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Sanguinary Dan
06-03-2010, 11:21 AM
Blood Angels 1750 point army
for general gaming / all comers
HQ
Commander Dante - with Sanguinary Guard

Elites
Furioso Dreadnought Librarian (Wings of Sanguinius & ???) w/Extra Armor - usually in Stormraven
Brother Corbulo (Sanguinary High Priest) - with Razorback RAS
Brother Constantine (Sanguinary Priest) w/Jump Pack & Powersword - with Dante or RAS

Troops
Sanguinary Guard w/Infernus Pistol, Power Fist & Chapter Banner
RAS-10 w/Thunder Hammer & 2 Melta Guns
RAS-5 w/Power Fist, Hand Flamer, Melta Gun and Razorback w/twin Heavy Flamers & Hunter-Killer Missile

Fast Attack
VAS-6 w/Jump Packs, Thunder Hammer & 2x Lightning Claws

Heavy Support
Stormraven w/Typhoon Missile Pods & Locator Beacon - on the table or regular Reserves, DS has been way too arrive->fire->get shot down for my tastes.

Based on the rest of the army should I give the FL an offensive shooting power or Fear of the Darkness or something else? I've had good results with FotD, but it's not really viable against every enemy.

A few folks have said I've got a bit too many "toys" in this list, but I just don't see it. Since 1 HQ, 2 Elite, 3 Troops, 1 FA and 1 HS doesn't seem all that toy-ish to me. The next step is to use this as the core for 1850, 2000 and 2500 point lists. The 1850 jump is the toughest since 100 points makes for a really limited choice of units that will still make sense at 2000 and 2500. Maybe just increase the size of the VAS?

Tynskel
06-03-2010, 11:56 AM
for the jump to 1850--- add one more Vanguard Veteran and equip all models without a specialist weapon a power weapon to the assault squad (90 points). Add Extra Armor to the Storm Raven (15), Switch the Powerfist in the Razorback to a Power Weapon and Melta Bombs (-5) = 100 points.

Yes it doesn't really add any wounds (1 more in the 100 point change). But 7 Assault Veterans Charging with 6 Lightning Claws, 16 Power Weapon, and 3 Thunder Hammer Attacks should be quite successful (especially if there is a priest nearby).

I do like the power you are using on the Libby- if you switch it, I would change to another one of the Shooty powers. Smite is good, blood boil is fun too. If you take the Frag Cannon, it is a fun to combine with Smite or Blood Boil, although Sanguine Sword will give you the Str 10 again--- which is good.

Sanguinary Dan
06-05-2010, 06:57 PM
I think I'm morally opposed to equipping every single member of a unit with weapons I've got to pay extra to have.

I'm thinking more along the lines of dropping one of the VAS for enough points to add another Dreadnought. Probably a Rifleman or even another basic Furioso.

Herald of Nurgle
06-05-2010, 07:37 PM
You could at least add a few changed to the VAS so that you can pull the 'wound allocation trick'.

Alternatively... maybe getting another unit of RAS just to get more bodies on the table would be a good plan.

DarkLink
06-05-2010, 09:48 PM
A few folks have said I've got a bit too many "toys" in this list, but I just don't see it.

Ignore them. Playtest the list, and if it works it works.

I play with lots of Land Raiders, and lately I've been using a Grand Master with a Terminator retinue, and Stern with a Terminator retinue. Between them and the Land Raiders, it comes out to about 1200points. A lot of people would probably say I've got too many eggs in one basket. I'd say... actually I wouldn't say anything. I'd ignore them, because they clearly don't know what they're talking about, because I get results with them. Those units work. And they do so consistently.

Practice is greater than theory, and I have found that in practice, having all your eggs in one (or maybe two) basket(s) can work (though there are cases where it doesn't).





...anyways...

The lone two razorbacks are kinda vulnerable looking. And Storm Ravens kinda require a bit of something to throw in your opponent's face for a turn or two to maximize effectiveness. I'd say those are the two big weaknesses of the list, personally.

Sanguinary Dan
06-05-2010, 11:49 PM
Does it make it more vulnerable that I've actually only got 1 Razorback? :o

I've decided to drop the 1850 point level from consideration. So I'm looking at going from 1750 to 2000 and then 2000 to 2500.

Blood Angels 1750 point army mk.II
for general gaming / all comers
HQ
Commander Dante

Elites
Furioso Dreadnought Librarian (Wings of Sanguinius & Blood Lance) w/Extra Armor
Brother Corbulo (Sanguinary High Priest)
Brother Constantine (Sanguinary Priest) w/Jump Pack & Power Sword

Troops
Sanguinary Guard w/Infernus Pistol, Power Fist & Chapter Banner
RAS-10 w/Thunder Hammer & 2 Melta Guns
RAS-5 w/Power Sword, Infernus Pistol, Melta Gun in Razorback w/twin Heavy Flamers & Hunter-Killer Missile

Fast Attack
VAS-6 w/Jump Packs, Thunder Hammer & 2x Lightning Claws

Heavy Support
Stormraven w/Typhoon Missile Pods & Locator Beacon

This list vaporized a Black Templar army on Thursday night. The VAS and FL were magical in how quickly they wiped away a bunch of Sword Brethren Terminators and their LRC transport.

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Blood Angels 2000 point army
HQ
Commander Dante

Elites
Furioso Dreadnought Librarian (Wings of Sanguinius & FotD) w/Extra Armor
Brother Corbulo (Sanguinary High Priest) - with Razorback RAS
Brother Constantine (Sanguinary Priest) w/Jump Pack & Powersword - with Dante or RAS

Troops
Sanguinary Guard w/Infernus Pistol, Power Fist & Chapter Banner
RAS-10 w/Thunder Hammer & 2 Melta Guns
RAS-5 w/Power Sword, Infernus Pistol & Melta Gun in Razorback w/twin Heavy Flamers & Hunter-Killer Missile
DC-6 w/Bolters, Power Fist & Power Sword

Fast Attack
VAS-6 w/Jump Packs, Thunder Hammer & 2x Lightning Claws
Land Speeder w/Heavy Bolter & Typhoon Missile Pods

Heavy Support
Stormraven w/Typhoon Missile Pods & Locator Beacon

I'm pretty happy with this list at 2k, but the next step is the killer. Do I add more boots, more tanks, more Dreads, more wacky toys to go to 2500? Should I blow the whole pot on going to a big jump DC lead by Lemartes? I'd be a little more certain if I'd gotten to play in the 'Ard Boyz a few weeks back, but since I missed it I'm not really sure where to go with those 500 points. I'll re-arrange war gear a bit but will not drop any units.

Any suggestions?

Tynskel
06-06-2010, 01:01 AM
With one razorback, that are ways to mitigate the issue.

Target priority is a way to muck around with that. Encourage your opponent to shoot something more pressing that's harder to destroy--- this is done by how the units threaten your opponent.

Overall, DarkLink is right-- play test around-- you have a solid list at the moment, and probably minor style issues that can only be worked out through playtesting.

For example--- this list is nothing like my style, so I generally don't like it- however, I do see a nice mix of forces able to easily reinforce each other-- so it is a good list.

Connjurus
06-06-2010, 01:09 AM
I'd suggest you should incorporate Astorath into there - attach him to your DC the way they are, kit'em out with jumppacks, then spend the last few points you'll have left as you see fit. Your Priests can't be everywhere, and this way every unit in your army that is subject to TRT will have Furious Charge on a 1-3.

It's what I'd do, anyway.Let Dante and his Sanguinary pimp squad be the skirmishers, but send Astorath and his Death Company bad boys hunt down those MCs/HQs. I've had quite a bit of success with this, using some "counts as", since I want to use the Blood Angels to represent a Night Lords force. Lemartes is good, but he only benefits the squad he's attached to - and since TRT doesn't give you the Rage USR anymore, well, take advantage of it.

lowdog
06-09-2010, 12:54 PM
I would give the Libby Dred Wings and Shield of Sanguinius. Since the Shield is used on your opponent's shooting phase, you can use both powers in a single game turn (the entry says you can only use one power per player turn). The Shield will increase your survivability (and that of nearby units and vehicles), and you probably want to be using the Wings power over a shooting power to get into combat.

Sanguinary Dan
06-09-2010, 01:58 PM
@Conjurus: Though exceptionally cool to use, the model is heinous in a way only the old Lemartes can match. Astorath is not a choice I'd make outside of APOCALYPSE where I can justify multiple large jump DC anyway. One 20 man jump DC with Astorath and another with Lemartes would be magic.

@lowdog: I've yet to use the Shield at all. And while I agree that the FL is a good place for it, I don't see it unless I have another Librarian in the army. In a larger game where I've got an Epistolary and the Furioso or two Furioso Librarians I will give it a try.

As to the RAS in the Razorback, will I be better off replacing that with a jump unit or just something with better firepower?

DarkLink
06-09-2010, 03:11 PM
I'd try giving them jump packs. Your opponent's AT weapons won't have anything but infantry models to shoot at, that way. And a Storm Raven, but that's going to die anyways.