Daemonhunter 'ard Boyz list

[DarkLink]

Figured I'd put up my 'ard boyz semi-finals list for critique. A similar version served me pretty well in round 1, though I didn't have any Seraphim at the time.


HQ
Grand Master
Psychic Hood, Storm Shield
Retinue: 4 Terminators
1 Thunderhammer/Storm Shield

Brother Captain Stern
Retinue: 4 Terminators
1 Thunderhammer/Storm Shield

Troops
10 Grey Knights
Justicar w/ Frag Grenades

5 Inquistorial Stormtroopers
2 Meltaguns, Rhino

10 Sisters of Battle
2 Meltaguns, Veteran, Book of St Lucius, Combi-melta, Rhino

10 Sisters of Battle
2 Meltaguns, Veteran, Book of St Lucius, Combi-melta, Rhino

Fast Attack
8 Seraphim
2 Hand Flamers, Veteran, Book of St. Lucius, Brazier of holy fire, Targeter


Heavy Support
Land Raider (Godhammer)
Extra Armor, Dozer Blades, Smoke

Land Raider (Godhammer)
Extra Armor, Dozer Blades, Smoke

Land Raider (Godhammer)
Extra Armor, Dozer Blades

[PRoeske]

First of all,your list seems to be illegal, as you can only take 1 Grey Knight hero in your force. You could swap Stern for a regular brother captain though, and move him to elites.

With the +- 80 points you have left by then, buy an inquisitor woth 2 mystics, hierphant and a psychic hood. Hoods are just awesome in the game.

Further, consider swapping 1 of those sister units for an IG blob squad with a commissar. Equip the PCS with quad-flamers and a chimera. (allies, which should be allowed at ard boyz, right?).

GL

Pim

[DarkLink]

Stern's the only way to get a second GK Hero in. Specifically, Stern is a separate unit entry from the Grey Knight Hero, and so the GK Hero 0-1 restriction doesn't apply to him.

I already have a psychic hood on the Grand Master (though I keep taking it, but no one I've faced uses psychic powers:rolleyes:). I also don't have the models for a pair of mystics. However, that might be a good idea, to try and squeeze them in. That way I could get another Rhino to act as mobile cover, as well as having the deepstrike protection.

And yes, allies are allowed:D. Unfortuantely, I don't own enough IG models to get much from them. In round 1, I borrowed some and had some allied Guard, but I won't have that opportunity now. So any IG stuff is out.

[PRoeske]

Lol, completely missed the hood on the Grand Master :P.

About using Stern, never looked at him that way. Might be useful to take him in that slot, as he is a very nice character fot the points.

Maybe just drop 1 terminator from the Stern squad. It gives you enough points to buy an elite Inquisitor /w 2 mystics, leaving you with 10 spare points. Otherwise drop the 5 stormtroopers with equipment. Leaves you the rhino you want for the inquisitor, and you could buy some decent armour for the inquisitor, or 1 or 2 psycannons on the grey knights. Psycannons are just awesome against most deepstriking units, light transports, MC's and more. not because of the ignore inv. saves, but because they're S6.

Grt. Pim

[DarkLink]

Yeah, that's Stern's main use. Though I haven't had the best of luck with him. It's my GM that's pulled all the weight:rolleyes:.

Anyways, I unfortunately need the Stormtroopers, as Allied troops don't count towards your minimum requirement. I would replace them with an elite Inquisitor if I could. They are a nice unit for holding abandoned objective, though. And funnily enough, they're the only squad that survived every single game in the 'ard Boyz Round 1. They even kept me from completely losing the first game.

I would prefer to keep the full squad size on the GKTs, but I'll have to play around with the numbers a bit. We'll see if it's worth it to drop one.

I'll also see if I can fit in an Incinerator or two. I definitely like them, I've just been trying out all-storm bolter units lately.

[thecactusman17]

I don't think targeters are available to Seraphim, and at 12" I'm not certain how useful they will be anyway---if you're having that much trouble judging distances in 'Ard Boyz, a Targeter isn't going to help anyway. Remember, you can only ever use it in the shooting phase. If you want to pre-measure, the ability is built into the seraphim list. They have a 12" bubble of Ld buffing that affects your other Sisters. Measure that, then use it as a comparison.

[DarkLink]

I don't think targeters are available to Seraphim, and at 12" I'm not certain how useful they will be anyway---if you're having that much trouble judging distances in 'Ard Boyz, a Targeter isn't going to help anyway. Remember, you can only ever use it in the shooting phase. If you want to pre-measure, the ability is built into the seraphim list. They have a 12" bubble of Ld buffing that affects your other Sisters. Measure that, then use it as a comparison.

Yeah, that was just point filler. And it seems you are right, WH don't get Targeters. Oh, well, no big deal. Only 1 point.

[Tynskel]

I like this list. I think it is a good mix of inquisitorial groups. To me, this is the way that Inquisitional Forces are supposed to be used.

I like that you are taking two multi-wound HQ Characters. That's good. Be Careful how you use Stern's re-roll ability-- that can be more helpful to your opponent than it can be to you!

[DarkLink]

Heh, to be honest, I've forgotten to use Stern's reroll in every single game I've played with him.

In fact, come to think of it, I've had him Perils on at least two occations, and/or take wounds from armor saves, something that could have been easily avoided by a simple reroll. Man, I need to remember that rule in the future. Besides, maybe my opponent will forget to use it, just like I do:rolleyes:.


Anyways, yeah, I like the layout of this list, even if I don't personally feel that combined Inquisition stuff is particularly fluffy. I'd rather have pure GKs, and pure Sisters.

Regardless, having a trio of GK units in Land Raiders makes a great hammer, especially with the Grand Master and Stern buried in there. The Land Raiders work great as long range AT, then let me counter assault as I please.

The Sisters then hold objectives, bolter and melta stuff, and just go crazy. Seraphim in particular are pretty much there just to mess with my opponent, as they can be really, really annoying to deal with as I can give them 3+ invulnerable saves, and they can bounce around the board thanks to their special version of Hit and Run.

The stormtrooper squad is just there to blow up a tank, and/or try to survive. They're cheap, so I can afford to leave them on an objective all on their own if the situation calls for it. And my opponent usually ignores them, so they do their job pretty well.

My biggest concern is the flamer to melta ratio. Sisters excel with lots of flamers, but I need their meltaguns. And GKs can put out a ton of wounds with Incinerators, but this can sometimes do too much damage and cause them to whipe their target out and leave them out in the open. I wish I had some more time to play around with this to see if anything better works, but it's finals week for me so I'll only have maybe one practice game.

[Pil]

Sorry for asking this if it is completely noob, but can you take Inquisition, Demon Hunters and Sisters together in a list? I have not seen these armies very much, actually only twice out of all the tournaments I have played in. The 2nd time I faced Demon Hunters was in this years Ard'Boyz. Not many people in my area are very familiar with them and it turned out the list at our Ard'Boyz prelim was illegal and caused some real headaches. I have read through a lot of the codex now, and thought there was something about not being able to have all 3 in the same list.

About your list, you have almost 800 points tied up in heavy support. That seems like a lot to me especially as easy as Land Raiders go down now. It will be interesting to see how it holds up against some competitive Nid or Ork list. I think even Blood Angels will out number and out gun you. What armies did you face in the prelims out of curiosity.

[DarkLink]

Codex WH and DH have rules for allying units around. They're kinda complicated, but 'ard boyz has a good summary of what you're allowed to do in their packet.


As for the Land Raiders, since 5th ed came out I've more or less exclusively played Grey knights, and I've always spent between 25-50% of my points on Land Raiders. It's rarely been a problem.

In fact, it's more of a problem to spend fewer points on Land Raiders, I've found. In games with only one (or at this points level two) land raiders, and relatively little other support, they die easily and accomplish little. Taking 3, however, is very effective in such a high points game.

Plus, GKs need Land Raiders. As in, they cannot play competitively without Land Raider spam. They simply don't work competitively if you don't take lots of Land Raiders. This is, after all, the codex that's been at the very bottom of the pile since long before Necrons got nerfed when 5th came out.

Very rarely, there is an occasional game where the opponent just gets ridiculously lucky and blows up a bunch of Land Raiders in a row. But at this points level, I have enough other stuff where that can happen and I still have a chance of winning.

[Tynskel]

I completely agree.

Grey Knights do not have any transports other than land raiders. Now compound the situation that they don't have access to weapons like Lascannons except for Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders-- both of which are Hv Support options.

Rhinos for Inquisitorial Troopers do not count: The Grey Knights cannot start in them, and trying to fudge around can back-fire. It is easier to mount them in the Vehicles of mass destruction: The Land Raider.

The nice thing is that Grey Knight Land Raiders get the benefits of the Grey Knight codex (if you choose to buy the upgrades) and the benefits of the current Space Marine Land Raider Rules.

If you deep strike Grey Knights, you lose the ability to claim. Also, you have to buy the teleport homers to ensure their arrival safely. Next, the deep striking units do not have weapons that can deal with Transports/Tanks the turn they arrive. The guys that carry the Teleport Homers are either the Storm Troopers, which will die horribly really quickly-- or more Grey Knights--- how did the Grey Knights get up so the others can teleport in? Probably in a Land Raider--- at which point, why not buy a land raider, and now you have a claiming squad again...

Grey Knight Dreadnoughts also suffer from no delivery mechanism. They could use drop pods (or the Stormraven!). If you are going to take expensive dreadnoughts that have anti-tank weapons, you might as well take the transport that delivers a hammer blow quickly, and can deal with anti-tank.


Overall, I think DarkLink has the right idea. A nice mix of units. An Armored Spearhead with 10 Terminators and 10 Veteran Marines. Sisters to back up with a bolter line. A 'scout squad' Storm Troopers to harass and claim an ignored objective. And, finally, an annoying assault squad that will tarpit things like Thunder Hammer Terminators, and escape things that you want to shoot (like Genestealers) with the best form of Hit n' Run.

There's just enough Faith Points to make the Sisters useful. There's enough Grey Knights to hammer blow, and there's enough variety of anti-tank to take care of armor.

Wielding the army will be difficult, but it's can work.

[Pil]

Nice post guys this thread has been very helpful. I think I personally do well against Land Raiders because of lance weapons and so many units that get 2d6 to pen, and the Land Raiders don't have the fire power to do much against T6 W6 creatures. Anyways thanks again for all the insight I will put it to good use.

[Tynskel]

There are some issues. Bright Lances are nice, but it is the melta that is scary.

The Land Raider will put some wounds out on T6 6W creatures.
However, Grey Knight Terminators are WS5 and have Str6 Power Weapons-- Plus the both of his Grey Knight Heros (at Initiative 5) have Nemesis Force Weapons- which flat out remove the model (strict codex reading in 'Ard Boyz) after the psychic test. Those are Str6 as well.


As a well experienced Tyranid Player, I have found that Grey Knights can handle the big beasties quite well--- its the swarms that they have problems with.

On that note, I do think you should probably stick an incinerator in each Grey Knight Squad. Just 3-- that's 3 Super Hv Flamers.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, I've been debating about where to get the points for a few incinerators. I'll probably put two in the GK squad, as Terminators don't really need them too much, I've found. We don't have many 'nidz players locally, so all my anti-horde experience comes from facing Orks, and GKs can deal with orks pretty well on the charge, even if you don't take Incinerators.

Or I might just find the points to put an incinerator in each squad.

And on a side note, losing Land Raiders is a common thing with this type of list, that you just have to deal with. Land Raiders provide their worth by blowing up transports at the beginning of the game, then delivering GKs into assault. If they do that, they've done their job. If they happen to survive long enough to, say, contest an enemy objective, that's just a bonus.

[Tynskel]

Ya know, I was thinking-

You could put three incinerators into the Grey Knights squad. That's the same price as putting 2 into a Terminator squad. (or do 2 in the Grey Knights and one in a Terminator squad- personally, I don't like the Storm Shield on the Grey Knight Grand Master- you might have had better experience than me, but I think it would be better to give the squad an incinerator, or give the GM an Icon of the Just).

[DarkLink]

I keep the GM in the Terminator squad because they follow the old retinue rules. If I split the GM off and took a separate Terminator squad, I'd lose that protection. Though in smaller games when I don't have a retinue, I have done the 3 Incinerator combo before:D.

As to the Storm Shield, it's a cheap 4+ save for the GM. It might only work against one opponent per round, but most of the time the biggest threat to a GM is, for example, that one guy with a Power Fist. So most of the time getting a 4+ save against one opponent is good enough.

Plus, since a DH Storm Shield "counts as a single handed weapon", and Nemesis Force Weapons are also single handed weapons with no special restrictions as with Power Fists and the like, you get +1 A.

[Tynskel]

Oh, I didn't mean get rid of the retinue, he needs the retinue to survive! I was just talking about giving him an incinerator.

Hah- I never noticed that the Storm Shield was a single handed weapon! What a funny way of getting +1 A! :) With that, I agree- don't get rid of the Storm Shield!

Funny, I know some people who buy their Grand Masters 'Artificer Armor' so they can get the 2 CC weapons from the Storm Bolter and Nemesis Force Weapon (and to chase squads down), but they have to buy an 'Icon of the Just' to get an Invulnerable Save (although, buying the Icon of the Just is purchased a lot of the time, anyhow). The Storm Shield isn't a bad way to do it.

Have you thought about giving the GM 'Hammerhand' Psychic power? I have seen people use that as an instant 'oh crap- Dreadnought' ability. Not to mention, busts open tanks in CC.

[DarkLink]

Oh, I didn't mean get rid of the retinue, he needs the retinue to survive! I was just talking about giving him an incinerator.

Oh, Terminator squads only get one incinerator, so you could only get two total, with one on the GM. I've found that I very rarely have a potent enough target that they can survive both a couple of incinerators and a charge from the GKTs, though, so I rarely take incinerators on GKTs.



Hah- I never noticed that the Storm Shield was a single handed weapon! What a funny way of getting +1 A! :) With that, I agree- don't get rid of the Storm Shield!

Funny, I know some people who buy their Grand Masters 'Artificer Armor' so they can get the 2 CC weapons from the Storm Bolter and Nemesis Force Weapon (and to chase squads down), but they have to buy an 'Icon of the Just' to get an Invulnerable Save (although, buying the Icon of the Just is purchased a lot of the time, anyhow). The Storm Shield isn't a bad way to do it.

Yeah, one of those funny little quirks of an old codex:D. If it weren't for how cool a 3+ invuln is, and how much the current codex lacks in other areas, I actually wouldn't want an update because we have some old rules like this we get to abuse (old force weapons, unlimited range psychic hoods, etc).

Incidentally, I don't think AA is a legal upgrade for a GM. It doesn't have a * next to it, meaning it can't be taken by models in Terminator armor. I think.



Have you thought about giving the GM 'Hammerhand' Psychic power? I have seen people use that as an instant 'oh crap- Dreadnought' ability. Not to mention, busts open tanks in CC.

I have, but don't think I have the points for such a situational ability. Stern has it built in, an I put a THSS in each squad to (hopefully) deal with walkers.

[Tynskel]

hmmm...

I know the * is for Terminator Armor, but you are technically exchanging Terminator Armor for the Artificer Armor--- like in 3rd/4th edition you upgraded to Terminator Armor, you don't wear both the Power Armor and the Terminator Armor, even though you technically never got rid of the Power Armor.

The newer codexes are much clearer about those silly things.

Hey, if Stern has it, you'll probably be fine-- I assume that those two squads will be buddies and help each other out anyhow.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, I once played against Bjorn, who managed to assault my Grand Master's squad (I hadn't taken to using THSS's at the time). I had to assault in with Stern to try and free them up, which Stern eventually did:D.

Funnily enough, it actually worked out well for me. It was a killpoints game, and I had four killpoints locked in with Bjorn that my opponent couldn't touch. He couldn't shoot them, and he was playing razorback spam so he didn't have enough hard hitters that could assault in and kill of 8 GKTs, Stern and a Grand Master. And, when I finally did kill Bjorn, I got a bunch of killpoints off of him, so it worked out in the end.

Since then, though, I've started taking the 1 THSS per squad, as a bit of insurance. And its a good way of ID'ing characters and Nobz:D.