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Craz
08-09-2009, 09:37 PM
Okay, I was taking a look at some people's reports on the 'Ard Boyz...and I've noticed a Necron list called "Drop 'Crons." What does this consist of?

crazyredpraetorian
08-09-2009, 10:01 PM
here's a link http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=667

Chumbalaya
08-10-2009, 12:14 AM
How the hell does junk like that even place?

3 Monoliths? What does the army do against any armor values, hope their glances go through?

npullan
08-10-2009, 07:30 AM
I was more curious about how 12 Necron models aren't phased out turn 1 before reserves rolls can be rolled.

I mean seriously, doesn't anyone take heavy weapons in the 'Ard Boyz league?

FirstLegion
08-10-2009, 08:18 AM
I was more curious about how 12 Necron models aren't phased out turn 1 before reserves rolls can be rolled.

I mean seriously, doesn't anyone take heavy weapons in the 'Ard Boyz league?

Necrons held in reserve count toward the total number of Necrons for calculating phase out. It's pretty clear from the codex that 75% of the total Necrons must be destroyed to cause phase out, reserves only count as destroyed if they are still in reserve when the game ends.

Dan-e
08-10-2009, 08:38 AM
Because Necrons in reserves count towards Phase Out. They only count as being destroyed if they are still in reserves at the end of the game. Also, A group of Immortals with two lords is pretty hard thing to kill and with the option to Deep Strike them around the table those immortals can rack up some kills.

what also helps is the Soler Pulse that makes firing at the Immortals function like Night Fight are in effect against that unit.


This works because the Necrons MUST come in though the monoliths and only one can do it per monolith on the table. so if more Warriors become active then you have portals on the table, then they wait until they can.

This list doesn't look like it would do a lot but trust me, it will eat things in mechs, those scarab swarms all with disrupter fields, OUCH is all i can say. 36 Attacks that don't need a weapon skill to hit Tanks and need a 6 to glance, regardless if the tank blows up its most likely won't be shotting or moving

If it doesn't move, More attacks that auto hit, sooner or later it will run out of weapons to blow up and will just blow up itself.
If it destroys the weapon, the biggest threat the tank has is gone, leaving (if its a transport) anything in side to be dealt with by the Necron Warriors, Immortals or the Monolith.

And good luck killing them before they get their, Turbo Boost gives them massive range and a 2+ Cover save and the next turn they can assault targets 18" away.

As far as the Warriors, they are their for objectives and extra fire power, the Immortals, Monoliths and Scarabs are the main force to watch out for in this list. Not fielding Destroyer will confuse some people who are used to it being the most common Necron tactic.

FirstLegion
08-10-2009, 09:06 AM
This works because the Necrons MUST come in though the monoliths and only one can do it per monolith on the table. so if more Warriors become active then you have portals on the table, then they wait until they can.


Actually, they only HAVE to enter through the monolith if you are using the special reserve rule that warriors have. 5th edition allows you to hold anything in reserve, which would allow you to just walk in from the board edge. Unfortunately, you have to decide which each squad is going to do when you announce your reserves.

BuFFo
08-10-2009, 10:07 AM
Funny....

About two months ago a friend of mine tried this necron tactic against my dark eldar. (smaller points value of course)

Turn one I flew in and just destroyed both his troop choices with Disentegrator / dark lance fire.

Then, as each new group of warriors came on the board, I either destroyed them as well the same way or just ran my wyches or Archon into them.

I tied his Scarabs up with warriors on foot or wyches.

After playing with Dark Eldar for so many years, i wonder how other armies must fair at trying to do the same thing.... ugh.... I shudder....

Chumbalaya
08-10-2009, 10:31 AM
Scarabs = flamer fodder.

36 attacks, hitting on 6's and needing a 6 to glance. That's...1 lol

Warriors getting out of Monos bunch up nicely for templates, unless they run.

Mono portals can be blocked, lulz ensue.

And of course, Mystics + Demolisher.

Garbage list.

Norbu the Destroyer
08-10-2009, 02:10 PM
Chumbalaya why are you so angry, I dont think I have seen a positive post from you yet. Why not try the list and see if you have fun. Necrons have nothing to loose, everyone thinks they suck so why bash em. You can try a list like this and have a wild game and who knows you might actualy smile and walk away from a memorable game. And sure you can take each individual unit and come up with a counter, but isnt that the point of the game. Sure flamers eat scarabs for breakfast, but everything has a counter in the game, Bloodcrushers have drednaughts, deamonettes have bolter fire, vehicles have melta, thats the challenge of the game, use your army to win against the other persons army. The most important factor is have fun, and you may be surprised how competetive those "drop crons" are.

Norbu the Destroyer
08-10-2009, 02:28 PM
Oh, and not to pick on you chumbalaya, but you asked how the mono's deal with armour "glance it to death" you do realize the mono shoots a S9 ordanance, which helps double your chance of penetrating armour, but the hole at the center of the template counts as AP1. Against a L. Raider you have a 1/3 shot of glancing, 1/3 shot of penetrating, and if you pen., you have a 50-50 shot of wrecking it, doesnt seem so bad to me. Now Im sure your a swell guy so if you ever come to Madison area come to the Last Square and Ill let you have a shot @ the drop crons, you might be surprised. Who knows maybe I can convert you to being a Necron fan.

Gavvin
08-10-2009, 04:41 PM
I might have to dust off my Necrons and try this. <shrug> who knows, it might be fun....

Chumbalaya
08-10-2009, 05:23 PM
I'm actually quite the happy go lucky fella. I care a lot about the competitive side of 40k and really wish people would wise up and start playing good armies (or at least using their crappy armies well ;) ). The majority of my games are friendly, just throwing together a fun themed list or whatever I have lying around, but when it's money time I don't mess around.

Unit counters isn't just theoryhammer, that's how tournies work. Flamers are crucial in 5th edition with cover to prevalent and many ways to get bad guys bunched up nicely, as are any weapons that ignore cover. Boosting scarabs mean nothing to flamers, who not only ignore their 2+ save, but also do double wounds! Bloodcrushers are garbage exactly because they can't handle Dreads, very little in the Daemon army can handle vehicles at all for that matter, which is why it's so bad (that and their stupid deployment rules). If you don't know what units counter yours and how to counter the counter, you've got problems.

The Monofail has its neat pie, until you realize it has to choose that or its teleporter and even then S9 is still not very reliable against AV14. 6 to pen, 4+ to destroy, or 5 to glance and 6 to destroy. Bad odds for a single shot. So they can't kill high AV, and if up against tons of light AV they can only destroy 3 at a time. And even if they all focus on popping a single Raider, you don't get to re-roll WBB or teleport dudes and get punished.

Drop Crons would be a fun army, like my foot Orks or any Daemon list, but I wouldn't be caught dead bringing it to a tourney.

Also, call outs are lame, try again.

Dan-e
08-10-2009, 08:55 PM
Personally i have seen an army of 3 full squads of scarabs, 3 full squads of tomb spiders with scarabs in each, and the required Lord and 20 warriors. The army killed, but not because of the army list, but because people make smart choices like not charging a unit that dies against flamers against the very thing, the point of the army is to have to make the opposite choose what to kill, because odds are they are going to die, but due to the WWB nature of the army they have to commit a lot of fire to make sure they stay dead, leaving other units safe.

I mean sure Fire your Tanks into the scarabs, that will only let the Immortals and the Monoliths have free range of options, or focus on the Monoliths and the warriors, the little ones will die easy and the monolith may go down but its easy to replace and their are more warriors to be killed. Finally go after the Immortals, ignore the scarabs, and the warriors and monoliths and lose objectives or get over run by fire & swarms.


Consider the fact that some people play an army for fun, and going to an tournament with a "sub par" list just to screw with people who don't expect it is fun. I personally play necrons regardless of how crummy the Codex is in the new rules, i can still win if i play well and make good choices on the table, list has little to do with it. The game is played on the table and in the Dice, not in the list and Codex.

Chumbalaya
08-10-2009, 10:37 PM
Yeesh, you'd have to be playing a brain-damaged ape to win with that, or have weighted dice.

People will use what they want in a friendly setting, that's kinda the point. In a tourney, bringing a weaker list isn't going to throw good players off, it's a gift. By all means go ahead if you are confident enough in your abilities, the player wins the game, not his list. But, between players of comparable skill, the good list wins every time unless the dice screw him over.

Redhanded
08-11-2009, 02:25 AM
I think we can all confer that necron players must be more and more caluclulating in 5th ed, in which case this drop cron list is very difficult to talk tactics about considering it should be played situationally.

I've seen lists like this work. I don't think you really realize how tough deepstriking liths are, especially counting as moved at cruising speed, giving them excellent defence against melee attackers.

One key point about drop crons is they are resistant to phase out considering the enemy will have less time to kill enough 75% crons. Even more so, the necron player will be able to position the warriors/liths to be outta harms way.

If everything deepstrikes well and the cron player is able to start leaping warriors in and out of each monolith, makes for not only a very confusing rest of the battle, but a near constant pour of rapid fire and particle whips.

Some of the most competitive drop crons lists I've seen have made use of a large unit of scarabs, and destroyer units held in reserve to support the incoming warriors/liths.

I assure you all, drop crons are a force to watch out for.


I care a lot about the competitive side of 40k and really wish people would wise up and start playing good armies (or at least using their crappy armies well ).

Whoa! watch out what you say. someone could go out and ard boyz with SoB next season, anything is possible and most lists are viable in the hands of a good player. Despite some lists having inherit disadvantages in 5th ed due to the weight of the codex stack, people have been able to make things work just as well as ever. Try not to be so blind when you make such rediculously arrogant accusations.


But, between players of comparable skill, the good list wins every time unless the dice screw him over.

Do you even hear yourself? That is certainly NOT the case; there are so many other factors that play into it than that. jeez, every gaming group should have a clown like you.

Chumbalaya
08-11-2009, 07:00 AM
I think we can all confer that necron players must be more and more caluclulating in 5th ed, in which case this drop cron list is very difficult to talk tactics about considering it should be played situationally.

I've seen lists like this work. I don't think you really realize how tough deepstriking liths are, especially counting as moved at cruising speed, giving them excellent defence against melee attackers.

One key point about drop crons is they are resistant to phase out considering the enemy will have less time to kill enough 75% crons. Even more so, the necron player will be able to position the warriors/liths to be outta harms way.

Necrons players have to play smarter by default, but there's only so much they can do within the limitations of the Codex.

Monoliths are tough, but they are easy enough to ignore and go after the meat of the army. All those points sunk into Monos are points wasted, as you're better off getting more Necrons or units that can actually do some damage and threaten high AV.

You say resisant to Phase Out, I say bots coming in piecemeal to get killed that much faster.


If everything deepstrikes well and the cron player is able to start leaping warriors in and out of each monolith, makes for not only a very confusing rest of the battle, but a near constant pour of rapid fire and particle whips.

If you teleport, you get no particle whip. And for all that teleporting stuff, you get a bunch of bolter shots. How exactly is that scary? Lots of competitive armies have mobility in spades, so even teleporting around isn't going to be a problem. And even if you can't destroy the Monos, just surround them with combat troops so the portal can't be used and you get to flail away with your powerfists (lol).


Some of the most competitive drop crons lists I've seen have made use of a large unit of scarabs, and destroyer units held in reserve to support the incoming warriors/liths.

Destroyers are always a good addition, maxing out on them >>> Monofails any day. Scarabs make for a nice tarpit, but they won't be destroying vehicles any time soon.


I assure you all, drop crons are a force to watch out for.

lol no


Whoa! watch out what you say. someone could go out and ard boyz with SoB next season, anything is possible and most lists are viable in the hands of a good player. Despite some lists having inherit disadvantages in 5th ed due to the weight of the codex stack, people have been able to make things work just as well as ever. Try not to be so blind when you make such rediculously arrogant accusations.

You do know SoB is really good right? Player skill is always the main factor, but playing a gimped army like Necrons or Tyranids has you at a disadvantage against better armies.


Do you even hear yourself? That is certainly NOT the case; there are so many other factors that play into it than that. jeez, every gaming group should have a clown like you.

No, I don't hear myself type (unless you count click-click-clack ;) ). Personal attacks too eh, guess you're done making an argument, weak as at may have been. With players of equal skill, dice and lists tend to determine results. The guy playing Failcrons will lose to the guy playing Marines, IG or Eldar unless some stupid 'Ard Boyz-esque scenario comes into play or the dice feel like being jerks.

Darkwynn
08-11-2009, 07:26 AM
No, I don't hear myself type (unless you count click-click-clack ;) ). Personal attacks too eh, guess you're done making an argument, weak as at may have been. With players of equal skill, dice and lists tend to determine results. The guy playing Failcrons will lose to the guy playing Marines, IG or Eldar unless some stupid 'Ard Boyz-esque scenario comes into play or the dice feel like being jerks.

Even still depending on the scenarios the Necrons are too slow to get into position to grab things or even contest it. Monoliths don't have the ability to make that last turn objective grab....

Destorys give you mobility and that is what Necron's need. Actually the only thing that might play great into Necron's is Kill points but you can't make a mistake and you have to mass fire just on one unit to kill it and if the opponent is mech... your up the creek hoping for luck on hitting that very far right of the bell curve.

Norbu the Destroyer
08-11-2009, 09:40 AM
Well Chumbalaya you are entitled to your opinion, but I dont know how much I can believe you when you say Bloodcrushers are garbage. Also, that Deamons arent competetive, did you see some of the 'ard boyz results, deamons qualified in several semi-finals. This thread was for someone curious about trying drop crons, anyone can go on a thread and look at a list and tear each unit apart but it does nothing to further the game. When people try odd lists a lot of times they find situations that they would never have expected and they learn something new. When I fought @ ard boyz vs a demon army my scarabs glanced its cc arms off and my mono contested the center objective and the other player had no way of knocking it off. Drop crons are viable, and fun, and that is the point of 40k, not to tear players lists apart.

L192837465
08-11-2009, 10:17 AM
Necrons players have to play smarter by default, but there's only so much they can do within the limitations of the Codex.
With players of equal skill, dice and lists tend to determine results. The guy playing Failcrons will lose to the guy playing Marines, IG or Eldar unless some stupid 'Ard Boyz-esque scenario comes into play or the dice feel like being jerks.

Wtf? That's like saying "my car will get me to where I want to go unless the engine decides to crap out". Way to make a horribly objectionable comment that makes you seem like an idiot.

No two people are of equal skill. I've seen 10 year veterans make the dumbest mistakes in a game, and I've seen the greenest noob make some of the most brilliant plays. The game is 90% chance, 8% generalship, and 2% army. Give an expert player a "crappy" army and I will almost guarantee he will either give you a run for your money or slaughter you outright.


Guess I should comment on the actual thread:

Drop Crons seems like it would be a ridiculously fun army. Either that or horribly powerful, I'm not sure which.

Chumbalaya
08-11-2009, 10:40 AM
Well Chumbalaya you are entitled to your opinion, but I dont know how much I can believe you when you say Bloodcrushers are garbage. Also, that Deamons arent competetive, did you see some of the 'ard boyz results, deamons qualified in several semi-finals. This thread was for someone curious about trying drop crons, anyone can go on a thread and look at a list and tear each unit apart but it does nothing to further the game. When people try odd lists a lot of times they find situations that they would never have expected and they learn something new. When I fought @ ard boyz vs a demon army my scarabs glanced its cc arms off and my mono contested the center objective and the other player had no way of knocking it off. Drop crons are viable, and fun, and that is the point of 40k, not to tear players lists apart.

Daemons and Necrons qualify for the top spots, that's a good indication you've got a fail tourney on your hands.

Bloodcrushers come on monster bases, have to deep strike on said bases, move like infantry, and get beat down by a 105 point Dreadnought. How anybody could think that is an effective unit is beyond me, but it's exactly what I'm trying to discourage. Deploy in vehicles, spread out infiltrators as a buffer, spread your deployment out to deny them advantageous Deep Strike zones, bring Mystics, it's not that difficult.

Encouraging people to play crap lists hurts the game because people will take said crap list because BoLS says it's great and get stomped by good armies. Nobody likes a one-sided game, I'd much prefer everyone learn how to play better and build better armies so we can have a competitive tourney scene instead of letting scenarios, shady TOs, cheaters, and poor players/lists make it far.

Sounds like the person you played sucked lol. Running a DS army against Daemons negates your main advantage (vehicles, mobility, and deploying defensively) and Necrons won't be able to hide from Fiends, Bloodthirsters, and the like.

The point of 40k is to have fun, so what's fun about watching special olympics lists run across the board at each other? Fun, themed armies are great for friendlies, story-driven scenarios and Apocalypse/Planetstrike. But that's where they belong. In a tourney setting, we need to see good armies or you get punished for it.


Wtf? That's like saying "my car will get me to where I want to go unless the engine decides to crap out". Way to make a horribly objectionable comment that makes you seem like an idiot.

No two people are of equal skill. I've seen 10 year veterans make the dumbest mistakes in a game, and I've seen the greenest noob make some of the most brilliant plays. The game is 90% chance, 8% generalship, and 2% army. Give an expert player a "crappy" army and I will almost guarantee he will either give you a run for your money or slaughter you outright.

90% chance? Get a clue man. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Throwing your models on a table, pushing them across with a shovel and chucking dice at things is not competitive, it's not even fun. If a 10 year Veteran is making dumb plays, then he's a bad player. If the noob makes good plays, he's a good player. Length of time playing has nothing to do with it, though the Vet should be more likely to know what's going on. An expert player with a crap army will stomp a crap player with some netdeck list, because he's the better player. An expert with a crap army will lose to another expert with a good army. Part of being a good player is knowing which units are good and how to make a strong army. Good players aren't running bad armies unless they're playing friendlies or looking for a challenge (or strapped with a stupidly restrictive comp system)


Drop Crons seems like it would be a ridiculously fun army. Either that or horribly powerful, I'm not sure which.

Fun sure, if your definition of fun is turtling behind your castle of tanks and hoping you don't die too much is fun. Not horribly powerful, just horrible.

Redhanded
08-11-2009, 10:44 AM
No two people are of equal skill. I've seen 10 year veterans make the dumbest mistakes in a game, and I've seen the greenest noob make some of the most brilliant plays. The game is 90% chance, 8% generalship, and 2% army. Give an expert player a "crappy" army and I will almost guarantee he will either give you a run for your money or slaughter you outright

I hear ya there. The greatest thing about 5th ed is it is more and more like a game than ever. Its less about what you have and more about how you apply it. Players are literally in the game till the very last turn! Any army can beat any other army, especially when considering objectives and such.

4th ed was all about building a pts effective killing machine, where a unit was only worth if it could get its points back. Which left alot of units and even codex in the cold. In 5th ed, balance is power and the list that can function in more than just a brute force setting is usually a strong force.


Encouraging people to play crap lists hurts the game because people will take said crap list because BoLS says it's great and get stomped by good armies. Nobody likes a one-sided game, I'd much prefer everyone learn how to play better and build better armies so we can have a competitive tourney scene instead of letting scenarios, shady TOs, cheaters, and poor players/lists make it far.

If competition is the only thing you see about a game, then I guess now is the time for me to point out that 40k isn't just a game. Most all standard RRT tourneys have sportsman and painting scores for a reason. Theres more to this than just trying to be the greatest little plastic people player.

FirstLegion
08-11-2009, 10:49 AM
Don't worry everyone, Chumbalaya is best left ignored.

Tarion
08-11-2009, 11:09 AM
Have to say I'm with Chumbalaya here. Trip-Lith is horribad. It can win, yes. But the same player would do much, much better if he used

a) An army that wasn't cripplingly out of date (Much as I <3 Necrons, they're just too far behind IMO. Combat resolution = Fail. Glancing hits = Fail.)
b) A unit that didn't work directly against the core mechanics of the army.

Take both of those points together, and even if you still decide to use Necrons, try to get with the times. Monoliths lead to phase out. They don't do much damage, so wasting their time pie-plating is a mistake. Instead, they just teleport and Res their troops. WBB has so many ways of discounting it that even that's unreliable - You can't retry your WBB if you don't get it in the first place.

Instead of Monoliths, Heavy Destroyers should be present (so you can actually blow tanks up without having to strip all their weapons, immobilise them and then damage them again).

The only reason lists like this place is if people

a) don't bring vehicles (And since Mech essentially autowins Tyranids, Necrons and Daemons, that seems like a silly= choice)
b) Panic when seeing the big chunks of plastic hitting the board
or
c) Try to play despite severe braindamage

(Just FYI, I suspect its a and b causing the issues)
If competition is the only thing you see about a game, then I guess now is the time for me to point out that 40k isn't just a game. Most all standard RRT tourneys have sportsman and painting scores for a reason. Theres more to this than just trying to be the greatest little plastic people player.I don't see where attempting to have the most competitive list is contrary to being a good sportsman and having a well painted army. In fact, I don't get your point at all.

Redhanded
08-11-2009, 11:37 AM
I don't see where attempting to have the most competitive list is contrary to being a good sportsman and having a well painted army. In fact, I don't get your point at all.

I'm just saying that theres more to it than just gaming. BoLs does an excellent job of trying to prove that. Some folks arn't out to be the world's top gamer, and according to Chum, they should either be more like him or get out of the game. No decent person should approve of that. i'm sure you can see that point.

Darkwynn
08-11-2009, 11:48 AM
Encouraging people to play crap lists hurts the game because people will take said crap list because BoLS says it's great and get stomped by good armies. Nobody likes a one-sided game, I'd much prefer everyone learn how to play better and build better armies so we can have a competitive tourney scene instead of letting scenarios, shady TOs, cheaters, and poor players/lists make it far.

Chumbalaya, that view is skewed. Because one person has put a list up under Necrons and you want to lay waste to the site? No one said the list was great in any sense and you already have two people from BOLS who agree that Necrons are horrible in 5th edition with Monoliths. Stop spouting that nonsense that Nerd Rage Andy puts up and stop trying to say that BOLS puts up crap list or tactica because of one writer you have a beef with.

Most of the time the guy has no idea of what he is talking about outside of 40k to begin with and even then it’s a tight line. I am just tired of nonsensical bull**** that comes out and then B team cool kids try to act all big and bad like Andy juniors....

I swear it’s like the big bully in middle school wanting to play with everyone but get pisssed off when no one wants to included or talk to him. Sure go ahead send it to Andy I am sure he is going to post some crying post again and Goatboy and I will have a good laugh over Dinner.

BOLS has many people who are part of the group and that is one thing that makes us different because we can have hundreds of different views on the same exact subject.

Now get over it and move to something more important like building a community instead of trying to tear it down by pulling stupid ****.

Chumbalaya
08-11-2009, 11:57 AM
I'm just saying that theres more to it than just gaming. BoLs does an excellent job of trying to prove that. Some folks arn't out to be the world's top gamer, and according to Chum, they should either be more like him or get out of the game. No decent person should approve of that. i'm sure you can see that point.

That's not what I'm saying at all. Of course 40k the hobby encompasses more than the game, I'm talking about a specific facet of the game: playing competitively. Drop 'crons was such a success at 'Ard Boyz, so that's what we're talking about.

If you don't want to play a competitive game, then don't. If it isn't fun for you, you aren't forced to participate. I'm a horrible painter, so I don't enter painting competitions. It's the same with tourneys. Comp scores and painting scores take away from it. How would you feel about entering a painting contest where in addition to judging based on your art, you also had to have the models fight each other? Or how about getting docked points because you paint too well? Sportsmanship shouldn't be a number, it needs to be encouraged by the TOs and players involved. Currently, giving your opponent a subjective sports score is basically inviting you to get revenge on somebody who just beat you or to raise/lower somebody's standings. If TOs were more active in walking the floors, making sure people weren't idiots, and encouraging sporting play it wouldn't be necessary. Same goes for players, rather than take it, dish out your revenge score then ***** on the forums about it, take some responsibility and call people out on cheating, social engineering, bullying, and so on.

And this whole competitive = dickhead thing is moronic. I play for fun, to have a good time in some friendly competition. Just because I appreciate a competitive game between two good generals with powerful armies doesn't make me some kind of seal-clubbing kitten-drowning powergamer. People say that like it's a dirty word. Dickheads will be dickheads, and you have them all across the spectrum. How about those Golden Daemon cheaters? Or some chump flipping out over your Space Marine army because it has the wrong company markings? The guy who responds to any sort of challening fight with cries of "cheese!"?

I don't assert any way of playing as inherently superior to the other, I know what I like and recognize that other people may not. You want to play competitively? There's a right and wrong way to do it. Drop 'crons is horribly wrong. Getting all huffy when somebody tells you it's wrong, explains why, then offers advice on how to improve it is wrong. You can play it in friendlies, but don't expect it to fly in a competitive setting. Learn something, challenge your ideas, and come out with a better understanding of it all.

Rant mode off, jeez that was a long one.

@bushido: I would say something, but I bet the BoLS secret police would come take me away. lol triple Monoliths.

+++Adding in new stuff+++


Chumbalaya, that view is skewed. Because one person has put a list up under Necrons and you want to lay waste to the site? No one said the list was great in any sense and you already have two people from BOLS who agree that Necrons are horrible in 5th edition with Monoliths. Stop spouting that nonsense that Nerd Rage Andy puts up and stop trying to say that BOLS puts up crap list or tactica because of one writer you have a beef with.

Most of the time the guy has no idea of what he is talking about outside of 40k to begin with and even then it’s a tight line. I am just tired of nonsensical bull**** that comes out and then B team cool kids try to act all big and bad like Andy juniors....

I swear it’s like the big bully in middle school wanting to play with everyone but get pisssed off when no one wants to included or talk to him. Sure go ahead send it to Andy I am sure he is going to post some crying post again and Goatboy and I will have a good laugh over Dinner.

BOLS has many people who are part of the group and that is one thing that makes us different because we can have hundreds of different views on the same exact subject.

Now get over it and move to something more important like building a community instead of trying to tear it down by pulling stupid ****.

I've said before I don't have a problem with BoLS. They put up great hobby material, painting, rumors, homebrew stuff, and the like. It's great and I applaud them for it. Tactics and such, beyond Goatboy I just don't see how it compares to the high quality of their other work.

As for the whole Andy thing, yeah I agree with a lot of what he says. And sometimes ranting can be fun ;) I'm part of BoLS too, I'm part of a couple different communities and I try to get people over this "competitive is the devil" hump they have going on. I will help build up a community, a community that embraces all aspects of the game where we all hold hands and sing koombaya. To do that, we need to address the problems in said community and fix them. BoLS has the hobby side covered fairly well, but the competitive side is still a bit lacking.

I guess it's just an internet thing or I'm bad at conveying my sense of humor and way of speaking. I don't hate or nerd rage or whatever, it's just observations that I think are funny and commentary to amuse myself. So yeah, sorry if anything came out wrong, it's just one of those things I'm very passionate about.

Jwolf
08-11-2009, 12:21 PM
Goodness, what a lot of heat over not all that much content.

If you want a top-table tournament force, you aren't going to be trying to figure out which Necron choices get you there. Necrons aren't a top-table army, no matter the choices in it. Since our theoretical Necron player is already at a disadvantage, we'll have to give him the best choices if we want him in the top half of a competitive field. While the 3 Monolith wall can be effective against some builds and armies, it doesn't meet the criteria of the best choice - too many points that don't help against Phase Out.

I'm always amused that people think their views of the best list are going to be the best for all players. That's simply not true, and more demonstrates a lack of broad experience than anything. I get good value out Possessed CSM, but the tubes will tell you they're awful and never take them.

What's even funnier is when someone thinks my "bad" decisions bad their good decisions not work. Lists aren't made in a vacuum, so making choices in my list is partially about making my list more effective and partiallyabout making your list less effective. Sorry I didn't spam Rhinos so your min-sized units with Meltas in Rhinos were ineffective? Good times.

I don't mind Chumbalaya's certainty that he's right - better to have strong feelings than none. I do think that the message gets lost in the noise some times, but where better to learn how to express yourself effectively than in fan forums?

Darkwynn
08-11-2009, 12:27 PM
And its good you are passionate about it Chumbalaya and I agree with a lot of things your saying. If you were down here for Bols Con I would take you out and buy you a beer. Big thing right now it takes a lot of time to write and its put solid strong articles out about tactica.

Its really not directed at you but mabye that just one point about the centric view that is being generated by some people that is driving me nuts .

Redhanded
08-11-2009, 12:27 PM
Chum, I have absolutely no problem with being competitive, god knows I've agreed with a large number of your points in this thread alone. However, in this particular case its not the points you make, its how you sell them.

FirstLegion
08-11-2009, 12:41 PM
Triple monolith has it's place, but a tournament is not it (unless you don't care about winning).

The list I'm working on incorporates using destroyers as efficiently and often as possible. It's not going to win any tournaments, but it might annoy some people into submission.

FirstLegion
08-11-2009, 12:43 PM
Goodness, what a lot of heat over not all that much content.

If you want a top-table tournament force, you aren't going to be trying to figure out which Necron choices get you there. Necrons aren't a top-table army, no matter the choices in it. Since our theoretical Necron player is already at a disadvantage, we'll have to give him the best choices if we want him in the top half of a competitive field. While the 3 Monolith wall can be effective against some builds and armies, it doesn't meet the criteria of the best choice - too many points that don't help against Phase Out.

I'm always amused that people think their views of the best list are going to be the best for all players. That's simply not true, and more demonstrates a lack of broad experience than anything. I get good value out Possessed CSM, but the tubes will tell you they're awful and never take them.

What's even funnier is when someone thinks my "bad" decisions bad their good decisions not work. Lists aren't made in a vacuum, so making choices in my list is partially about making my list more effective and partiallyabout making your list less effective. Sorry I didn't spam Rhinos so your min-sized units with Meltas in Rhinos were ineffective? Good times.

I don't mind Chumbalaya's certainty that he's right - better to have strong feelings than none. I do think that the message gets lost in the noise some times, but where better to learn how to express yourself effectively than in fan forums?

This.

Chumbalaya
08-11-2009, 01:38 PM
And its good you are passionate about it Chumbalaya and I agree with a lot of things your saying. If you were down here for Bols Con I would take you out and buy you a beer. Big thing right now it takes a lot of time to write and its put solid strong articles out about tactica.

Its really not directed at you but mabye that just one point about the centric view that is being generated by some people that is driving me nuts .


Chum, I have absolutely no problem with being competitive, god knows I've agreed with a large number of your points in this thread alone. However, in this particular case its not the points you make, its how you sell them.

Yeah, I can totally dig that. One man's humor is another's flamefest. I'll work on it, but no promises;)

I'm generally always coming from a competitive POV, so it may seem like I'm harsh on friendly/fluffy armies and expansion play, but it's mostly because I don't feel the knowledge base for those are really lacking. BoLS and other places pretty much have it covered. It's the tactics and list building people have the most trouble with, so that's where I do my thing.

@jwolf: Working with what you're most comfortable with (or in my case, what I can afford to field) is your best bet. But you can't deny that some units, options, and general builds are stronger than others. It's that way with any strategy game. You can toss a curve ball, but you better know exactly what you're doing to get any mileage out of it. I've seen the lists you've posted and my knee jerk reaction is "blarg, this sux" but it depends on the strength and attitude of your opposition and your skill. I'm going from a neutral perspective, not sure what everyone's style and level of skill is but steering them along the path of figuring just why certain lists are better than others, how they work within the system, and eventually to get comfortable enough in the system to blaze your own trail. It's getting there that people get hung up over, and there's where I try and come in to make life easier.

ZenPaladin
08-11-2009, 03:29 PM
So this is the list that's doing well at Ard Boy's?

It seems like its esentialy a version of the Go BIG idea that bushido is throwing around. Personaly I just could never bring myself to bring three mono's to anything thats not Apoc. I mean I would grone at someone who brought three Land Raiders. Just cuz the Cron's are not so hot isn't really an excuese I would think.

Though oddly enough I do have three mono's... can't wait to try the Nodal Grid.. >:)

I was kind of hoping for a magic bullet of some sort. And I can see how this is some what survivable. But I'll agree with some that it seems not so competative in the end.

The warriors have to come out of a portal if that's the selected entry.. and only one can come out at a time.. and you can't fire the whip or teleport if they do. The fact that you loose the ability to chose what to do with your mono can be a serious disadvantage. Sometimes you need it to get the whip out and destroy some assult marines or a tank. Sometimes you need to port a badly shot up/assulted unit to safty. And you might just find yourself out of luck if a unit of warriors needs to come in.

Three portals also means three units in at a time. Quickly pulling them out of reserves and into a field where they are dangerously outnumbered.

As a side note @ Chumb. It was Bushido's necron tactica that got me onto BoLS and I'm very glad it did. I've read a few of your comments and posts and a lot of the things you say come off very caustic and mean spirited. But reading these more recent ones has made me feel that you have legitment points to make and a completly valid view. Might wana work on the style of your posts though.

Nabterayl
08-11-2009, 04:12 PM
You know, I haven't played against this, but in its defense, three monoliths does maximize your warrior placement flexibility in the early turns of Reserve rolling. By corollary, if you have a monolith that you feel you must whip with, you need to roll three squads of warriors coming in before you're forced not to do so, and the odds of that happening are fairly small, (it's fairly small odds-wise in the middle turns, and by the latter turns you're unlikely to have three squads of warriors left in Reserve in the first place). So the advantage here isn't just survivability; it's a way to pair the survivability of keeping warriors in reserve with the flexibility of still getting to choose what one or monoliths does with its power matrix. In a single-monolith list you'd have to pick one or the other; in a drop crons list, you reach a middle ground.

avatar8481
08-13-2009, 11:04 AM
You know, I haven't played against this, but in its defense, three monoliths does maximize your warrior placement flexibility in the early turns of Reserve rolling. By corollary, if you have a monolith that you feel you must whip with, you need to roll three squads of warriors coming in before you're forced not to do so, and the odds of that happening are fairly small, (it's fairly small odds-wise in the middle turns, and by the latter turns you're unlikely to have three squads of warriors left in Reserve in the first place). So the advantage here isn't just survivability; it's a way to pair the survivability of keeping warriors in reserve with the flexibility of still getting to choose what one or monoliths does with its power matrix. In a single-monolith list you'd have to pick one or the other; in a drop crons list, you reach a middle ground.

It should be trivial for a decently mobile mech list to avoid the liths and destroy the warrior squads as they come on, eventually phasing out the army since so much of it will be tied up in non-necron models.

ZenPaladin
08-14-2009, 11:02 AM
I see Nabterayl's point though. The ability to pop the squads out of any of the three mono's does help you put them where they will be in the least danger.

Also you could spin the mono to teleport a suqad out of a trouble spot to the other side of the mono wall formed by them. Esentialy pulling them not just out of hand to hand but out of los of shooters as well.

Admitedly though a heavy asssult army could simply swarm the mono's leaving the warrior squads little to no place to go. But I can see how chasing the warriors with a balanced force could be difficult or even dangerous while, Destroyers, C'tan and pie plates rain down.