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addamsfamily36
06-10-2010, 11:35 PM
Ok so today i managed to get a glance at the new rulebook, and i mean a glance literally a few pages but i thought i would share the information that i do know.

1 - movement - units can move forwards, backwards and sideways. in basic they have simplified the backwards or sideways shuffle. units can move backwards but only by a certain percentage of their move (either a quarter or a half sorry again was a brief glance) you can do this now but literally u can jsut measure backwards or sidways non of the whole wheel or reform move the wheel back etc. so not much change but a nice simpification.

Can wheel as before normally.

can march as normal but enemies within 8 inches cause you to take a leadership test. this happens like fanatics as soon as you move within 8 inches you must test or so it seemed to imply ( i would take this with some salt as i wnted to read the whole section thoroughly to fully understand this one)

monsters and characters can pivot on the spot without penalty but characters have had their 360 line of sight reduced to 90 degrees.

Fleeing - fleeing through and enemy unit results in a dangerous terrain test on roles of a one u take a wound. only the models moving through take the hit, so if their is an overlap or your uni is alot wider only the models that run directly through the other uni get hit.


magic - power dice decided by 2d6, to a maximum of 12. additional dice can be generated by wizards if they roll a 6, or by magic items, but the maximum amount can never exceed 12. dispell dice is generated by the highest of the 2d6 roll for the power dice. so magic phase of player 1 he rolls 2d6 gets a 4 and a 5 so in toal gets 9 power dice. player two gets 5 dispell dice.


Miscasts - lets jsut say msot result in woudns or lots of death. (can;t remember specifics)


ok so not alot i'm afraid, but i thought you guys might like to have a gander.

Kieranator K82
06-10-2010, 11:52 PM
Seems interesting...
Hopefully we'll have the Black Box at my local Retailer tomorrow (Saturday, 12th June) so I'll see if I can get a look in. I suppose living in the country that gets to the new day first is a perk.
PS, that's New Zealand. The other pacific Islands don't count.

addamsfamily36
06-11-2010, 12:03 AM
Yeh being in the UK (home of GW) has its perks sometimes too lol

It was only a chance really, i popped in yesterday and the store full timer was hunched over it on the till with a crowd round him which he kept trying to disperse. thats why only got a few snippets. he wasn't even meant to get it out really was for him to take home read and get to know so that he is ready for the release.

TheBitzBarn
06-11-2010, 12:18 AM
Seems interesting...
Hopefully we'll have the Black Box at my local Retailer tomorrow (Saturday, 12th June) so I'll see if I can get a look in. I suppose living in the country that gets to the new day first is a perk.
PS, that's New Zealand. The other pacific Islands don't count.

They will have it on Monday They are tight Lipped about this

RocketRollRebel
06-11-2010, 07:59 AM
They will have it on Monday They are tight Lipped about this

Yeah seriously. When 40k 5th ed came out there was so much stuff available that we did some pseudo games using what was solid rumors (true los, new cover rules, run, no consolidating into new assaults, s4 def weapons ect) and stuff from the WD that came out right before hand.

I like these rumors so far and it has this exclusively 40k player of 4 years ready to dive into the new edition.

addamsfamily36
06-11-2010, 08:17 AM
lol its funny you should say that, because looking at the rumor round up so much of it is true its unreal. Tight lipped on this one definitely hasn't happened. there are for definite a few rumors that are utter rubbish, but the majority are at least in the same ball park if not a little bit off the truth.

Bigred
06-11-2010, 08:58 AM
Yup, agreed addamsfamily, that is why we're locking down the WFB rumors at this point until the real book is in people'
s hands. It won't be long now.

Also, were you looking at the big fancy hardcover?

phoenix01
06-11-2010, 09:40 AM
Too bad the 2010 price increase put an end to my plans for my first WHFB army. :(

TheBitzBarn
06-11-2010, 11:10 AM
Too bad the 2010 price increase put an end to my plans for my first WHFB army. :(

I do not see that as Almost Nothing in Fantasy went up almost all price increases were 40K

UltramarineFan
06-11-2010, 11:37 AM
Seems quite nice so far, that random element for power dice could really destabalize some armies.

CitizenZero
06-11-2010, 12:07 PM
The managers in my area had the softcover mini-book for a few weeks now. (which is full color now btw...)

The hardcover book came in yesterday, and it is indeed as monstrous at they say it is. One cool thing though is the side of the book's pages are marked, almost like tabs. That way, once you get familiar with it you can easily flip to any section you need...pretty handy on a book that big.

*Edit: Also, it came with a piece of paper that was an errata to the book itself...wonder if that will be fixed by the actual printing haha...

Bigred
06-11-2010, 01:34 PM
Interesting, keep it up guys.

Everybody use this thread only for first hand information gathered from the WFB 8th edition book itself and comments on them.

No rumors in here, only hard facts.

addamsfamily36
06-11-2010, 02:04 PM
Yeh big red it was the hardback version and as citizen zero says it is HUGE!!! could use it as a brick to build a house!

lol

yeh came with a multi language errata for one section regarding victory points

UltramarineFan
06-12-2010, 10:08 AM
The rulebook is really big, I knew it was bigger than the previous one but it was still surprising. Full colour. Couldn't get much, they're doing a proper game using the new rules next week so we'll know everything then. I found out that they've redone the organisation for WHFB, it's now just percentages, minimum of 25% for core but you can have that 25% in a single unit, so if it's enough points you need only have one core choice, I think it's 25% max for each of the others(and yes you can have lords in games below 2000pts). Heard of this spell which turns your wizard into a dragon(!!!) and if you are beaten in combat but you outnumber the enemy then you count as stubborn. Oh, and the miscast table is going to be really horrible now apparently and they even suggested that there's gonna be a drawback to rolling irresistable force.

MightyOrang
06-12-2010, 10:45 AM
Too bad the 2010 price increase put an end to my plans for my first WHFB army. :(

Ebay ... with patience, you can get anything you want for any army for at least 50% off.

twistinthunder
06-12-2010, 11:25 AM
The rulebook is really big, I knew it was bigger than the previous one but it was still surprising. Full colour. Couldn't get much, they're doing a proper game using the new rules next week so we'll know everything then. I found out that they've redone the organisation for WHFB, it's now just percentages, minimum of 25% for core but you can have that 25% in a single unit, so if it's enough points you need only have one core choice, I think it's 25% max for each of the others(and yes you can have lords in games below 2000pts). Heard of this spell which turns your wizard into a dragon(!!!) and if you are beaten in combat but you outnumber the enemy then you count as stubborn. Oh, and the miscast table is going to be really horrible now apparently and they even suggested that there's gonna be a drawback to rolling irresistable force.

most of this has been rumored for a fair bit, also bigred has already said he just wants HARD FACTS w/first hand sightings in this thread.

Anggul
06-12-2010, 11:35 AM
Seems fair enough mostly... but the power dice thing is stupid and really is a pointless addition.

Wathapend2urfase
06-12-2010, 12:42 PM
see i think the power dice generation is way better. Finally a way to tone down magic without making the spells totally suck. Hopefully there will be a chance for those of us who don't want to use too much magic but still have a chance to get rid of the opponents magic without having to spend all of our points on magic defense.

Horus Aximand
06-12-2010, 12:43 PM
The rulebook is really big, I knew it was bigger than the previous one but it was still surprising. Full colour. Couldn't get much, they're doing a proper game using the new rules next week so we'll know everything then. I found out that they've redone the organisation for WHFB, it's now just percentages, minimum of 25% for core but you can have that 25% in a single unit, so if it's enough points you need only have one core choice, I think it's 25% max for each of the others(and yes you can have lords in games below 2000pts). H


True, but also false at the same time. The rules listed for army selection in each Army Book also apply, so you CANNOT have a lord in games of under 2000pts whilst using any of the current army books. You still have to follow the force organistation charts there, whilst also applying the percentage system of the new rulebook.

Herald of Nurgle
06-12-2010, 12:47 PM
To be honest, with the wild changes in the system which people are going to have to adapt to in the first months of 8th Ed, it's gonna be pretty suicidal to choose a Lord under 2k pts anyway.

Can't wait until Dwarfs or whatever get their next book - perhaps we MAY see some changes to the amount of Lords you can select etc. We also don't know if there are any erratas coming swiftly after the new rulebook like there was in 40k - how awesome would it be to find custom charts like in High Elves becoming widespread.

oldone
06-12-2010, 12:47 PM
i really excetied about this new edtion because started it a few years ago but 40k just had more fun and it was less complex so i hoping with this rule set to get in to fanscty. do you think it will change the game that much or is it just minor changes?? hopeful to get a look at the new book next week

3dken
06-12-2010, 01:23 PM
Well I can confirm that army organization is based on percentages, must have minimum 3 core units, and you can only have 2 (duplicates) of any one rare unit. Also, there is a disclaimer note that says the 8th edition rules for organization overrule any and all army books. Core must contain at minimum 25% of army, heros/lords up to 25%, etc. I think for larger armies it increases slightly. This is based on a 2500pts army list. Oh, they also have rules for "special" buildings like haunted mansions etc. Can't wait to see the large hard back book (the ones the stores got are the small paperback ones you get in the starter game box set: rules only).

Update: I misunderstood the 3 core unit thing. It's "Must have minimum 3 non-character units". Sorry! Also they have rules for a dwarf airship! Still no rules for sea battles though.

Herald of Nurgle
06-12-2010, 02:08 PM
Well I can confirm that army organization is based on percentages, must have minimum 3 core units, and you can only have 2 (duplicates) of any one rare unit. Also, there is a disclaimer note that says the 8th edition rules for organization overrule any and all army books. Core must contain at minimum 25% of army, heros/lords up to 25%, etc. I think for larger armies it increases slightly. This is based on a 2500pts army list. Oh, they also have rules for "special" buildings like haunted mansions etc. Can't wait to see the large hard back book (the ones the stores got are the small paperback ones you get in the starter game box set: rules only).
Very nice information, except the Rare thing.
If it's based upon a 2500pt list... man that could be a killer.

Any specifics? Moar & plx.

Bigred
06-12-2010, 03:22 PM
Thank you for that 3dken!

Keep it coming guys, only real confirmed first-hand info, and comments on it please.

Risstalle
06-12-2010, 05:34 PM
Umm yeah if any of you guys have seen the rule book odds are the staff member responsible will soon be fired.

At least one guy has already gone for simply showing the book. There is no black box for it. Though demo games will start when the countdown time on the site hits zero.

There is so much more awesome stuff in the book... had my first game of it today and will be playing more tomorrow.

You're gonna be blown away... the rumors (I'm not gonna say if their accurate or not) don't even vaguely do justuice to how ****ing amazing 8th ed will be.

Magic is ****ing disgusting I had a level 2 goblin shaman kill 15 dwarf warriors with 1 spell and then an additional 12 with his second.

Chuck777
06-12-2010, 05:42 PM
You're gonna be blown away... the rumors (I'm not gonna say if their accurate or not) don't even vaguely do justuice to how ****ing amazing 8th ed will be.

Magic is ****ing disgusting I had a level 2 goblin shaman kill 15 dwarf warriors with 1 spell and then an additional 12 with his second.

o_O;;;;;;;

Tell us how!

As for the other confirmed facts, I love the changes to the force org. Fantasy needed a change, just like 40k did. The rare issue is a bit extreme but it will force people to take more blocks of men, which is a good thing regardless.

Kieranator K82
06-12-2010, 05:53 PM
Waaah! It turns out that we're not getting our black box until next weekend, and it is debatable whether it even contains a rulebook. I guess that means this'll be the place for confirmations.

phoenix01
06-12-2010, 08:26 PM
I do not see that as Almost Nothing in Fantasy went up almost all price increases were 40K

But if I want to continue feeding my 40K addiction, something has to give. Besides, last time they did a price increase, they raised the prices on half, then waited a few months before finishing with the rest.

CitizenZero
06-12-2010, 09:59 PM
Umm yeah if any of you guys have seen the rule book odds are the staff member responsible will soon be fired.

At least one guy has already gone for simply showing the book. There is no black box for it. Though demo games will start when the countdown time on the site hits zero.

There is so much more awesome stuff in the book... had my first game of it today and will be playing more tomorrow.

You're gonna be blown away... the rumors (I'm not gonna say if their accurate or not) don't even vaguely do justuice to how ****ing amazing 8th ed will be.

Magic is ****ing disgusting I had a level 2 goblin shaman kill 15 dwarf warriors with 1 spell and then an additional 12 with his second.Yeah, I have seen the book...several times...through several different people, all of whom would indeed be fired if their identities were revealed. Thats why I'm trying to hide from the Illuminati haha...

I will go ahead and say that aside from the stuff I have already confirmed in this and other threads, MOST of the rumors that are swirling around at this point are in fact pretty accurate. However, some aren't...and it will be funny to see how this "hands on only" thread ends up come Tuesday...

It was a noble effort though BigRed ;)

3dken
06-13-2010, 02:23 AM
They also have some rules for monsters/creatures.....can you say "sea monsters", yeah they have rules for using sea creatures - like they can swim through rivers and streams as if on open ground. BUT, alas, no rules on sea battles. Well at least not in the mini rule book, we'll have to wait and see if they do anything in the full hardback book. I think there was some big improvements in the spell lists (types of magic), but what do I care, I play Skaven! hahaha!

UltramarineFan
06-13-2010, 02:35 AM
most of this has been rumored for a fair bit, also bigred has already said he just wants HARD FACTS w/first hand sightings in this thread.

The manager told me the stuff I've posted on here, let me see a few pages of the book and showed me an 8th ed list he'd written for his empire-are you satisfied now?

Shavnir
06-13-2010, 07:11 AM
So to confirm the sighitngs here, heroes and lords share a 25% of your max point "pool" of sorts?

If so rip my Lizardmen :(

Hasagwan
06-13-2010, 07:31 AM
So to confirm the sighitngs here, heroes and lords share a 25% of your max point "pool" of sorts?

If so rip my Lizardmen :(

No, 25% heroes, 25% lords, they've been seperated

Herald of Nurgle
06-13-2010, 08:36 AM
That sounds stupid. I assume it's 25% Heroes under 2k and 25% Lords AND HEroes over it.
50% of your army as characters would just change how you abuse the rules.

Bigred
06-13-2010, 06:47 PM
via Charles Thoss (on the bols frontpage) (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/06/wfb-news-8th-edition-first-sightings.html)


Hi,


I've had the pleasure to play a game using the new rules yesterday (in Germany, the copies have been on display in GWs since last week.

Changes I can confirm:

- you are free to measure everything before making decisions.
- if you want to march within 8" of an enemy, you can do so after passing an Ld Check.
- charging is Movement+2d6, 3d6 pick two highest for flyers, cavalry etc.

Close Combat Changes:
- rank bonus is checked at the end of combat. Charging gives +1 Combat Res, there is no Outnumbering bonus.
- Attacks are done in Initiative order, regardless of charges.
- If you have ASF and ASL, they cancel each other out, so White Lions strike at Initiative 5.
- If you have ASF and more Initiative as the enemy, you can re-roll missed attacks, provided your opponent doesn't also have ASF.
- Great Weapons are always Ini 1.
- Fear tests are now taken at the beginning of each round of h-t-h, if failed you are WS1 for the round. Terror works the same (but can be used against Fear Causing troops).
- Troops strike with full attacks out of rank 1, 1 Attack from rank 2 (stacking with spears etc.) All attacks keep weapon boni. Units 10 wide can strike out of 3 ranks. However, this doesn't work if you are attacked from the side or rear.
- Casualties are taken from the back, so as long as you have two full ranks, you lose no attacks if the opponent strikes before you.

--> all of these changes mean that close combat will be much more brutal than before.

- Large Targets may trample, dealing 1d6 hits at their profile strength at Ini 1 to one unit they are engaged with.
- Dragons or other creatures with a Breath Weapon may deal 2d6 hits at their Ini and with the Strength of the Breath Weapon.
--> Both of these are in addition to regular attacks, so a Dragon can now wipe out a medium-sized unit in one turn.

Kieranator K82
06-13-2010, 08:03 PM
I see...
I think I need to chew over that a bit before I can say anything intelligent.

atom_84
06-14-2010, 12:04 AM
I have seen and read the book in the flesh, only titbits but it's very good all In all. First off I know the hard back is the biggest rule book realised and that includes the forge world ones, it is going to be 45 in the uk for the hardback.
A few things I remember are, magic pools described by posters here are correct so I will not repeat, any irrisitable force ie double 6's will result in first an irrisiable cast and then a mis cast, rolling double 1 means nothing, basically you have failed to cast.

There are 10 pages of new pool magic items from weapons, armour, arcane, talismans, enchanted items and banners that all armies can use.

In army composition, standard army lists unto 2,999pts can have upto 25% lords/heroes over 25% core. You cannot have duplictated units of rares and specials.

In 'grand' armies 3,000pts or more the duplication rule is ignored as far as I can remember.

And lastly, alliances are back. For any scenario you can opt to ally with another army, this comes with restrictions of course, but skaven and dark elves are auto untrustworthy.

Strivos
06-14-2010, 01:13 AM
Based on the new percentage based Force Orgs all I have to say is that would be awesome for my Orcs and especially my Gobos (I can get a hero for 30pts!). My Vampire Counts will be hurting though as its pretty leet type right now

For the whole thing on if this is in addition to or overriding the ones in the army books it seems we have both interpretations here. If I had an option I'd choose that only the percentages applying.

One other thing is that I have no idea why Germany seems to be getting the books earlier but if I can remember correctly they had the first books last time as well.

FYI there is a second hand post in the Rumors thread that supposedly lists all of the common magic items (many with cool German names, sounding very Empirish).

Tuesday is taking forever to get here :(

Bigred
06-14-2010, 09:18 AM
Hardcover Book Table of Contents

12 - Turn Sequence
13 - Movement
28 - Magic
38 - Shooting
46 - Close Combat
62 - Panic
66-79 - Special rules

80 - Troop types
88 - Weapons
92 - Command Groups
96 - Characters
108 - Warmachines
116 - Battlefield Terrain
132 - Choosing an Army
136 - Allies
140 - Missions (6)

153-475 - Background and Hobby
-each race receives over a dozen pages of background, and painted army and individual model spreads
-campaign examples

476 - 510 Reference
-Lores of Magic
-Magic items
-Summary
-Index

Lord Azaghul
06-14-2010, 09:34 AM
Hardcover Book Table of Contents

12 - Turn Sequence
13 - Movement
28 - Magic
38 - Shooting
46 - Close Combat
62 - Panic
66-79 - Special rules

80 - Troop types
88 - Weapons
92 - Command Groups
96 - Characters
108 - Warmachines
116 - Battlefield Terrain
132 - Choosing an Army
136 - Allies
140 - Missions (6)

153-475 - Background and Hobby
-each race receives over a dozen pages of background, and painted army and individual model spreads
-campaign examples

476 - 510 Reference
-Lores of Magic
-Magic items
-Summary
-Index


So does the main book have the pdfs or updated for all army book?

Bigred
06-14-2010, 11:26 AM
So does the main book have the pdfs or updated for all army book?

No, there are no updated individual army rules in the book. Those must be coming seperately. There will probably be a set of FAQs coming for all the armies like they did right before 40k 5th arrived on shelves.

UltramarineFan
06-14-2010, 11:49 AM
That sounds stupid. I assume it's 25% Heroes under 2k and 25% Lords AND HEroes over it.
50% of your army as characters would just change how you abuse the rules.

Nope, Haswgan is correct, it's got nothing to do with point values now, just percentages so no 'under 2k' stuff, it's 25% lords, 25% heroes but if you think about it it's not so bad I mean that could give up to 1000pts for characters in a 2k game but if they did that they'd have a lot of points in single models, which may not necessarily be a good idea. It has to be said that percentages does not solve death stars, not really.

Aldramelech
06-14-2010, 12:02 PM
It seems to me that Dwarfs are going to suffer big time. Im not impressed so far.......

Lord Azaghul
06-14-2010, 12:14 PM
It seems to me that Dwarfs are going to suffer big time. Im not impressed so far.......

yeah...I'm not thrilled...but its still hard to tell, but it seems like static combat rez and high leadership are pretty worthless if you opponent gets +1 rez for charging, hits before you with 10+ attacks (prolly more), and parry is gone, that means I'm less survivable in CC when I need it even more. And I haven't seen anything we gain in the shooting phase either.

I'm still on the fence, and now that I know army updates aren't in the big rule book I don't see a point in buying it early.

Aldramelech
06-14-2010, 12:29 PM
yeah...I'm not thrilled...but its still hard to tell, but it seems like static combat rez and high leadership are pretty worthless if you opponent gets +1 rez for charging, hits before you with 10+ attacks (prolly more), and parry is gone, that means I'm less survivable in CC when I need it even more. And I haven't seen anything we gain in the shooting phase either.

I'm still on the fence, and now that I know army updates aren't in the big rule book I don't see a point in buying it early.

Plus our characters are quite expensive, we don't have anything so far to offset this new "super magic" phase and we cant take multiples of the good stuff we do have.....

We weren't top tier anyway and this will slip us right down the list.

addamsfamily36
06-14-2010, 02:22 PM
I don't think we will truly be able to see what that effects on each individual army will be until getting to see the full rules, and errata for each individual list.

Bigred
06-14-2010, 02:26 PM
Agreed addamsfamily36,

The dwarfs always got special rules and dispensation to deal with enemy magic, and I bet they will this time too.

So the next "big date" will be whenever the army book FAQs drop. GW would be silly to wait until after the book is formally released, so I would assume they are coming before the ship date.

addamsfamily36
06-14-2010, 02:29 PM
Also, super magic?! magic is nice, but omg have miscasts become deadly, and not only to the magic caster but to any unit he's in. also with the increased risk of miscast on irresistible force roles, im sensing a lot more suicide by magic casting lol. also the limitation of 12 power dice is nice.

and you'd never guess im a high elf player lol, yet even i like these new limitations on magic.

Lord Azaghul
06-14-2010, 02:29 PM
Agreed addamsfamily36,

The dwarfs always got special rules and dispensation to deal with enemy magic, and I bet they will this time too.

So the next "big date" will be whenever the army book FAQs drop. GW would be silly to wait until after the book is formally released, so I would assume they are coming before the ship date.

That's why I'm 'proceeding with caution' at this point. Late rumours said Dwarves do still keep the 2 extra DD. I should be able to get a good look at the book tomorrow, but I still want to play the game before I make up my mind.

addamsfamily36
06-14-2010, 02:34 PM
Lord Azaghul the rules for combat are harsh, but i think dwarves will be ok. their save and the fact that casulaties are removed from the back, so you should be getting attacks back. :)

Lord Azaghul
06-14-2010, 03:34 PM
Lord Azaghul the rules for combat are harsh, but i think dwarves will be ok. their save and the fact that casulaties are removed from the back, so you should be getting attacks back. :)

That's were I'm not too sure. I'm only S3 base. And I've essentially lost 1 pip of armour value (parry)!
Espiecally given how right now dwarves win by NOT dying, and dying sounds a whole lot easier in eight.

Like I said before though, my impressions on 8th ed seem to vary daily, so I'm holding out...and just like any good dwarf: I don't like change!:D

Hasagwan
06-14-2010, 05:07 PM
That's were I'm not too sure. I'm only S3 base. And I've essentially lost 1 pip of armour value (parry)!
Espiecally given how right now dwarves win by NOT dying, and dying sounds a whole lot easier in eight.

Like I said before though, my impressions on 8th ed seem to vary daily, so I'm holding out...and just like any good dwarf: I don't like change!:D

These are good points I hadn't thought of. But looking at it and how slow dwarfs attack anyways, I think we might be seeing an increase in two handed weapons.

Ork-Rock
06-14-2010, 05:54 PM
Remember that Dwarf charging 2D6+3 means a lot more flanking and manoeuvering !

Kieranator K82
06-14-2010, 06:28 PM
Yeah but elf cavalry charging 8/9 + 2D6 means more being flanked and outmanouevered.

Skalver
06-14-2010, 06:54 PM
Yeah but elf cavalry charging 8/9 + 2D6 means more being flanked and outmanouevered.

Right now chargers move double their move so elf cavalry charge 16" (or 18") and dwarves charge 6".

2d6 averages 7
3d6 with two highest taken averages 8

So afterwards elf cavalry will charge (on average) 16" (or 17" with move 9) while dwarves charge average 10".

M3 infantry charge 4" more on average.
M8 cavalry charge the same on average.
M9 cavalry charge 1" less on average.

So in summation the elf cavalry actually loses a bit of charge range while the dwarves all gain quite a lot on their charge ranges.

Kieranator K82
06-14-2010, 07:38 PM
The potential data outliers, while having a lower probability, could win or lose the game.

M3 + 2D6 = 5" min, 15" max charge for Dwarfs.
M4 + 2D6 = 6" min, 16" max charge for average infantry
M8 + 2D6 = 10" min, 20" max charge for average cavalry

Everything has the potential to charge like mad men at the enemy of just waddle forwards uncertainly. And yes, it is possible, but very unlikely.

Odominus
06-15-2010, 12:30 AM
The addition of the random dice roll is not about you charging farther. It is about giving you the possible failed charge. Thats it. In order to declare a charge, you have to see if you are within your movement x2. So if you are M7, then your charge target has to be within 14" or you cannot declare the charge. So again, the dice roll is in case you roll LOW and fail the charge. Now if the enemy flees, then a high roll on the random dice could be useful to get the overrun.






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Aldramelech
06-15-2010, 01:34 AM
Being able to charge is nice, but as Dwarfs are the biggest users of DHW it aint gonna do much good as we will always strike last. Also I like to use small units of Dwarf missile weapons as I see having 20 thunderers in a unit a bit of a waste of points. These used to be quite survivable but now will last about as long as a chocolate fire guard.

Strivos
06-15-2010, 06:01 AM
I have a concern about the FAQs. It seems that the majority of the newer codex have what would normally be an extra spell or something similar. But us Orcs and Goblins have only the 6 per list. Are we getting new spells or are we going to have to say contend with 1 fewer spell per list. Also what about our own pretty horrible miscast list?

Seems to me on a practical matter before the new O.G. dex comes out either GW is going to have to actually give new stuff (not likely) or gimp us some on the spells and make us better on the casting of those spells and maybe let us use the new miscast table (still easier than the O.G. one though).

BTW Big Red not sure if you are refraining by being an upright individual or what but now is the time to dish as I know you can. You don't NEED to go to work today right? You can just transcribe the book for us here :p

addamsfamily36
06-15-2010, 08:12 AM
Being able to charge is nice, but as Dwarfs are the biggest users of DHW it aint gonna do much good as we will always strike last. Also I like to use small units of Dwarf missile weapons as I see having 20 thunderers in a unit a bit of a waste of points. These used to be quite survivable but now will last about as long as a chocolate fire guard.

Again i think you'll have to wait and see for errata's. I'm hearing a lot of dwarf negatives, but the new rules will effect all armies. Vampires, Won't be able to go as vampire heavy as before. High elves, well everyone has gained their spearmen citezen levy rule (fight in two ranks), Magic has been capped to a limit, if dwarves still get their plus 2 dispell bonus then your laughing nd thats jsut naming a few points. It's no surprise that your army format might have to change with the new rules. (its how gamesworkshop make a bit of extra off a new release lol)

Nikephoros
06-15-2010, 03:51 PM
Read a bunch of the book today. To dispell earlier rumors, if you have ASF and a great weapon (ASL) you strike at initiative order. People had rumored that ASL trumps ASF, but they essentially cancel each other out and you strike at init.

And Flying is only 10" with a 20" march. Charge for flyers is 10+2d6.

Killing Blow ignores armor and regen, but not ward.

____________________

If you wipe out the front two rank, people step up and still get their hits back at their init.

If you have more ranks than your opponent, you are stubborn for combat resolution.

These two really impressed on me in a big way how much better large infantry blocks will be vs. small elite infantry units.

TheBitzBarn
06-15-2010, 06:11 PM
I have the book infront of me and It is AWESOME. Most rumors had some bases of Fact in them. Ask away and I will answer all that I can. Charge is a Nike said.

TheBitzBarn
06-15-2010, 06:14 PM
Again i think you'll have to wait and see for errata's. I'm hearing a lot of dwarf negatives, but the new rules will effect all armies. Vampires, Won't be able to go as vampire heavy as before. High elves, well everyone has gained their spearmen citezen levy rule (fight in two ranks), Magic has been capped to a limit, if dwarves still get their plus 2 dispell bonus then your laughing nd thats jsut naming a few points. It's no surprise that your army format might have to change with the new rules. (its how gamesworkshop make a bit of extra off a new release lol)


But High Elf get to add one to that so HE spearmen fight in 4 ranks not 3. Dwarves are FAR from hurt in this Deamons get a lil beat down and deservedly so

Nikephoros
06-15-2010, 06:24 PM
VC seem to have taken the biggest hit in my book, at least how the armies are currently constituted. If a wizards fails to cast a spell he cannot cast any more for the rest of the turn. Really hurts the ability to raise dudes on one die casts.

TheBitzBarn
06-15-2010, 07:33 PM
It balances them out as they have 4 casters

This was a change I did not expect but glad to see

CitizenZero
06-16-2010, 12:40 AM
True, but also false at the same time. The rules listed for army selection in each Army Book also apply, so you CANNOT have a lord in games of under 2000pts whilst using any of the current army books. You still have to follow the force organistation charts there, whilst also applying the percentage system of the new rulebook.This is false, the army composition areas of the army books are trumped by the main rulebook.

addamsfamily36
06-16-2010, 12:47 AM
This is false, the army composition areas of the army books are trumped by the main rulebook.


only if the wording is structured in a way that overides current army books, or specifically says it does. your still using points, and you can't have a lord until you reach 2000 pts then you can have 25% worth.

TheBitzBarn
06-16-2010, 07:20 AM
This is false, the army composition areas of the army books are trumped by the main rulebook.

That is not true. Page 11 Last Paragraph states that Warhammer Armies Books always Take precedence. You cannot have a Lord in Under 2k Points

TheBitzBarn
06-16-2010, 07:21 AM
With Two Ranks Fire a 10 Man Units is Now more Useful than Ever before

Aldramelech
06-16-2010, 08:09 AM
With Two Ranks Fire a 10 Man Units is Now more Useful than Ever before

I don't see it that way. Under 7th a unit of ten Thunderers stood some chance in hand to hand, now as they will always strike last regardless of the situation and with the other changes they will probably get wiped out in one round.

CitizenZero
06-16-2010, 10:50 AM
That is not true. Page 11 Last Paragraph states that Warhammer Armies Books always Take precedence. You cannot have a Lord in Under 2k PointsPage 132, Sidebar on the Left I believe...the book isn't in front of me, so I am going on memory.

*Edit- Its on page 134, the sidebar on left.

Old_Paladin
06-16-2010, 11:00 AM
An important thing to remember as well, is that every army book is getting a errata for when the rulebook is released for general sale.

The first thing each might say is, "ignore pages x-y for army building resrictions, only use the percentages given in the main rules."

No sense in fighting over this now until everything is offically released.

CitizenZero
06-16-2010, 11:04 AM
An important thing to remember as well, is that every army book is getting a errata for when the rulebook is released for general sale.

The first thing each might say is, "ignore pages x-y for army building resrictions, only use the percentages given in the main rules."

No sense in fighting over this now until everything is offically released.It says very specifically in the new rulebook to ignore the army composition charts in all of the Warhammer Army Books. It's shockingly explicit :O

I do agree with the spirit of your post however, I wouldn't bother about this if the answer wasn't already available.

Aldramelech
06-16-2010, 03:48 PM
Ok, had a look tonight. My first observation is that the book is far too large. People are going to have very serious problems with the binding within a month of buying it. This book wil fall to bits in no time at all.

I then turned straight to the Dispell section to see what Dwarfs get. Dwarfs now get +2 to all dispel rolls rather then extra dice. It does not mention Runesmiths so I dont know if they still add extra dice.

I also had a look at the spell cards. These were very nice. There appears to be ways to augment spells and each lore of magic sems to have its own common trait that happens every time you cast a spell from that lore, a kind of bonus side effect if you like.

Norseman
06-16-2010, 11:19 PM
I was surprised at the number of things the rumors had wrong. They had a few things right but overall i thought there was going to be alot more changes.

Movement is basically the same.
All guess ranges are gone.
Artillery machines can only be shot at no crew. If panicked will hide under gun. If forced to break gun is destroyed.
HtH is in Int order. Not Chargers first.
Rank bonus is still only up to+3
Charging gives a +1 to res
Reforming is a lot more useful and easier to do. Many chances to do it for free, with big payoffs in HtH
Flank charges should be easier. They limited the percentage of facing to the front rank making it easier to get those bigger units onto the sides.
You can get two +1s for two flank charges and then another +2 for rear.
Hoard rule is nice for fighting in an extra rank for units 10 wide.
Stubborn for having more ranks of five than opponent is very nice.

I guess GW wants to sell more models.

Magic miscasts are insanely terrible. I foresee magic being diminished in the game.

Anyways first impressions are good for me. I think alot has changed but enough has stayed the same. I really think they may have struck a nice balance.

CitizenZero
06-16-2010, 11:50 PM
If anyone has any questions on the new rules, I am in a position to answer them...let me know...

wbravenboer
06-17-2010, 01:11 AM
What will the new magic rules mean for vampires? And is there some mention about army book specific magic (VC, DE, HE, OK),
will the main book overrule the army codex for instance?
but so far it sounds like we will be having a completely new game! Sounds very cool!

ikew
06-17-2010, 04:44 AM
To anyone who can answer:

How do the allies rules work? Are they intended to link the armies of two or more players or do they permit armies composed from multiple army books? What are the limitations?

Would love to include some men and dwarfs in my Wood Elf army... Any info appreciated.

Aldramelech
06-17-2010, 04:59 AM
I do know that if Dwarfs are allies with any army that includes a magic user they loose the +2 to dispell attempts.

Grabnutz
06-17-2010, 05:15 AM
Stubborn for having more ranks of five than opponent is very nice.

Oh bl**dy wonderful! :(

Let's really stick it to the Ogres... again. We are almost always outnumbered in this way and now we don't stand a cat's chance in a Skaven nest of breaking anybody.

Well that's it. All my Ogres are joining the Imperial Guard.

wbravenboer
06-17-2010, 05:29 AM
Ogres don't need 5 models to rank up! At least that was the impression I got... Do monstrous infantry have ranks of 3 now? The unit size does not matter anymore?

Herald of Nurgle
06-17-2010, 09:15 AM
Ogres don't need 5 models to rank up! At least that was the impression I got... Do monstrous infantry have ranks of 3 now? The unit size does not matter anymore?
Yes Monstrous Infantry have ranks of 3 and need 6 to count as a Horde.

BRILLIANT summary of the rumours over at The Quiet Limit of the World: http://quietlimit.blogspot.com/2010/06/eighth-edition-compiled-notes-and.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheQuietLimitOfTheWorld+%28Th e+Quiet+Limit+of+the+World%29

Norseman
06-17-2010, 09:16 AM
Confirmed: Monstrous Infantry which ogres are classed as replace the "5 model across" rule for "3 model across". likewise they receive the Horde special rule with 6 models across. They also have the "Stomp" Special rule. Which is a ASL Automatic hit at models str in addition to their normal attacks. They also receive upto 3 attacks per model from the second rank instead of the usual 1.

That means 3 attacks from the 3nd rank if you have 6 across. Ouch!

Faultie
06-17-2010, 09:43 AM
Between the Bow Volley rules, and the 2-ranks-attack, I think my Kossars just got a lot better!

CitizenZero
06-17-2010, 10:05 AM
What will the new magic rules mean for vampires? And is there some mention about army book specific magic (VC, DE, HE, OK),
will the main book overrule the army codex for instance?
but so far it sounds like we will be having a completely new game! Sounds very cool!The Army Books override the Rulebook, except for the very sepcific example of Army Composition.


To anyone who can answer:

How do the allies rules work? Are they intended to link the armies of two or more players or do they permit armies composed from multiple army books? What are the limitations?

Would love to include some men and dwarfs in my Wood Elf army... Any info appreciated.The allies rules do not technically allow for you to use more than one army book for making your list. What they do is give you special rules based on what type of "alliance" you have in a team game. The three types are Trusted, Suspicious, and Desperate. For example, if you are in a Trusted Alliance of Empire and Dwarves, you can both can use either General for his leadership via inspiring presence. If you are in a Desperate Alliance of Empire and Dark Elves, you wouldn't be able to.

The Alliances are based around Order and Destruction, with TK and OK being neutral.

Gooball
06-18-2010, 05:41 PM
I may not have read the rulebook the whole way through, but it does not have any rules specific to races. it has things like hatred and that of course. nothing specific though.
Overall i like the new rules, everything hurts more. EVERYTHING.

CitizenZero
06-18-2010, 06:22 PM
I may not have read the rulebook the whole way through, but it does not have any rules specific to races. it has things like hatred and that of course. nothing specific though.
Overall i like the new rules, everything hurts more. EVERYTHING.I pretty much read the whole small book cover to cover and besides the Alliance rules, the only thing I saw was the Dwarf dispel rules (No extra dice, but +2 to dispel attempts) and the fact that when casting a Lore of Beasts spell on any unit in the Beastmen book you get a bonus.

Beta_Ray_Bill
06-18-2010, 10:50 PM
Is there anything that discounts units that in the army book say "Does not count towards minimum (slot) choice"? Other wise if those still don't count with the percentage system, I think my wife got duped into buying those chaos furies...

CitizenZero
06-19-2010, 02:01 AM
Is there anything that discounts units that in the army book say "Does not count towards minimum (slot) choice"? Other wise if those still don't count with the percentage system, I think my wife got duped into buying those chaos furies...You got me...I seem to recall something on this written, but have since returned the book I was borrowing.

I believe they still do not count towards the 25% minimum you are required to have, but don't quote me on that :/

Kieranator K82
06-19-2010, 02:35 AM
I got to take a look today and was very reluctant to let it go!

Some of the magic items in particular entertained me:
- Wizarding Hat (100pts) Wearer is a Level 2 Wizard and Stupid
- Foldable Fortress (100pts?) Place a fortress or similar in your deployment zone
- Terror Mask of Eee! (?pts) You are Terrifying!

It's more the naming of those items, and the concept of the fortress that I find amusing.

Beta_Ray_Bill
06-19-2010, 03:03 AM
You got me...I seem to recall something on this written, but have since returned the book I was borrowing.

I believe they still do not count towards the 25% minimum you are required to have, but don't quote me on that :/

That's ridiculous! I can see since you apparently need 3 units + 1 hero/lord that it wouldn't count towards that, but units like that should count towards the 25% after the two others first or something...

I AM however looking forward to 50 some odd rats charging in... 50 storm vermin led by queek would be hell to deal with!

eldargal
06-19-2010, 03:10 AM
What do people think will happen with the infantry/core units vs character dynamic given that there isn't a 25% universal character cap? Are the new rules making more infantry a better choice or will it be business as usual? When I had a look through the book I came away with the impression that core units would be much more viable, but I'm not sure if it was just wishful thinking clouding my judgement.

Old_Paladin
06-19-2010, 08:08 AM
What do people think will happen with the infantry/core units vs character dynamic given that there isn't a 25% universal character cap? Are the new rules making more infantry a better choice or will it be business as usual? When I had a look through the book I came away with the impression that core units would be much more viable, but I'm not sure if it was just wishful thinking clouding my judgement.

I'm pretty sure things won't be 'business as usual'
Even if core units don't dominate the battle field; they will still perform much better then they used to.

You'll no longer have to fear having chaos knights charge a unit mulch-up the front rank or two and never be able to fight back. They might to a lot of damage, but a least you're guys will then all get to fight back.

You'll still have to worry about being flanked by a dragon; but that dragon doesn't cancel ranks, so you still have a chance.

Having more ranks granting stubborn means that all those elite groups (Chaos knight, dragons, etc.) cannot just mulch a unit cause a -5 leadership and break you in a single combat; you're much more likely to hold and force them to grind you down over several turns.

And some armies infantry (orges namely) will actually be pretty hardcore now.

Fizyx
06-19-2010, 09:28 PM
Having more ranks granting stubborn means that all those elite groups (Chaos knight, dragons, etc.) cannot just mulch a unit cause a -5 leadership and break you in a single combat; you're much more likely to hold and force them to grind you down over several turns.

Yeah, it's kind of crazy now. I don't know how I am going to fit Chaos Knights into my list now.

I'm currently assembling three more boxes of Chaos Warriors. Can you say 60-man block of infantry :D

gcsmith
06-20-2010, 12:26 AM
The rules are amazing, Really are. Played yesturday In store and just wow, Im deffo gonna be running a 50 man strong unit of HE spears with all getting attacks, now thats what I call high elves.
Also My fave thing in rule book is all the magic items. The magic weapons alone are able to make up for the craptastic stuff which is the HE magic weapons.

Aldramelech
06-20-2010, 12:33 AM
So can we assume that from what we've heard this is going to be the "Death Star" edition?

Lots of people talking about huge units.

Beta_Ray_Bill
06-20-2010, 01:27 AM
So can we assume that from what we've heard this is going to be the "Death Star" edition?

Lots of people talking about huge units.

Well yeah, that plays right into GW's hands, more money for them! It does however make for fun/interesting game play as it's something new(to my knowledge).

eldargal
06-20-2010, 02:40 AM
Which is what the game should be, really. The thing I hated most about 7th edition is that it was quite possible to have 'armies' which had less models than a small 40k Eldar force.:rolleyes: I want epic fantasy battles not a bunch of guys having a brawl on the village green.



So can we assume that from what we've heard this is going to be the "Death Star" edition?

Lots of people talking about huge units.

Aldramelech
06-20-2010, 03:30 AM
Which is what the game should be, really. The thing I hated most about 7th edition is that it was quite possible to have 'armies' which had less models than a small 40k Eldar force.:rolleyes: I want epic fantasy battles not a bunch of guys having a brawl on the village green.

Thats fine if the armies are going to be several large units with small supports, no problem with that.
What worries me is the possibility of armies with "Deathstar" units. Someone turns up with an army of two or three super units, not so much fun.

Gooball
06-20-2010, 08:07 AM
8th edition and the rise of the 160 strong goblin spearmen unit is here.
Seriously, i had one take 30 warriors of chaos with an exalted hero down.
Nasty

Fizyx
06-20-2010, 08:24 AM
8th edition and the rise of the 160 strong goblin spearmen unit is here.
Seriously, i had one take 30 warriors of chaos with an exalted hero down.
Nasty

Seriously, I can totally see this happening. The Goblins will always get more attacks in than the Chaos because of the base size, and the 3+ in CC rather than 2+ is going to hurt us significantly. We effectively will lose twice as many people each round of combat due to that one change. Thanks.

Aldramelech
06-20-2010, 08:56 AM
Is there no size limit on Goblin units?

Edit: Duh, course there aint, old edition, 4th?

I am worried by this slightly. It would seem that the rules have made a real effort on the one hand to make movement more fluid and the game more interesting. But this wont work at all if people field armies with huge super death stars.

addamsfamily36
06-20-2010, 10:10 AM
Death star units might be scary but they have one very big flaw.

Although magic is scary now, the risks of miscasting are very horrific, casting one spell on a unit that size could be horribly devastating to a unit of that size.

take that 160 goblin unit.

i take high elf mage with flames of the phoenix.

i only realy have to pull the spell off once, and i hit every single model in the unit at strength 3, with a toughness of 3, so im rolling 160 dice needed 4's.

and then the next turn it might be dispelled if not the next hit is strength 4, so wounding on 3's.

last time i checked goblins saves were not that good. :)

Fizyx
06-20-2010, 10:15 AM
Yikes!

Hadn't thought of that.

It is almost like this is a whole new game.

addamsfamily36
06-20-2010, 10:22 AM
It is almost like this is a whole new game.

:)

Hasagwan
06-20-2010, 04:55 PM
That 160 unit can also get charged by multiple units. Lots and lots of units in fact which could butcher the entire unit in short order. Add in more accurate war machines with the magic and I think the options for taking out these units will be much better than people expect.

I imagine that death stars will be popular at first until people start finding ways of defeating them.

Brass Scorpion
06-20-2010, 11:49 PM
GW's already scored big with some of their limited edition merchandise this time. The Skull Dice, Collector's Edition and the Gamer's Edition set were all sold out in about 3 days. The only limited edition item still available is the Engineer's Ranging Set.

And after checking out the new rules it is quite like a whole new game. I haven't been this interested in WFB in a few years. I already batch painted a new unit of Chaos Warriors and I'm working on another now. I'll be getting a copy of the rule book at the midnight release at my local GW store. The hobby and story-driven material in the book are just the kind of thing that got me into this hobby in the first place.