Warhammer - lets talk

[addamsfamily36]

Right so with the release of a brand new sparkly edition of WARHAMMER! i'm very excited. And so far there has been some relatively good hype towards the new edition. :)

Still, there is a lack compared to 40k, which is to be expected, its a more popular game as a whole. But i would like to open up this thread, for ALL warhammer players, painters, gamers, rules, or anything, even if your a 40k player who just likes the look of warhammer.

lets get conversations going about:

-gaming
-the new edition
-rules
-painting
-armies
-your favourite character
- fluff/history
-tactics

Anythign and everything you can think of lets talk about it.

So Calling all WARHAMMER enthusiasts WELCOME!
:D

[UltramarineFan]

Hmmm, I have to say that one of the aspects I really like is the formation and how everyone is in nice neat blocks, allows me to push one unit right smack into the other, very satisfying, also allows for flanking and rear charges which are also great fun, which is something you don't get in 40k.
Also, much like 40k I'm a fluff adict and fantasy really provides with rich and interesting background for nearly all the races and from looking at the new rulebook I get the feeling I'm gonna love reading all the fluff in there. :D

[addamsfamily36]

Hmmm, I have to say that one of the aspects I really like is the formation and how everyone is in nice neat blocks, allows me to push one unit right smack into the other, very satisfying, also allows for flanking and rear charges which are also great fun, which is something you don't get in 40k.
Also, much like 40k I'm a fluff adict and fantasy really provides with rich and interesting background for nearly all the races and from looking at the new rulebook I get the feeling I'm gonna love reading all the fluff in there.

One of the great things fluffwise i feel in warhammer, is that because its set in the past if you will, its easier to develop characters and stories. Killing off characters etc. writing new developments. Eltharion becoming a blind swordmaster for instance, even though he appears to have gone back to riding a griffon lol.

[Emperorsmercy]

I for one am looking forward to a brand new and long overdue rebirth of warhammer- as long as the balance problems got sorted out, I might unearth the boxes of Chaos warriors I have stashed away, but couldn't bear to Ebay them.

I love the warhammer fluff- at first glance it seems a rip off of all other fantasy worlds, until you look closer with chaos beinng the most amazing example. But others, like the Old Ones, Lizard-men, Cathay (A chinese fantasy army which is much unused elsewhere.) and Tomb Kings, a noble-ish undead army!

On another note, this thread doesn't seem to be as popular as the moaning threads opened up by Aldralamech... people sure love to complain.... :rolleyes:

[CitizenZero]

I think tactically, Fantasy is a less forgiving game than 40k...therefore you have to plan ahead a bit more. I like that.

I think the thing that puts Fantasy over the top for me is the aesthetics...I like the way a Fantasy army looks, from the individual sculpts, to the way a painted army looks when it is fielded. I also love the art direction, the character designs for all the races are just so cool, no wonder Warcraft stole them haha...

I was playing a game of 8th Edition recently and had a 40 man block of 10 Wide Saurus Warriors get charge by 2 30-man blocks of Six wide Orc Boys in the front...it just looked awesome, that to me is what Fantasy is about...

P.S. I like this thread.

[Aldramelech]

I for one am looking forward to a brand new and long overdue rebirth of warhammer- as long as the balance problems got sorted out, I might unearth the boxes of Chaos warriors I have stashed away, but couldn't bear to Ebay them.

I love the warhammer fluff- at first glance it seems a rip off of all other fantasy worlds, until you look closer with chaos beinng the most amazing example. But others, like the Old Ones, Lizard-men, Cathay (A chinese fantasy army which is much unused elsewhere.) and Tomb Kings, a noble-ish undead army!

On another note, this thread doesn't seem to be as popular as the moaning threads opened up by Aldralamech... people sure love to complain.... :rolleyes:

That would be thread, singular. The Poll is just a Poll. I would also like to point out several positive threads started by me in the last week.

[addamsfamily36]

for one am looking forward to a brand new and long overdue rebirth of warhammer- as long as the balance problems got sorted out, I might unearth the boxes of Chaos warriors I have stashed away, but couldn't bear to Ebay them.


Personally I loved 7th edition. i felt that the problem was with certain army books. However having said that, i love everything warhammer so am very keen for the new edition.

:)

[addamsfamily36]

Also the thread isn't very old. hopefully given time it will pick up some pace. My last thread "a brief look at warhammer" quickly grew, and has 17, 000 plus views. i checked today, i was most shocked lol

[RocketRollRebel]

I love the looks of the minis and I am getting into it as a hobby project and as a change of rules and tactics from 40k. My self and a lot of people in our gaming club are getting very excited and feeling great about the new rules too. Even some other harder 40k only players are dipping their toes into the Fantasy end of the pool.;)

[addamsfamily36]

I love the looks of the minis and I am getting into it as a hobby project and as a change of rules and tactics from 40k. My self and a lot of people in our gaming club are getting very excited and feeling great about the new rules too. Even some other harder 40k only players are dipping their toes into the Fantasy end of the pool.

Those dippers will soon be into the game fully

I'ts like pringles "once to you pop you cannot stop"

I'm unsure if they have pringles outside the Uk but if they don't or if anyone doesn;t know what they are, they are a very very addictive crisp. some would say Moorish, but i reckon theres some addictive drugs in them somewhere :D

[eldargal]

I've seen more interest in 8th edition since the stores got their preview copies in that ever before in my own gaming circle. Even some of the younger members who previously scoffed at 40k are interested, and some of the older scoffers as well.

For me, I'm not sure whether to go with Dark Elves or High Elves. DE have more girls, but I'm not one for the whole violent destruction of Elven civilization thing.

[addamsfamily36]

I've seen more interest in 8th edition since the stores got their preview copies in that ever before in my own gaming circle. Even some of the younger members who previously scoffed at 40k are interested, and some of the older scoffers as well.

For me, I'm not sure whether to go with Dark Elves or High Elves. DE have more girls, but I'm not one for the whole violent destruction of Elven civilization thing.

Eldargal welcome.

I play a shadow warrior themed high elf army. so i would perhaps if i may suggest you maybe try a like mix? you'll have to pick one army book, but have a Nagarythe force but of loyal to the phoenix king. this way you can incorporate more of the dark elf range into your high elf force perhaps?

Just and idea.

[addamsfamily36]

Please excuse the poor grammar and wording of that last post lol. this heat is getting to me lol

[Old_Paladin]

I've seen more interest in 8th edition since the stores got their preview copies in that ever before in my own gaming circle. Even some of the younger members who previously scoffed at 40k are interested, and some of the older scoffers as well.

For me, I'm not sure whether to go with Dark Elves or High Elves. DE have more girls, but I'm not one for the whole violent destruction of Elven civilization thing.

Go with High Elves. ASF and citizen levy are a great combo.

If you want more female models, look around for the old Handmaidens of the EverQueen (or convert some yourself); and just use them as Pheonix Guard.

[eldargal]

Thats a nifty idea. I wonder what I could use Witch Elves as.


Eldargal welcome.

I play a shadow warrior themed high elf army. so i would perhaps if i may suggest you maybe try a like mix? you'll have to pick one army book, but have a Nagarythe force but of loyal to the phoenix king. this way you can incorporate more of the dark elf range into your high elf force perhaps?

Just and idea.



I have 1000pts of High Elves at the moment, I had more but I gave them to one of my brothers when I stopped playing. I kept the maiden guard though, I'm hoping there will be a new version of them in 8th, though I doubt it.


Go with High Elves. ASF and citizen levy are a great combo.

If you want more female models, look around for the old Handmaidens of the EverQueen (or convert some yourself); and just use them as Pheonix Guard.

[addamsfamily36]

I wonder what I could use Witch Elves as.

either shadow warriors, or one of the special unit's, sword masters maybe because of the duel weapons i.e two attacks.



kept the maiden guard though, I'm hoping there will be a new version of them in 8th, though I doubt it.


One of my favourite unit's in the game so disappointed when they got removed :(

[robertsjf]

Eltharion becoming a blind swordmaster for instance, even though he appears to have gone back to riding a griffon lol.

They tie him to the saddle.

[CitizenZero]

Those dippers will soon be into the game fully

I'ts like pringles "once to you pop you cannot stop"

I'm unsure if they have pringles outside the Uk but if they don't or if anyone doesn;t know what they are, they are a very very addictive crisp. some would say Moorish, but i reckon theres some addictive drugs in them somewhere :DOh we have Pringles stateside...but we sure as hell don't call them sissy things like "crisps" haha :P

[addamsfamily36]

Oh we have Pringles stateside...but we sure as hell don't call them sissy things like "crisps" haha :P

what do you call them? there not potato chips, because they are not fried slices of potato.

crisp covers both

besides what's sissy about a crisp?

[Aldramelech]

what do you call them? there not potato chips, because they are not fried slices of potato.

crisp covers both

besides what's sissy about a crisp?

Septics:rolleyes:

[BlacknightIII]

Warhammer talk huh? Ok, wheres my Beastman gallery for one! Another thing is Minotaurs are going to be rediculous with the whole attacking in two ranks and getting stomp attacks.

[CitizenZero]

what do you call them? there not potato chips, because they are not fried slices of potato.

crisp covers both

besides what's sissy about a crisp?OMG. We call them Potato Chips...but I just learned of the entire controversy here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pringles

You're right!

What is this thread about again?

[addamsfamily36]

Lol you learn something new everyday :)

But your right, back to warhammer!!

so does anyone know any good black coach conversion ideas?

[Lord Azaghul]

Ok, so we back on topic here?

Warhammer. I was allowed to take the book home over night, and I’ve had the time to get a few games (8th) in since.

Simply put: its fun. It’s a bit ‘lighter’ of a game, and I think it’ll take a while before people figure out some of the neatier or nastier things, and I think power gamers are going to have a tougher time plaguing the gaming comminity on this one.

I’m sticking with my Dwarves and Greenskins. I have plenty of dwarves so buying more isn’t needed. My greenskins on the other hand where build with specific function of, crush and crunch, and since ranks and blocks are king in this new ed my O&G might be sitting along the side for a bit, until I can horde them up abit. My fantatics are prolly going to drop (espeically is their ‘terrain feature’ rule remains)

My only really disapointment was that DE got better. (more attacks, faster) and that my Hammerers have been solidly kicked to the curb thanks to the new weapons rules, no more hand weapons/shield option. Which is a real shame because they were my favorate unit…and now I need ironbreakers!

Regen did get toned down a bit, but only if you have multiple ranged attacks in a phase. IE, I wound the hydra with one flaming shot, it loses regen for the rest of the phase, so all my WM don’t need to be flaming to take the sucker out.

Terrain is pretty awesome right now. Woods can be seen through, and also to random stuff.
In 7th ed hills were dominate due to needing LOS for shooters and WM, now with everything shooting in two ranks hills will take a back seat. The random stuff terrain does is much more fun, instead of slowing down everyone’s movement.

Losing guess range is awesome. And being able to measure whenever you want, also fantastic, really speeds up the game.

[Aldramelech]

Ok, so we back on topic here?

Warhammer. I was allowed to take the book home over night, and I’ve had the time to get a few games (8th) in since.

Simply put: its fun. It’s a bit ‘lighter’ of a game, and I think it’ll take a while before people figure out some of the neatier or nastier things, and I think power gamers are going to have a tougher time plaguing the gaming comminity on this one.

I’m sticking with my Dwarves and Greenskins. I have plenty of dwarves so buying more isn’t needed. My greenskins on the other hand where build with specific function of, crush and crunch, and since ranks and blocks are king in this new ed my O&G might be sitting along the side for a bit, until I can horde them up abit. My fantatics are prolly going to drop (espeically is their ‘terrain feature’ rule remains)

My only really disapointment was that DE got better. (more attacks, faster) and that my Hammerers have been solidly kicked to the curb thanks to the new weapons rules, no more hand weapons/shield option. Which is a real shame because they were my favorate unit…and now I need ironbreakers!

Regen did get toned down a bit, but only if you have multiple ranged attacks in a phase. IE, I wound the hydra with one flaming shot, it loses regen for the rest of the phase, so all my WM don’t need to be flaming to take the sucker out.

Terrain is pretty awesome right now. Woods can be seen through, and also to random stuff.
In 7th ed hills were dominate due to needing LOS for shooters and WM, now with everything shooting in two ranks hills will take a back seat. The random stuff terrain does is much more fun, instead of slowing down everyone’s movement.

Losing guess range is awesome. And being able to measure whenever you want, also fantastic, really speeds up the game.


How are Hammerers nerfed? In the army book they have Hand weapons, Great weapons and shields. Is there a rule saying they cant now? And if thats the case maybe when the FAQ/Update comes through they might be exempted from it.

[Lord Azaghul]

How are Hammerers nerfed? In the army book they have Hand weapons, Great weapons and shields. Is there a rule saying they cant now? And if thats the case maybe when the FAQ/Update comes through they might be exempted from it.

The new rule for all special weapons (ie anything not a hand weapon)
States that IF you have a HW and SW, you much ALWAYS use the SW. So even though miners, hammerers, spearmen, have a HW and Spear/gw or whatever, they may not use the HW unless the other weapon is destroyed. So miners, hammerers, and anything else, must use the great weapon and can no longer gain or use parry.

[BlacknightIII]

That would explain why Bestigors weren't given hand weapons or shields.

[addamsfamily36]

That would explain why Bestigors weren't given hand weapons or shields.

Lol Nothing can explain Bestigors.

plastic kit with no extras?
overpriced compared to other plastics (5 chaos knights for £15 quid, for 5 pound more i could get 10 chaos knights at £30 or 10 bestigor at £25.)
die easily in the game
expensive

the lsit could go on lol

[BlacknightIII]

If the new rules say you get attacks back no matter what they may not be as bad now that they can attack in two ranks. So far I've learned they make very good counter charge units or used in conjunction with Centigors.

As to why there almost 50 bucks... who knows.

[addamsfamily36]

Oh yeh, ive been tempted by a unit for ages for the odd flank charge here or there, but i feel cheated that a main like infantry unit, core part of your army if you choose to take it could suffer so badly.

Yeh, i suppose the new rules will help them in combat, but they are so easy to kill from shooting etc that im still unsure about them.


Centigors however, yum yum strength 6 great weapons :) 2 attacks each, with a rank thats right 20 great weapon attacks muhahah
and thats without a champ or ghorros, mind you great weapons means striking last. so i expect casulties.

[BlacknightIII]

An easy way to keep the Bestigors safe from shooting is to put Ungor raiders in front to screen them.

[addamsfamily36]

An easy way to keep the Bestigors safe from shooting is to put Ungor raiders in front to screen them.

Oh don;t worry lol, once the new rules have been in my hands long enough to look over, once ive got some cash, and once ive read that new beastmen book even more times than i have already then im sure i'll find a use for them. but yes ungor raider screens all the way.

[BlacknightIII]

The new rulebook finally makes regular ungors seem useful, stick em in a huge block ten wide and enjoy the luxary of being stubborn and attacking in a bunch of ranks!

[addamsfamily36]

That is my plan for regular Gors :)

big big blocks of gors and lots of em

[Aldramelech]

The new rule for all special weapons (ie anything not a hand weapon)
States that IF you have a HW and SW, you much ALWAYS use the SW. So even though miners, hammerers, spearmen, have a HW and Spear/gw or whatever, they may not use the HW unless the other weapon is destroyed. So miners, hammerers, and anything else, must use the great weapon and can no longer gain or use parry.

Can someone with the book put this rule up on here. Id be very interested in reading it in its entirety. This makes little sense to me. If this is in fact the case, Hammerers and other similar units are now pointed incorrectly and should now be cheaper.

[Aldramelech]

OK, got on to a member of my group who has his copy already. The rule is:

Page 89
> 'If a model carries a special close combat weapon, he must fight with it in the Close Combat phase-he cannot elect to wield his hand weapon instead.'

So my next question is, What is the definition of a special CCW?

I await his answer......

Edit: So thats anything that is not a hand weapon apparently.

So where does that leave the Slayers axe rule?

[Lord Azaghul]

slayer axe is an army book special rule, so it overrides the main brb. Slayers don't see any change.

I'm trying to decide the best way to run my warriors now. Blocks of 30 (5wx6d)?
Getting the 'steadfast' bonus is going to be very importaint to for dwarves, who still aren't killy in CC. It also means more warriors over elite troops, since the stocism banner does nothing at the moment.

[addamsfamily36]

I'm trying to decide the best way to run my warriors now. Blocks of 30 (5wx6d)?
Getting the 'steadfast' bonus is going to be very importaint to for dwarves, who still aren't killy in CC. It also means more warriors over elite troops, since the stocism banner does nothing at the moment.

If i may suggest, I would seriously consider waiting for any army wide errata's etc before you change your army composition.

[Lord Azaghul]

If i may suggest, I would seriously consider waiting for any army wide errata's etc before you change your army composition.

Oh I understand. I'm not buying anything at the moment, but I do have a TON of dwarves, and the FAQ is only a couple of weeks away, but I don't think that they 'how' dwarves win will change. In the games I've played vs horde units, I really want the extra ranks (stead fast) bonus. Death frenzied skaven are crazy!

[addamsfamily36]

Hmm

Personally i like dwarves, but as a high elf player i find it hard to pick them up lol. having said that, as much as dark elves and vampires seem to be the top dogs in 7th, i found dwarves brilliant.

An ex worker at my local store used to have the best dwarf army. gunline yet could not be moved in combat. with the edition im sure he'll have to change too, but i think dwarves are jsut one of those armies thats hard to shift. especially if the composition is worked to perfection.

[Aldramelech]

Im not fond of shooty Dwarfs.

To my mind Dwarfs should be close combat monsters. That is even less so now.....

[Lord Azaghul]

Im not fond of shooty Dwarfs.

To my mind Dwarfs should be close combat monsters. That is even less so now.....

Dwarves haven't been CC monsters since.... well not in 6th or 7th.
Dwarves win by not dying, and by gradually wearing down their foe.

The new rules seem very block and CC centric, large blocks of dwarves should be where its at.

Since the 2nd rank can attack now, I'm thinking about 4 blocks of 25+ with hw/sh/FC and 1 block with 25 GW/FC. I think core troops are going to be more valuable then our elites (at least until next ed). Supported by lots of artillary at 2250 (2 OG 2 Cannons 2 GT, 1 BT). Dwarves WM actually did get better, if I understand the rules correctly, we have more wounds thanks to engineers, and since guess range and partials are gone we are more accurate.

[Aldramelech]

Dwarves haven't been CC monsters since.... well not in 6th or 7th.
Dwarves win by not dying, and by gradually wearing down their foe.

The new rules seem very block and CC centric, large blocks of dwarves should be where its at.

Since the 2nd rank can attack now, I'm thinking about 4 blocks of 25+ with hw/sh/FC and 1 block with 25 GW/FC. I think core troops are going to be more valuable then our elites (at least until next ed). Supported by lots of artillary at 2250 (2 OG 2 Cannons 2 GT, 1 BT). Dwarves WM actually did get better, if I understand the rules correctly, we have more wounds thanks to engineers, and since guess range and partials are gone we are more accurate.

I have been quite lucky in my choice of units for my Throng I suppose. I do have twenty Hammerers, thats not so good (Thats your fault by the way LA! You advised against Iron Breakers and told me to buy Hammerers! lol) But I do have lots of blocks of core troops, and only two small units of missile troops. What I really need to know now before I decide anything else is whether my Runesmiths still add dispel dice.

[Lord Azaghul]

I have been quite lucky in my choice of units for my Throng I suppose. I do have twenty Hammerers, thats not so good (Thats your fault by the way LA! You advised against Iron Breakers and told me to buy Hammerers! lol) But I do have lots of blocks of core troops, and only two small units of missile troops. What I really need to know now before I decide anything else is whether my Runesmiths still add dispel dice.

Well if it makes you feel better I don't have any ironbreakers either! I do hope hammerers get grommel armour next book.

But thanks to the loss of parry, dwarf elites aren't the best buy for the points, and stubborn isn't what it used to be now that higher ranks grant it to every body, nor are the 'double unit' or anti fear banners worth it, so I think playing bigger blocks of dwarves is going to be where its at! Just compare the cost of 25 Ironbreaks with FC & 1 25pt banner, to 30 warriors with sh/fc (350I - 295W), and the warriors are probably going to be hanging around longer.

Edit: i would be suprised if the RS still adds a DD, he might be a +2 to dispel though. In 8th ed dwarves inately gain a +2 to dispell without any characters (replaces the +2 dice)

[Old_Paladin]

Ironbreakers still have a bit of a leg-up over warriors; the slightly better save and extra point of strength do add up (I bet Empire players would be pretty happy if they could give their Halberdiers full plate).

As for the Hammerers; add fullbody rune shields and the faceguards (from the warrior sprew) and call them Ironbreakers. Even clip off a few hammer-heads and add some axeheads, scythes and maces (just so they don't look so uniform).
Or maybe it's time for them to dye their beards and take the oath (literally, repaint them as slayers; who just haven't had time to give back their armour).

[Lord Azaghul]

Well I'd be willing to bet hammerers will get grommil armour whenever dwarves get a new book so I"m going to hang on to them as it! I might be buying another box o'warriors and building ironbreakers...but we'll see.

Elite dwarves are still solid, but the points separation is pretty big from warriors to ironbreakers, 9 points for a warriors with a shield and 13 points for a ironbreaker (+1 AS/WS/S). And since Ironbreakers aren't stubborn, I think (at least from what I've seen) more dwarves will be better then fewer elite dwarves.

I do want to try a couple of things in the new ed though, like 30 dwarves with great weapons in a 5x6 formation.

[Old_Paladin]

Elite dwarves are still solid, but the points separation is pretty big from warriors to ironbreakers, 9 points for a warriors with a shield and 13 points for a ironbreaker (+1 AS/WS/S). And since Ironbreakers aren't stubborn, I think (at least from what I've seen) more dwarves will be better then fewer elite dwarves.

I do want to try a couple of things in the new ed though, like 30 dwarves with great weapons in a 5x6 formation.

4 points seems about average for those kinds of upgrades; Orcs pay that for big 'uns and Skaven pay that to upgrade their stormvermin (and neither get a better armour save then nomal).
And the difference adds up: if you look at hitting and wounding on at 4+ vs. hitting and wounding on at 3+. You're looking at causing almost twice as many wounds for only about a 50% increase in points.

Warriors are probably the best place to have greatweapons though (maybe miners). Even having longbeards with greatweapons would be better then hammerers, at least longbeards are core and add 'old grumblers' to help with all the units of warriors around them.

[Lord Azaghul]

4 points seems about average for those kinds of upgrades; Orcs pay that for big 'uns and Skaven pay that to upgrade their stormvermin (and neither get a better armour save then nomal).
And the difference adds up: if you look at hitting and wounding on at 4+ vs. hitting and wounding on at 3+. You're looking at causing almost twice as many wounds for only about a 50% increase in points.

Warriors are probably the best place to have greatweapons though (maybe miners). Even having longbeards with greatweapons would be better then hammerers, at least longbeards are core and add 'old grumblers' to help with all the units of warriors around them.

I'm not sure on the longbeards, I used to run longbeards and hammerers in 7th, to great effect, but it seems the most of the magical banners don't really do much, not with opponents throughing down 2x the attacks, but S6 core is pretty solid! However I still don't think dwarves are going to be able to 'put out' as much damage as many of the other armies...playing some more games is obviously needed. :D
I'm also thinking about rangers, but then they are a very expensive unit.

[Toranoga]

Ok, I admit I haven't played WHFB for quit a few years, but is there a reason people don't like the 6+ ward save for hand weapon and shield?

Oh, and I like the changes made to the game. I think they will get me to start playing again.

[Aldramelech]

I have a unit of 20 rangers ready for painting (I saved all the "cloaked" bodies from the boxsets). I am now wondering whether to abandon that idea, have Longbeard Rangers, have Xbow rangers or Warrior Rangers. If I abandon the idea do I do Longbeards with G/W? Or do I put faceplates on them and call them Ironbreakers? Decisions decisions......

I already have 1 unit of 20 longbeards with hand weapon and shield.

[Lord Azaghul]

Ok, I admit I haven't played WHFB for quit a few years, but is there a reason people don't like the 6+ ward save for hand weapon and shield?

Oh, and I like the changes made to the game. I think they will get me to start playing again.

Because in 7th ed it was a +1 to your armour save and it worked against ALL cc attacks, not just from infantry and cav.
The New rule takes my average dwarf from a 3+ in CC to a 4+ with a 6+. I'd rather have the 3+.

[Aldramelech]

Because in 7th ed it was a +1 to your armour save and it worked against ALL cc attacks, not just from infantry and cav.
The New rule takes my average dwarf from a 3+ in CC to a 4+ with a 6+. I'd rather have the 3+.

Agreed. It sucks...

[Old_Paladin]

Ok, I admit I haven't played WHFB for quit a few years, but is there a reason people don't like the 6+ ward save for hand weapon and shield?

In a few units it is actually a redundant and pointless rule.
For example, savage orc boys already have that save from their warpaint. There is almost no reason to give them a shield at all. They could at least use the old rule (and it was like they got heavy armour in melee).

[addamsfamily36]

See, ive always had a problem with a standard dwarf having a 3+ armour save. yes for the elite units but for a bog standard infantry? Some cavalry haven't got that good a save!

I get that they are master forgers etc

and i understand they need it for survivability, but when a dwarf hand gunner or crossbowman is gettign a better save in combat than say an elite swordmaster or a unit of saurus cavalry (i recall theirs is 3+ isnt it?) then theres something wrong lol.

[eldargal]

I don't think this has been posted here yet, its a little video of Phil Kelly talking about the new edition of WFB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZkTgaAcBek

He seems incredibly enthused and it really comes accross that they have put an awful lot of effort into this new edition. Which sorely needed it, lets be honest. Also, first time I've seen Phil Kelly, rather cute.

[Herald of Nurgle]

I don't think this has been posted here yet, its a little video of Phil Kelly talking about the new edition of WFB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZkTgaAcBek

He seems incredibly enthused and it really comes accross that they have put an awful lot of effort into this new edition. Which sorely needed it, lets be honest. Also, first time I've seen Phil Kelly, rather cute.
Having seen him in RL I have to admit he is a smexy beast.

I want to smother him with my tentacles.

[wittdooley]

Can't help but think he'd be more dashing if he trimmed the sideburns a bit. He's got a bit of Hugh Grant in him, save for the teenage kid sideburns.

[CitizenZero]

Phil Kelly is a cool dude, I had a beer with him poolside in L.A. a couple years ago at Games Day. His journey from White Dwarf to Design Team is pretty interesting...

[eldargal]

Good to know. I don't have any tentacles myself, but I'm sure I could find something to smother him with.

A haircut, possibly. Tweed three piece would be nice too, I dislike t-shirts.


Having seen him in RL I have to admit he is a smexy beast.

I want to smother him with my tentacles.

[Aldramelech]

Good to know. I don't have any tentacles myself, but I'm sure I could find something to smother him with.

A haircut, possibly. Tweed three piece would be nice too, I dislike t-shirts.

Not Learning yet? :)

[eldargal]

Gah. I meant something like chocolate fudge sauce, Mr Dirty Mind.


Not Learning yet? :)

[addamsfamily36]

Gah. I meant something like chocolate fudge sauce, Mr Dirty Mind.

Smothering a guy in choclate sauce is kinda naught/dirty anyways. i mean it's not like you;d cover someone in chocolate then just walk away.:p

anyways, what happened to my thread lol.....seriously......warhammer to talking about choclate fudge covered men?!!

[Aldramelech]

Smothering a guy in choclate sauce is kinda naught/dirty anyways. i mean it's not like you;d cover someone in chocolate then just walk away.:p

anyways, what happened to my thread lol.....seriously......warhammer to talking about choclate fudge covered men?!!

Id have to agree :D

[eldargal]

Hm, fair point.

Getting back to Warhammer, does anyone remember the name of that female Dwarf* model that was released as part of some special scenario pack thing ages ago, maybe ten years?


Smothering a guy in choclate sauce is kinda naught/dirty anyways. i mean it's not like you;d cover someone in chocolate then just walk away.:p

anyways, what happened to my thread lol.....seriously......warhammer to talking about choclate fudge covered men?!!


*Nothing to do with chocolate fudge sauce now, see.

[Aldramelech]

Hm, fair point.

Getting back to Warhammer, does anyone remember the name of that female Dwarf* model that was released as part of some special scenario pack thing ages ago, maybe ten years?




*Nothing to do with chocolate fudge sauce now, see.

Queen Helga wasnt it?

[eldargal]

Right! God, its from 1996, I feel old. Hm its still available from GW, yay:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1250470_99060205013_ColWHHelgaMain_445x319.jpg
I'd hit that.


Queen Helga wasnt it?

[Aldramelech]

Right! God, its from 1996, I feel old. Hm its still available from GW, yay:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1250470_99060205013_ColWHHelgaMain_445x319.jpg
I'd hit that.

Still not learning lol :eek:

[eldargal]

Pfft.

So now I'm wanting to choose between High Elves, Dark Elves and Dwarfs. :rolleyes: Dwarfs have the advantage of a female general model, I'd have to green stuff the HE general and convert the DE one.

[AirHorse]

Cant wait for my copy of the book to arrive so i can start whipping my goblins into the right kind of shape! Finally I will be able to field proper orc and goblin hordes :P

[BlacknightIII]

So I just bought a new Beastmen chariot today and while the box and instructions were copyright 2009 the model itself had GW 1993 all over it. Has anyone bought a model recently that has an on older date on it?

[Aldramelech]

So I just bought a new Beastmen chariot today and while the box and instructions were copyright 2009 the model itself had GW 1993 all over it. Has anyone bought a model recently that has an on older date on it?

Oh god yes! Most of my Dwarf characters that I brought early this year had old dates on them. I dont think thats when they were made though. I think that when they make a new mold the oringinal date is on the master, so your chariot could have been made last week, but still have 1993 on it?

[Brother Mord]

Warhammer talk huh? Ok, wheres my Beastman gallery for one! Another thing is Minotaurs are going to be rediculous with the whole attacking in two ranks and getting stomp attacks.

I just played my first game of 8th edition (my Empire vs Chaos) with the store owner and I testing out the new rules as we played.

As an empire player I love the fact that even if you wipe out my first rank I can still attack back with troops stepping up to take their place. Makes basic troops much more useful. This was a game changer.

the new charge rules were fun and interesting, changed the flow of the game a lot.

His unit of chaos ogres were unbelievable. All armed with great weapons, all getting their full attacks even those in the second rank and then getting stomp attacks after all of that. They will crush anything on the board.

For units like that (Ogres, minotaurs, rat ogres) I don't see how anyone can stop a unit like that other than concentrate all missile or magic attacks at it until its very small or try to bait it away with a cheap unit.

The Ogre Kingdoms army just got a WHOLE lot better.

[Xas]

His unit of chaos ogres were unbelievable. All armed with great weapons, all getting their full attacks even those in the second rank and then getting stomp attacks after all of that. They will crush anything on the board.

For units like that (Ogres, minotaurs, rat ogres) I don't see how anyone can stop a unit like that other than concentrate all missile or magic attacks at it until its very small or try to bait it away with a cheap unit.

The Ogre Kingdoms army just got a WHOLE lot better.

with great weapons they have allways strike last and afaik ogres have bad I. so just point something their way that has great weapons themselfes and at least the same I.


if you want something hard to stop think about 50 graveguard /w great weapons 5 deep 10 wide.
with a supporting caster-vampire lord /w helm of command and the right banenr you are looking at 30 attacks that hit anything ws6- on 2+ (rest on 3+), have strenght 6, magical weapons and killing blow.

ASL doesnt concearn the unit much as you have to kill the 4rd and 5th rank for a total of 20 modells (t4 5+ sv) before it starts to loose attacks. for resilence add the now even more powerfull vampire magic to restore the unit (1d6+1 for a cast on 4 or 3d6 for a cast on 12 spell :) )

[Lord Azaghul]

with great weapons they have allways strike last and afaik ogres have bad I. so just point something their way that has great weapons themselfes and at least the same I.


if you want something hard to stop think about 50 graveguard /w great weapons 5 deep 10 wide.
with a supporting caster-vampire lord /w helm of command and the right banenr you are looking at 30 attacks that hit anything ws6- on 2+ (rest on 3+), have strenght 6, magical weapons and killing blow.

ASL doesnt concearn the unit much as you have to kill the 4rd and 5th rank for a total of 20 modells (t4 5+ sv) before it starts to loose attacks. for resilence add the now even more powerfull vampire magic to restore the unit (1d6+1 for a cast on 4 or 3d6 for a cast on 12 spell :) )

I fully expect ALL in book lores to recieve an update, as some of the casting values are far too low now!
Keep in mind though, a natural roll of a 1 or 2 still fails to cast AND the caster is done casting for the turn if he fails to meet a casting value!

My solution for killing things like that: warmachines! My cannons are now d6, so bigger models watch out!
My stone throwers no longer have partcials and I can make them flaming!

I things most armies in general 'feel' like that got a boost. There are all sorts of cool things that almost any army can do! I mean even goblins horded up with spears are awesome!


EDIT: @ Aldramelech BTW, i did some play testing and math hammer. Hammerers are still freaking awesome. Take a block of 20+ and watch them mow down everything in there path!

[Aldramelech]

I fully expect ALL in book lores to recieve an update, as some of the casting values are far too low now!
Keep in mind though, a natural roll of a 1 or 2 still fails to cast AND the caster is done casting for the turn if he fails to meet a casting value!

My solution for killing things like that: warmachines! My cannons are now d6, so bigger models watch out!
My stone throwers no longer have partcials and I can make them flaming!

I things most armies in general 'feel' like that got a boost. There are all sorts of cool things that almost any army can do! I mean even goblins horded up with spears are awesome!


EDIT: @ Aldramelech BTW, i did some play testing and math hammer. Hammerers are still freaking awesome. Take a block of 20+ and watch them mow down everything in there path!

Good to know.

Heres one for you;

If you have a unit of Dwarf warriors 10 wide and 4 deep they are stubbon (as long as they dont get flanked or reared). But what if you have an oathstone?

[Lord Azaghul]

The other stone rules state that you don't have any flanks or rear when you drop the stone.
So essentually yes. You would be steadfast, as long as you still had more 'ranks' then you opponent.
Personally I think you've be better off running them 5 wide, but here;s the real kicker for you:
If you drop the Oath Stone, all you have is 'front' which means you get supporting attacks in EVERY direction (obviously a model can not attack twice):D

[Aldramelech]

The other stone rules state that you don't have any flanks or rear when you drop the stone.
So essentually yes. You would be steadfast, as long as you still had more 'ranks' then you opponent.
Personally I think you've be better off running them 5 wide, but here;s the real kicker for you:
If you drop the Oath Stone, all you have is 'front' which means you get supporting attacks in EVERY direction (obviously a model can not attack twice):D

Im sure the FAQ will have something to say about that! lol

[Lord Azaghul]

Im sure the FAQ will have something to say about that! lol

Actually I expect them to leave that one alone. Dwarves have always gotten parry in the 'flanks' once the OS is drops, so logically they would also get supprorting attacks!
Besides thanks to the new shooting rules, being stuck after you drop the oath stone can definately have some draw backs!

[eldargal]

New video about the rules up, featuring Jervis Johnson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce4_rSyTpck
Not as cute as Phil Kelly, but if he has madde 8th what we all hope (which seems almost certain) I'd still hit that.

I like the scene at the end with the volley gun up on the tower. The Empire must have some impressive pulley systems.:P

[Aldramelech]

New video about the rules up, featuring Jervis Johnson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce4_rSyTpck
Not as cute as Phil Kelly, but if he has madde 8th what we all hope (which seems almost certain) I'd still hit that.

I like the scene at the end with the volley gun up on the tower. The Empire must have some impressive pulley systems.:P

There's just no stopping you is there? :eek: :D

[AirHorse]

I like his description of whats been changed, its making me more excited!! Wheres my collectors edition already :S

[eldargal]

Thats nothing to say I'll say about Jes Goodwin if/when he delivers on a fantastically awesome Dark Eldar range.:p Also, you need something to put in your forum belch thing.


There's just no stopping you is there? :eek: :D

[Aldramelech]

Thats nothing to say I'll say about Jes Goodwin if/when he delivers on a fantastically awesome Dark Eldar range.:p Also, you need something to put in your forum belch thing.

At the moment it might just be all about you! :D