor to induct into an inquisition force(which makes alot more sense). That would mainly just allow the codex to have another build without the need for repeating units, like say imperial guard infantry platoons.

[Vhalyar]

Seems as though both DH and WH codices will be PDF'd on the GW site until they get around to releasing a new codex for each. That makes it seem likely that DE are first, and that GKs will probably be around the new year.

We're still waiting a confirmation on that though. Shouldn't be hard/take long to ascertain whether or not the June White Dwarf says anything about this (as per the rumor).

[DarkLink]

I think the source was someone who somehow got the June WD early and saw the announcement in there, or something to that effect. I could be remembering wrong, though.

[Vhalyar]

Can't hurt to get a confirmation, especially for something this important. The thing is already out, so I'm sure someone could be bothered to actually verify that the claim wasn't made up.

[thecactusman17]

Actually, it's quite easy to remove allies.

In fact, it's much, much more difficult to retain allies in a balanced fashion than it is to simply drop them.

Retaining "balanced" allies is a bit of a misnomer--you are suggesting that GW balances the game between codexes/releases when even they themselves state that this is untrue. Blood Angels are NOT balanced against, say, Dark Eldar. Frankly, they may be much more powerful. However, BAs were not designed with other codexes in mind. Including The Inquisition codexes. Guard, obviously, were not either.

If I were on the GW marketing team, and saw that the last several iterations of Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle, and Inquisitors were designed to be taken as elements in other armies, then you can best believe that a way to pump up interest in the models (and thus sales) would be to allow a certain amount of alliance. Now, this may come either from the outside codexes in, or from the inquisition codexes out, but here's what I'd wager: you could take a number of the most recognizable units in the codex and plop them into another army fairly easily, but that these units will not be at the same level of utilty as they might be in their own codex. So no anti-deepstrike field for Guard, but they may be allowed to have a normal 24" range psychic hood. You'd do this by more carefully selecting which units could be taken and therefore, what wargear and unit abilities would be available.

People forget something: in the next edition, we're almost certainly going to see wide changes to the metagame. That's what lead to the current issues to begin with, core edition changes (a sudden prevalanece of deepstrike and psychic powers for example, as well as increased reliance on vehicles) that make the Inquisition codexes seem better than they actually were for most of their existence. Trying to account for all of these vagueries between 12 factions now (some of which never even really participated in whole editions) is what's causing problems. The individual codexes aren't doing much to the balance at all.

[Vhalyar]

Reds8n at Dakka has the June WD and confirms that the whole PDF thing is... a complete fabrication.


can someone with access to the June White Dwarf confirm the bit about the respective Hunter books being made into pdfs?Yes.

It's not in WD but Dark Eldar are the next codex.

Did the guy who said that crap give out any other details, just to know what else is bollocks? :p

[DarkLink]

I think you misread that. He actually confirms that the new WD says that DH/WH will be pdf-ified. He then, separately states that DE are the next codex, though WD doesn't say anything about DE being confirmed as the next codex.

As further evidence, I submit this, a few posts after Reds8n:


Old GK and WH rules will defo be available online according to spearhead WD. Thanks for the update btw.

[eldargal]

So its definitely the current DH/WH rules going to pdf, not new codices like some people were thinking?

[Vhalyar]

Aww :(

[DarkLink]

So its definitely the current DH/WH rules going to pdf, not new codices like some people were thinking?

Well, I don't think there was ever much of a reason to expect a new codex in pdf form. All the actual sources I saw sounded like "WH current rules posted until new codex eventually comes out". Turns out the same will happen to DH as well.

[MadCowCrazy]

I called GW and aksed them, the 3ed DH/WH codicies will be avaible for download.

Whats the point really? If they have the same outdated rules they will be pretty worthless even to people interested in starting the armies.
I just did the math and 10GK termies and 20PAGK costs 160£ and is that even enough to start a GK army for instance?
Would you make that investment, take the time to paint and everything only to play with outdated rules and unit costs?
Not knowing when or even if there will be a new codex soon?

I sure as hell wouldnt waste the 300-400£ needed to start a SoB 1500point army not knowing if half the stuff I bought will be avaible in plastic soon or even if a new codex is in the works. From what I read some ppl think SoB will be the last codex before 6th ed which would put them at 2012. I hope to god this isnt true.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, I don't think this will end up affecting most people. Everyone will probably just wait for the new codices.

[Grendel]

There was a full grey knight army list in Realms of Chaos - lost and the damned (i think, it could have been slaves to darkness, its been 20 yrs :) ).

it was the khorne and Slaanesh book. there was also a black legion army list with lost of possessed units. circa 1989.

from memory the GK were ok, and had a lot of psykers. this was before the termie unit was released in the compilation/compendium (the yellow book i can;t remember back that far) so no one really used them as the fluff was not as interesting as the chaos armies.

i used the ROC emperors children list, before noise marines existed back when daemon weapons had real daemons in them, :)

massive nostalgia attack :) may have to make a tank out of a shampoo bottle next.

AL
www.ironhalo.net
"Get More Base"

[Melissia]

I just did the math and 10GK termies and 20PAGK costs 160£ and is that even enough to start a GK army for instance?

I would estimate, depending on wargear, that could make a 1250 point army.

[DarkLink]

If you got a trio of Land Raiders with that, you could get an acceptable force up to about 2000.

[DadExtraordinaire]

No confirmation, but I would fully expect a new line of plastics. They've been long rumored, and GW has pulled most, if not all, of the current GK models.






Incidentally, I'll add a armylist summary to the roundup:

Special Rules
Descent of Angels-style rule for teleporting units
Daemons get some form of without number
Nemesis Force Weapons are S6, Rending
Storm Bolters count as 2nd CCW for all GKs

Grey Knight units

-Grand Master (may have a name change)

-Chaplain

-Terminators (both Elite and retinue for HQs)

-PAGKs (may become AAGKs:D)

-Jump Pack troops (may have Heroic Intervention)

-Jetbikes

-Purgation squads (new weapon option)

Inquistorial units

-Inquistor (still has weak statline, but gets awesome psychic powers and such)

-Inquisitorial Storm Troopers (brought in line with IG Troopers)

-Assassins (?)

Vehicles

Land Raiders (dedicated transport only)

Storm Ravens (may have a pilot character that allows scout, or something similar)

Landspeeder variant (may or may not have seen final design stages)

GK Dreadnoughts (might have drop pods, and two levels of psyker upgrade e.g. Epistolary/Codicer)

Hello Darklink and thank you for the update(s) on GK. :)

Not too fussed about Allies as I don't use them for IG and only use them as part of a campaign or if the battle scenario warrants it, but I am interested in the following:

NFW will these be classed a Power Weapons for all GK or for Justicar upwards?

The options for the Purgation Squads 5 weapon choices - I read this as Psycannons, Incinerators, Lascannons, Missile Launchers and Plasma Cannons - would this be close or are the GK getting some new Hvy Wpns specifically aimed at daemons / defeating Invul saves?

Lastly the heroic Intervention for JP GK - I am assuming here only PAGK (and / or AAGK?!) would these be then classed as FA slot troops?

Reason I ask all these questions is that I have GK army already and would love to add to it, particularly if they do release Plastics (I assume these will be PAGK and GKTermies with the abilit to upgrade PAGK to AAGK).

Thanks in advance and it would be most appreciated if you can offer any glimmer of help on the above.:o

[DarkLink]

Hello Darklink and thank you for the update(s) on GK. :)

Heh, starting a thread that got ~13000 views in about two days is a reward in and of itself:D



NFW will these be classed a Power Weapons for all GK or for Justicar upwards?

Justicars lose power weapons. Terminators and up still have them. Fortunately, squad-wide rending and more attacks should make up for this.



The options for the Purgation Squads 5 weapon choices - I read this as Psycannons, Incinerators, Lascannons, Missile Launchers and Plasma Cannons - would this be close or are the GK getting some new Hvy Wpns specifically aimed at daemons / defeating Invul saves?

Beerfart didn't say what these weapons were one way or another. Could be new, could be old, or could be both. I'd like some new ones, personally.



Lastly the heroic Intervention for JP GK - I am assuming here only PAGK (and / or AAGK?!) would these be then classed as FA slot troops?

He was a little unsure here, but it sounded like the current FA teleport could get jump packs and HI.



Reason I ask all these questions is that I have GK army already and would love to add to it, particularly if they do release Plastics (I assume these will be PAGK and GKTermies with the abilit to upgrade PAGK to AAGK).

Same here



Thanks in advance and it would be most appreciated if you can offer any glimmer of help on the above.:o

No problem:D

[Madness]

There was a full grey knight army list in Realms of Chaos - lost and the damned (i think, it could have been slaves to darkness, its been 20 yrs :) ).

it was the khorne and Slaanesh book. there was also a black legion army list with lost of possessed units. circa 1989.

from memory the GK were ok, and had a lot of psykers. this was before the termie unit was released in the compilation/compendium (the yellow book i can;t remember back that far) so no one really used them as the fluff was not as interesting as the chaos armies.

i used the ROC emperors children list, before noise marines existed back when daemon weapons had real daemons in them, :)

massive nostalgia attack :) may have to make a tank out of a shampoo bottle next.

AL
www.ironhalo.net
"Get More Base"Realms of Chaos, page 246 in case someone wants to read up.

[Brass Scorpion]

From Beerfart on Dakka Dakka, 5/19...Does everyone here know that the lot of information provided there was revealed to be a deliberate hoax earlier today?

[DarkLink]

Does everyone here know that the lot of information provided there was revealed to be a deliberate hoax earlier today?

So it would seem. Too bad, most of that stuff seemed to be going in a good direction. I liked it, and from what I saw it got a pretty favorable response from the community (hint, hint, GW;)).

I'll go ahead and remove the appropriate stuff.

[Vhalyar]

So it would seem. Too bad, most of that stuff seemed to be going in a good direction. I liked it, and from what I saw it got a pretty favorable response from the community (hint, hint, GW;)).

I'll go ahead and remove the appropriate stuff.

It was actually pretty bland :/
Rending across the board, the band-aid of 40k rules.
Stern as Mephiston Mk2 down to not being an IC.
Jet packs.
No assassins when GK are on the field. :rolleyes:

And I'm probably forgetting a couple of things. Yeah, boring, bland and uninspired when this is the opportunity to go crazy and fluffy.

[DarkLink]

Rending across the board, the band-aid of 40k rules.

I'd love to have GKs that are totally awesome in CC. I don't care about the means by which this is done. Having good, competitive rules is more than enough.



Stern as Mephiston Mk2 down to not being an IC.

Yeah... I don't mind this not being true. I'm not a fan of the non-IC IC's.



Jet packs.

Your point:p?

Ok, so it should be teleport packs, not jet packs. Big difference:rolleyes:. Even if they do give us jet packs, I'm modeling them as a teleport pack on my guys.



And I'm probably forgetting a couple of things. Yeah, boring, bland and uninspired when this is the opportunity to go crazy and fluffy.

His list seemed indicative of an update of the current units and rules (which is perfectly reasonable), with some cool new stuff. The list of units was still somewhat light, however, so I think it was assumed (at least, this is what I assumed) that there was much more in the codex that he hadn't seen, and his rumors were just the tip of the iceberg.

As far as they went, I liked the overall approach. Yes, a full codex would have needed more new stuff. But for updating the current stuff, I liked it.

[Vhalyar]

His list seemed indicative of an update of the current units and rules (which is perfectly reasonable), with some cool new stuff. The list of units was still somewhat light, however, so I think it was assumed (at least, this is what I assumed) that there was much more in the codex that he hadn't seen, and his rumors were just the tip of the iceberg.

As far as they went, I liked the overall approach. Yes, a full codex would have needed more new stuff. But for updating the current stuff, I liked it.

That's the point though. Look at Space Wolves and how much of a makeover they got. I'm not quite familiar with the old Blood Angels, but I'm fairly sure that they too got a huge shakeup. His stuff was bland with some rather stupid ideas. as for jet vs teleport packs, it's actually a fairly huge difference in both mechanics and fluff ;)

Well that's just my opinion, but from the get-go it seemed pretty silly, on top of the fact that he mysteriously lifted ideas (down to point costs) from my fake data sheets :p

[DarkLink]

as for jet vs teleport packs, it's actually a fairly huge difference in both mechanics and fluff ;)

Just fluff. My point was that they'd count as jump infantry exactly the same, just that the fluff mechanism is that they teleport short distances rather than use jump packs and fly.

Besides, I could care less about the fluff (which would get redone anyways, fluff changes and we might as well get used to it) so long as it gets me an army that is finally powerful (but balanced) in-game.



Well that's just my opinion, but from the get-go it seemed pretty silly, on top of the fact that he mysteriously lifted ideas (down to point costs) from my fake data sheets :p

I think he lifted ideas from a lot of places. Doesn't make them bad ideas;).

Though, to be honest, your fake data sheet rules were overpriced as I recall, unless I missed some special rules you stuck on them (or those made up rules you put were really, really good). 35pts a model for the stats you gave them would have made them more overpriced than they currently are.

[Ryanironwolf]

They were a coherent army as far back as Slaves to Darkness. I played them in first edition and used them through til they finally got their own codex. Didn't play all that much 2nd edition but loved the background and idea so much I kept them going as a marine chapter sans the special rules.

In the first edition they'd enlist Imperial Guard and destroy them after the battle for fear of taint, Marines they requisitioned would be brain wiped out of deference to their brotherhood. Plus their inquisitors used Daemon weapons to fight fire with fire so to speak. I prefer the idea in the codex that they abhor even that and are the closest things to pure anti chaos as you can get. Still. It was nice watching the Chaos lads grimace when they were killed by their own toys.

[Forbino]

The idea of modeling up Grey Knight Chaplins is kind of exciting to me. Also the jetbikes...hopefully you can combine the two...

[Melissia]

Why the hell are you doing bright orange on a white background?

[Spirit Leech]

Hopefully there are a few wargear options and maybe a daemonhost option or two (if I remember right there are three levels of daemonhost each growing more powerful and leaving the inquisitor with less control then the last) for radical inquisitors.

[DarkLink]

Incidentally, I saw this on Heresy Online:



So the order would be DE, GK, Nec then SoB?

And I guess your previous guess of 18 months away still holds?


something like that and 18 months ish, depending entirely on how many codexes we see next year, I understand there is another marine codex further away that may be bumped up if things go tits up on "crons" or "sob".



Originally Posted by Vhalyar
I'm curious if you still think that it'll be GK centric or some sort of combined Inquisition though.


there is definately an inquisition supplement/codex/thingamy/expansion/g-string that sounds likely for next year,
I do know it will feature a good few inquisitor's, their retinue and no bananas(that's entirely a guess, it may include bananas).

I believe (but don't know) that there will be no inquisitors in either the GK or SOB codexes/codecii/codecexii/cocodamol/coconuts,
however the inquisitor supplement/codex/thingamy/expansion/g-string will allow inquisitors to commandeer/ally with any imperial forces,
meaning you can still have inquisitors with your GK/SOB if you so wish.

There really is no "combined inquisition codex", it is complete wishlisting/chinese whispers

So it sounds like DE this winter, GKs around the turn of the year, then Necrons, then Sisters. Inquisitors will be split off into some sort of expansion thingie.

[synack]

Arg, I really hope he's wrong about inquisitors getting thier own suppliment. I'm begining to hate how many armies I'm seeing ally a DH inquisitor to deal with deep striking units, or to get access to a table wide hood.

[rbryce]

Arg, I really hope he's wrong about inquisitors getting thier own suppliment. I'm begining to hate how many armies I'm seeing ally a DH inquisitor to deal with deep striking units, or to get access to a table wide hood.

at least the hood wont be a problem anymore, as its just a relic of prior editions thats being phased out, as to anti-deepstrike OM inquisitors, i cant think of a better rule for them considering that their main foe(Daemons) pretty much always DS anyway.

p.s. damn you Darklink, i was gonna post the info up in 5 mins! *shakes angry fist in jest* Damn you! lol

[DrLove42]

at least the hood wont be a problem anymore, as its just a relic of prior editions thats being phased out, as to anti-deepstrike OM inquisitors, i cant think of a better rule for them considering that their main foe(Daemons) pretty much always DS anyway.


The fluff wise the inquisitors interfere with demon deep strike as they fade in from the immaterium. But how does the fluff explain an inquisitor distrupting a Tau suit deep striking?

No problem with inquisitors interfering with demons, cos thats what they obviously should do...but teleporting/ jump packing troops no....apparantly the Valk can deepstrike as it flies whever it wants then goes into hover...how is an inquisitor supposed to stop that?

[Commissar Lewis]

Why the hell are you doing bright orange on a white background?

Why the hell not?

Or better yet, Cyan.

Ah, man I have lost my mind, haven't I...

[fuzbuckle]

No problem with inquisitors interfering with demons, cos thats what they obviously should do...but teleporting/ jump packing troops no....apparantly the Valk can deepstrike as it flies whever it wants then goes into hover...how is an inquisitor supposed to stop that?

It's not the inquisitor, it's the mystics. My belief has been that they utilize their psychic prowess to detect deep strikers of any kind. That would include pilots of Valks, the minds of Jump pack troops, etc...

[Melissia]

Also teleporting could be interfered with just the same as daemons materializing could.

[DarkLink]

Arg, I really hope he's wrong about inquisitors getting thier own suppliment. I'm begining to hate how many armies I'm seeing ally a DH inquisitor to deal with deep striking units, or to get access to a table wide hood.

I doubt Mystics will stay as they are. In fact, I seriously doubt that any Inquisitorial unit will stay much as they are.


I actually see Inquisitors acting almost like IG CCSs. You have a unit with an Inquisitor in it. The Inquisitor gets a ton of wargear upgrades, and librarian-type psychic powers. And the warriors can be upgraded to various advisors/sanctioned psykers and the like, giving various benefits to the army.

I seriously doubt that the current version of mystics will still be around, though.

[Lerra]

A little birdy told me to expect the removal of allies in the GK codex. He also says to expect the codex "earlier than the rumors are suggesting." He just sold his GK army so that he could paint up the new models when they are released (he said that the new models are looking pretty stellar, on par with the new Dark Eldar models). He's not planning to be without his army for very long.

GW is being very tight-lipped about the GK release, and he said to expect it to be very quiet on the rumor front until 2 months before release.

I'm still taking this with a grain of salt (I want to keep my daemonhost ally :() but the source seemed reliable and I can confirm that he has contacts with the higher-ups in GW.

[Melissia]

Mmhmm, the allies are probably gonna be gone, unless they're somehow included in a supplement of some sort.

[HsojVvad]

Mmhmm, the allies are probably gonna be gone, unless they're somehow included in a supplement of some sort.

Or all units that a DH player can use will be listed in the book so we could potenally have GK and regualar SM and IG units in the codex so therefore no need to have allies rules.

So if any GK unit taken then there can be a rule that no SM or IG is taken or if no GK taken but Inquisitors only then you can take the listed SM or IG or Stormtroopers or what ever units are listed.

Remeber use what is in your codex rules now. So who is to say that there will be no IG or SM listings as well. Something to think about. No?

[DarkLink]

I expect that an allies supplement will come later.

[synack]

I just want this Fantasy and DE stuff to be over so I can get to Grey Knights. I've purposely put off building a BA army to further build on the GK I have.

[HsojVvad]

I expect that an allies supplement will come later.

I don't think so. I believe GW wants the "use the one codex" mentality so I can't see a suppliment coming.

Why would you think a supplemnet will come? Did you "hear" anything? :cool:


I just want this Fantasy and DE stuff to be over so I can get to Grey Knights. I've purposely put off building a BA army to further build on the GK I have.

Go start your BA, because it could be end of August or next year before GK come out.

[synack]

Go start your BA, because it could be end of August or next year before GK come out.

You gonna donate me time and $?

[Melissia]

I don't think so. I believe GW wants the "use the one codex" mentality so I can't see a suppliment coming.

Why would you think a supplemnet will come? Did you "hear" anything? :cool:

Yes. Several sources have stated that the Inquistion will get its own supplement, separate from GK and SoB.

[HsojVvad]

Yes. Several sources have stated that the Inquistion will get its own supplement, separate from GK and SoB.

But that dosn't mean you will be able to use the =I= and GK or SoB codex together though.

All speculation anyways right now. Some say =I= get their own codex, others have said they will not and only play a minor part in GK and SoB codex. Time will tell.

[Melissia]

All speculation anyways

No wait really? Next you'll tell me that these rumors are just rumors!

[HsojVvad]

No wait really? Next you'll tell me that these rumors are just rumors!

Why yes, rumours are just rumours. Are you a mind reader? How did you know I was going to say that? :p

[DarkLink]

But that dosn't mean you will be able to use the =I= and GK or SoB codex together though.


Yeah. A GK codex. A Sisters codex. And an allies supplement that will supposedly have allies for more than just the Imperium.

A GK codex is about as close to set in stone as rumors can get, we just don't know the release date. Sisters we have plenty of reason to expect, but there is still time for change. Allies is still just a possibility.

[Chainman]

I am mainly a BA player (first Love):D, though i do have a approx 5000pt SOB and about 3000pts of GK (I like collecting and painting almost as much as playing) so I am really looking forward to the new codexs. My only beef is that I hope they release the Storm Raven Model and not wait until the GK codex is out. Has anyone heard or seen any rumors or pics?

[volrath8754]

January isn't that far off man 5 months away!

[DarkLink]

No storm raven model yet.

I, however, have two valkyries, one of which I have already converted to be a storm raven similar to this one here (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/05/40k-hobby-horn-pattern-storm-raven.html).

So I'll have three Land Raiders, two Storm Ravens, a Dreadnought (I'll probably get a second, as well), and plenty of GKs for the new 'dex.

[Rahveel]

I expect that an allies supplement will come later.

And I expect that I'll get an allies supplement for my CSM's letting me use God specific deamons....

anyone? >.>

:(

[Melissia]

Maybe they will. It could be an allies supplement which gives rules for allying various armies together that fit together-- for example, rangers in an Imperial army, or Ork mercenaries in an Eldar army (they aren't above bribing Orks to die for them you can be sure), Imperial Guard and Chaos Daemons in a CSM army (to represent Lost and the Damned), etc.

We already occasionally houserule this locally, but it'd be nice to have official rules.

[DarkLink]

The rumors did imply that there would be allies for all the armies, not just the Imperium.

Theoretically, the Imperium would get Inquisitors, Chaos would get to mix Daemons and Marines, and possibly cultists, Tau would get more kroot and stuff, and so on and so forth. Though that all is pure conjecture on my part.

[MadCowCrazy]

Maybe they will. It could be an allies supplement which gives rules for allying various armies together that fit together-- for example, rangers in an Imperial army, or Ork mercenaries in an Eldar army (they aren't above bribing Orks to die for them you can be sure), Imperial Guard and Chaos Daemons in a CSM army (to represent Lost and the Damned), etc.

We already occasionally houserule this locally, but it'd be nice to have official rules.

Im afraid something like this would turn into IA, Spearhead, Apo etc. Something you rarely see and not something people would include in regular armies.

People would complain if I brought 35point rhinos or use Repressors as transports since those are IA rules and Ive never heard of a tournament allowing it.

[Melissia]

Yes, some players are like that. Other players are friendly.

[Lerra]

I would love to see an Allies codex. I love the whole idea of allies, and if it was released by GW and fairly balanced, I think it would be accepted on the tournament scene.

[Tuatara]

You have to admit, an Allies codex would be a great marketing move by GW. Everyone would buy it, not just those interested in a particular army.

[Melissia]

And it could get people to buy models they'd normally never buy.

[Tuatara]

Good point.

So there you have it. If they weren't planning to bring one out, perhaps even as we read this, one of the minions at the GWHQ is racing down the halls to the overlord with a great idea they will claim was theirs.

[HsojVvad]

So would this "Allies codex" be just for Imperial players only? Should xenos and chaos have allies as well?

[Melissia]

So would this "Allies codex" be just for Imperial players only? Should xenos and chaos have allies as well?

Why not?

Chaos is quite poorly represented without lost and the damned CSMs are hilariously rare, and Daemonic infestation are hardly common events), but this could be rectified if you had, say, an Imperial Guard army that could ally in CSMs and Daemons (but doing so forbade them from taking Imperial allies).

And then there's Kroot Mercenaries, Ork Freebooters, and Eldar Rangers which can all do military work for some kind of gain.

[Shagrath]

beastmen cultists and the lost and the damned would be lovely..

[Artein]

GK codex is currently being put together (fluff, art) and playtesting is happening now.
dead centre january is the date it's pencilled in for,
curiously enough the date seems to be more "in stone" then anything not related to 8th edition fantasy.

additionally there is CSM + O&G chatter
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65065&page=69

[synack]

I'm happy with a Jan release. I've got plenty of work to still do on my Nids.

[Melissia]

Neat. So it's Dark Eldar this year, Grey Knights in January, and then after that we're probably gonna look at a late spring / summer release of Necrons, and a fall/winter release of Sisters.

Sounds like a good year to me. And then all the third edition codices are gone.

[eldargal]

Agreed. a very good year.
That should give me twelve months or so to paint up Dark eldar (and WFB stuff) before plastic Sisters arrive on the scene.


Neat. So it's Dark Eldar this year, Grey Knights in January, and then after that we're probably gonna look at a late spring / summer release of Necrons, and a fall/winter release of Sisters.

Sounds like a good year to me. And then all the third edition codices are gone.

[Tuatara]

If GK is not until January, I'll have to ask for something else for Christmas.

[MadCowCrazy]

If GK is not until January, I'll have to ask for something else for Christmas.

The answer is easy, ask for money or gift vouchers.

[Drew da Destroya]

And then there's Kroot Mercenaries, Ork Freebooters, and Eldar Rangers which can all do military work for some kind of gain.

Don't forget the Blood Axes... sneaky gitz'll work for anyone. Just not proppa.

[Tuatara]

The answer is easy, ask for money or gift vouchers.

Actually, that is a very good idea. That way nobody gets the wrong units due to a miscommunication.