1.75k Tyranids

[Fizyx]

Tell me what you think: 1750 points

Tyrant
-TL Devourer
-Hive Commander
-Old Adversary
-Armored Shell
-Adrenal Glands
-1x Tyrant guard

Swarmlord
-1x Guard

10x Genestealers
-Scything Talons
-Toxin Sacs

10x Genestealers
-Scything Talons
-Toxin Sacs

2x Hive Guard

2x Zoanthrope
-Mycetic Spore

6x Warriors
-Boneswords
-Adrenal Glands

Venomthrope

20x Termagants

Basically, I use the Termagants/Venomthrope to screen what is on the field in the beginning. I will set up both HQs near-ish the center of the table in the hopes that my opponent leaves something juicy within outflanking range of the two genestealer broods and the warrior brood (thank god for Hive Commander.)

Any thoughts? I'll be playing it soon, so I'll let you know how it goes. I don't expect it to be perfect, but I'm going to see what works and what doesn't in an effort to head a different direction than the popular 'nid lists.

[Tynskel]

I take it that you are keeping Lashwhips on the Tyrant? Personally, I like using a Thorax Swarm in combo with the Devourer--- what Psychic powers are you using? It is fun to fire 3 weapons at your opponents, then charging them with re-rolling to hit Instant Death Weapons and Lashwhips.

Another thing I like to do is take a Sky Slasher Swarm tooled up for CC. Take just 3 Bases-- ~70 points- if they die, they didn't shoot something else. They fly with the Tyrant (and because the tyrant is in a squad, you get a cover save!). 15 Re-rolling to hit Poison Str4 Attacks is nasty-- especially when the enemy is Initiative 1! Or you can fly them behind the tyrant, and because they fly- pop over and charge the same time the Tyrant Charges.

You could squeeze that unit in if you ditch the Scything Talons on the Genestealers and just a couple of Gaunts.

You have that power the Swarmlord has to make a unit to re-roll to hit- I wouldn't worry about genestealers/Warriors not being able to hit.

[Son_of_Osiris]

They fly with the Tyrant (and because the tyrant is in a squad, you get a cover save!).

Hey, could you explain this to me? Are you speaking in regards to the tyrant having tyrant guard behind the sky swarm?

[Tynskel]

Normally Swarms cannot give MC cover saves (that's in the special rules section ~p.75). However, with the tyrant attached to the tyrant guard, the cover saves are dependent on squad rules (see shooting section).

[Son_of_Osiris]

In regards to the list.

The swarm lord and tyrant might be a bit too much for 1750. Consider dropping the tyrant in the interest of bulking out some of your other units and adding more. two paroxysm would be pretty cool though.

Maybe consider going with lashwhips + boneswords, and toxin sacs on the warriors. Your warriors are just fine the way they are, though lash whips are almost two good to go without, especially when coupled with a biomorph. Theres only a few units in the game that warriors with lashwhip/bonesword can't

Maybe drop the venemthrope or find points to bulk up the squad. One venomthrope is a nice target for all the str 8 that most armies can pack at 1750+ level. With points form the thrope you could bulk out your screen as well.

Also consider gargoyles as a screen, they may not be troops but they have a ton of advantages ranging from being a larger screen model to hide behind to being able to actually threaten units if given a biomorph for a single point each. Termigants can get it done, but gargoyles would be something to ponder and try out. I swear by gargoyles in bulk.

[Fizyx]

I take it that you are keeping Lashwhips on the Tyrant? Personally, I like using a Thorax Swarm in combo with the Devourer--- what Psychic powers are you using? It is fun to fire 3 weapons at your opponents, then charging them with re-rolling to hit Instant Death Weapons and Lashwhips.

Another thing I like to do is take a Sky Slasher Swarm tooled up for CC. Take just 3 Bases-- ~70 points- if they die, they didn't shoot something else. They fly with the Tyrant (and because the tyrant is in a squad, you get a cover save!). 15 Re-rolling to hit Poison Str4 Attacks is nasty-- especially when the enemy is Initiative 1! Or you can fly them behind the tyrant, and because they fly- pop over and charge the same time the Tyrant Charges.

You could squeeze that unit in if you ditch the Scything Talons on the Genestealers and just a couple of Gaunts.

You have that power the Swarmlord has to make a unit to re-roll to hit- I wouldn't worry about genestealers/Warriors not being able to hit.

Yeah, keeping the lash whip on the tyrant. Saw no reason to change it. Thorax swarm is just a little too much to spend on him. I'll be honest: he is mostly a "Survive a lot of shooting" target. He's so beefed up that hopefully he can soak a LOT of fire before going down, and can do some serious damage when he does get there.

The Swarmlord is the real beast in CC, so I will be angling him towards the closest enemy.

As far as I know, the Swarmlord does hot have Old Adversary, and his special ability can only grant one unit preferred enemy, and it will be the Warriors.

With regards to the Warriors.... I don't have them modeled with Lash-whips. With I5 on the charge, they haven't really needed lash-whips yet. I keep the brood large because I NEED to kill the lone guy in the squad with a S8 power weapon who can make my day HORRIBLE. If that guy is a character, the dual bone-swords help immensely.

The Tyrant does have Old Adversary, but I do not want to rely on it, especially when the stealers will need a turn or two to get to him. With 30 attacks on the charge, re-rolling 1's means 4-ish extra hits. Not only that, but since they are hitting on 3's most of the time, the worse I roll, the more the talons pay for themselves.

[Fizyx]

In regards to the list.

The swarm lord and tyrant might be a bit too much for 1750. Consider dropping the tyrant in the interest of bulking out some of your other units and adding more. two paroxysm would be pretty cool though.

Maybe consider going with lashwhips + boneswords, and toxin sacs on the warriors. Your warriors are just fine the way they are, though lash whips are almost two good to go without, especially when coupled with a biomorph. Theres only a few units in the game that warriors with lashwhip/bonesword can't

Maybe drop the venemthrope or find points to bulk up the squad. One venomthrope is a nice target for all the str 8 that most armies can pack at 1750+ level. With points form the thrope you could bulk out your screen as well.

Also consider gargoyles as a screen, they may not be troops but they have a ton of advantages ranging from being a larger screen model to hide behind to being able to actually threaten units if given a biomorph for a single point each. Termigants can get it done, but gargoyles would be something to ponder and try out. I swear by gargoyles in bulk.

Totally hear you on the Swarmlod. This is just a shot in the dark to see how well it can do. More of a psychology thing than anything else. About the venomthrope: anything that can wound my T6 creatures on a 2+ is welcome to fire at my 4+ cover saved Venomthrope. Yeah, it'll suck if he dies to the first shot, but hopefully that won't happen.

And trust me, I am not dismissing your advice. I'm going to see how well they do tomorrow and we can have a nice dicussion about it. I just think there is so much available in this codex to make an awesome list, we just need to playtest it more in tournament settings with different lists to see what works and what doesn't.

Plus I really can't make much changes to my list from a modeling perspective, though I do have a bunch of Gargoyles that could be base-coated rather quickly.......

[Tynskel]

I understand that.

But to say that the Tyrant cost too much with swarm is not correct- the armored shell is expensive too. I have had success with both configurations.

As far as the Old Adversary and not using it: you should not purchase an ability you do not plan on capitalizing upon. If you are designing your tyrant to take hit and die- then you should spend those 'extra' points (like the devourers too) on other parts of the army.

I understand the Genestealers with the re-roll ones- but you are spending 85 points for re-rolls. Either cut out 25 from old adversary, or cut out 60 from scything talons, but having both is rather expensive.


You also do not state whether the Warriors have devourers or not--- their default is yes, so that is what I am assuming.

[Fizyx]

I understand that.

But to say that the Tyrant cost too much with swarm is not correct- the armored shell is expensive too. I have had success with both configurations.

As far as the Old Adversary and not using it: you should not purchase an ability you do not plan on capitalizing upon. If you are designing your tyrant to take hit and die- then you should spend those 'extra' points (like the devourers too) on other parts of the army.

I understand the Genestealers with the re-roll ones- but you are spending 85 points for re-rolls. Either cut out 25 from old adversary, or cut out 60 from scything talons, but having both is rather expensive.


You also do not state whether the Warriors have devourers or not--- their default is yes, so that is what I am assuming.

I totally see your point, and I'm kind of an idiot, I guess.

So... I take off Old adversary, I drop a few gaunts and take a secondary screen of Gargoyles? Maybe add another Venomthrope? The whole point of this list is the double scary for HQ, so I'd like to keep that unless it totally tanks in every game I play over the weekend.

Or I could go ahead and get some lash-whips. sigh....

[Son_of_Osiris]

And trust me, I am not dismissing your advice. I'm going to see how well they do tomorrow and we can have a nice dicussion about it. I just think there is so much available in this codex to make an awesome list, we just need to playtest it more in tournament settings with different lists to see what works and what doesn't.


No problem! I actually do like the list for the 1750pt level. I'm just throwing out some suggestions to consider after the tourney. The list has good close combat ability, and ranged anti-tank. you should do well at your tournament.

[Tynskel]

Try out your list.

I don't think you are n' idiot. I am just saying you can be more efficient.

Dual Tyrant HQ is kick @$$. And Expensive-- I am just suggesting that you decide what you want your Tyrant to do-- right now it is designed to be Jack of All Trades--- which totally works!

But, if your aim is to be resilient with one of the Tyrants, hack out some of the junk-- the Devourers and Old Adversary = 40 points--- a couple more points, and you can add 2 more wounds to the tyrant with the addition of another tyrant guard--- which will up the the resiliency of the Tyrant by a lot!

The another way to go is to cut back the armored shell to thorax swarm and be a beast at shooting and Close Combat (and you could be resilient by putting those points toward a Tyrant Guard-- but that's expensive too.)

[Fizyx]

and you can add 2 more wounds to the tyrant with the addition of another tyrant guard--- which will up the the resiliency of the Tyrant by a lot!


As soon as I can covertly sneak some funds out of our account, I will have more Tyrant Guard. I'm getting pretty good at the "Oh, Honey, I bought those a while ago, I just needed to paint them." The problem is getting the money out without notice.

[Spirit Leech]

If you were to drop your swarmlord you could take a tyranid prime with the works, and another zoanthrope. and if you were feeling particularly daring you could drop your venomthrope and take a podded DoM. At worst DoM is a top notch distraction, and at best he is a mobile soul sucking nuke.

[Fizyx]

So, lessons learned from today:

1. I need more reliable and more effective anti-tank/transport. I knew it was going to be bad, I just didn't know how bad.
2. The Venomthrope worked well, but see above. I am definitely upping the Zoe's to three and adding a second unit of two Hive Guard. I still won't be using the DoM for a few reasons (I hate arguing being reason number 1.)
3. Of course this means dropping one of the Tyrants; I am not sure which yet. The Swarmlord was absolutely awesome, so I will most likely be keeping him and shifting the other guard onto him.

So let's see.....


Swarmlord
-2x Guard

10x Genestealers
-Scything Talons
-Toxin Sacs

10x Genestealers
-Scything Talons
-Toxin Sacs

2x Hive Guard

2x Hive Guard

3x Zoanthrope
-Mycetic Spore

7x Warriors
-Boneswords
-Adrenal Glands
-Mycetic Spore

21x Termagants

Are the Warriors overkill?

[Lemt]

Yeahm 7 Warriors seems like too much. I assume you got them because since you're droping Zoans the warriors can keep them company, but Zoans seem to work best as fire-and-forget in footslogging armies IMHO. This is going to be VERY generic advice, but cut the maybe you can shave some points for a Tervigon? I THINK you could manage, and it would give you a tough troops choice. Or you could try to fit a Harpy, which would give you a good horde control unit and some fast assault. As a last option, people seem to be happy with the new Biovores. The main problem with your list as far as I see is the lack of horde control, and all the above would help somewhat in that sense.

[Fizyx]

The reason for the Warrior spore pod is because in all three games I played today it took them till turn 4 to get into any kind of action, and that was with outflanking. Without fleet and move-through-cover like Genestealers, they just can't get across for that turn three assault. With a pod that is much more likely to happen. Foot slogging across the table from turn 1 is ok, but the ubiquity of S8 pie plates in guard lists makes me shudder.

Tervigons are awesome, I'll see what I can work out.

[Tynskel]

I like the Venomthrope in the list- so here's to thinking about things you can do to mitigate damage caused by tanks.

1) Carnifex in a pod. ~Equal to your second Tyrant in points. Quite destructive if left unchecked. I like the Screamer Killer: Pod, Cluster Spines, Frag Spines, Bio-Plasma, and Adrenal Glands.
2) Marloc. Inexpensive, and can start on the board- automatically deep striking on turn 2. What's nice about 'em is that they are cheap, and if they manage to hit boy they can mess things up. However, to make them superbly effective, you need to be able to box in your opponent so the Mawloc can eat things whole.
3) Trygons. I don't really need to say too much, other than they can be expensive for what they do. I wouldn't get the prime because you already have the Zoans.
4) Tyrannofex with the Rupter Cannon.

All of these options would allow you to take some anti-tank and keep the Venomthrope. However, ya gotta drop a tyrant.

A 5th option, is to modify your Walking Tyrant. Give 'em a Hvy Venom Cannon. Isn't the best anti-tank weapon in the world, however, the gun is accurate and high Strength. It will mess around with your opponent.

A cheaper option is the Flying Mosterous Creature (I don't have my book in front of me, and I cannot remember the name for the life of me...). Give it a Hvy Venom Cannon-- it is Twin-Linked, and will pretty much hit whatever you want to shoot. This beasty is a little fragile- but will allow you to also take another Zoanthrope.


Another thought. Warriors with Rending Claws and Adrenal Sacs. That'll allow you to go all the wa up to Armor 14.