1850 Black Templars

[Aristocrap]

I'm putting together my Black Templars army, but I'm somewhat unsure if my setup needs work or not.

HQ:
Emperor's Champion - 140
Accept any Challenge

Elites:
Assault Terminators (6) - 258
Pair of lighting claws x4, thunder hammer/storm shield x2
Furious Charge
+ Land Raider Crusader - 268
Smoke launchers

Troops:
Crusader Squad #1 (9) - 151
6 Initiates w/ bolt pistols/close combat weapons
3 Neophytes w/ bolt pistols/close combat weapons
Power fist, meltagun
+ Rhino - 58
Extra armour, smoke launchers

Crusader Squad #2 (10) - 167
7 Initiates w/ bolt pistols/close combat weapons
3 Neophytes w/ bolt pistols/close combat weapons
Power fist, meltagun
+ Rhino - 58
Extra armour, smoke launchers

Crusader Squad #3 (10) - 167
7 Initiates w/ bolt pistols/close combat weapons
3 Neophytes w/ bolt pistols/close combat weapons
Powerfist, meltagun
+ Rhino - 58
Extra armour, smoke launchers

Fast Attack:
Land Speeder - 75
Multi-melta, heavy flamer

Land Speeder - 75
Multi-melta, heavy flamer

Land Speeder - 75
Multi-melta, heavy flamer

Heavy Support:
Preadator Annihilator - 148
Lascannon sponsons, smoke launchers

Preadator Annihilator - 148
Lascannon sponsons, smoke launchers

Total: 1846

I was wondering if it'd be more useful to have a las/plas squad in a Razorback to hold an objective and provide extra firepower rather than the last CC squad.

[MarshalAdamar]

I play Templar's A LOT, it’s my primary army so I’ll give you my .02$

First: For this army list going with out a Marshal is suicide.

All the crusader squads are LD8 because you can’t take a Veteran Sgt. And if they take a single casualty from shooting; even just one, they have to test Moral. If they fail they fall back; if they pass you can stay put or Zeal but this makes them TERRIBLE at holding objectives

The “advantage” of the zeal move is negated because you want them to hold still and capture objectives so you only have the down side left which is in turn 5 your opponent can cause an objective holding unit one casualty; you can fail LD 8 and fall back losing the objective AND or give your opponent a kill point because when the game ends that unit is “falling back”


The addition of the Neophytes makes them more likely to take a casualty and it cuts down their effectiveness in the assault.

Remember that your Neophytes DO NOT get the benefit of the Accept any challenge to matter the odds Vow so they do no reroll failed rolls to hit.

The EC is cool, and his Vow is the only one worth its salt but where are you going to put him? He’s best leading a unit of crusaders, either on foot as a mass of 10 initiates and 10 neophytes or charging from a LRC.

If you’re trying for a static Templar’s army (which does not play to its strengths) you need a Marshal so that all your units test with LD 10. Otherwise you’re in for a frustrating game of watching your units break fall back, regroup move back into position then rinse and repeat.

Or watch a whole unit get herded off the board by a transport with no guns because your opponent keeps it with in 6” of your falling back unit.

I would think about getting rid of a Predator Annihilator and a Land speeder to start

Add in a Marshal, and take one unit of crusaders out of the Rhino and put them on foot for a full 20 man squad.

The Marshals LD of 10 will mean that you pass most Zeal checks and will get to grips with the enemy pretty fast.

Alternately you can put the Marshal, Champ and a bunch of crusaders in the LRC. Equip the Marshal with a teleport homer

Run the LRC up jump out and assault and use the Teleport homer to bring in the Terminators where you want them with out the scatter

OR you can arm up the marshal with terminator armor drop the 6th regular terminator and add in the marshal with TH/SS and put them in the LRC

If the Rhino squads are for objective camping I would consider giving them a missile launcher, make it 5 and 5 Initiates and Neophytes and have them fire the rocket launcher from the hatch of the Rhino while sitting on the objective.

Or turn one of the Rhino squads into the Las plas with razor back.

This list can work but you need to make sure you use the big scary terminator unit carefully If you keep your opponent busy with shooting at the Predator and the speeders and mired in an unwinnable assault with terminators he won't have much to spare to try and knock your objective campers off their objectives.

Just my two cents

Templar’s are REALLY good at one thing. Getting into the enemy grill and chopping them to bits in the name of the Emperor

So I would focus on that.

The land speeders are great at getting rid of enemy armor and popping transports so your crusader squads can get to work.

I have found that a crush of rhinos with choppy guys on board can be effective. Jump out and bolt pistol the target and hang around. Usually your opponent will change the crusaders because it’s better for him than getting charged. BUT it means that if you win combat you have the change to wipe out the squad and move freely on your turn so it can work out.

I hope this gave you some food for thought and helped some what on tweaking your army list.

[Aristocrap]

Well, this isn't a static army so you don't have to worry about that. Then again, what proper BT list is?

I know Neos don't benefit from vows; AAC in this case, but they're useful for freeing up points elsewhere and allocating power weapon (and other armor-negating) wounds to.

I don't see the Marshal as 100% necessary here, as my troops will be in Rhinos and CC for much of the time, and thus safe from ranged shooting. If I was taking a static fire support/objective holding squad, I'd consider him.

My EC rolls with the 9-man Crusader squad in a Rhino. I thought others would figure it out at first glance.

I've been considering a las/plas squad in a Razorback or Rhino bunker, though I'm wondering how much it'd really help the list.

[MarshalAdamar]

If the army is not obective camping I would not worry about the Las plas razor back, the speeders have plenty of anti armor punch and each squad has a melta gun so armor should not be a probelm fo you.

As for the Marshal... I've not had any luck with out him. After you kill the squad your in cc with your opponent wil have a free round (uaually) to shoot at you and that can be bad. But if it works for you it will save a ton of points by leaving the Marshal behind.

There is a Ton of anti tank in the list, do you face a lot of armored opponents? 7 melta weapons and 6 las cannons. I think that might be a little over kill you might knock that down a little and make all the crusasder squads initiates so that all the models have 3+ save and they will all benifit from the Vow.

Thats the best advice I can probably give you on that one.

[Aristocrap]

Well, how bout this?

HQ:
Emperor's Champion - 140
Accept any Challenge

Elites:
Assault Terminators (6) - 258
Pair of lighting claws x4, thunder hammer/storm shield x2
Furious Charge
+ Land Raider Crusader - 268
Smoke launchers

Troops:
Crusader Squad #1 (9) - 169
9 Initiates w/ bolt pistols/close combat weapons
Power fist, meltagun
+ Rhino - 58
Extra armour, smoke launchers

Crusader Squad #2 (10) - 185
10 Initiates w/ bolt pistols/close combat weapons
Power fist, meltagun
+ Rhino - 58
Extra armour, smoke launchers

Crusader Squad #3 (6) - 117
6 Initiates w/ bolters
Powerfist, plasma gun
+ Razorback - 78
Extra armour, smoke launchers

Fast Attack:
Land Speeder - 75
Multi-melta, heavy flamer

Land Speeder - 75
Multi-melta, heavy flamer

Land Speeder - 75
Multi-melta, heavy flamer

Heavy Support:
Predator Annihilator - 145
Lascannon sponsons

Predator Annihilator - 145
Lascannon sponsons

Total: 1846

I found points to replace the Neos with Initiates, as well as fit in another Speeder. (Unsure if it's really necessary, though) The last Crusader squad will stick inside of the Razorback for the majority of the game, popping out only to defend whatever objective they're on.

[MarshalAdamar]

Looks good, I think that could work. I like it. you might think about taking out one predator and one speeder and having ANOTHER unit of 10 initiates. I think that the razor back makes a good objective camper. I think between the predator and the two speeders you have the anti tank covered plus you'll have another melta gun in the crusader squad.

use the squads to blow up enemy armor up close and use the predator and the speeders to take out enemy armor that tries to hide! I like the list, the more I look at it I think it could be very successful.

Over all it looks solid now that we have all genitically engineered super soldiers in the rhinos.