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Cyndr
06-05-2010, 12:32 AM
Been lurking around this site for a while and recently purchased a Nightspinner grav tank for my lovely Eldar forces. Just wanted to see what others might think of this list.

HQ:
Farseer:
- Doom

Farseer:
- Singing Spear -REMOVED-
- Spirit Stones -REMOVED-
- Doom
- Guide -REMOVED-

Elites:
Striking Scorpions: (x10)
- Exarch
+ Power Claw
+ Stalker
Wave Serpent:
- TL-Bright Lances
- Spirit Stones

Troops:
Dire Avengers: (x10)
- Exarch
+ Dual Avenger Shuriken Cat.
+ Blade Storm
Wave Serpent:
- TL-Bright Lances
- Spirit Stones

Dire Avengers: (x10)
- Exarch
+ Dual Avenger Shuriken Cat.
+ Blade Storm
Wave Serpent:
- TL-Bright Lances
- Spirit Stones

Rangers: (x5) -REMOVED-
- Pathfinders -REMOVED-

Rangers: (x5) -REMOVED-
- Pathfinders - REMOVED-

Guardian Squad: (x10)
- Eldar Missile Launcher
- Warlock
+ Embolden
+ Singing Spear

Guardian Squad: (x10)
- Eldar Missile Launcher
- Warlock
+ Embolden
+ Singing Spear

Guardian Squad: (x10)
- Eldar Missile Launcher
- Warlock
+ Embolden
+ Singing Spear

Heavy Support:
War Walker: (x3)
- Scatter Laser (x2 each)

Fire Prism:
- Shuriken Cannon -REMOVED-
- Spirit Stones
- Holo-Fields

Night Spinner:
- Shuriken Cannon
- Spirit Stones
- Holo-Fields

I figure the way I'll play this one out is more or less defensively. Far Seer will go with one of my DA squads. Pathfinders are meant to either sit on objectives, or more likely, near a home objective, and cause pinning tests, as well as try to pick off any lone IC/MC units that might stray into the line of fire. Guardians are also meant to stay back, probably near an objective, and likewise cause more pinning tests on an advancing enemy, or secondarily plink away at armor with the EML. The Serpents filled with DAs and Scorps will be more of a reactionary force to jump any portion of the enemy army that might get separated or weakened. Secondary job for them will be anti-tank with the TL-Lances. Also will be great for gaining late game objectives and for coming to the aid of the Guardians and Pathfinders if they need it. War Walkers come on from the sides and cause general havoc, pop light transports, and/or shoot stuff sitting on objectives. Since this will probably be the side my Serpents go after for follow up/mop up, there is a good chance I may be able to guide them as well. Fire Prism has the obvious anti-armor role, while the night spinner sits back in a supporting role. I plan to use it mostly for light transport popping/holding or horde mutilation. The dangerous terrain checks will be what I'm looking for here, more than direct damage from it's main guns.

Let me know what you think.

Chexmix282
06-05-2010, 12:15 PM
Th scorpions should have a Claw, S3 Chainsabres just don't cut it. I think that your Guardians would be better off with Embolden over Conceal, as in 5th its easy enough to get a cover save for anything and you don;t want them fleeing off the board for losing a few guys.

I would replace the Night Spinner with a Prism, they work so much better in pairs. If not i'd replace the prism with a Night Spinner. Then i'g give them Spirit Stones and Holo-Fields.

Cyndr
06-05-2010, 10:53 PM
Ok... I can see the strength on the scorps being a bit wimpy. I'll add in the Biting Blade to remedy that, especially since it costs the same amount. I can also see putting embolden on my locks. Which leaves me with enough points to add spirit stones to both of my HS grav tanks.

I am honestly not worried about being short on AT power on this list, so I think I'm going to stick with the prism and spinner. The lone prism will still do just fine, not to mention I have 3 sets of TL-Lance weapons for anything too big. I generally save the "big" gun for last anyway, just in case it would be better to blast troops that have come out of the wreckage of something my serpents cracked open.

Holo-fields are more costly than anything I'm willing to drop without a legitimate reason at this point, so I'll see how they fair without.

Chexmix282
06-05-2010, 11:08 PM
The second Fire Prism is not for AT firepower, ifs for a S7/AP3 Twin-Linked large blast. In a pinch you can use the S10/AP1 for stuff like Monoliths, as i don't see anything else (other than your lone Singing Spear) that can penetrate one in your list.

I love the Night Spinner, it's one of the coolest model's in the Eldar Range IMO. It's rules leave something to be desired, however, and i strongly suggest that you swap it for a second Prism. Dropping 3 Pathfinders (making them 1 unit of 7) will pay for Holo-Fields, an upgrade that i reccomend to the fullest extent, as it will greatly improve the survivability of your HS vehicles.

With the points you save by dowgrading Conceal to Embolden you can put a Biting Blade and a Scorpion's Claw on your Exarch for increased utility.

dvs1
06-10-2010, 02:33 AM
Nice hybrid list you have, in a time where you the meta game swings heavily towards all mech or foot. I'm not the biggest fan of pathfinders though. In my experience, both rangers and pathfinders kill next to nothing equally well and i gave up on spending more points then i have to for them. Mainly I just use cheap ranger squads to grab late game objectives. Also, if they start to attract ap3 and below shooting, just go to ground with them. True, they can't do jack next turn but at least they have the save of a pathfinder at a reduced price. EML's in the guardian squads is the only other thing i would think about. I normally do not care for one shot weapons because bs3 means you will be missing half the game. Scatter lasers or shuriken cannons are my personal weapons of choice. lots of shots means more chances of them actually hitting. Almost as good at popping light transports. I think two prisms are great, but one is almost as good. To have a night spinner on the board instead would definitely be worth it. It helps to keep your opponent hampered while your fast skimmers run circles and wolfpack their army piecemeal.

Cyndr
06-10-2010, 07:41 AM
I think I'm just going to edit my OP with the changes I'm considering in red or something, just so I don't end up with anther long post with very similar content. But here is a list of things to supplement that.

1. Remove 1 squad of pathfinders, downgrade remaining squad to rangers.

2. Add another squad of 10x guardians with EML and a Lock.

3. Remove Shuri-Cannon upgrades from Prism and Spinner. Add Stones and Holo-Fields.

4. Remove Singing Spear and Stones from Farseer.

5. Remove Chain Sabres from Scorp Exarch. Add Biting Blade.

6. Use Embolden on the three Locks accompanying the guardian squads.

This comes to 2000 on the dot.

dvs1, I am thinking that I agree with you on the ranger/pathfinder issue, hence adding another guardian squad. However, I like the versatility of the EML, and plan on primarily using it against troops whenever possible, so if it drifts, I'm ok with it. The krak missile will be bonus flexibility, and most likely not be the primary use of the squads. So I basically traded a low shot squad for a high shot count (at close range) squad, with anti-transport and anti-horde fllexibility, while retaining the ability to pin. With 3 templates flying around each turn I will end up overlapping targets anyhow, so I get multiple chances to hit (like you said... take em apart piecemeal).

Thats the plan with the Night Spinner as well. 4 other skimmers on the board, all of which carry anti-armor firepower should be good (I don't see monoliths often, just because of the meta game in my area, so worry not chex ;)).

Not a fan of taking two weapons on a character because it makes him too expensive to lose, not to mention that you have to decide which one you want to use in combat.

I prefer the hybrid list. Love the flexibility that it can potentially have if formulated correctly. Always surprised that nearly all of the lists I see are one way or the other, but I guess that also comes down to the way you enjoy playing too.

Great feedback so far, thanks a lot guys. KEEP IT COMING!

Splug
06-10-2010, 10:50 AM
With that many guardians, is there really any need for the one squad of rangers at all? You've got plenty squads that can sit back and pop off missile launcher rounds or go to ground, with a reroll on leadership. The rangers will average something like one cover save and one armor save caused per turn, and are only unstoppable until someone drops a flamer on them.

What squad is the farseer planning to join? Obviously that's flexible, but most likely you'll want him to have spirit stones for the extra cast, and possibly pick up fortune as well; they're all strong spells, and getting two per turn is in my opinion one of the key elements that lets the Eldar army function at all.

I'd go with the scorpion claw over the biting blade personally. The squad's perfectly capable of maiming lightly armored infantry by right of the other 9 guys, but any time you hit some flavor of marines there just isn't any light armor on the other side of the table. Having that ignores armor swing is absolutely critical in that situation. You will be less effective against a stationary vehicle (S6 vs S8 on the charge), but if it moved at all the blade is right back at S6 on average.

dvs1
06-10-2010, 12:08 PM
i think no stones and no second power on the farseer could work. Just take two bone cheap with just doom a piece. Thats two different units getting doom'ed a turn with all that shuriken and scorp chainsword goodness flying around. I used to run a list very similar to this, but redundancy was the key to it. I took two of everything, keeping things as cheap as i could to put more bodies on the board so that no matter what my opponent shot at, I'd have another ready to pounce. With the advent of the spinner, i may just give it another go.

Splug
06-10-2010, 12:29 PM
That's true; I've had some success with doomseers as well, but then why pay for guide? About the only place you'll use guide over doom is if you're on top of the war walkers, or banking on twin linking a guardian's missile because no transports are open to doom yet. Right now, that farseer really doesn't have a defined role, and he's not particularly strong at multi-tasking either. I'd recommend either stripping one spell and giving him a clearly defined role, or toss in the extra 20 points to multi-task.

Cyndr
06-10-2010, 08:41 PM
Good points. Dropping the rangers might be a plus, and also gives plenty of points to run a second Doomseer. Love that idea. They will be running with the two DA squads to enhance the Bladestorms, with a potential Scorp follow up. The EMLs can even soften them up first too.

Leaves me with 35 points. The only reason I'm a bit skittish about the claw is that I1 scares the crap out of me to be honest. But I guess it could be worse. I have never actually run him with a claw before. Guess it couldn't kill me to play test it for a few games and see what I think.

This also leaves me with enough points to put a Shuri-Cannon on my Night Spinner. Since it should never get near anything, I think it is the better choice. At 2k on the dot again.

dvs1
06-10-2010, 10:51 PM
As long as you exarch is in his squad, your opponent would have to wipe em out to get to the I1 claw. IMO the claw is somewhat superior to the chainsabres as they are both a PW, and offer a strength increase.

Cyndr
06-11-2010, 08:12 AM
Original post re-updated.

Splug
06-11-2010, 10:56 AM
Keep in mind also that you'll be replacing the shuriken pistol with the claw. You still have the scorpion chainsword to use at I6 (they're both special weapons due to that +1 STR, so you're not forced to use the fist) if you're hitting something like ork boyz or gaunts, where their armor is light enough that you don't care about armor saves and just want to kill them before they swing.

Son_of_Osiris
06-11-2010, 02:43 PM
Hey, I like where this list is going. Maybe consider droping the warlocks in each guardian squad to free up even more points. With that many units with that many warlocks, its almost an investment to buy them at 25pts base.

Also consider grabbing runes of warding for your seer. Its one of the best 15pts out there.

If you dropped the warlocks from each squad, and the rangers, you can almost afford a squad of dragons in a WS. just something to think about.

Cyndr
06-11-2010, 03:17 PM
Looks like I forgot to edit out the other ranger squad. That was actually removed previously (now fixed in OP). Sorry about that.

The Locks are there to keep the Guardians from running away, since they are minimal squads, it will not take a whole lot to make them do that, and they do no good to me if they turn tail.

In this list, I've got plenty of tank killing ability, so the Dragons would be highly redundant, not to mention expensive. Yes I could use them against MEQ special characters and terminators, etc., but they still have to make it through an absolutely withering barrage to get to my troops as it is.

Son_of_Osiris
06-11-2010, 03:47 PM
I agree that you have reasonable anti-tank, though single shot str 8 weapons (even lances) can only take you so far. Dragons were just a suggestion of something you could have gotten with points from the warlocks and other things.

I've run three squads of warlock-less guardians alot in 5th ed. The best defense that they have is that there are 3 squads of them. The re roll LD is cool, but you must admit that it is expensive to get.

Cyndr
07-02-2010, 07:42 PM
I'm convinced that god hates me. First opponent I faced were black templar. So those lances of mine were not helping me as much as they should have been. Multiple AV 14 targets that are immune to the lance rules with terminators inside are, in a word... Dangerous.

So I decided to drop my walkers and throw in the second prism. Still no guarantee, but chances are much better with this set up to be able to at least put a little threat on the blessed hull LRs. This leaves enough points to also give each wave serpent a shuri-cannon also, which replaces some of the lost firepower of the walkers.

Everything performed exactly as I expected in the rest of the list. Even got a glance on one of the LRs with a singing spear before the termies decided to come out and play kickball with my guardians.


Should have a rematch coming up as well. Might even be able to correct some of the stupid mistakes I made early in the game.